IRC log of rif on 2008-08-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:45:12 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:45:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-rif-irc
14:45:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:45:18 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
14:45:32 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 26-Aug-08
14:45:36 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
14:45:50 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Aug/0127.html
14:46:05 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: 26 Aug RIF Telecon Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Aug/0127.html
14:46:28 [ChrisW]
zakim, clear agenda
14:46:28 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:46:33 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
14:46:38 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
14:46:44 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Action review
14:46:50 [ChrisW]
agenda+ F2F11
14:46:55 [ChrisW]
agenda+ DTB
14:46:58 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Core
14:47:03 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Test Cases
14:47:14 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Publicity
14:47:22 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Pick Scribe for next week
14:47:27 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
14:47:35 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:47:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:47:54 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:03 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
15:00:26 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:00:31 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:00:34 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:00:38 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:00:44 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
15:00:45 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:00:45 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:00:56 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:00:57 [Zakim]
I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:
15:00:57 [Zakim]
1. Admin [from ChrisW]
15:00:59 [Zakim]
2. Liason [from ChrisW]
15:01:02 [Zakim]
3. Action review [from ChrisW]
15:01:02 [Zakim]
4. F2F11 [from ChrisW]
15:01:04 [Zakim]
5. DTB [from ChrisW]
15:01:06 [Zakim]
6. Core [from ChrisW]
15:01:10 [Zakim]
7. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:01:12 [Zakim]
8. Publicity [from ChrisW]
15:01:14 [Zakim]
9. Pick Scribe for next week [from ChrisW]
15:01:16 [Zakim]
10. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:01:37 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:01:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.833.aaaa
15:01:49 [LeoraMorgenstern]
LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:01:50 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
15:01:52 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:01:54 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:02:05 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:12 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisW (16%)
15:02:14 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer; got it
15:02:24 [Zakim]
+??P40
15:02:26 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:02:30 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
15:02:30 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
15:02:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.212.781.aabb
15:02:41 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.212.781.aabb (37%)
15:02:43 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, aabb is me
15:02:44 [Zakim]
+LeoraMorgenstern; got it
15:03:05 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer
15:03:10 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
15:03:20 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisW (58%), MichaelKifer (94%), Sandro (39%)
15:03:26 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
15:03:33 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
15:03:44 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisW (14%), Sandro (43%)
15:03:46 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:03:51 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:03:53 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:03:53 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
15:03:55 [StuartTaylor]
StuartTaylor has joined #rif
15:03:58 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer
15:04:16 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
15:04:32 [yuting]
yuting has joined #rif
15:04:41 [Zakim]
+??P44
15:05:09 [ChrisW]
Scribe: MichaelKifer
15:05:28 [Zakim]
+ +0122427aacc
15:05:39 [yuting]
zakim, aacc is me
15:05:39 [Zakim]
+yuting; got it
15:06:00 [yuting]
zakim, StuartTaylor is with me
15:06:00 [Zakim]
+StuartTaylor; got it
15:06:08 [Zakim]
+??P49
15:06:12 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Aug/att-0107/19082008-rif-minutes.html
15:06:18 [csma]
zakim, ??P40 is me
15:06:18 [Zakim]
I already had ??P40 as DaveReynolds, csma
15:06:26 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
15:06:35 [csma]
zakim, ??P49 is me
15:06:35 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:06:36 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Accept minutes of Aug 19 telecon
15:06:42 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Accept minutes of Aug 19 telecon
15:06:44 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:06:46 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:07:05 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
15:07:14 [yuting]
zakim, mute me
15:07:14 [Zakim]
yuting should now be muted
15:07:19 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:07:19 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:08:05 [JeffP]
JeffP has joined #rif
15:08:41 [Zakim]
+ +49.351.463.4.aadd
15:08:43 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:08:50 [AdrianP]
Zakim, aadd is me
15:08:51 [Zakim]
+AdrianP; got it
15:08:52 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
15:09:00 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Mike_Dean, Sandro, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres, yuting (muted), csma (muted), [NRCC], AdrianP
15:09:05 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:09:06 [Zakim]
yuting has yuting, StuartTaylor
15:09:08 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
15:09:22 [ChrisW]
Scribe: Harold
15:09:27 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:09:32 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:10:03 [Harold]
Sandro: OWL-RL is a profile for OWL coupled with rule engines.
