17:55:01 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:55:01 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc 17:55:12 rrsagent, set logs public 17:55:31 zakim, this will be wai_u 17:55:31 ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 17:57:38 title: UAWG conference call 17:57:39 ok, but the one thing holding it up as far as process is concerned is the lack of the answer to the question: "how to signify that a keybinding has changed when the character which indicated the keybinding is no longer valid" and are looking everywhere for assistance in solving that problem, which is something we've addressed in the past 17:59:21 are you saying, the users keyboard does not have the author supplied key, so the UA makes a substitution, and how to communicate that to the user 17:59:54 that as well as the scenario where a user has rebound the key, but would like reassurance and a reminder of the keybinding through some sort of indicator 18:00:34 yes that is an issue. It will come up when we discuss 4.1.10 18:00:41 great! 18:01:28 WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started 18:01:35 +Jeanne 18:01:59 +allanj 18:02:23 judy has joined #ua 18:02:31 zakim, code? 18:02:31 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), judy 18:03:01 +[Microsoft] 18:03:25 +Gregory_Rosmaita 18:03:39 Jan has joined #ua 18:03:41 +Judy 18:03:52 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0120.html 18:04:12 zakim, [Microsoft] is Kelly_Ford 18:04:12 +Kelly_Ford; got it 18:04:51 zakim, who is here? 18:04:51 On the phone I see Jeanne, allanj, Kelly_Ford, Gregory_Rosmaita, Judy 18:04:52 On IRC I see Jan, judy, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, oedipus, trackbot 18:06:29 KFord has joined #ua 18:06:47 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0120.html 18:06:54 jeanne has joined #ua 18:07:14 TOPIC: Administrivia 18:07:20 JA: what is trackbot 18:08:11 JS: result of an action item from several weeks ago - asked to set up tracking system for UAWG - done tuesday - trackbot looks for keywords, such as "ACTION: " and then assigns action to the person and a due date attached, with email to list 18:08:31 JS: will pick up issues in subject lines on list which will be added to the issue or action item 18:09:07 instructions for trackbot http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc 18:09:34 JS: more tightly integrated with mailing list agendas and IRC 18:09:49 GJR: each person should be able to bookmark a "My Tracker" link 18:10:02 regrets: MarkH 18:10:12 The main page for Tracker is http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/ 18:10:16 JA: haven't heard from alanC - 18:10:22 zakim, who is here? 18:10:22 On the phone I see Jeanne, allanj, Kelly_Ford, Gregory_Rosmaita, Judy 18:10:23 On IRC I see jeanne, KFord, Jan, judy, RRSAgent, Zakim, AllanJ, oedipus, trackbot 18:10:40 JA: agenda - finish GL 4.1 18:10:48 JB: discussion last week? 18:10:55 JA: great success 18:11:07 JA: leftovers are action items that had to be re-branched 18:11:34 JA: 4 action items to deal with - hopefully resolve last 4 things had issue with last week, and then 4.1 issues and 3 more SCs 18:12:01 JB: circulation for feedback to browser devs who haven't shown up as regularly 18:12:08 JA: send to them individually? 18:12:26 JB: relook into it today - may be better to get draft published first and then have people review that 18:12:45 JS: Kelly had action to ping Microsoft employees, and he reported back on that on-list 18:13:05 JB: need to ensure getting perspective of developers 18:13:43 TOPIC: JA's Action Item to update 4.1.9 18:13:43 +??P15 18:14:24 JA: got a bit confused - tried to update and rewrite - update is 4.1.9 re-writen and put into 4.1.2 so should be tabled and all comments ported to 4.1.10 18:14:32 zakim, ??P15 is really Jan 18:14:32 +Jan; got it 18:15:06 JA: 4.1.9 - precedence of keyboard processing discussed last week; haven't decided anything about user configuration and persistence that belong to 4.1.10 18:15:27 JA: reviewed lots of discussion and minutes and discovered that 4.1.9 had been rewritten and included in 4.1.2 18:15:35 JB: so unintended redundancy 18:15:43 JA: caught and fused last week 18:15:52 JB: today examine in purer form 18:16:08 JA: voted and approved 4.1.2 last week - remove 4.1.9 18:16:13 JB: objections? 18:16:14 KF: no 18:16:17 JA: no 18:16:18 GJR: no 18:16:25 JB: JA, you are sure is covered? 