See also: IRC log
<Al> let's get on the phone and ask before doing that
waves at GJR
and everyone else..
<Stevef> zakim ??P5 is stevef
do we have a number yet?
i see it..
<oeddie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5 - needed additions?
<oeddie> SF: IRC record public - no problem with that
<oeddie> GJR: plus 1 to public
public record is fine with me..
<oeddie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/AccesskeyRequirements - based on RichS' proposal to pf list
<Stevef> laura: you phoning in?
<robburns_> hello everyone. I'm observing on irc, but I don't have an adequate wifi connection for calling in.
<Laura> Steve: Maybe if I can...pretty swamped at the moment...Number?
<oedipus> 1 617 761 6200
<Al> Laura, why not lurk in IRC until we get to something that pushes your buttons?
have we an agenda?
<Laura> Al: sounds good
<Al> scribenick: Joshue
Al: We shall be talking about
things on the public record from HTML 5 WG, WAI-XTech and so
... We should go by what has already been said.
Josh: Keep it private for now and we can publish later if we choose.
Al: Agenda items?
Steve: @summary, headers/id, @alt
Josh: DanC suggestion about schedule for issues
<Stevef> 21 Aug
<Stevef> 28 Aug ISSUE-55 head-profile
<Stevef> 4 Sep
<Stevef> 11 Sep ISSUE-32 table-summary
<Stevef> 18 Sep ISSUE-31 missing-alt
<Stevef> 25 Sep
<Stevef> 2 Oct
<Stevef> 9 Oct
<Stevef> 16 Oct
<Stevef> 23 Oct (TP week) ISSUE-41 Decentralized-extensibility (requirement)
<Stevef> 30 Oct
<Al> ACTION: agilman share the briefing on 'mid' URLs in archive on the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-237 - Share the briefing on 'mid' URLs in archive on the list [on Alfred S. Gilman - due 2008-08-29].
<Stevef> re: @alt http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2008JulSep/0074.htm
<Laura> Sorry, Not Found.
Steve: Al can you explain where we are at now?
Al: Head profile came out of yesterdays call.
GJR: There is an interesting comment on a phone call between chairs on handling feedback..
AL: They are trying to get their
... Issue 55 has an issue page in the tracker.
... Is there an issue page on the wiki?
Al: I want to find out what issues they wish to escalate etc.
<scribe> ACTION: Josh to update issue tracker on mails between Gez and James. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Josh
<scribe> ACTION: Joshue to update issue tracker on mails between Gez and James. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Joshue
Josh: That is the headers/id
Laura: They wanted to close the action.
[dup of 20] @headers are not dups
<oedipus> [fyi] @profile in HEAD discussion: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-html-wg-minutes.html#item07
Josh: We can talk about this at
the next HTML 5 WG call.
... I will contact Mike Smith and ask him to add it to agenda.
<oedipus> [fyi on @profile in HEAD] ACTION-75 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/75 associated with ISSUE-55 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/55[fyi on @profile in HEAD] ACTION-75 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/75 associated with ISSUE-55 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/55
Al: Wants a recap on where we stand on @summary.
@summary on telecon for the 11th.
Al: I don't know what the details of closing issues is.
Steve: We don't know how issues are closed.
<oedipus> listed as related is HTML WG ISSUE-20 - http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/20
<oedipus> HTML5 issue 20 raised by James Graham: "The table headers algorithm currently in the HTML 5 spec does not deal with some common table formats without significant additional markup using @scope. The algorithm to establish cell-header relationships in the absence of specific scoping for header cells can probably be improved in line with suggestions in the following urls:"
Al: There is an alternate path.
The chairs are responsible for issues and setting
... We need to build a relationship with Mike and Chris to get issues to flow.
... Joshue should have ack from Mike or Chris as to how he can create issues etc.
Josh: I treat my Issue tracker privileges with care..
<Laura> Current Issue Definitions: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML#head-b1c997dd7648a369f4639d079c027d819abbecc4
<Laura> RAISED = Issue tracker staff suggests this is worth a WG discussion and potentially a decision.
Josh: We need a consensus on how to use the tracker now I am in the PF.
+1 to GJR
thats very positive GJR
Al: Raising an issue on the tracker should be one above posting to the list.
Josh: Well I consider raising an issue on the tracker to be tantamount to saying to the group - "Here is something important that warrants attention".
Stevef: What more do we need to do to bolster the case for @summary and other issues?
Al: What evidence do we
... There is discussion on WAI Liason archive.
Stevef: I have seen that..
Steve: Are you saying if we need to provide details of AT that support it.?
Stevef: That is also on the wiki.
Al: We may think something is common knowledge.. is it easy to find this info on the issue page on the HTML tracker.
Josh: This stuff is being done to death on the wiki and in the HTML 5 WG list..
Josh: I have added GJRs suggested link to the wiki
<oedipus> josh, need to add link to wiki to issue page for issue 32 by editing issue 32
Stevef: The main evidence against this is a list of random pages from DMOZ that shows lots of time @summary is not used well.
Al: There are a variety of arguments. We need to ask those it benefitsw.
<oedipus> IMPORTANT "Related Note" on HTML WG ISSUE-32 page - "2008-03-23 19:32:35: Rejected by editor due to unclear problem description. [Ian Hickson]"
<Stevef> example summary uses - http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/summary.html
Josh: asking PWD about it would be a good idea.
Al: Dan has suggested a date for
... Dan is treating this as a live issue. I was not sure how we have documented Oracle and other tools support for @summary.
GJR: There will be a vote to go
to publication very soon.
... It will be difficult to get the editor to get these changes in before the next draft.
Stevef: There is no agreed
verbiage. The editor will not change anything he doesn't agree
... In terms of logical, evidence based and so on.
Stevef: Ian said:I'm only going to make edits to the spec that I can substantiate through
research or logical arguments. Continued appeal to authority in the face
of this will not result in the changes to the spec that you desire.
<oedipus> compare to DanC's contemplative post: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2008Aug/0068.html
Stevef: he is categorical about this.
<Laura> Publication 10 September 2008
Al: Thats not the deal that I have.
Stevef: He was musing whether you would reply.
Al: Thats an escalate point. I am not replying to that.
Stevef: Are we going to have regular meeting?
<oedipus> AG: yes, we will have regular meetings, but don't know what schedule will be
<Laura> Josh: After the Meeting Adjourns
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: Joshue Inferring Scribes: Joshue Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, Al, SteveF, Joshue, gez, Laura Present: Gregory_Rosmaita Al SteveF Joshue gez Laura Got date from IRC log name: 22 Aug 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/22-pf-minutes.html People with action items: agilman josh joshue WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]