13:53:38 RRSAgent has joined #bpwg 13:53:38 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc 13:53:40 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:53:40 Zakim has joined #bpwg 13:53:42 Zakim, this will be BPWG 13:53:42 ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes 13:53:43 Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 13:53:43 Date: 02 September 2008 13:54:03 Chair: Jo 13:54:19 Regrets: Francois, HGerlach 13:56:23 Pontus has joined #bpwg 13:58:36 Pontus has joined #bpwg 14:00:01 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008Sep/0000.html 14:00:25 zakim, code? 14:00:26 the conference code is 2283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo 14:01:01 MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM has now started 14:01:05 + +46.3.17.47.aaaa 14:01:11 +jo 14:01:15 -jo 14:01:17 +jo 14:01:27 zakim, 46.3.17.47.aaaa is me 14:01:40 sorry, Pontus, I do not recognize a party named '46.3.17.47.aaaa' 14:01:48 zakim, +46.3.17.47.aaaa is me 14:01:53 zakim, aaaa is pontus 14:01:56 +Pontus; got it 14:02:02 sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 14:02:06 SeanP has joined #bpwg 14:02:11 +[Vodaphone] 14:02:35 regrets- HGerlach 14:03:01 zakim, Vodaphone is really Vodafone 14:03:01 +Vodafone; got it 14:03:02 rob has joined #bpwg 14:03:13 hgerlach has joined #bpwg 14:03:16 zakim, Vodafone holds HGerlach 14:03:27 +HGerlach; got it 14:03:38 zakim, who is here? 14:03:41 On the phone I see Pontus, jo, Vodafone 14:03:47 Vodafone has HGerlach 14:03:55 On IRC I see hgerlach, rob, SeanP, Pontus, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, matt, trackbot, dom 14:04:03 +rob_finean 14:04:33 +Bryan_Sullivan 14:05:21 +SeanP 14:05:44 francois has joined #bpwg 14:05:53 +1 14:06:57 scribe: rob 14:07:19 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/37584/WD-ct-guidelines-20080801/ LC Comment Tracker 14:07:33 Topin: Comments on Last Call of CT Guidelines 14:07:52 s/Topin/Topic/ 14:08:25 Jo: Starting at LC-2043 14:08:35 Topi:c LC-2043 14:08:53 s/Topi:c/Topic:/ 14:12:20 Present- Matt 14:15:27 jo: Mark is editor of HTTP and makes some formal comments including LC-2043 14:16:17 Bryan has joined #bpwg 14:16:23 ... saying decide if this is Guidelines or Protocol - can't be both 14:16:43 s/Mark is/Mark Nottingham is/ 14:17:33 q+ 14:17:36 q+ 14:18:23 SeanP: agrees with Jo's sentiments that most of the document is guidelines 14:18:35 s/Mark Nottingham is/Mark Nottingham also/ 14:18:59 s/some formal comments including/a comment similar to/ 14:19:00 ... we're echoing common practise rather than specifying a protocol 14:20:16 Bryan: but mentioning common practise is kind of recommending it as a protocol 14:20:53 jo: I could take on submitting this to other groups to become a protocol? 14:20:55 ACTION: Jo to get back on LC-2043 and simialr pointing out what we are trying to achieve and asking for clarification 14:20:55 Created ACTION-828 - Get back on LC-2043 and simialr pointing out what we are trying to achieve and asking for clarification [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-09-09]. 14:21:42 s/I could take on submitting this to other groups to become a protocol?/I could take this back to the comments list .../ 14:23:04 ... but I think guidelines are as far as we want to go with this document - definitely not a protocol definition 14:25:06 Topic: LC-2025 14:25:24 hgerlach: we call the document guidelines but as LC-2025 says, there is little guidance for Eduardo 14:26:03 ACTION: HGerlach to detail his thoughts arising from discussion of LC-2025 14:26:03 Created ACTION-829 - Detail his thoughts arising from discussion of LC-2025 [on Heiko Gerlach - due 2008-09-09]. 