18:16:28 JA: yes 18:16:32 JB: remove it then 18:16:47 RESOLVED: Remove redundant 4.1.9 18:17:21 proposed ACTION: Jeanne - remove redundant 4.1.9 18:17:29 rrsagent, make minutes 18:17:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html oedipus 18:17:38 JA: JR to review 4.5 18:17:41 ACTION: JS will update the 4.1 Guidelines to remove 4.1.9 18:17:41 Created ACTION-1 - Will update the 4.1 Guidelines to remove 4.1.9 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-09-04]. 18:17:42 JR: 4.1.5 18:17:50 TOPIC: JR Review of 4.1.5 18:18:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0125.html 18:18:14 JR: sent post to list; concern last week was that was too difficult to read; tried to simplify - 18:18:29 JR: quotes from post cited directly above 18:18:43 JR: concern too visually oriented so used "display" 18:19:05 JR: not thrilled with mashing together chrome/UI keyboard commands with others 18:19:29 JR: bothers me because standard in windows to display keyboard commands for UI, but not standard to display keyboard commands in content 18:19:53 rrsagent, make minutes 18:19:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html oedipus 18:20:05 JA: 2 that said same thing - 1 for content, 1 for UI - merged them 18:20:15 JA: comments? 18:20:24 JB: what would liked def of recognized say? 18:20:53 JR: differentiate HTML controls with control done in AJAX that grabs keyboard shortcuts and UA doesn't know it is doing that 18:20:58 JB: plain english version? 18:21:19 JA: use "recognize" in many checkpoints - issue: what UA knows about and what UA doesn't know about; 18:21:33 JA: in UAAG 1.0 whole set of events that UA doesn't know about 18:21:49 JR: "recognized" is term in UAAG1 - didn't uniformly apply term where needed to be applied 18:22:20 q? 18:22:49 JA: 2 issues: JR did his tersification - have that to decide; JR also raised concern over conflation of issues (UI and content in same gl) 18:23:33 JB: looking through what was dropped - "close proximity" "presentation" - "display with associated controls" a VERY good improvement - more understandable 18:23:48 JB: no problem tying together aviable UI and content controls - willing to await feedback 18:24:39 q+ 18:24:46 JB: concern: easily discoverable with AT is ok, but able to be activated with single keystroke might be that one has to jump through 3 hoops to do that - what is history of dropping able to be activated with single keystroke? too extreme for developers? 18:25:06 JB: happy that abandoning note verbiage - seems gratuitous and over-proscriptive 18:25:26 JB: able to be activated with single keystroke - nothing about "readily activatable" in this 18:26:06 JR: dropped "single keystroke" because overly proscriptive - if UA has setting ok, but not always the case - let UA set options the way they set options 18:26:14 JB: having problem parsing JR's comment 18:26:42 JR: throughout doc say "users have option for x" - can mean go into mode or go into Tools > Options > Accessibility and turn a11y options on 18:26:52 JB: understand JR's point now 18:26:56 JA: kelly? 18:27:05 KF: listening mode right now 18:27:12 q- 18:27:16 JB: no other issues with provisions 18:27:46 JS: alright with that - how does play out for speech input user? a bit of concern, but think would be fine 18:28:33 JA: straw poll to see if ok with JR's wording - "user has the option to have direct keyboard command displayed..." 18:28:42 4.1.5 User has the option to have any *recognized* direct keyboard 18:28:43 commands displayed with their associated controls. 18:28:46 JB: tersification and simplification desireable 18:28:57 JS: like it 18:29:02 +1 18:29:04 JB: is understandable 18:29:10 JA: nicely done, jan 18:29:14 =1 18:29:15 good stuff. 18:29:15 KF: good 18:29:18 GJR: plus 1 18:29:38 JA: send to access board - key thing stuck on last year 18:29:51 RESOLVED: accept JR's verbiage for 4.1.5 18:30:03 TOPIC: Review of 4.1 and 4.7u 18:30:09 s/4.7u/4.7 18:30:17 ACTION: JS Update 4.1 to include the wording above for 4.1.5 18:30:17 Created ACTION-2 - Update 4.1 to include the wording above for 4.1.5 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-09-04]. 18:30:22 KF: how to consolidate and whether to consolidate 18:30:45 KF: think we need them both in the end, because they serve 2 separate purposes 18:31:01 KF: 4.1 says "do everything from keyboard" but doesn't say needs to be discoverable from kbd 18:31:14 KF: 4.7 is about discoverability 18:31:32 KF: 4.1.1 could end up with UA with hotkeys but no discoverability method 18:31:40 JA: interesting... 