14:48:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:48:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-irc
14:48:28 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
14:48:44 <msporny> msporny has joined #rdfa
14:48:55 <RalphS> ->  previous 2008-08-14 http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html
14:49:00 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
14:49:09 <msporny> zakim, who is on the call?
14:49:09 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has not yet started, msporny
14:49:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see msporny, RRSAgent, Steven, Zakim, RalphS
14:49:17 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0092.html
14:49:32 <RalphS> regrets: Ben, Mark, Michael
14:49:36 <msporny> :)
14:50:22 <msporny> We can do a quick call if there is not enough critical mass - I'm curious as to what happens next in the PR process and when the W3C will publish the /final/ RDFa Syntax document.
14:50:46 <RalphS> fine with me
14:51:52 <RalphS> [closing issue-125; commenter's response is in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0094.html ]
14:55:12 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
14:55:26 <RalphS> scribe: ralph
14:56:50 <RalphS> chair: Manu
14:56:51 <msporny> heh :)
14:57:42 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
14:58:10 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
14:58:14 <Zakim> +Ralph
14:59:18 <Zakim> +??P27
14:59:23 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P27
14:59:23 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
15:00:12 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:00:13 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:00:13 <Zakim> +Steven
15:00:33 <Zakim> +McCarron
15:00:38 <Steven> zakim, drop steven
15:00:38 <Zakim> Steven is being disconnected
15:00:39 <Zakim> -Steven
15:00:54 <ShaneM> zakim, McCarron is ShaneM
15:00:54 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
15:01:13 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:01:14 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:01:14 <Zakim> +Steven
15:02:31 <Zakim> +??P35
15:02:52 <RalphS> zakim, ??p35 is Jeremy
15:02:52 <Zakim> +Jeremy; got it
15:03:08 <RalphS> Topic: Action Review
15:03:20 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll has joined #rdfa
15:03:23 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben and Manu to test implementations on step 9 (no child nodes with @property) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action23]
15:03:39 <RalphS> Manu: testing that plain literal empty string is generated when there are no child nodes
15:03:48 <RalphS> ... Ben and Shane's implementation worked, mine was buggy
15:03:53 <RalphS> -- done
15:04:30 <RalphS> ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes
15:05:11 <RalphS> ACTION: Ralph prepare to summarize new W3C test suite license on 28 Aug
15:05:35 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to update Test Suite Manifest to correct tests 52 and 53 descriptions. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
15:05:44 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ralph to send note to Alan regarding ISSUE-122 resolution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action24]
15:05:54 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0092.html response to Alan
15:06:08 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Shane to respond to ISSUE-125 on mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]
15:06:21 <RalphS> -> @@ response
15:06:30 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to contact Ed and Diego about new editors drafts coming down the pipe. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
15:06:49 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
15:06:58 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Manu to create test cases for testing relative URI resolution (href/CURIEs/etc). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action22]
15:07:08 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
15:07:18 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Manu: Start Best Practices Section on the rdfa.info wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
15:07:37 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Aug/0093.html RDFa Best Practices (on wiki)
15:07:49 <RalphS> [Manu 2008-08-21]
15:08:00 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
15:08:09 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
15:08:20 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Michael to complete implementation report and send out notification to all working groups. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-rdfa-minutes.html#action20]
15:08:30 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
15:08:41 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:08:52 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Michael to rewrite and extend http://rdfa.info/wiki/Tutorials for RSS (maybe with seq) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
15:08:56 <RalphS> -> @@ tutorial
15:09:06 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
15:09:12 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to make http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt happen [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
15:09:23 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to start a wiki page for HTML4/5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action21]
15:09:29 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new XSLT URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
15:09:46 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to write home page for SPREAD. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
15:10:33 <RalphS> Topic: SWD WG telecon
15:11:07 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes 19 Aug SWD WG telecon
15:11:31 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes#item03 RDFa topic
15:11:53 <msporny> Topic: SWD call
15:11:59 <msporny> oops
15:12:20 <msporny> scribenick: msporny
15:12:35 <msporny> Ralph: They have agreed to look at RDFa Syntax document.
15:12:45 <msporny> Jeremy: Everything seemed good.
15:12:52 <Steven> q+
15:13:03 <msporny> Ralph: They are going to vote on proposed rec on RDFa at next weeks telecon.
15:13:08 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes#item05 CURIE discussion
15:13:12 <Steven> s/weeks/week's/
15:13:34 <msporny> Ralph: We had discovered that we missed a message from the XHTML2 WG to do a formal review response on LC for CURIE spec.
15:13:36 <Steven> For shame! ;-)
15:14:05 <msporny> Ralph: I reminded them that it would be odd to not give input on content of CURIE spec, since it's used heavily in RDFa.
15:14:37 <msporny> Ralph: Jeremy volunteered on stand-alone CURIE spec.
