IRC log of css on 2008-08-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:39:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #css
15:39:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/13-css-irc
15:39:52 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
15:39:52 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
15:50:33 [shepazu]
shepazu has joined #css
15:51:13 [glazou]
shepazu: hi Doug
15:51:27 [glazou]
got my email ?
15:51:29 [shepazu]
hi, Daniel
15:51:32 [shepazu]
I did
15:51:43 [shepazu]
I wish you'd sent it before :)
15:51:57 [glazou]
yes I know, but I only thought about it today
15:52:10 [glazou]
having next/previousElementSibling on Node would help a lot
15:52:26 [glazou]
I saw that hacking mozilla composer today
15:52:43 [glazou]
plenty of locations where we start from an arbitrary Node and look for adjacent element
15:52:48 [shepazu]
yup
15:52:56 [shepazu]
I can totally see the use case
15:52:58 [krijnh]
Bert: What are you going to talk about at Fronteers 2008?
15:53:00 [glazou]
ok
15:53:21 [Bert]
I don't know yet, krijnh :-)
15:53:41 [krijnh]
Just spotted the announcement on http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/
15:54:20 [Bert]
Are you a member of the Fronteers?
15:54:23 [krijnh]
Yeah
15:54:31 [krijnh]
Board member even, if the ALV lets me :)
15:54:37 [krijnh]
And I've built the site
15:54:49 [krijnh]
I'm the de facto treasurer atm
15:54:53 [krijnh]
-de
15:54:56 [krijnh]
+de
15:54:58 [krijnh]
:s
15:55:05 [krijnh]
Yeah, me too
15:56:06 [krijnh]
:)
15:56:12 [krijnh]
Had to pimp my CMS a bit..
15:56:31 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:56:38 [Zakim]
+glazou
15:56:38 [krijnh]
But anyway, just wondering what you were going to talk about :)
15:56:44 [Zakim]
+plinss
16:00:25 [Zakim]
+Bert
16:00:52 [glazou]
shepazu: you want me to send that comment to the WG ?
16:01:28 [shepazu]
glazou: you can if you like, but it might be something for v2
16:01:38 [glazou]
no problem
16:02:08 [krijnh]
(Hmm, are the logs broken for this channel, or did I turn them off?)
16:02:13 [glazou]
but how ware you going to deal with the fact the method will be defined on Element first and then on Node ?
16:02:17 [shepazu]
in fact, yes, that should be on public record, glazou
16:02:18 [glazou]
s/ware/are
16:02:21 [Zakim]
+Melinda_Grant
16:03:46 [melinda]
melinda has joined #CSS
16:04:03 [shepazu]
glazou: no conflict... ElTrav v1 deals only with the Element node while v2 could also extend the more generic Node interface
16:04:04 [jason_cranfordtea]
jason_cranfordtea has joined #css
16:04:04 [Zakim]
+jason_cranfordtea
16:04:40 [Zakim]
+ +47.21.65.aaaa
16:04:41 [sylvaing]
sylvaing has joined #css
16:04:57 [glazou]
Zakim, +47.21.65.aaaa is hakon
16:05:07 [Zakim]
+hakon; got it
16:06:06 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:06:41 [glazou]
fantasai: yt ?
16:06:51 [sylvaing]
Zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
16:06:51 [Zakim]
+sylvaing; got it
16:07:52 [glazou]
Zakim, who is here ?
16:07:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see glazou, plinss, Bert, Melinda_Grant, jason_cranfordtea, hakon, [Microsoft]
16:07:54 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has sylvaing
16:07:55 [Zakim]
On IRC I see sylvaing, jason_cranfordtea, melinda, shepazu, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, plinss, arronei, plinss_, jdaggett, fantasai, Bert, krijnh, Hixie, trackbot
16:08:29 [Bert]
scribe: Bert
16:08:34 [glazou]
Zakim, who is noisy?
16:08:34 [Bert]
scribenick: Bert
16:08:45 [Zakim]
glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (14%), plinss (55%)
16:08:50 [Bert]
Topic: Agenda
16:08:57 [Zakim]
+??P20
16:09:11 [glazou]
Zakim, ??P20 is fantasai
16:09:11 [Zakim]
+fantasai; got it
16:09:15 [fantasai]
Zakim, mute me
16:09:15 [Zakim]
fantasai should now be muted
16:09:40 [fantasai]
Regrets from two new members from AOL and Boeing
16:09:47 [glazou]
I was waiting for hakon :-)
16:09:59 [Bert]
Daniel: Regrets from the two new members.
16:10:07 [glazou]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008JulSep/0096.html
16:10:22 [Bert]
Topic: Mobile Profile
16:10:44 [Bert]
Daniel: Svante asked for editorial changes in the CR.
16:11:00 [Bert]
Daniel: One is a link that Bert changed in the mean time.
16:11:11 [fantasai]
seems reasonable to me
16:11:28 [Bert]
Daniel: The other is "character set" -> "character encoding" because the wrong term was used.
16:11:53 [Bert]
Peter: Have to check with CSS 2.1 that term is used consistently.
16:12:06 [Bert]
Daniel: Third change is a missing space.
16:13:01 [Bert]
Decided to change and republish
16:13:16 [fantasai]
Zakim, unmute me
16:13:16 [Zakim]
fantasai should no longer be muted
16:13:22 [Bert]
Bert: Edits either by me or Svante. I can do the publication.
16:14:02 [Bert]
Topic: Previous actions
16:14:17 [fantasai]
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-56
16:14:57 [Bert]
Topic: CSS 2.1 issue 56
16:15:24 [Bert]
Daniel: Was postponed for MS to investigate.
16:16:05 [Bert]
Fantasai: Anybody object to proposal?
16:16:12 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: text-decoration should propagate through table elements
16:16:38 [Bert]
Fantasai: Do you need time to review the wording?
16:16:41 [fantasai]
Postpone decision to accept wording, need more time
16:16:58 [fantasai]
ACTION: Saloni Review wording on CSS2.1 Issue 56
16:16:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-87 - Review wording on CSS2.1 Issue 56 [on Saloni Mira Rai - due 2008-08-20].
16:17:07 [fantasai]
ACTION: fantasai review wording on CSS2.1 Issue 56
16:17:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-88 - Review wording on CSS2.1 Issue 56 [on Elika Etemad - due 2008-08-20].
16:17:42 [Bert]
Daniel: Final answer should be ready by ftf.
16:17:54 [Bert]
Topic: CSS 2.1 issue 14
16:18:17 [fantasai]
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-14
16:19:07 [Bert]
Daniel: We need David Baron for this issue.
16:19:17 [Bert]
Fantasai: Bert found something in the spec.
16:19:25 [glazou]
fantasai: really hard to hear you...
16:20:12 [Bert]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Jul/0586.html
16:20:13 [fantasai]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Jul/0586.html
16:22:09 [Bert]
Bert: I agree with the proposal, but also think that in addition height <> auto means bottom doesn't collapse with children.
16:22:14 [Bert]
Fantasai: That is a separate issue.
16:22:30 [fantasai]
ok
16:22:36 [fantasai]
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-42
16:22:45 [Bert]
Daniel: Seems we need to do this issue at the ftf.
16:22:59 [Bert]
Topic: CSS 2.1 issue 42
16:23:24 [fantasai]
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-53 is probably easier
16:23:45 [Bert]
Postpone.
16:23:52 [Bert]
Topic: CSS 2.1 issue 53
16:27:35 [Bert]
Bert explains proposal, need to distingush justify in blocks and whiet space stretching for inline.
16:27:42 [Bert]
Daniel: Seems proposal is fine.
16:27:53 [Bert]
Peter: Need to check implementations as well.
16:28:00 [Bert]
Howcome: no comment.
16:28:07 [Bert]
Sylaving: Do we know what impls do?
16:28:22 [Bert]
s/Sylaving/Sylvaing/
16:28:36 [Bert]
Daniel: That would be good to know.
16:29:09 [Bert]
Peter: We may assume Moz is willing to change to proposal, how about others?
16:29:28 [Bert]
Daniel: Need test cases.
16:29:56 [fantasai]
ACTION: fantasai get a testcase for css2.1 issue 53
16:29:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-89 - Get a testcase for css2.1 issue 53 [on Elika Etemad - due 2008-08-20].
16:30:07 [fantasai]
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-54
16:30:17 [Bert]
Topic: CSS 2.1 issue 54
16:31:22 [Bert]
Daniel: Proposal makes sense.
16:32:01 [Bert]
Peter: Do we need to clarify *which* element determines the direction for the marker?
16:32:25 [Bert]
Daniel: I think the proposaed text cavers it.
16:32:31 [fantasai]
Elika: I think it's pretty obviously the list item element itself
16:32:47 [Bert]
Bert: fine with proposal.
16:33:11 [fantasai]
Melinda: So if we have a list that is predominantly ltr, but one item is rtl, it will put the marker on the other side?
16:33:12 [Bert]
Melinda: So if only one item in the list is rtl, it puts that marker on the other side?
16:33:16 [Bert]
Daniel: Yes.
