Ad Hoc Meeting on HTML5 Issues & Requirements

22 Aug 2008

See also: IRC log


Gregory_Rosmaita, Al, SteveF, Joshue, gez, Laura




<Al> let's get on the phone and ask before doing that

<oedipus> ok

<Al> after

<oedipus> ok

waves at GJR

and everyone else..

<Stevef> zakim ??P5 is stevef

do we have a number yet?

i see it..

<oeddie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5 - needed additions?

Public Work Session?

<oeddie> SF: IRC record public - no problem with that

<oeddie> GJR: plus 1 to public

public record is fine with me..

<oeddie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/AccesskeyRequirements - based on RichS' proposal to pf list

Hi Laura!

<Laura> Hi

<Stevef> laura: you phoning in?

<robburns_> hello everyone. I'm observing on irc, but I don't have an adequate wifi connection for calling in.

<Laura> Steve: Maybe if I can...pretty swamped at the moment...Number?

<oedipus> 1 617 761 6200

<Al> Laura, why not lurk in IRC until we get to something that pushes your buttons?

have we an agenda?

<Laura> Al: sounds good

<Al> scribenick: Joshue

Al: We shall be talking about things on the public record from HTML 5 WG, WAI-XTech and so on.
... We should go by what has already been said.

<oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5

<oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/A11ySnapshot2008-08

Josh: Keep it private for now and we can publish later if we choose.

Al: Agenda items?

Steve: @summary, headers/id, @alt

Josh: DanC suggestion about schedule for issues

<Stevef> 21 Aug

<Stevef> 28 Aug ISSUE-55 head-profile

<Stevef> 4 Sep

<Stevef> 11 Sep ISSUE-32 table-summary

<Stevef> 18 Sep ISSUE-31 missing-alt

<Stevef> 25 Sep

<Stevef> 2 Oct

<Stevef> 9 Oct

<Stevef> 16 Oct

<Stevef> 23 Oct (TP week) ISSUE-41 Decentralized-extensibility (requirement)

<Stevef> 30 Oct

<Stevef> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-issue-tracking/2008Aug/0005.html

<Al> ACTION: agilman share the briefing on 'mid' URLs in archive on the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-237 - Share the briefing on 'mid' URLs in archive on the list [on Alfred S. Gilman - due 2008-08-29].

thanks Steve

<Stevef> re: @alt http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2008JulSep/0074.htm

<Laura> Sorry, Not Found.

Steve: Al can you explain where we are at now?

Al: Head profile came out of yesterdays call.

GJR: There is an interesting comment on a phone call between chairs on handling feedback..

AL: They are trying to get their act together.
... Issue 55 has an issue page in the tracker.
... Is there an issue page on the wiki?

<Laura> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/55

Al: I want to find out what issues they wish to escalate etc.

<scribe> ACTION: Josh to update issue tracker on mails between Gez and James. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Josh

<scribe> ACTION: Joshue to update issue tracker on mails between Gez and James. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Joshue



<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-html-wg-minutes.html

Josh: That is the headers/id

Laura: They wanted to close the action.

Josh: ISSUE-57

[dup] headers

[dup of 20] @headers are not dups

<oedipus> [fyi] @profile in HEAD discussion: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-html-wg-minutes.html#item07

Josh: We can talk about this at the next HTML 5 WG call.
... I will contact Mike Smith and ask him to add it to agenda.

<oedipus> [fyi on @profile in HEAD] ACTION-75 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/75 associated with ISSUE-55 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/55[fyi on @profile in HEAD] ACTION-75 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/75 associated with ISSUE-55 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/55

Al: Wants a recap on where we stand on @summary.


@summary on telecon for the 11th.

Al: I don't know what the details of closing issues is.

<oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Action72Headers

Steve: We don't know how issues are closed.