14:27:23 jo: point of the document is not to explain transcoding but to provide a framework so the parties can understand and control what happens 14:27:36 q+ 14:27:42 will we agree the responses before sending it out? 14:27:52 q- 14:27:54 ack sean 14:28:24 s/explain transcoding/prevent egregious behaviour/ 14:28:25 q+ 14:28:32 ack b 14:28:36 Bryan: this is a summary comment, there are more comments later that define specifics 14:28:38 ack sean 14:28:56 SeanP: would it be easier to hit the specific comments 1st? 14:29:38 jo: maybe, but good to see them in tracker's order in overview 14:30:06 ... skippong LC-2075 14:30:07 http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/37584/WD-ct-guidelines-20080801/ 14:30:23 Topic: LC-2065 14:30:39 s/pong/ping/ 14:30:50 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/37584/WD-ct-guidelines-20080801/2065 LC-2065 14:31:24 Jo: I did respond to Dennis on this informally 14:32:02 Bryan: I'd like to review Jo's response and follow up 14:32:40 ACTION: Bryan to review correspondence with Dennis cf LC-2065 and to draft a) proposed changes to the document and b) a proposed response to Dennis 14:32:40 Created ACTION-830 - Review correspondence with Dennis cf LC-2065 and to draft a) proposed changes to the document and b) a proposed response to Dennis [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2008-09-09]. 14:33:12 ... I'll follow up on the public list 14:33:28 Topic: LC-2018 14:33:31 Topic: LC-2018 14:33:38 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/37584/WD-ct-guidelines-20080801/2018 LC-2018 14:34:20 jo: This is about the document's title 14:34:45 q+ 14:34:56 ack Sean 14:35:20 SeanP: there is a good point here, but I still don't know what to change the title to! 14:35:29 q+ 14:35:38 ack bryan 14:36:02 Bryan: we'd call this "Content Adaptation" rather than "Content Transformation" 14:36:49 ... but capturing the fact that you are adapting for a limited browser might be useful in the title 14:37:39 jo: but "Content Adaptation" is commonly used as an origin-server technology already 14:37:40 Content Transformation by Proxies? 14:37:43 q+ 14:37:45 HTTP proxies? 14:38:10 hgerlach: we don't change the content, we change the layout 14:38:10 ack Hg 14:38:45 ... not convinced we need to change the title 14:39:17 +1 14:39:52 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Change the title of the document to: Content Transformation by HTTP Proxies: Guidelines 14:40:09 how about transducer instead??? 14:40:40 How about "Guidelines for Content Transformation by HTTP Proxies? 14:41:03 jo: given importance of "no-transform", transformation must be the right word 14:42:12 Bryan: is the word Guidelines essential? 14:42:19 jo: maybe not 14:43:23 How about orientation guide? 14:43:54 SeanP: move Guidelines to a subtitle like "Guidelines for content providers, network operators and ..." 14:43:57 ACTION: SeanP to continue discussion of the title on the list 14:43:57 Sorry, couldn't find user - SeanP 14:44:13 ACTION: Patterson to continue discussion of the title on the list 14:44:13 Created ACTION-831 - Continue discussion of the title on the list [on Sean Patterson - due 2008-09-09]. 14:44:39 Topic: LC-2066 14:44:49 Another suggestion: Content Transformation by HTTP Proxies: Guidelines for CT Operators and Content Providers 14:45:17 (assigned to Jo) 14:45:19 jo: I'll respond to this 14:46:02 Topic: LC-2050 14:46:56 jo: we do distinguish between these but don't make much use of the definitions 14:47:13 q+ 14:47:18 ... and may be difficult to define it formally 14:47:49 ack seanp 14:48:24 SeanP: possibility we could remove them? It's tricky to define formally 14:48:52 jo: would anybody like to see what the impact of removing the definitions is? 14:49:00 SeanP: yes, I'll do that 14:49:24 ACTION: Patterson to look at what the impact on the document would be if we removed the definitions referred to in LC-2050 14:49:24 Created ACTION-832 - Look at what the impact on the document would be if we removed the definitions referred to in LC-2050 [on Sean Patterson - due 2008-09-09]. 