11:33:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mw4d
11:33:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/18-mw4d-irc
11:34:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mw4d
11:35:05 <steph> steph has joined #mw4d
11:35:24 <steph> zakim, will be m4wd
11:35:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'will be m4wd', steph
11:35:29 <steph> zakim, this will be m4wd
11:35:29 <Zakim> ok, steph; I see UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
11:37:58 <Adesina> Adesina has joined #mw4d
11:38:21 <Adesina> Hi
11:38:44 <steph> hi Adesina
11:38:58 <steph> Meeting:MW4D bi-monthly meeting
11:39:08 <Adesina> Hello, preparing to call in soon
11:39:19 <steph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Aug/0052.html
11:39:54 <Adesina> ok
11:47:33 <ewheeler> ewheeler has joined #mw4d
11:52:52 <steph> Hi Evan !
11:54:17 <jeffs> jeffs has joined #mw4d
11:54:26 <steph> Hi Jeffs
11:54:39 <jeffs> hello, steph... hope you are having a good day
11:54:55 <steph> yes, already half is gone here !
11:55:11 <Adesina> are we using the phone cal -in?
11:55:15 <jeffs> I am sucking on a cup of coffee and awakening
11:55:32 <jeffs> I'll call in momentarily
11:55:42 <ewheeler> hey steph
11:55:56 <steph> Adesina yes
11:56:02 <steph> the call will start in 5mn
11:56:08 <Adesina> ok
11:56:46 <Zakim> UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has now started
11:56:53 <Zakim> + +1.585.278.aaaa
11:57:14 <jeffs> aaaa is jeffs
11:57:16 <bgillis> bgillis has joined #mw4d
11:57:25 <jeffs> zakim, aaaa is jeffs
11:57:26 <Zakim> +jeffs; got it
11:57:36 <steph> zakim, code ?
11:57:36 <Zakim> the conference code is 6493 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), steph
11:58:00 <Zakim> +steph
11:58:42 <steph> hi Bill
11:59:43 <bgillis> be there soon
11:59:47 <steph> scribe:steph
11:59:49 <steph> Chair:ken
12:00:01 <steph> scribenick:steph
12:00:02 <jeffs> thank you steph for taking on the scribe responsibilities
12:00:24 <steph> normally everybody should be on irc today, so people should learn !
12:00:34 <Jacob> Hi guys
12:00:39 <Zakim> +??P3
12:00:40 <steph> Hi Jacob
12:00:49 <jeffs> BTW: I got approval from the "higher ups" for travel money to attend the f2f in October
12:00:51 <steph> zakim, ??p3 is Ken
12:00:51 <Zakim> +Ken; got it
12:01:33 <kiwanja> kiwanja has joined #mw4d
12:01:37 <kiwanja> hello
12:01:41 <jeffs> welcome
12:01:47 <Zakim> +??P4
12:01:48 <kiwanja> thanks!
12:01:53 <Zakim> +Jacob
12:01:54 <steph> Present:Ken, Jeffs, Stephane 
12:02:05 <steph> Present+Jacob
12:02:09 <steph> Present+Adesina
12:02:12 <Adesina> Adesina call in 
12:02:15 <steph> zakim, ??p4 is Adesina
12:02:15 <Zakim> +Adesina; got it
12:02:20 <Adesina> called in already
12:02:34 <Zakim> + +1.336.413.aabb
12:02:41 <steph> zakim, aabb is Evan
12:02:42 <Zakim> +Evan; got it
12:02:45 <jeffs> zakim, who is online
12:02:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is online', jeffs
12:02:47 <steph> Present+Evan
12:02:55 <jeffs> zakim, who is present
12:02:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is present', jeffs
12:02:57 <steph> zakim, who is here ?
12:02:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeffs, steph, Ken, Adesina, Jacob, Evan
12:02:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see kiwanja, bgillis, jeffs, ewheeler, Adesina, steph, Zakim, RRSAgent, Jacob
12:03:38 <jeffs> zakim, who is present
12:03:38 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is present', jeffs
12:03:51 <jeffs> zakim, who is here?