18:31:53 KF: did a deep data dive - may be changing former opinioin 18:32:24 JA: had action item in july to review 4.1.1, 4.1.6 and 4.1.7 -- at time, decided that 4.1.7 handled by 4.1.1 so should be removed 18:32:43 JR: talked about 4.1.7 last week - important notification as kelly said 18:32:53 JA: question is: are we fine in leaving it? 18:32:55 KF: yes 18:32:56 JR: yes 18:33:03 JA: plus 1 18:33:04 +1 18:33:07 GJR: plus 1 18:33:13 JA: good distinction 18:33:33 JB: need to see everything in context to declare opinion 18:33:35 status document http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/status41.htm 18:33:53 JB: today's stuff not available in context, but only as individual bits to consider 18:34:23 JA: status document from last week - what i've been able to pull out of all agenda and action items, etc. - here was wording, here is status, for 4.1 18:34:53 JA: come full circle - remove 4.1.7 because included, but issues raised last week, KF reviewed and presented arguments as to why to include 18:35:25 JS: rather than keep with different title - would clarify 2 are related if state 4.1.1 keyboard operation and 4.1.7 keyboard operations enhanced 18:35:46 JR: only problem is when WCAG uses "enhanced" spread over A and double-A, but like the idea - 18:35:55 JS: keyboard operation navigation? 18:36:02 KF: keyboard navigation, full stop 18:36:19 JA: operation in 4.1.1, in 4.1.7 granular - specifically keyboard navigation 18:36:27 GJR: plus 1 18:36:47 +1 18:36:52 +1 18:36:53 JA: do we change name from UI interface navigation to keyboard navigation and leave text as is? 18:36:57 GJR: plus 1 18:37:17 4.1.7 Keyboard Navigation: The user can use the keyboard to traverse all of the controls forwards and backwards, including controls in floating toolbars, panels, and user agent extensions using the navigation conventions of the platform (e.g., via "tab", "shift-tab", etc. ") 18:38:04 JB: review what we have: 4.1 - ensure full keyboard access; 4.1.1 is keyboard operation; 4.1.2 lacks a title; 4.1.3 no keyboard trap; 4.1.4 separate presentation, 4.1.5. UA keyboard commands; 4.1.x. content-derived keyboard commands; 4.1.6 conventions, 4.1.7 navigation 18:38:24 JB: problem: no consistency in structure/syntax for these items - most noun phrases, some verbs 18:38:49 JB: no real objections at this point, but will need to align titling in document when more stability 18:38:49 4.1.7 Keyboard Navigation: The user can use the keyboard to traverse all of the controls forwards and backwards, including controls in floating toolbars, panels, and user agent extensions using the navigation conventions of the platform (e.g., via "tab", "shift-tab", etc. ") 18:39:04 JB: no objections to keyboard navigation for 4.1.7 18:39:19 JR: going to get new version of this reflecting last week's and this week's decisions 18:39:22 JA: will do that 18:39:27 JS: i will update them all 18:39:37 JA: THANK YOU! 18:39:51 TOPIC: 4.1.8 18:40:04 ACTION: JS Updates 4.1 Guideline to include new wording for 4.1.7 18:40:04 Created ACTION-3 - Updates 4.1 Guideline to include new wording for 4.1.7 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-09-04]. 18:40:07 4.1.8 Direct keyboard commands in the form of single key access with or without modifiers are provided to use primary user agent functionality for the following classes of operations where the user agent offers such functionality and the operating environment supports appropriate keybord access: 18:40:07 (a) navigation related functions (e.g., back/forward within the user navigation history for the current browsing session, enter a URI for a new resource, stop/refresh the loading of a resource, etc.) (b) display-related functions (e.g., increase/decrease text size, volume, etc.) (c) content related functions (move focus to next/previous enabled element in document order, activate the content item with focus, scroll the viewed content by a measure appropriate to the 18:40:07 JS: resolved to update list for 4.1.7 18:40:25 link for 4.1.8 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0122.html 18:40:26 RESOLVED: update 4.1.7 18:40:40 KF: 4.1.8 listed very specific features 18:40:49 KF: new version broke down, but didn't list features 18:41:14 KF: revised further to break into different classes of features some of which are already there, some of which i added 18:41:35 KF: there are a few different classes of things one can do with UA - attempt to reflect that; would include all definitions 18:41:45 KF: is this finished, or still half-baked? 