15:14:46 <msporny> ack Steven
15:14:55 <RalphS> scribe: ralph
15:14:59 <RalphS> scribenick: ralph
15:15:12 <RalphS> Steven: the XHTML2 WG resolved yesterday to take RDFa Syntax to PR
15:16:39 <Steven> And XForms are planning to use it
15:16:56 <RalphS> Shane: there are 4 other specs using the standalone CURIE spec: XHTML Role, Access, XML Events 2, and XHTML2
15:17:19 <RalphS> Jeremy: I note that CURIEs are more versatile than QNames
15:17:36 <Steven> Yes, exactly
15:17:41 <Steven> that's the point
15:20:30 <RalphS> Manu: what's the next step?
15:20:49 <RalphS> Ralph: SWD WG formally resolves to request PR transition -- likely to happen next Tuesday
15:21:08 <RalphS> ... then Ralph schedules a Transition Meeting with Steve Bratt
15:21:26 <RalphS> ... then, assuming Steve agrees we have met the CR exit criteria, we publish
15:21:32 <RalphS> Shane: I need a new status paragraph from Ralph
15:21:34 <RalphS> Ralph: right
15:21:49 <msporny> scribenick: msporny
15:22:08 <msporny> Ralph: Then, there is an announcement to the advisory committee, call for review for PR
15:22:45 <msporny> Ralph: Also in that announcement, there is a solicitation for any member to offer a testimonial to go into the press release.
15:23:02 <msporny> Ralph: There is a 4 week window for the review responses to arrive.
15:23:29 <msporny> Ralph: So if call for review went out before Sept. 2nd, then some time in the beginning of October the team would look at the review responses.
15:23:41 <msporny> Ralph: So we're looking at a directors response in early October.
15:23:58 <msporny> Steven: Would be good to do this before Technical Plenary.
15:24:25 <Steven> TP is week of 20 Oct
15:24:29 <msporny> Ralph: We could have call for review before Sept. 2nd, Review closes before Oct 2nd, Directors decision before Oct 14th.
15:24:37 <msporny> Shane: When is publication moratorium?
15:25:04 <msporny> Ralph: I'd expect that it is no later than the 14th.
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15:25:55 <RalphS> topic: Outreach
15:25:59 <RalphS> scribenick: ralph
15:26:25 <RalphS> Manu: over the past few months we've been working on slashdot, Yahoo, and digg to integrate RDFa
15:26:36 <RalphS> ... digg had done it but recently removed the additions
15:26:43 <RalphS> ... Ben is working with Yahoo
15:26:52 <RalphS> ... any other tech sites we should work with?
15:27:05 <RalphS> ... cnet ?
15:27:40 <RalphS> ... connections to people who do press releases and news items?
15:28:29 <RalphS> ... I can talk with my contact at BBC
15:28:51 <RalphS> ... I'll also talk with Jamie Mccarthy at slashdot; they might be willing to do an interview
15:29:27 <RalphS> ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece
15:29:41 <msporny> Michael Smethurst
15:29:53 <RalphS> ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa
15:31:32 <RalphS> Manu: for community-building, we've started the wiki and public-rdfa@w3.org list
15:31:45 <RalphS> Ralph: there are currently 72 subscribers to public-rdfa
15:32:16 <RalphS> Manu: what can we do to get more conversation going?
15:33:05 <Steven> :-)
15:33:22 <msporny> Mozilla Labs Aurora Browser: http://www.vimeo.com/1450211
15:33:30 <Steven> not to mention rdfa.info
15:33:44 <RalphS> Manu: Aurora video is a concept piece
15:34:01 <RalphS> ... everything they're doing is built around the concept of objects that can be moved around in a browser
15:34:10 <RalphS> ... I recommend looking at those 4 videos
15:34:50 <RalphS> Topic: Implementation tools
15:35:17 <RalphS> s|n t|ns and T|
15:35:30 <RalphS> Jeremy: TopBraid has had some limited RDFa editing support for a long time
15:36:08 <RalphS> ... the wsywyg editor is currently lower on our to-do list than other more pressing tasks
15:36:16 <RalphS> ... though it's actually close to being done
15:36:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS
15:36:45 <RalphS> Manu: Firefox Operator is kind-of stalled at the moment
15:37:04 <RalphS> ... new versions of Operator are being released but there's not been a lot of work lately on new ways to use RDFa
15:37:19 <RalphS> Jeremy: we have a to-do feature list for TopBraid
15:37:28 <RalphS> ... we work on the ones that customers are requiring
15:38:30 <RalphS> i/-> previous/scribenick: ralphs
15:38:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS
15:39:19 <RalphS> i/We can do a/scribenick: ralphs
15:39:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS
15:39:45 <RalphS> Manu: customers might only get interested in RDFa once they see a really nice application implemented
15:39:55 <RalphS> Jeremy: we believe in the usefulness of the technology
15:40:30 <RalphS> Shane: this is a general challenge for RDF
15:40:56 <RalphS> Jeremy: but consider spreadsheets -- TopBraid does support reading Excel spreadsheets because most of our customers do use Excel
15:41:19 <RalphS> ... we don't have trouble selling RDF for integrating user information
15:41:30 <RalphS> ... and we're likely not to have trouble selling RDFa
15:42:13 <RalphS> i/Steven: the XHTML2/scribenick: ralphs
15:42:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS
15:42:33 <RalphS> Manu: I wonder if we should focus on getting some core pieces of RDFa into Firefox
15:42:49 <RalphS> ... for example, the ability to parse RDFa and giving access to that triple store
15:44:22 <RalphS> Ralph: yep, Tabulator @@ is a Firefox plug-in.  It will have RDFa support via GRDDL as soon as I complete my action, but it would be a big performance win to have native RDFa parsing for tools like Tabulator
15:44:35 <RalphS> Manu: is it our goal to have every browser parse RDFa?