15:10:23 [Harold]
... It may fit BLD or FLD.
15:10:38 [Zakim]
+yuting.a
15:10:39 [DaveReynolds]
I would hope OWL-RL fits within Core
15:10:52 [JeffP]
zakim, yuting.a is me
15:10:52 [Zakim]
+JeffP; got it
15:11:08 [Harold]
Chris: Can we ask them to publish such rule bases in RIF XML syntax.
15:11:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.503.533.aaee
15:11:25 [Harold]
Sandro: Yes. at some point.
15:11:25 [GaryHallmark]
zakim, aaee is me
15:11:25 [Zakim]
+GaryHallmark; got it
15:12:08 [JeffP]
QL
15:12:10 [AxelPolleres]
URL?
15:12:24 [Harold]
Mike: Is it renamed from earlier name?
15:12:51 [Harold]
Sandro: Evocative of RuLes.
15:13:08 [JeffP]
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profiles
15:13:57 [sandro]
yeah, more specifically: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profiles#OWL_2_RL
15:14:06 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:14:07 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Action review" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:14:19 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/InternationalizedStringSpec
15:14:36 [AxelPolleres]
... need to check the implications of Botris Motik's reply to me.
15:14:54 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Response_to_PPS4
15:15:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:15:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Mike_Dean, Sandro, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres, yuting (muted), csma (muted), Harold, AdrianP (muted), JeffP,
15:15:20 [Zakim]
... GaryHallmark
15:15:20 [Zakim]
yuting has yuting, StuartTaylor
15:15:32 [Harold]
Chris: Axel keep looking at comments wrt DTB relationships.
15:15:40 [ChrisW]
action: axel to look at DTB comments in Peters message
15:15:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-568 - Look at DTB comments in Peters message [on Axel Polleres - due 2008-09-02].
15:16:29 [AdrianP]
ok, thanks Sandro
15:17:23 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
15:17:23 [Zakim]
AdrianP should no longer be muted
15:18:32 [AdrianP]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/PRD#Rules_instantiation:_INSTANTIATE
15:18:54 [Harold]
Adrian: Have reformulated, interacting with Christian, the semantics of instantiate function.
15:19:00 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:19:00 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "F2F11" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:19:11 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:19:11 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
15:19:54 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:19:54 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
15:19:55 [Zakim]
4. F2F11 [from ChrisW]
15:19:55 [Zakim]
5. DTB [from ChrisW]
15:19:56 [Zakim]
6. Core [from ChrisW]
15:19:56 [Zakim]
7. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:19:58 [Zakim]
8. Publicity [from ChrisW]
15:19:59 [Zakim]
9. Pick Scribe for next week [from ChrisW]
15:20:01 [Zakim]
10. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:20:21 [Harold]
Harold: Who is in which hotel?
15:20:34 [sandro]
Holiday Inn Midtown at $306/night
15:21:12 [Harold]
Mike: NJ, $169
15:21:21 [sandro]
Holiday Inn Midtown at $306/night 440 WEST 57TH ST 1-212-5818100
15:21:46 [AxelPolleres]
Portland Square Hotel (47th street), sharing with jos... makes it cheaper.
15:22:08 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 7
15:22:08 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:22:49 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:24:06 [Harold]
Leora: Issue of more user friendly PS.
15:24:33 [Harold]
... Adrian has proposed improvements.
15:24:47 [Harold]
... We want to bring up this issue.
15:25:06 [Harold]
Chris: Current PS makes it difficult to talk about RIF.
15:25:17 [csma]
Hear, hear!
15:25:25 [Harold]
Leora: It's plain hard. Extra burdon on users.
15:25:41 [Harold]
... Would be good to have other syntax.
15:25:53 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR#Use_Cases
15:25:55 [Harold]
... Maybe with preprocessor to map to current PS.
15:26:00 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
15:26:00 [Zakim]
AdrianP should no longer be muted
15:26:35 [Harold]
Chris: What us use is a bunch of shortcuts with if...do.. production rules.
15:26:37 [AxelPolleres]
I had some comments on the shortcuts suggested for arithmetics and comparison... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Aug/0124.html not sure whether the mail was clear, but I can explain it.
15:26:41 [AxelPolleres]
q+
15:27:07 [Harold]
Adrian: Currently Prolog symbol for "is implied by".
15:27:17 [AxelPolleres]
What about triple syntax a la N3?
