11:00:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wam
11:00:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-wam-irc
11:01:27 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
11:01:53 <ArtB> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
11:01:54 <Zakim> +??P2
11:01:58 <claudio> claudio has joined #wam
11:02:01 <marcos> zakim, ??p2 is me
11:02:01 <Zakim> +marcos; got it
11:02:02 <ArtB> Date: 21 August 2008
11:02:08 <ArtB> Chair: Art
11:02:11 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
11:02:16 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
11:02:45 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0445.html
11:02:57 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
11:02:57 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
11:02:59 <Zakim> +Mike
11:03:01 <Zakim> +??P3
11:03:37 <ArtB> Present: Art, Arve, Marcos, Mike, Claudio
11:03:48 <marcos> Eataly! :D 
11:06:13 <ArtB> Topic: Turin Logistics
11:06:46 <ArtB> CV: taxis from airport to hotel cost about 30-40 euros depending on the hotel
11:06:52 <ArtB> ... expect mild weather
11:07:10 <ArtB> ... Regarding dress code, short pants are OK for the meeting
11:07:27 <ArtB> ... Be careful to only use official taxis, typically white or yellow
11:08:07 <ArtB> ... Trains from Milan to Turin are pretty easy to take
11:09:04 <arve> marcos: you're difficult to hear
11:09:46 <marcos> Arve, will try to sit closer to the mic
11:10:52 <MikeSmith> Zakim, mute Mike
11:10:52 <Zakim> Mike should now be muted
11:11:04 <ArtB> CV: to walk from Art hotel to meeting location should take about 30 mins
11:11:24 <ArtB> AB: who is staying at the Art hotel?
11:11:30 <arve> I am
11:11:39 <marcos> I am too
11:12:18 <ArtB> AB: Marcos, Arve, me too; we can take a taxi to the meeting ~ 9:30 on Tues morn?
11:14:00 <ArtB> Topic: Agenda Review
11:14:12 <ArtB> AB: agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0445.html
11:14:18 <ArtB> AB: any change requests?
11:14:33 <ArtB> MC: Krzy sent some comments right before the meeting
11:14:53 <ArtB> ... we can talk about his new comments
11:15:11 <ArtB> Topic: Turing Agenda
11:15:19 <ArtB> AB: I updated it a bit last week
11:15:28 <ArtB> AB: any general comments?
11:15:55 <ArtB> CV: can Telecom Italia send some observers to parts of the meeting?
11:16:07 <ArtB> AB: yes, that's fine
11:18:18 <ArtB> AB: I've asked Thomas Landsburg to do a short preso on Webwag mobile
11:18:59 <ArtB> Topic: Comments from Krzy 
11:19:17 <marcos> MC: new comments http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0449.html
11:20:03 <ArtB> AB: any comments about Marcos original response to Krzy?
11:20:43 <ArtB> [None]
11:21:15 <ArtB> AB: Marcos, please summarize Krzy's latest comments
11:21:37 <ArtB> MC: a few of his comments are quite complicated
11:22:13 <ArtB> ... e.g. IRI versus URI usage is a bit conflated and I need to fix that in both the Reqs doc and at least the P&C spec
11:23:24 <ArtB> ... He recommends we de-emphasize "web widgets" aka gadgets
11:23:41 <ArtB> ... I think we just need to make a distinction 
11:26:17 <ArtB> AB: I agree we need a clear distinction
11:26:44 <ArtB> CV: during WWW2008 Art made a presentation about Widgets
11:27:12 <ArtB> ... I think that definition removed "web widgets" from our definition of Widgets
11:27:31 <ArtB> ... They are indeed two different things
11:27:43 <ArtB> Arve: we could call this a Widget runtime spec
11:28:00 <ArtB> MC: yes, that would be more specific
11:28:23 <marcos> Widget Runtime 1.0?
11:28:33 <ArtB> AB: people have used the term "WAF Widgets"
11:28:37 <claudio> claudio has joined #wam
11:28:49 <ArtB> ... that would now be "WebApps Widgets"
11:28:53 <claudio> Art said: a specification covering various aspects of Web applications that can be installed to a local computer and still access the Web
11:29:17 <ArtB> MC: I like the idea of adding "runtime"
11:29:50 <Zakim> -marcos
11:29:51 <ArtB> AB: we would need a good definition of runtime
11:30:22 <ArtB> ... it could also includes some implementation context
11:30:30 <Zakim> +??P2
11:30:35 <ArtB> Arve: I think in one paragraph of text we can clarify this
11:30:48 <marcos> zakim, ??P2 is I
11:30:48 <Zakim> +marcos; got it
11:31:42 <ArtB> MC: we have a lot of text already
11:31:50 <ArtB> ... I think the problem is the Name
11:32:21 <ArtB> ... my fear is the name becomes a gate and people don't enter/read based on the name
11:32:58 <ArtB> ACTION: marcos propose a new name for the Widget spec that helps separate our model from the "web widget" model aka gadets
11:32:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Propose a new name for the Widget spec that helps separate our model from the \"web widget\" model aka gadets [on Marcos Caceres - due 2008-08-28].