14:50:31 Topic: LC-2003 14:50:54 q+ 14:52:09 Bryan: in considering language around "user-control" I'll wait until Jo responds to LC-2003 before elaborating on this 14:52:29 ACTION: Jo to propose text against LC-2003 referring to the TF's earlier discussions about not referring to a Proxy's internal operation 14:52:29 Created ACTION-833 - Propose text against LC-2003 referring to the TF's earlier discussions about not referring to a Proxy's internal operation [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-09-09]. 14:53:05 hgerlach has joined #bpwg 14:54:23 Topic: LC-2034 14:54:36 what is left???? 14:54:44 jo: does anyone have particular views? 14:55:32 ... what's left are OPTIONS and random extensions like WebDAV methods 14:55:41 q+ 14:55:56 ack bryan 14:56:33 OPTIONS, CONNECT, TRACE, DELETE 14:57:12 rob: we don't do anything to other methods 14:57:24 ACTION: Rob to draft a response to LC-2034 noting that the scope of CT as we mean it is limited to those methods 14:57:24 Sorry, couldn't find user - Rob 14:57:38 ACTION: Finean to draft a response to LC-2034 noting that the scope of CT as we mean it is limited to those methods 14:57:39 Created ACTION-834 - Draft a response to LC-2034 noting that the scope of CT as we mean it is limited to those methods [on Robert Finean - due 2008-09-09]. 14:58:55 Topic: AOB 14:59:10 jo: I'll chat with Francois when he's back about dividing the comments up - because we've made good progress today but finishing will take a long time at this rate 14:59:25 OK, bye 14:59:29 -jo 14:59:30 -Pontus 14:59:32 -Bryan_Sullivan 14:59:34 -Vodafone 14:59:37 -SeanP 14:59:42 -rob_finean 14:59:43 MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM has ended 14:59:45 Attendees were jo, Pontus, HGerlach, rob_finean, Bryan_Sullivan, SeanP 14:59:58 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:59:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-minutes.html jo 15:08:07 s/also editor of HTTP and // 15:08:17 rssagent, draft minutes 15:08:46 zakim, bye 15:08:46 Zakim has left #bpwg 15:08:58 rssagent, help 15:11:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:11:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-minutes.html matt 15:13:09 rrsagent, bye 15:13:09 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-actions.rdf : 15:13:09 ACTION: Jo to get back on LC-2043 and simialr pointing out what we are trying to achieve and asking for clarification [1] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-20-55 15:13:09 ACTION: HGerlach to detail his thoughts arising from discussion of LC-2025 [2] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-26-03 15:13:09 ACTION: Bryan to review correspondence with Dennis cf LC-2065 and to draft a) proposed changes to the document and b) a proposed response to Dennis [3] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-32-40 15:13:09 ACTION: SeanP to continue discussion of the title on the list [4] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-43-57 15:13:09 ACTION: Patterson to continue discussion of the title on the list [5] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-44-13 15:13:09 ACTION: Patterson to look at what the impact on the document would be if we removed the definitions referred to in LC-2050 [6] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-49-24 15:13:09 ACTION: Jo to propose text against LC-2003 referring to the TF's earlier discussions about not referring to a Proxy's internal operation [7] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-52-29 15:13:09 ACTION: Rob to draft a response to LC-2034 noting that the scope of CT as we mean it is limited to those methods [8] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-57-24 15:13:09 ACTION: Finean to draft a response to LC-2034 noting that the scope of CT as we mean it is limited to those methods [9] 15:13:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-bpwg-irc#T14-57-38