15:27:30 [Harold]
Chris: Also "->" is not a good symbol for slots.
15:28:04 [Harold]
Axel: Some examples use arithm shortcuts.
15:28:18 [GaryHallmark]
what about colon instead of ->, e.g. ?o[k1:v1 k2:v2]
15:28:26 [AdrianP]
you mean, e.g. ">" "<" "!=" "=" "<=" ">=" as in programming languages
15:28:36 [AdrianP]
instead of e.g. External(pred:numeric-less-than(1 2))
15:29:31 [Harold]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:29:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Mike_Dean, Sandro, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres, yuting (muted), csma (muted), Harold, AdrianP, JeffP, GaryHallmark
15:29:34 [Zakim]
yuting has yuting, StuartTaylor
15:29:46 [csma]
Why not =, since we currently have only an equality accessor (for slots)?
15:30:01 [csma]
as in object[property=value]?
15:30:11 [ChrisW]
q?
15:30:14 [ChrisW]
ack ax
15:30:58 [Harold]
Adrian: Parser can figure out distinctions via arg types (e.g. two numbers).
15:31:08 [Harold]
Axel: Makes sense.
15:31:44 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
15:31:44 [Harold]
Sandro: I'm highly dubious.
15:31:52 [csma]
q+
15:31:58 [Harold]
... It would be a half-way rule language.
15:32:04 [LeoraMorgenstern]
q+
15:32:07 [Harold]
... Either XML or real rule language.
15:32:26 [Harold]
... Run UC: Only XML
15:32:27 [AdrianP]
the main intention of the abridged syntax is to make it easy to write down and read rules
15:32:36 [AxelPolleres]
in xpath, etc you have '+','-', but type-checking of the operators is supposed to take place before it is chosen which add or subtract function is actually meant.
15:32:50 [Harold]
... Read UC: Use your own favorite syntax
15:33:04 [Harold]
Chris: Requires a tool.
15:33:24 [Harold]
Sandro: Yes. Need bootstrapping.
15:33:26 [csma]
ack csma
15:33:29 [LeoraMorgenstern]
q-
15:33:29 [ChrisW]
ack c
15:33:37 [Harold]
Christian: Two questions.
15:34:04 [AxelPolleres]
... same for comparisons, i.e., any xpath processor should be able to deal with +,-, >, <, etc. for various datatypes.
15:34:14 [Harold]
... 1) What's purpose of non-abridged syntax if we have an abridged one.
15:34:15 [StellaMitchell]
PS is normative, I think
15:34:25 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Christian, the semantics have been defined in terms of the presentation syntax, no?
15:34:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
So it makes sense to keep that.
15:34:51 [LeoraMorgenstern]
But you still want something that's easier to read and write.
15:35:22 [Harold]
... 2) There is a case where you need to translate/produce RIF doc with a specific rule that is not in XML
15:35:36 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:35:36 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
15:35:45 [Harold]
... When you need to produce a rule set.
15:35:53 [DaveReynolds]
Stella - the "mathematical english" is normative, the presentation syntax and it's EBNF is non-normative, the semantics actually refers to the mathematical English - at least that's how I understand it.
15:36:17 [Harold]
Chris: Not transl. test cases now. But entailment test cases.
15:36:35 [Harold]
... Otherwise we would need whole suites of cases for each language.
15:36:41 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:36:41 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:37:25 [Harold]
Axel: Uneasy with +, -, *, / etc. only for numbers.
15:37:43 [Harold]
... Other languages have such symbols also for other datatypes.
15:37:45 [StellaMitchell]
dave, the spec just says "the presenation syntax is normative" (but not the ebnf)
15:37:57 [AdrianP]
such abriviations are quite common in nearly all programming languages
15:37:59 [Harold]
Chris: Issue is if it's better than current PS.
15:38:25 [Harold]
Axel: Agree, but kind of half-way.
15:38:28 [DaveReynolds]
Stella - yes, sorry.
15:38:29 [JeffP]
still not clear why we need another syntax
15:38:48 [Harold]
Chris: Alternative would be to define a new syntax.
15:38:58 [LeoraMorgenstern]
JeffP, it's because the current PS is really hard to read and write.
15:39:17 [LeoraMorgenstern]
and we are afraid it will affect adoption of RIF.
15:39:37 [JeffP]
LeoraMorgenstern, thanks - is PS going to be replaced by the new one?