18:42:06 JR: getting pretty detailed - but not sure catching everything 18:42:25 JR: if media player, play stop and fast forward should be covered, but am not sure if falls under navigation 18:42:32 JA: still cogitating 18:42:40 GJR: trying to cogitate 18:42:58 KF: if you have something important to do in UA, ensure easy to do in UA with one keystrok 18:43:11 KF: quantifying what is important in UA is key factor, then 18:43:32 JS: like what KF has done; grouped well but left open for different types of UAs is big improvement over list 18:44:04 KF: question for UA is: control of display of information - am i missing other interactive classes? 18:45:14 JR: wondering if trying to be specific on intervention classes is too inclusive may miss one, but if we keep high-level, the essence is single key access which is making things quick to get to; if offer mouse way of moving, but not keyboard way, have to explain why not 18:45:37 KF: impossible - mouse is freeform - can't have single key access to all mouse functionalities 18:45:52 KF: better not be more than 3 or 4 keystrokes at worse - what are highest profile things one can do 18:46:30 JB: back up a bit - enumeration of classes important, but first need to remove some unecessary text in draft provision itself - hard to evaluate base requirement 18:46:47 JB: want to read through the wording suggested by KF word by word an suggest changes 18:46:49 KF: sure 18:46:58 JB: starting at top of provision 18:47:28 JB: 4.1.8 - needs a short handle - direct keyboard commands probably works, but possible that direct keyboard commands may not be as self-evident as we hope 18:47:45 JB: single key access: requires only a single keystroke? 18:47:52 KF: or one modifier key 18:48:11 JB: wanted to toss with or without modifiers, but without it, single key access will be misunderstood 18:48:23 JB: agree can't drop with or without modifiers 18:48:26 GJR: agree 18:48:29 JA: agree 18:48:47 q+ we used to say "key-plus-modifier-key (or single-key)" 18:48:49 JB: guess is that phrase "with or without modifiers" could be phrases more clearly 18:49:48 JB: streamline intro to classes -- qualified several ways, but not at level of parsimonious elegance that JR achieved in 4.1.5 -- conceptually has right stuff, but needs wordsmithing 18:50:09 q? 18:50:13 q+ 18:50:32 JB: still a stage away from geting to most essential comments as parsimoniously as possible 18:50:45 q+ 18:50:50 JB: take what KF has distilled down to another level, then return to clases of operation 18:51:10 JR: we used to say "key-plus-modifier-key (or single-key)" 18:51:27 JB: that's a mouthful and mindful - might do better 18:51:40 ack Jan 18:51:43 ack KFord 18:52:20 KF: build up - start at zero and build up definition; zero starting point is "important UA functions have to be achievable in one keystroke" -- that is core 18:52:35 JB: important keyboard functions need to be done with one keystroke 18:52:55 JB: important command functions or keyboard functions? 18:52:59 KF: command functions 18:53:15 JB: essence is: "important command functions" - could be handle 18:53:41 Important keyboard commands. Primary user agent operations are operable with a single keystroke. 18:53:55 JB: are modifiers always a key? 18:53:59 KF: believe so 18:54:13 JB: actually, sticky keys is a mode, so modifier isn't right 18:54:22 JA: using stickyKeys to do modifier combo 18:54:32 JB: set mode and then that mode is default mode for duration 18:55:02 JB: "important command functions should be available via a single keystroke with or without a modifier" 18:55:13 KF: could break modifier in own section 18:55:26 JB: important command functions should be available via single keystroke 18:55:31 JB: put rest in not 18:55:34 s/not/note 18:55:57 JB: what lost: modifiers, primary user agent functionality for following class of operations.... 