12:03:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see jeffs, steph, Ken, Adesina, Jacob, Evan
12:03:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see kiwanja, bgillis, jeffs, ewheeler, Adesina, steph, Zakim, RRSAgent, Jacob
12:04:01 <Zakim> + +1.509.432.aacc
12:04:10 <steph> zakim, aacc is Bill
12:04:10 <Zakim> +Bill; got it
12:04:14 <steph> Present+bill
12:04:17 <jeffs> good to see the increased IRC presence... helps a lot with having a record to look at later
12:04:25 <Adesina> yes this is cool
12:04:26 <steph> yes exactly
12:07:03 <jeffs> zakim, who is making noise?
12:07:03 <Renjish> Renjish has joined #mw4d
12:07:06 <steph> Agenda+Tech plenary
12:07:10 <jeffs> start
12:07:16 <Zakim> jeffs, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: steph (47%), Ken (44%)
12:07:37 <steph> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Aug/0052.html
12:07:41 <steph> zakim, mute me
12:07:41 <Zakim> steph should now be muted
12:07:48 <steph> yes
12:07:53 <steph> cannes exactly
12:08:08 <steph> Topic: last meeting minutes
12:08:10 <jeffs> move we approve he minutes
12:08:13 <steph> zakim, unmute me
12:08:13 <Zakim> steph should no longer be muted
12:08:18 <jeffs> s/he/the
12:08:31 <Zakim> + +2
12:08:49 <steph> zakim, +2 is renjish
12:08:49 <Zakim> +renjish; got it
12:08:54 <steph> Present+renjish
12:09:02 <steph> zakim, mute me
12:09:02 <Zakim> steph should now be muted
12:09:28 <steph> thanks Jeffs !
12:09:38 <jeffs> move we approve the minutes from last mtg
12:09:50 <steph> ACTION: steph to publish august 4 minutes on the mw4d homepage
12:10:07 <steph> RESOLUTION: minutes of august 4 approved
12:10:14 <steph> Topic: action item resolution
12:10:17 <steph> zakim, unmute me
12:10:17 <Zakim> steph should no longer be muted
12:10:53 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2008/MW4D/wiki
12:11:17 <steph> wiki discussion: pending 
12:11:27 <Zakim> +Lauri
12:11:38 <steph> Present+Lauri
12:11:43 <Adesina> welcome
12:12:20 <steph> Renjish to write a scenario around the vision
12:12:35 <steph> zakim, mute me
12:12:35 <Zakim> steph should now be muted
12:13:20 <steph> renjish: idea was to bring introduction, context,... before the bullets
12:13:23 <Zakim> + +1.206.855.aaee
12:13:28 <steph> should be in the vision section
12:13:34 <steph> so pending
12:13:50 <steph> zakim, aaee is Marianne
12:13:50 <Zakim> +Marianne; got it
12:13:56 <Adesina> hi
12:13:56 <steph> Present+Marianne
12:14:15 <steph> steph to investigate the availability of a java applet to connect to irc 
12:14:19 <steph> right
12:14:19 <steph> done
12:14:32 <steph> stephane to continue discussion on definition of mobile devices 
12:14:46 <steph> done-part of the wider discussion and included in the 
12:14:49 <steph> zakim, unmute me
12:14:49 <Zakim> steph should no longer be muted
12:14:50 <Mari> Mari has joined #mw4d
12:14:51 <jeffs> should be part of vision
12:15:07 <steph> diagram
12:15:22 <steph> Stephane to publish july 28 minutes
12:15:26 <steph> steph:done
12:15:42 <steph> Topic: Core Values and assumptions
12:15:59 <jeffs> what was the date of the email again?/me 
12:16:17 <steph> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Aug/att-0039/W3C_Mobile_Web_for_Social_Development_Group_-_Core_Values.pdf
12:16:19 <Renjish> 8/13
12:16:31 <jeffs> thanks
12:16:36 <ewheeler> found it
12:16:36 <steph> from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Aug/0039.html
12:17:05 <Marianne> Marianne has joined #mw4d
12:17:47 <steph> Ken: after last conf, Ken and steph discussed to drive the group in a direction that makes sense
12:18:03 <steph> so first draft released to define the core values
12:18:39 <steph> ken: at least we have pillars against which we could check if directions are relevant for the group or not
12:19:04 <steph> ken: we could otherwise spend the whole year on the framework
12:19:48 <steph> ken: today's technology box
12:20:09 <steph> bill: great diagram, but we need to open for future technology
12:20:59 <steph> concerns too tied to today
12:21:18 <steph> the technology will change, the situation will change, and we should be ready to tackle these changes
12:21:24 <steph> zakim, mute me
12:21:24 <Zakim> steph should now be muted
12:22:46 <steph> m/zakim, unmute me
12:22:50 <steph> zakim, unmute me
12:22:50 <Zakim> steph should no longer be muted
12:22:52 <kiwanja> steph?
12:23:17 <kiwanja> "While practical solutions and analysis should be grounded within the technologies--hardware, software and connectivity--widely available to people in underserved communities today--they also should anticipate and not constrain future technological advances which may be even more beneficial."
12:23:25 <steph> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2008Aug/0046.html
12:24:08 <steph> q+
12:24:35 <steph> adesina: social development in the name of the group
12:24:40 <steph> we should not be technocentric
12:24:40 <Renjish> q+
12:24:46 <steph> q-
12:24:58 <steph> adesina: the point is to bridge the digital divide
12:25:19 <steph> how to provide informations to people
12:25:35 <steph> are the technology existing today are they good enough to the goal ?
12:25:49 <steph> q+
12:26:13 <steph> ken: i fully agree
12:26:31 <steph> it is techno-centric in this box, but this is right the group is not techno-centric
12:26:44 <steph> we need to make sure that we look at people's need
12:26:56 <steph> you totally right
12:27:08 <steph> ken: we needs to be needs driven
12:27:17 <Marianne> Fully agree too
12:27:18 <Adesina> ok
12:27:22 <Adesina> thanks
12:27:46 <steph> q?
12:28:00 <steph> ack renjish
12:28:36 <steph> renjish: not sure my point was clear
12:28:51 <steph> we need to be broader
12:29:08 <steph> mobile services not equal to mobile web
12:29:16 <jeffs> capabilities may be a better focus than technologies in that box
12:30:04 <steph> renjish: use of voiceXML is questionnable in terms of viable commercial services
12:30:10 <steph> same for SMS
12:30:35 <jeffs> q?
12:30:52 <Adesina> mobile web will demand more bandwidht that is presently available in most developing countries
12:30:56 <jeffs> needs and capabilities focus makes sense to me, tech comes and goes
12:30:58 <steph> Marianne: we have to choose to look at how to imporve the technology or focus on the needs
12:31:09 <steph> marianne: waht makes sense is to understand what's going on
12:31:55 <steph> we could release information about how to use existing technology
12:33:01 <steph> ken: can we influence the deployment of next generation of handset/network ?
12:33:10 <jeffs> the underlying techs are developed by providers, but it is the end-users who push how it is used
12:33:31 <jeffs> q?
12:33:35 <steph> ack steph
12:33:36 <ewheeler> q+
12:34:40 <Jacob> Can we include development services to technology matrix which may include both aspects?
12:34:52 <Adesina> developmet is about challenging status quo, present tech in these regions can deliver the desired services, so we can make a case for advanced tech to be made commercially available in these areas
12:35:26 <jeffs> the underlying technologies are developed by providers, but it is the end-users who push how it is used, "change status quo", suggest we avoid getting hung up on tech itself
12:36:03 <steph> i believe Jacob has a point
12:36:14 <Renjish> SMS-based value added services already exist
12:36:15 <steph> i do hope that we could build such matrix
12:36:22 <jeffs> suggest: "a method of accessing web content via any technology"
12:36:33 <Adesina> yes
12:36:34 <steph> +1 to jeff proposal
12:36:39 <kiwanja> q?