15:39:40 [Harold]
Axel: Should we use the Abridged Syntax but mark it as not covering more than numerics.
15:39:44 [DaveReynolds]
Leora - in that case it needs a formal definition, the current defn is ambiguous
15:39:51 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:39:54 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Dave, I agree.
15:40:02 [Harold]
Chris: Will need to make status of Abridged Syntax more explict.
15:40:08 [Harold]
Axel: yes.
15:41:00 [Harold]
Leora: Discussed various more cases.
15:41:11 [LeoraMorgenstern]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Category:Test_Case
15:41:12 [Harold]
... Quite comprehensive now.
15:41:32 [AxelPolleres]
We should mention explicit that our abbreviations for comparison operators and arithmetic operators *only* apply to numeric datatypes, *as opposed to* the more generic use of these abbreviations in languages such as XPATH
15:41:44 [AdrianP]
e.g. http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Chaining_strategy_numeric-add-1
15:41:44 [Harold]
... Chaining strategy UC brought in by Axel.
15:42:38 [Harold]
Axel: Dual versions, behaving different in (naive) forward and backward engines.
15:43:10 [Harold]
... Cannot just materialize.
15:43:46 [ChrisW]
q?
15:44:05 [Harold]
Leora: It would help if people make the "discussion" slot more explicit.
15:44:15 [Harold]
... Distinguish various cases.
15:44:23 [Harold]
... Overarching argument.
15:44:44 [Harold]
... Otherwise people can get lost.
15:44:54 [AdrianP]
I would propose to group test cases to test suites which have a context
15:45:05 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
15:45:05 [Zakim]
AdrianP should no longer be muted
15:45:07 [Harold]
Chris: E.g., what Axel just described on the phone should be in the document.
15:45:10 [Harold]
Axel: Fine.
15:45:22 [StellaMitchell]
and maybe we can use seeAlso field to reference related test cases from test cases
15:45:30 [Harold]
Sandro: Description vs. Discussion, with linking.
15:45:47 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
15:45:49 [Harold]
Adrian: Concept of test suite. Once can refer to the other.
15:46:21 [Harold]
Gary: Axel's are also legal PRD, which is good.
15:46:41 [Harold]
Leora: Stella and I translated a number of UCs.
15:46:42 [StellaMitchell]
gary: cases that apply to BLD and PRD could be of dialect CORE
15:46:57 [Harold]
... Dave has a named-arg uniterm ex.
15:47:11 [Harold]
... Next week more.
15:47:26 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:47:26 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
15:47:27 [Zakim]
4. F2F11 [from ChrisW]
15:47:27 [Zakim]
5. DTB [from ChrisW]
15:47:28 [Zakim]
6. Core [from ChrisW]
15:47:28 [Zakim]
7. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:47:29 [Zakim]
8. Publicity [from ChrisW]
15:47:30 [Zakim]
9. Pick Scribe for next week [from ChrisW]
15:47:31 [Zakim]
10. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:47:31 [Harold]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:47:32 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 5
15:47:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres, yuting (muted), csma (muted), Harold, AdrianP, JeffP, GaryHallmark, Mike_Dean
15:47:36 [Zakim]
yuting has yuting, StuartTaylor
15:47:38 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "DTB" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:48:08 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Aug/0074.html
15:48:21 [Harold]
Chris: Let's go over eds note list.
15:48:22 [AdrianP]
Other open issues of Test Cases are e.g. the set of properties which we have define or the translation from the WIKI version into a concrete XML syntax
15:49:29 [Harold]
Chris: All shortcuts should ultimately be in one place.
15:50:22 [Harold]
Axel: Section 2.2 should explain rdf:text shortcut.
15:50:50 [Harold]
... in abridged it would already be it.
15:51:12 [Harold]
Chris: Separate wiki page?
15:51:24 [csma]
+1 for having the shortcuts and abridged syntax all in one place, and that is not DTB
15:51:32 [Harold]
Axel: No problem, but then remove it from all other places.
15:51:48 [AdrianP]
yes, good idea
15:51:58 [AdrianP]
YES
15:52:00 [AdrianP]
yes
15:52:18 [ChrisW]
action: adrian to create page that documents abridged syntax
15:52:18 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - adrian
15:52:18 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. agiurca, apaschke)
15:52:25 [AdrianP]
it will make it easier for programmers
15:52:30 [ChrisW]
action: apaschke to create page that documents abridged syntax
15:52:30 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-569 - Create page that documents abridged syntax [on Adrian Paschke - due 2008-09-02].