16:33:31 [sylvaing]
no objection
16:33:41 [Bert]
Peter: Is that what we want?
16:34:25 [Bert]
Daniel: Case would be a list with English and a few Hebrew items.
16:34:55 [Bert]
Fantasai: [something] does [something] [Scribe can't hear]
16:35:02 [fantasai]
Elika: We have interoperability on all four implementations
16:35:50 [Bert]
Daniel: OK, so then the prose must be clear that direction is direction of list item itself.
16:35:53 [Bert]
RESOLVED
16:36:31 [Bert]
Fantasai: The text already has that.
16:36:41 [Bert]
Daniel: Or add a note with an example.
16:36:52 [Bert]
Fantasai: I think that's already there.
16:37:23 [Bert]
Peter: Use words "of the element"
16:37:46 [fantasai]
Proposal is s/elements/list items/
16:37:58 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: proposal accepted with change above
16:38:36 [Bert]
Topic: CSS 2.1 issue 60
16:38:54 [Bert]
Fantasai: Cannot be done on phone, needs in depth review.
16:39:14 [fantasai]
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/spec/css2.1#issue-60
16:39:15 [Bert]
Daniel: So action for everyone to review before ftf. Will be on ftf agenda.
16:39:37 [fantasai]
Zakim, mute me
16:39:37 [Zakim]
fantasai should now be muted
16:39:46 [Bert]
Fantasai: That should be all we can do for CSS 2.1 today.
16:40:05 [fantasai]
Zakim, unmute me
16:40:05 [Zakim]
fantasai should no longer be muted
16:40:07 [sylvaing]
Zakim, [Microsoft] has salonir, arronei
16:40:07 [Zakim]
+salonir, arronei; got it
16:40:15 [Bert]
Topic: Pages counter
16:40:41 [glazou]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2008JulSep/0094.html
16:40:43 [Bert]
Howcome: I sent an e-mail. Q is if 'pages' counter should be in Paged Media.
16:40:54 [Bert]
Melinda: We didn't have implementations for it.
16:41:16 [Bert]
Melinda: But would be nice to be able to put it back in
16:41:21 [glazou]
sorry wrong url
16:41:24 [glazou]
correct url is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Aug/0120.html
16:41:33 [Bert]
Howcome: Let me ping Antennahouse if they have an impl.
16:42:00 [Bert]
Howcome: Is the 'page' counter incremented automatically?
16:42:07 [Bert]
Melinda/Fantasai: yes
16:42:25 [Bert]
ACTION: howcome to ping antennahouse about 'pages' implementation
16:42:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-90 - Ping antennahouse about 'pages' implementation [on Håkon Wium Lie - due 2008-08-20].
16:42:43 [Bert]
Topic: ftf agenda
16:43:04 [Bert]
Daniel: I saw a few request. Please send more (or put on wiki) asap.
16:43:53 [Bert]
Jason: Can you fix the time for the fonts discussion, so I can participate. (At a reasonable time for me.)
16:44:28 [Bert]
Peter: Wiki page useful for our planning. Add how much discussion you expect.
16:44:30 [plinss]
http://csswg.inkedblade.net/planning/cambridge-2008
16:45:25 [Bert]
Howcome: can two local Opera people attend as well?
16:45:41 [Bert]
Daniel: Fine with me, but need MS to agree, they are host.
16:45:54 [Bert]
Saloni: Alex is away, but will ask him.
16:46:09 [Zakim]
-jason_cranfordtea
16:46:10 [Zakim]
-Melinda_Grant
16:46:12 [Bert]
Nobody here objects to howcome's requests.
16:46:14 [Zakim]
-hakon
16:46:16 [Zakim]
-plinss
16:46:20 [Zakim]
-glazou
16:46:21 [Bert]
s/requests/request/
16:46:21 [Zakim]
-fantasai
16:46:23 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
16:46:33 [Zakim]
-Bert
16:46:34 [fantasai]
Thanks, Bert
16:46:35 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
16:46:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were glazou, plinss, Bert, Melinda_Grant, jason_cranfordtea, hakon, sylvaing, fantasai, salonir, arronei
16:46:38 [glazou]
thanks Bert!
16:46:50 [Bert]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:46:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/13-css-minutes.html Bert
16:47:17 [glazou]
fantasai, sorry but I had more problems than others hearing you, all your words were cut
16:52:58 [Bert]
rrsagent, make minutes public
16:52:58 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', Bert. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:53:05 [Bert]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:54:59 [Bert]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:54:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/13-css-minutes.html Bert
17:11:44 [sylvaing]
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