18:56:27 JB: where the user agent provides such functionality - second qualifier is "can do if we can" 18:56:43 JA: nod toward devices with limited keypads (mobile numbers only) 18:56:49 JB: might be better addressed as note 18:57:13 JB: just have one long note and covers 3 things at least but with a simple elegant requirement statement 18:57:42 q+ 18:57:42 Important Command Functions: Important Command Functions are available in a single keystroke 18:57:46 JR: different classes could go into techique - which are your important commands; what are intended classes 18:57:49 JA: would be good 18:57:56 JB: look at classes 1 by 1 18:58:07 JR: dropping operating environment? 18:58:38 JB: put in note with an example at least instead of general statement - "for instance, the operating environment of a mobile phone may not allow...." 18:58:45 JR: definition of keystroke 18:58:56 GJR: check latest access module draft for language 18:59:21 JB: classes of operations - bear in mind may end up in techniques or note 18:59:45 JB: first is a substantive class - are all examples necessary? 18:59:52 JR: great explanation for techniques 19:00:02 JB: "b) display related functions" 19:00:26 JB: could be that the note would contain the generic / abstract categories, and examples coupled with techniques 19:00:33 JB: c) content related functions 19:00:43 JB: d) information related functions 19:00:47 JB: interesting distinction 19:01:38 KF: rationale: usually read content, but increasingly UAs have facilities for managing info - favorites, rrs subscriptions, FF "awesome bar" - similar feature in IE8; UAs starting to add a lot of information management controls 19:01:48 JB: call them information management features? 19:02:27 JB: what is diff between content and information - nothing from terms juxtaposed unless for examples following - if use "information management functions" 19:02:28 +1 19:02:45 RESOLVED: change point d0 to "information management functions" 19:02:51 q+ 19:03:00 JB: state "this is a non-exhaustive list of functions" 19:03:09 ack KFord 19:03:12 ack Jan 19:03:22 JR: what if grab headers and use them in an e.g. clause 19:03:55 JR: important command functions (e.g. content related, information management functions, etc.) then push rest to techniques 19:04:03 JB: built-into provision, not note? 19:04:06 JR: yes 19:04:33 JB: "imporant command functions (e.g. [...])" - what do people think? 19:04:52 GJR: like e.g. clause solution advanced by jan 19:04:57 JS: how would we test it? 19:05:17 JS: as long as leaving it up to the developer to say what is important, is very successful,but need to keep that in mind 19:05:21 Important Command Functions: Important Command Functions (e.g. navigation related functions, display-related functions, content related functions, information management related functions) are available in a single keystroke 19:05:39 JR: maybe not all 4 in the e.g. clause 19:05:50 JB: friendly ammendment - 19:06:36 chair: Jim 19:06:44 Important Command Functions: Important Command Functions (e.g. related to navigation, display, content, and information management) are available in a single keystroke 19:06:48 meeting: User Agent Weekly Teleconference 19:06:59 rrsagent, make minutes 19:06:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html oedipus 19:07:06 Important command functions: Important command functions (e.g. navigation-related, display-related, content-related, information-management) are available in a single keystroke. 19:07:22 JB: wiped out capitalization 19:07:38 JB: status review should be capitalized, but not after that 19:07:57 JB: JA's much more graceful 19:08:18 JA: then can comma etc. - to achieve balance and cover a host of evils 19:08:31 Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g. related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.) are available in a single keystroke. 19:08:49 +1 19:08:52 +1 19:08:54 I like. 19:08:55 GJR: plus 1 19:09:00 +1 19:09:18 +1 19:10:23 ACTION: JS to update 4.1 Guidelines to add wording for 4.1.9 Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g. related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.) are available in a single keystroke. 19:10:23 Created ACTION-4 - Update 4.1 Guidelines to add wording for 4.1.9 Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g. related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.) are available in a single keystroke. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2008-09-04]. 