<oedipus> listed as related is HTML WG ISSUE-20 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/20

<oedipus> HTML5 issue 20 raised by James Graham: "The table headers algorithm currently in the HTML 5 spec does not deal with some common table formats without significant additional markup using @scope. The algorithm to establish cell-header relationships in the absence of specific scoping for header cells can probably be improved in line with suggestions in the following urls:"

<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Sep/0134.html and http://projectcerbera.com/blog/2007/11#day09

Al: There is an alternate path. The chairs are responsible for issues and setting agendas.
... We need to build a relationship with Mike and Chris to get issues to flow.
... Joshue should have ack from Mike or Chris as to how he can create issues etc.

Josh: I treat my Issue tracker privileges with care..

<Laura> Current Issue Definitions: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML#head-b1c997dd7648a369f4639d079c027d819abbecc4

<Laura> RAISED = Issue tracker staff suggests this is worth a WG discussion and potentially a decision.

Josh: We need a consensus on how to use the tracker now I am in the PF.

+1 to GJR

thats very positive GJR

Al: Raising an issue on the tracker should be one above posting to the list.

Josh: Well I consider raising an issue on the tracker to be tantamount to saying to the group - "Here is something important that warrants attention".

Stevef: What more do we need to do to bolster the case for @summary and other issues?

Al: What evidence do we have?
... There is discussion on WAI Liason archive.

Stevef: I have seen that..

Steve: Are you saying if we need to provide details of AT that support it.?

Stevef: That is also on the wiki.

<oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2008Aug/0009.html

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32

Al: We may think something is common knowledge.. is it easy to find this info on the issue page on the HTML tracker.

Josh: This stuff is being done to death on the wiki and in the HTML 5 WG list..

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/66

<oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE

Josh: I have added GJRs suggested link to the wiki

<oedipus> josh, need to add link to wiki to issue page for issue 32 by editing issue 32

Stevef: The main evidence against this is a list of random pages from DMOZ that shows lots of time @summary is not used well.

Al: There are a variety of arguments. We need to ask those it benefitsw.

<oedipus> IMPORTANT "Related Note" on HTML WG ISSUE-32 page - "2008-03-23 19:32:35: Rejected by editor due to unclear problem description. [Ian Hickson]"

<Stevef> example summary uses - http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/summary.html

Josh: asking PWD about it would be a good idea.

Al: Dan has suggested a date for closure..
... Dan is treating this as a live issue. I was not sure how we have documented Oracle and other tools support for @summary.

GJR: There will be a vote to go to publication very soon.
... It will be difficult to get the editor to get these changes in before the next draft.

Stevef: There is no agreed verbiage. The editor will not change anything he doesn't agree with.
... In terms of logical, evidence based and so on.

<Gez> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Aug/0153.html

Stevef: Ian said:I'm only going to make edits to the spec that I can substantiate through

research or logical arguments. Continued appeal to authority in the face

of this will not result in the changes to the spec that you desire.

<oedipus> compare to DanC's contemplative post: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2008Aug/0068.html

Stevef: he is categorical about this.

<Laura> Publication 10 September 2008

<Laura> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-html-wg-minutes.html#item09

Al: Thats not the deal that I have.

Stevef: He was musing whether you would reply.

Al: Thats an escalate point. I am not replying to that.


Stevef: Are we going to have regular meeting?

<oedipus> AG: yes, we will have regular meetings, but don't know what schedule will be

<oedipus> ADJOURN

<Laura> Josh: After the Meeting Adjourns

<Laura> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/Teleconferences#head-fc4dc123aff0ffff346b5f4c49a8316c3f5a450b

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: agilman share the briefing on 'mid' URLs in archive on the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Josh to update issue tracker on mails between Gez and James. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Joshue to update issue tracker on mails between Gez and James. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/08/22 17:08:01 $

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Found ScribeNick: Joshue
Inferring Scribes: Joshue
Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, Al, SteveF, Joshue, gez, Laura
Present: Gregory_Rosmaita Al SteveF Joshue gez Laura
Got date from IRC log name: 22 Aug 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html
People with action items: agilman josh joshue

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