11:33:54 <ArtB> MC: MIME is raised as an alternative way to package the Widgets
11:34:09 <ArtB> ... I think we need to consider this but perhaps not until v2
11:35:19 <ArtB> AB: I want to continue to use ZIP
11:35:54 <ArtB> MC: agree that based on what has been implemented, ZIP makes senese
11:36:06 <ArtB> ... However, using MIME could help address some issues
11:36:33 <ArtB> Arve: I want to stay with ZIP; MIME has not been considered by Opera
11:36:49 <ArtB> ... I would expect MIME to introduce a new set of problems
11:37:01 <MikeSmith> Zakim, unmute Mike
11:37:01 <Zakim> Mike should no longer be muted
11:37:18 <ArtB> CV: I don't have any comments; I can live with ZIP
11:37:42 <ArtB> ... I would need to see some compelling use cases to consider an alternative packaging format
11:38:00 <ArtB> MS: I agree with Claudio's comments re use cases
11:38:21 <ArtB> ... Without some additional motiviation I'm OK with ZIP
11:38:56 <ArtB> AB: Propose: we stay with ZIP as the packaging format; we will analyze MIME for v2
11:39:24 <ArtB> AB: any objections to this proposal?
11:39:48 <ArtB> [None]
11:40:09 <ArtB> RESOULTION: we will stay with ZIP as the packaging format for v1; we will analyze MIME for v2
11:41:21 <MikeSmith> Zakim, mute Mike
11:41:21 <Zakim> Mike should now be muted
11:42:23 <ArtB> ArtB has joined #wam
11:42:51 <ArtB> AB: any other comments we should discuss now?
11:43:05 <ArtB> MC: I recommend everyone read his comments
11:43:10 <ArtB> ... I will respond in due time
11:43:16 <ArtB> ... Others should respond too
11:44:10 <ArtB> MC: I am very thankful to Krzysztof for his comments
11:44:17 <ArtB> ... they were very useful!
11:45:09 <ArtB> CV: regarding life cycle and events, can you summarize his comments, especially if he is proposing something different then our model?
11:45:29 <ArtB> MC: I think his model is similar to ours but he wants to add a small addition
11:45:57 <ArtB> ... He isn't proposing any changes to what I've put in the spec
11:46:05 <ArtB> ... Just an addition
11:47:21 <ArtB> AB: so everyone, please read Krzy's comments and respond on public-webapps
11:47:40 <ArtB> Topic: Benoit's comments
11:48:02 <ArtB> AB: what is the status Marcos?
11:48:12 <ArtB> MC: I've responded to all of Benoit's comments
11:48:43 <ArtB> AB: OK; great
11:49:02 <ArtB> MC: I just need him to confirm my responses; most of his comments were Editorial
11:49:15 <ArtB> Topic: AOB
11:49:43 <ArtB> Regrets: Nick, David, Benoit, Thomas
11:50:01 <ArtB> AB: please remember to bring your passport to the meeting!
11:50:43 <MikeSmith> Zakim, unmute Mike
11:50:43 <Zakim> Mike should no longer be muted
11:50:54 <ArtB> AB: what are your plans for remote participation?
11:51:04 <ArtB> MS: I should be available for most of the meeting
11:52:39 <Zakim> -arve
11:52:42 <Zakim> -??P3
11:52:43 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
11:52:43 <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
11:52:44 <Zakim> -Mike
11:52:48 <ArtB> AB: Meeting adjourned; see you in Turin on Tuesday!
11:52:49 <Zakim> -marcos
11:52:57 <ArtB> rrsagent, make logs public
11:53:00 <timeless> timeless has joined #wam
11:53:03 <ArtB> rrsagent, make minutes
11:53:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-wam-minutes.html ArtB
11:53:11 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
11:53:13 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM has ended
11:53:15 <Zakim> Attendees were +47.23.69.aaaa, arve, Art_Barstow, marcos, Mike
11:53:25 <Zakim> restarting to recover bridge connection
11:54:23 <ArtB> s/RESOULTION/RESOLUTION/
11:54:29 <ArtB> rrsagent, make minutes
11:54:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-wam-minutes.html ArtB
12:07:50 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
12:07:50 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-wam-actions.rdf :
12:07:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: marcos propose a new name for the Widget spec that helps separate our model from the "web widget" model aka gadets [1]
12:07:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-wam-irc#T11-32-58