15:53:44 [DaveReynolds]
q+
15:53:50 [Harold]
Axel: Predicate that takes rdf:text and language tags, matching eg all "en" tags.
15:54:30 [Harold]
Dave: In SPARQL there is also a lang matcher.
15:54:44 [Harold]
s/ language tags/ language range/
15:55:11 [Harold]
Axel: A bit awkward.
15:55:18 [DaveReynolds]
q-
15:55:26 [Harold]
Chris: Can you extract lang. tag?
15:55:38 [Harold]
Axel: Yes, but not typical use case.
15:56:21 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:56:23 [Harold]
Dave: Fine. Alg the same, just args different.
15:57:02 [Harold]
... Can lang tag be empty xs:string?
15:57:17 [Harold]
Axel: We agreed this should not cause any harm.
15:57:35 [Harold]
Chris: Does this change anything in the def of matching lang tag?
15:57:53 [Harold]
Axel: We could define it for only non-empty lang tags.
15:59:15 [Harold]
Dave: Same for func:lang(...)?
15:59:23 [Harold]
Axel: Dont see a problem.
15:59:59 [Harold]
Dave: Normally no need for testing non-emptiness.
16:00:16 [Harold]
... How does this affact RDF Compatiblity?
16:00:27 [Harold]
Axel: We already have different treatment there.
16:01:11 [Harold]
... treat plain literals same as those type with xs:string.
16:01:27 [Harold]
... which is different from RDF.
16:02:20 [Harold]
Dave: According to D-entailment it is the same.
16:02:41 [Harold]
... But yours not.
16:03:21 [Harold]
Axel: Empty lang tags do not occur in RDF, so it doesnt matter.
16:03:30 [Harold]
Sandro: Syntax error in RDF.
16:03:59 [Harold]
Chris: OK. So in RDF?
16:04:08 [Harold]
Axel: Plain literals.
16:04:46 [Harold]
... So the rdf:text task force is looking into unifying them.
16:05:20 [Harold]
Sandro: No problem because rdf:text does not normally occur in RDF.
16:07:37 [Harold]
Dave/Sandro/Axel: More discussion about datatype system, performance issues, ...
16:07:56 [Harold]
Chris: Record as an issue and move on?
16:08:11 [Harold]
... Dave you are not sure?
16:08:52 [Harold]
Dave: No formal objection, need to think more about it. Feels awkward, perhaps raise an error instead.
16:09:44 [Harold]
Sandro: Regarding impacts: More on OWL than on Jena.
16:10:00 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:10:01 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
16:10:02 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
16:10:10 [ChrisW]
curious
16:10:15 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:10:15 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
16:10:26 [sandro]
s/on Jena/on RIF in Jena/
16:10:30 [Harold]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:10:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, yuting (muted), csma, Harold, AdrianP, JeffP, GaryHallmark, Mike_Dean
16:10:33 [Zakim]
yuting has yuting, StuartTaylor
16:10:33 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:10:56 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:10:56 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
16:11:02 [sandro]
AxelPolleres, how were you dialed in....?
16:11:16 [AxelPolleres]
oops
16:11:26 [AxelPolleres]
redialing
16:11:26 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:11:38 [Harold]
Dave: Consult with my group and come back if there is a concern.
16:11:44 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
16:11:44 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
16:11:44 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:11:45 [Zakim]
4. F2F11 [from ChrisW]
16:11:45 [Zakim]
5. DTB [from ChrisW]
16:11:46 [Zakim]
6. Core [from ChrisW]
16:11:46 [Zakim]
7. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
16:11:47 [Zakim]
8. Publicity [from ChrisW]
16:11:48 [Zakim]
9. Pick Scribe for next week [from ChrisW]
16:11:49 [Zakim]
10. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:11:51 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:11:52 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:11:53 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
16:12:05 [Zakim]
+??P12
16:12:08 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 8
16:12:08 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Publicity" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:12:28 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Publicity
16:12:44 [Harold]
Chris: Much more active PR need be done.
16:12:49 [sandro]
see for contrast http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Publicity
16:13:32 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:13:32 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
16:13:35 [sandro]
old version.... http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Outreach
16:13:51 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:14:15 [Harold]
... Use it to record who sent which msg where.