19:10:38 Topic: review 4.1.10 19:11:15 proposed RESOLUTION: definition of Important Command Functions: Important command functions are available in a single keystroke; e.g., related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc. 19:11:59 new - 4.1.10 User Override of Keyboard Commands: The user can override any keyboard shortcut binding that is part of the user agent default input configuration except for conventional bindings for the operating environment (e.g., for access to help). The keyboard combinations offered for rebinding include single key and key plus modifier keys if these are available in the operating environment. 19:12:18 proposed RESOLUTION for 4.1.9: definition of "Important Command Functions" Important Command Functions: Important command functions are available in a single keystroke; e.g., related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc. 19:12:35 JA: split 4.1.10 into 2 to avoid confusion 19:12:55 JA: first part is easy (overriding user interface) - opera does well 19:13:09 JA: several issues arise with overriding content function like access key 19:13:40 JA: 2 situations: author uses accented character as accesskey, not available on keyboard, so UA remaps - how does user know? 19:14:03 JA: second: if user rebinds keybindings, how does user get notification of previo;usly made changes 19:14:13 KF: and what if author has changed keys so remapping now moot 19:14:22 JB: essence of what we are trying to say? 19:14:36 JB: don't think essence is user-override but user notification and control 19:14:58 JR: override is part of it 19:15:08 JB: yes, part of it, but what is abosulte reduction? 19:15:19 JR: person who can only use part of keyboard 19:15:38 GJR: limit to homerow a use case 19:15:52 JB: only part of it - what is available and what was used last 19:16:19 JS: another aspect - screen reader users to remap key so doesn't conflict with AT command frequently invoked with keybinding 19:16:45 GJR: discoverability and notification when there is NOT an AT being used is important 19:16:56 JB: split help or hurt? 19:17:01 JA: helps 19:17:10 JA: 1 is a lot easeir to do than the other 19:17:25 KF: second one is almost undoable - doable, but fraught with complications 19:17:33 JB: how important is it? 19:17:47 JB: user can override any author provided keybinding.... 19:17:55 JB: way to change req so more doable? 19:18:20 JB: if more doable, could be conflated - have it or not, regardless of source 19:18:29 essence 19:18:30 1. user needs to know the current keybinding 19:18:31 KF: why should UA override author 19:18:32 2. user need to remap to avoid conflict, fill personal need 19:18:33 3. recall remap 19:18:35 4. ??what happens when content changes 19:18:39 GJR: author proposes, user disposes 19:18:57 GJR: notes this has been addressed in Access Module 19:19:19 GJR: new wording explicitly states that the key is an abstraction and is only a suggestion of the author 19:19:40 JA: if define accesskey binding that doesn't exist on user's hardware, what to do? 19:19:55 JR: do we really mean users need to be able to do on site by site basis 19:20:16 JR: users can disallow certain keys that pose problems - no accented keys allowed as configuration 19:20:33 s/as configuration/as configuration setting 19:20:53 JB: override is part of issue, but is it muddying issue by advancing solution rather than stating problem 19:21:11 JB: problem is 1) know what is happening and 2) how to exert control over it 19:21:36 GJR: suggest we re-examine latest Access Module draft wording 19:21:53 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/ 19:22:09 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#E_access 19:22:14 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#A_activate 19:22:18 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#A_key 19:22:23 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#A_media 19:22:27 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20080820/#A_order 19:22:48 "This attribute assigns one or more key mappings to an access shortcut. The value of is attribute is one or more single characters from the document character set." 19:23:42 "The key attribute represents an abstraction. The use of the name "key" for this attribute is historical and does not mean that there is any association with a specific "key" on a keyboard, per se. It is up to the user agent to provide a mechanism for mapping the document character set value(s) of the attribute to the input methods available to the user agent. For instance, on some systems a user may have to press an "alt" or "cmd" key in addition to the access 19:23:52 JR: conflicts with what i was stating 19:24:05 s/conflicts/agrees 19:24:21 "A user entering any of the keys defined in an access element moves focus from its current position to the next element in navigation order that has one of the referenced role or id values (see activate for information on how the element may be activated). Note that it is possible to deliver alternate events via [XMLEVENTS]. Note also that the concept of navigation order is a property of the Host Language, and is not defined in this specification." 