12:36:53 <steph> acj ewheeler
12:36:57 <steph> ack ewheeler
12:37:17 <steph> evan: mobile phones are constantly evolving and mobile web will be there in few years
12:37:35 <steph> but other more basic techno will still be the alone option in some parts of the world
12:37:56 <steph> no going to disappear anytime soon
12:38:05 <steph> accessing the web with these techno is important
12:38:21 <Renjish> q+
12:38:35 <jeffs> suggest: "a method of accessing web content via any technology" and avoid getting stuck in what-is
12:39:13 <steph> adesina: people would not have any other means to access internet through mobile phone in africa
12:39:59 <steph> demand there, market there
12:40:07 <steph> low-cost laptop is a good device
12:40:15 <steph> in nigeria
12:40:26 <steph> ken: valid comment, but you cover few boxes
12:40:40 <jeffs> s/few/several
12:40:53 <steph> ken: lots of discussion recently around low-cost laptop
12:41:08 <steph> how long would it take before it reaches the people we are targetting
12:41:46 <jeffs> it does not matter what the tech is, it just matters that they are using the Web and its' content to drive development
12:41:57 <jeffs> q?
12:42:23 <steph> q+
12:42:37 <jeffs> suggest again: "a method of accessing web content via any technology" and avoid getting stuck on this
12:42:38 <steph> adesina: low-cost laptop price are ging down
12:42:48 <steph> s/ging/going/
12:42:51 <kiwanja> q?
12:43:06 <Mari> Agree w/ Jeff
12:43:29 <steph> Lauri: i've been looking at low-cost laptop
12:43:36 <steph> how to deploy
12:43:42 <steph> give them to government
12:43:48 <kiwanja> via any technology is very very broad, though!
12:43:59 <Adesina> low-cost laptop is even beyond school children
12:44:01 <steph> good chance that it will arrive soon
12:44:05 <kiwanja> do you also include desktop computers, then?
12:44:17 <steph> most of the programs are revising this strategy though
12:44:20 <ewheeler> indeed
12:44:34 <Adesina> the commercial versions like Asus, MSI are going to esclipe OLPC
12:44:45 <ewheeler> perhaps devices that can be pocketed?
12:44:59 <kiwanja> q?
12:45:12 <steph> ack renjish
12:45:36 <steph> renjish: lots of apps have multiple channels
12:45:38 <steph> like banking
12:45:53 <kiwanja> i think we need to think backwards on the technology. look at the 'target audience' and then think about techs they are likely to have. make sense?
12:46:02 <kiwanja> maybe that
12:46:12 <jeffs> "a method of accessing web content via any technology which can be mobile"
12:46:13 <steph> renjish: are we looking at providing web access to developing countries or to provide application
12:46:15 <kiwanja> maybe that's part of the technology matrix raised earlier
12:47:01 <steph> renjish: hard to have an end-to-end
12:47:09 <steph> solution
12:47:12 <steph> q+
12:47:25 <bgillis> suggest framework use matrix to recognize possiblilities then narrow to practical scope
12:47:41 <jeffs> q?
12:47:42 <steph> q?
12:47:54 <steph> ack steph
12:48:21 <Mari> q?
12:48:39 <Mari> q
12:48:44 <kiwanja> q?
12:48:58 <kiwanja> (how do people join the speaker queue?)
12:49:03 <kiwanja> q...  ?
12:49:20 <kiwanja> noted
12:49:22 <Renjish> agreed. but can we identify some of those web content which helps social development? If it is banking etc, we already have SMS and voice based services available in the market
12:49:48 <jeffs> q?
12:50:44 <jeffs> "a method of accessing web content via any technology which can be mobile"
12:50:48 <ewheeler> mari, kiwanja: type q (plus)
12:51:12 <Renjish> Ken, can you ask Lauri about any vision from dotmobi in this regard? 
12:51:16 <jeffs> type that in as an item for the log pls
12:51:22 <steph> ken: i propose that people submits their own workding for each boxes
12:51:31 <jeffs> +1
12:51:31 <Renjish> Yes
12:51:35 <Renjish> that's fine
12:51:37 <steph> +1
12:51:37 <Mari> Agree
12:51:47 <Adesina> AGREED
12:51:53 <Jacob> agree
12:52:12 <steph> RESOLUTION: all those who wants submit their wording for the values dfiagram by the end of the week
12:52:27 <Renjish> Yes
12:52:34 <jeffs> s/dfiagram/diagram
12:52:40 <Renjish> I see core values same as the framework document
12:52:45 <steph> ken: ahppy tot ake suggestion for the title too
12:52:50 <Renjish> it is the scope
12:52:54 <steph> s/ah/ha/
12:52:59 <steph> s/tot/to/
12:53:06 <steph> s/ake/take/
12:53:15 <steph> Topic: TEch pleanry
12:53:30 <bgillis> after this discussion emphasis on scope important
12:53:54 <kiwanja> renjish - will leave lauri add this when we get his feedback on the diagram, and when we discuss next meeting. okay?
12:54:06 <Renjish> sure.
12:54:10 <kiwanja> great
12:54:32 <Adesina> please e-mail the details to u
12:54:40 <kiwanja> agreed
12:54:45 <Adesina> ok
12:54:51 <Adesina> hat will be useful
12:55:04 <steph> ACTION: stephane to send information about the w3c technical pleanry
12:55:19 <steph> Topic: AoB
12:55:40 <kiwanja> q?
12:55:46 <Adesina> none
12:55:50 <kiwanja> okay!
12:55:51 <Renjish> ok
12:55:55 <Adesina> ok
12:55:56 <steph> Steph: next meeting september 1st
12:56:00 <kiwanja> same time
12:56:18 <Renjish> agree. we should have a deadline
12:56:21 <Jacob> k
12:56:22 <jeffs> I will be continuing my "campaign" to involve more people *from* "the developing world"
12:56:34 <jeffs> hope no one minds
12:56:41 <Adesina> great!
12:56:54 <Jacob> k
12:57:00 <steph> steph: i still hope that we would conclude on this topic by the end of the week
12:57:04 <steph> s/week/month
12:57:18 <steph> ken: i agree, we could go on for a full year just on this topic
12:57:34 <Adesina> ok
12:57:35 <steph> but we need to move on making real results, that could have an impact 
12:57:40 <kiwanja> we should set 1st sept as the FIRM deadline for comments on values from the group..
12:57:44 <jeffs> I think of this as the "foundation" upon which we will build our framework
12:57:49 <Adesina> ok
12:57:51 <steph> rrsagent, make log public
12:57:52 <Renjish> thanks
12:57:59 <kiwanja> thanks!
12:58:02 <steph> rrsagent, make minutes
12:58:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/18-mw4d-minutes.html steph
12:58:04 <Jacob> thanks!!
12:58:08 <Adesina> bye!
12:58:13 <kiwanja> bye
12:58:14 <Renjish> bye
12:58:16 <Zakim> -steph
12:58:17 <Zakim> -Marianne
12:58:17 <Zakim> -Lauri
12:58:19 <Zakim> -Adesina
12:58:19 <Zakim> -renjish
12:58:22 <Zakim> -Jacob
12:58:24 <Zakim> -Evan
12:58:31 <Zakim> -Bill
12:59:48 <Zakim> -jeffs
12:59:49 <Zakim> -Ken
12:59:50 <Zakim> UW_MW4D IG()8:00AM has ended
12:59:52 <jeffs> bye
12:59:52 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.585.278.aaaa, jeffs, steph, Ken, Jacob, Adesina, +1.336.413.aabb, Evan, +1.509.432.aacc, Bill, renjish, Lauri, +1.206.855.aaee, Marianne
13:00:00 <steph> steph has left #mw4d