15:44:40 <RalphS> Jeremy: yes, yes, yes :)
15:44:56 <RalphS> Steven: I'm not sure that it really matters in the short term
15:45:08 <RalphS> ... it would be fine if they did, but life will go on if they don't
15:46:19 <RalphS> Steven: there are extension points in browsers, so you can implement lots of functionality without the browser developers having to sign on
15:46:36 <RalphS> ... we should not predicate our success on having to get the browsers to sign up
15:46:50 <RalphS> Manu: so javascript and client side development our path?
15:46:55 <RalphS> Steven: yes
15:47:07 <RalphS> ... we saw the same sort of reaction in the early days of SVG and XSLT
15:48:18 <RalphS> Ralph: maybe RDFa API for Javascript is low-hanging fruit?
15:48:35 <RalphS> Steven: similar things are being discussed in the Backplane Incubator Group
15:48:37 <JeremyCarroll> (I am convinced by Steven's comments)
15:48:50 <RalphS> ... they're deciding that the way forward is to do APIs
15:50:07 <RalphS> Manu: some of the core work we're dealing with at DigitalBazaar is hampered by the lack of standard APIs to triples
15:50:58 <RalphS> Ralph: there's also the widget factory stuff
15:51:23 <RalphS> i/Manu: over the/scribenick: ralphs
15:51:41 <RalphS> Topic: Documentation on Wiki
15:51:47 <RalphS> Manu: who's been updating the wiki?
15:51:54 <RalphS> [no voices]
15:52:21 <RalphS> Manu: I'm interested in getting the discussion started on [public-rdfa] as that makes it much easier to update the wiki
15:52:37 <RalphS> Shane: the only thing I plan to do is the HTML4/5+RDFa page
15:52:47 <RalphS> Steven: I plan to do some updates to the implementations page
15:53:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS
15:53:12 <RalphS> Manu: do we have enough of a framework in the wiki now?
15:53:27 <RalphS> Shane: not really but it will come with the growth of the community and continued evangelism
15:53:49 <RalphS> Manu: I could flesh out the tutorial section a bit more based on experience from microformats
15:54:59 <RalphS> ... Jeremy, would you care to expand on the TopBraid paragraph?
15:55:17 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki
15:55:59 <RalphS> s|/5||
15:56:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS
15:57:47 <RalphS> Ralph: don't forget about the Primer
15:57:58 <RalphS> ... perhaps it could usefully be a bit longer
15:58:17 <RalphS> Shane: have people thought about how we're going to deal with XMLLiteral in HTML4+RDFa ?
15:58:41 <RalphS> Jeremy: I've thought about it but takes longer than 2 minutes to explain
15:58:54 <RalphS> Manu: there's also the @prefix question for HTML4
16:02:25 <RalphS> zakim, list attendees
16:02:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, msporny, Steven, ShaneM, Jeremy
16:02:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS
16:02:46 <RalphS> [adjourned]
16:02:46 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:02:47 <Zakim> -Jeremy
16:02:47 <Zakim> -Steven
16:02:49 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:02:50 <Zakim> -msporny
16:02:52 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:02:53 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, msporny, Steven, ShaneM, Jeremy
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18:54:26 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
18:54:26 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-actions.rdf :
18:54:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben and Manu to test implementations on step 9 (no child nodes with @property) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action23] [1]
18:54:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-irc#T15-03-23
18:54:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu write a pending test case for literal property and no child nodes [2]
18:54:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-irc#T15-04-30
18:54:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph prepare to summarize new W3C test suite license on 28 Aug [3]
18:54:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-irc#T15-05-11
18:54:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [4]
18:54:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-irc#T15-29-27
18:54:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu talk with Michael Smethurst at BBC about RDFa [5]
18:54:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-irc#T15-29-53
18:54:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [6]
18:54:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/21-rdfa-irc#T15-55-17