19:24:33 "User agents MUST provide mechanisms for overriding the author setting with user-specified settings in order to ensure that the act of moving content focus does not cause the user agent to take any further action, as required by UAAG 1.0, Checkpoint 9.5. [UAAG1] The character assigned to a key, and its relationship to a role or id attribute SHOULD be treated as an author suggestion. User agents MAY override any key assignment (e.g., if an assignment interferes w 19:24:47 JS: spoken keyboard commands standardized by an AT 19:25:29 JR: assess keyboard options - which are your most prefered, less preferred, disallowed; in speech recognizition scenario, have the prefered keys used for remapping 19:26:09 JA: crux is: UA says i've remapped all these keys - how does it inform the user, when all it knows is assign keystroke to some function on page, but UA can only say "you only have these keys avaiable to you" 19:26:22 JR: handled in 4.1.5 - "have to display direct keyboard commands" 19:26:24 q_ 19:26:26 q+ 19:27:46 ack me 19:27:52 JR: in 4.1.5 say: 19:27:57 GJR: concern. if a key is remapped. no matter who remapped. how does UA communicate to the user that the key changed, for which the labeling information has not been defined 19:28:28 JR: "user has option..." -- doesn't happen now, but asking UA to put in - floating label or status line message associated with control 19:28:35 KF: have to leave now, sorry 19:28:57 -Kelly_Ford 19:29:40 GJR: very important when considering users who are not using AT, but need notificatiion or are using native accessibility features of UA (zooming) 19:30:42 JA: reached end of our time - can some of us go futher 19:30:56 JB: figure out next steps towards zeroing in 19:31:48 ACTION: JR to propose new wording for 4.1.10 and 4.1.11 19:31:48 Created ACTION-5 - Propose new wording for 4.1.10 and 4.1.11 [on Jan Richards - due 2008-09-04]. 19:32:05 ACTION: Gregory - post Access Module concerns to UA list 19:32:05 Created ACTION-6 - - post Access Module concerns to UA list [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-09-04]. 19:32:17 regrets: Alan 19:32:29 JA: AlanC will be unavailable for a while 19:32:44 regrets+ Simon_Harper 19:32:56 JA: will be out the next 2 weeks 19:33:01 WG: good luck jim 19:33:04 -Jan 19:33:16 zakim, please part 19:33:16 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, allanj, Gregory_Rosmaita, Judy, Kelly_Ford, Jan 19:33:16 Zakim has left #ua 19:33:28 rrsagent, make minutes 19:33:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html oedipus 19:33:42 zakim, who's here? 19:34:42 regrets+ MarkH 19:34:46 rrsagent, make minutes 19:34:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-minutes.html oedipus 19:35:56 rrsagent, please part 19:35:56 I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-actions.rdf : 19:35:56 ACTION: JS will update the 4.1 Guidelines to remove 4.1.9 [1] 19:35:56 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc#T18-17-41 19:35:56 ACTION: JS Update 4.1 to include the wording above for 4.1.5 [2] 19:35:56 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc#T18-30-17 19:35:56 ACTION: JS Updates 4.1 Guideline to include new wording for 4.1.7 [3] 19:35:56 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc#T18-40-04 19:35:56 ACTION: JS to update 4.1 Guidelines to add wording for 4.1.9 Important Command Functions: Important command functions (e.g. related to navigation, display, content, information management, etc.) are available in a single keystroke. [4] 19:35:56 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc#T19-10-23 19:35:56 ACTION: JR to propose new wording for 4.1.10 and 4.1.11 [5] 19:35:56 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc#T19-31-48 19:35:56 ACTION: Gregory - post Access Module concerns to UA list [6] 19:35:56 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/28-ua-irc#T19-32-05