16:14:37 [Harold]
... What advertising has anyone done?
16:14:38 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
16:14:38 [Zakim]
-LeoraMorgenstern
16:14:39 [DaveReynolds]
Re rif:text and RDF compatibility - there isn't a problem. In the RDF spec there is the statement "The xml:lang="" form indicates the absence of a language identifier" which is therefore compatible with the proposed approach. Sorry to have diverted the discussion.
16:14:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, DaveReynolds, yuting (muted), csma, Harold, AdrianP, JeffP, GaryHallmark, Mike_Dean, ChrisW, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres
16:14:43 [Zakim]
yuting has yuting, StuartTaylor
16:14:50 [AxelPolleres]
I contacted some LP related lists... will add on the wiki
16:15:15 [Harold]
... No one. We need to start doing it NOW.
16:15:38 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
16:15:38 [Zakim]
AdrianP was not muted, AdrianP
16:15:41 [Harold]
... Can we find Press Release?
16:15:47 [sandro]
Press release: http://www.w3.org/News/2008#item132
16:15:54 [Harold]
Adrian: Some LP lists.
16:16:34 [Harold]
Axel: Sent to Enrico, the editor of the LP Newsletter.
16:16:50 [AdrianP]
xsb-development@lists.sourceforge.net
16:17:04 [Harold]
... If we have a Press Release, we can bring it in faster, otherwise 3 months.
16:17:11 [AxelPolleres]
I did the following:
16:17:11 [AxelPolleres]
Dear all,
16:17:11 [AxelPolleres]
I would like to draw your attention to the recent drafts published by
16:17:11 [AxelPolleres]
the World Wide Web Consortium's Rule Interchange Format (RIF) working
16:17:11 [AxelPolleres]
group, towards an interchange format for rules languages:
16:17:12 [AxelPolleres]
The current specification is a collection of 6 documents published at
16:17:14 [AxelPolleres]
the following URLs:
16:17:16 [AxelPolleres]
1. RIF Use Cases and Requirements
16:17:18 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-rif-ucr-20080730/
16:17:20 [AxelPolleres]
2. RIF Basic Logic Dialect
16:17:22 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-rif-bld-20080730/
16:17:24 [AxelPolleres]
3. RIF Framework for Logic Dialects
16:17:26 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-rif-fld-20080730/
16:17:28 [AxelPolleres]
4. RIF RDF and OWL Compatibility
16:17:30 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-rif-rdf-owl-20080730/
16:17:32 [AxelPolleres]
5. RIF Production Rule Dialect
16:17:34 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-rif-prd-20080730/
16:17:35 [Harold]
Sandro: You have to target your audience / your community's mailing list.
16:17:36 [AxelPolleres]
6. RIF Datatypes and Built-Ins 1.0
16:17:37 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:17:37 [Zakim]
csma was not muted, csma
16:17:38 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-rif-dtb-20080730/
16:17:40 [AxelPolleres]
The Working Group seeks public feedback and comments on these drafts on
16:17:42 [AxelPolleres]
the following mailinglist at the following email-address:
16:17:44 [AxelPolleres]
public-rif-comments@w3.org
16:17:46 [AxelPolleres]
with best regards,
16:17:48 [AxelPolleres]
Axel
16:18:28 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:18:28 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:18:29 [Harold]
Christian: Not BCC but FWD.
16:18:55 [Harold]
Chris: We have to stress that BLD is in LC.
16:19:10 [Harold]
Dave: Main semweb lists.
16:19:26 [Harold]
... Jena Dev list, too
16:19:53 [DaveReynolds]
I did publicize inside HP as well.
16:20:43 [Harold]
Gary: Send it to Oracle list and to Jess.
16:20:53 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:20:53 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
16:21:28 [AdrianP]
yes there is RIF demo at the Orlando conference
16:21:46 [AdrianP]
yes, can send it to the RuleML-2008 board
16:22:01 [sandro]
my posting to semantic-web@w3.org http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008Aug/0002.html
16:22:28 [sandro]
I'll send to swi-prolog@iai.uni-bonn.de
16:22:44 [sandro]
semantic-web@w3.org done.
16:22:44 [Harold]
Harold: NRC and RR Board/Conf
16:22:46 [Harold]
Sandro: SWI Prolog list
16:22:54 [JeffP]
Hi
16:23:37 [Harold]
Jeff: Rule-related projects
16:24:03 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:24:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, DaveReynolds, yuting (muted), csma, Harold, AdrianP, JeffP, GaryHallmark, Mike_Dean, ChrisW, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres
16:24:05 [Zakim]
yuting has yuting, StuartTaylor
16:24:14 [Harold]
Mike: semweb list we covered already
16:24:22 [JeffP]
Yuting, do you have any other suggestions?
16:24:49 [Harold]
... DARPA projects
16:25:50 [StellaMitchell]
no, no lists
16:26:00 [StellaMitchell]
:-)
16:26:01 [yuting]
No idea at the moment, beside the MOST project partners
16:26:02 [Harold]
Sandro: Even if we don't get much feedback, we have to present evidence that we mailed it out widely.
16:26:05 [StellaMitchell]
I'll try
16:26:36 [csma]
I plan to send an announcement on the JavaRules list, the Business Rules community list, the various PRR lists, the MISMO BREW list
16:26:45 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:26:45 [Zakim]
csma was not muted, csma
16:27:46 [Harold]
Adrian: XSB and JBoss.
16:28:27 [Harold]
Christian: see above. Yahoo Group.
16:28:31 [sandro]
chris: odm, common-logic,
16:28:40 [Harold]
Chris: ODM, Common Logic.
16:28:56 [AxelPolleres]
sparql-dev?
16:29:11 [Harold]
Christian: Mark could mention it on his blog.
16:29:38 [Harold]
Chris: Other blogs. Sandro, Linked-Data community?
16:29:58 [AxelPolleres]
public-lod@w3.org
16:30:23 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
16:30:23 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
16:30:25 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:30:54 [Harold]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:30:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, DaveReynolds, yuting (muted), csma, Harold, AdrianP (muted), JeffP, GaryHallmark, Mike_Dean, ChrisW, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres
16:30:57 [ChrisW]
scribe for next week: GaryHallmark
16:30:58 [Zakim]
yuting has yuting, StuartTaylor
16:31:12 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
16:31:12 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
16:31:13 [Zakim]
4. F2F11 [from ChrisW]
16:31:13 [Zakim]
5. DTB [from ChrisW]
16:31:15 [Zakim]
6. Core [from ChrisW]
16:31:15 [Zakim]
7. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
16:31:16 [Zakim]
8. Publicity [from ChrisW]
16:31:17 [Zakim]
9. Pick Scribe for next week [from ChrisW]
16:31:18 [Zakim]
10. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:31:21 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 10
16:31:21 [Zakim]
agendum 10. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:31:27 [yuting]
I could also send it to the ai-and-web-in-china, a google group
16:31:32 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
16:31:33 [DaveReynolds]
bye
16:31:34 [Zakim]
-AdrianP
16:31:35 [JeffP]
thanks, bye
16:31:36 [Zakim]
-DaveReynolds
16:31:38 [Zakim]
-GaryHallmark
16:31:42 [AdrianP]
bye
16:31:43 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
16:31:51 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:31:51 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, ChrisW, +1.631.833.aaaa, Sandro, MichaelKifer, +1.212.781.aabb, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres,
16:31:55 [Zakim]
... +0122427aacc, yuting, StuartTaylor, csma, +49.351.463.4.aadd, AdrianP, Harold, JeffP, +1.503.533.aaee, GaryHallmark
16:31:57 [Zakim]
-JeffP
16:32:08 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
16:32:12 [ChrisW]
Regrets: JosDeBruijn Hassan At-Kaci
16:32:17 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:32:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:32:53 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:32:54 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:32:54 [Zakim]
csma was not muted, csma
16:33:16 [Zakim]
-yuting
16:33:23 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:33:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, csma, ChrisW
16:33:59 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:34:01 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:34:02 [Zakim]
-csma
16:34:04 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:34:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were Mike_Dean, ChrisW, +1.631.833.aaaa, Sandro, MichaelKifer, +1.212.781.aabb, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres, +0122427aacc, yuting,
16:34:07 [Zakim]
... StuartTaylor, csma, +49.351.463.4.aadd, AdrianP, Harold, JeffP, +1.503.533.aaee, GaryHallmark
16:55:10 [csma]
csma has left #rif
17:14:23 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
17:32:56 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
18:44:38 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif