13:57:48 RRSAgent has joined #bpwg 13:57:48 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-bpwg-irc 13:57:50 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:57:50 Zakim has joined #bpwg 13:57:52 Zakim, this will be BPWG 13:57:52 ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 13:57:53 Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 13:57:53 Date: 31 July 2008 13:58:33 rob has joined #bpwg 13:59:03 MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started 13:59:04 +jeffs 13:59:06 Chair: Jo 13:59:18 hey jo 14:00:00 zakim, who is here? 14:00:00 On the phone I see jeffs 14:00:02 On IRC I see rob, Zakim, RRSAgent, jeffs, jo, francois, trackbot, dom, matt 14:00:08 +francois 14:00:15 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0089.html 14:00:37 Regrets: DavidStorey, Murari, Aaron, Scott, Kai, EdM 14:00:44 zakim, code? 14:00:44 the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom 14:00:53 +??P13 14:01:08 zakim, ??P13 is me 14:01:08 +jo; got it 14:01:12 zakim, who is here? 14:01:12 On the phone I see jeffs, francois, jo 14:01:13 On IRC I see rob, Zakim, RRSAgent, jeffs, jo, francois, trackbot, dom, matt 14:01:22 +rob 14:01:26 abel has joined #bpwg 14:01:27 -rob 14:01:33 +rob 14:01:41 +??P17 14:01:46 zakim, ??P17 is me 14:01:51 +dom; got it 14:02:05 jsmanrique has joined #bpwg 14:02:16 nacho has joined #bpwg 14:02:22 me looking for headphones, back in a flash 14:02:26 Bryan has joined #bpwg 14:02:27 +Bryan_Sullivan 14:03:03 +adam 14:04:07 zakim, who makes noise? 14:04:12 aconnors has joined #bpwg 14:04:17 I don't understand your question, francois. 14:04:24 zakim, who is noisy 14:04:37 I don't understand 'who is noisy', jo 14:04:39 zakim, who is making noise? 14:04:57 yeliz has joined #bpwg 14:05:01 francois, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jeffs (5%), francois (6%), jo (37%), rob (24%), adam (37%) 14:05:08 +Drooks 14:05:24 zakim, nute me 14:05:36 I don't understand 'nute me', jo 14:05:39 zakim, mute me 14:05:41 zakim, mute me 14:05:44 zakim, mute me 14:05:45 zakim, mute me 14:05:50 jeffs should now be muted 14:05:52 francois should now be muted 14:05:54 rob should now be muted 14:05:56 jo should now be muted 14:05:58 + +03498429aaaa 14:06:04 ack me 14:06:17 zakim, aaaa is me 14:06:17 +nacho; got it 14:06:19 +??P37 14:06:29 zakim, ??P37 is yeliz 14:06:29 +yeliz; got it 14:06:42 zakim, pick a victim 14:06:42 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose jo 14:06:45 zakim, who's noisy? 14:06:51 zakim, nacho holds abel, jsmanrique, miguel 14:06:51 +abel, jsmanrique, miguel; got it 14:06:55 dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jo (57%), adam (12%), nacho (26%) 14:07:01 zakim, pick a victim 14:07:01 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Bryan_Sullivan 14:07:20 Scribe: Bryan 14:07:23 ScribeNick: Bryan 14:07:44 Topic: Administration 14:08:02 ack me 14:09:14 Dom: group has been rechartered; before 45 days AC reps need to make recommittment to membership in the group. 14:09:40 Topic: CSS Marquee Spec 14:10:05 q+ to explain the context of the request 14:10:09 ack me 14:10:10 dom, you wanted to explain the context of the request 14:10:11 ack d 14:10:57 Dom: the reason for comments needed is that CSS Marquee is part of CSS Mobile Profile. 14:11:14 -jeffs 14:11:29 SeanP has joined #bpwg 14:11:39 +jeffs 14:11:45 Topic: Widgets LCWD 14:12:20 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0098.html Thread on Widgets Requirements 14:12:53 +SeanP 14:13:18 jo: bryan can you step us through this? 14:13:41 bryan: attempted to make comments in the style of their document 14:13:44 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0065.html Initial comments by Bryan on Widgets 14:13:50 ... to make it easier for them 14:14:20 zakim, mute me 14:14:20 jeffs should now be muted 14:14:30 ... requirements are good and comprehensive - only a few things that I would add 14:15:12 ... per the email, things about declarations in the manifest would be good to have more descriptive information as well 14:15:33 ... what they support, what they are and what they need 14:16:12 ... so I think disclosure is important 14:17:24 jo: worried that putting comments in suggested text form 14:17:33 bryan: yes, but I am now a member of the group 14:17:44 jo: Oh that makes a difference 14:18:40 zakim, who is making noise? 14:18:50 jeffs, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jo (63%), adam (19%), Drooks (19%), nacho (15%), yeliz (55%) 14:18:55 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Bryan to weave together jo's and his own comments as put on list and submit them as BP response to the requirements doc 14:19:15 +1 14:19:16 +1 14:19:20 (note that the deadline is tomorrow) 14:19:20 +1 14:19:21 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Bryan to weave together jo's and his own comments as put on list and submit them as BP response to the Widgets requirements doc 14:19:26 +1 14:19:39 RESOLUTION: Bryan to weave together jo's and his own comments as put on list and submit them as BP response to the Widgets requirements doc 14:20:47 Topic: Shared Web Experiences / Accessibility Doc 14:21:10 zakim, unmute me 14:21:10 francois should no longer be muted 14:21:17 Jo: anything to do other than review/comment? 14:21:28 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/experiences Shared Web Experiences: Barriers Common to Mobile Device Users and People with Disabilities. 14:22:24 Francois: no, that's sufficient. We all should review the article and someone could merge the comments. 14:22:42 Jo: will let them know this may take a while. 14:22:59 ACTION: Jo to respond to Shawn to say we are looking at it and will get back to them when we get back from the break 14:22:59 Created ACTION-822 - Respond to Shawn to say we are looking at it and will get back to them when we get back from the break [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-08-07]. 14:24:52 Topic: CT Task Force Report 14:25:14 Yeliz: requests direct comments on common aspects of mobile experience related to accessiblity 14:25:50 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0088.html Latest CT Draft 14:26:35 Francois: expect to get CT document to last call very soon. a couple things needing discussion: the extension of last call to Sept 16 (suggested), and 14:26:55 zakim, unmute me 14:26:55 jeffs should no longer be muted 14:27:21 Francois: the list of working groups we need to inform about the last call. 14:27:24 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0091.html list of WG that should review CT Guidelines 14:27:33 Jo: any action for the group? 14:28:20 Francois: we can use the official liason through the Hypertext Working Group, or a direct contact. 14:28:35 q+ 14:28:42 ack Brq 14:28:43 ack Br 14:29:45 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: BPWG requests transition of current Draft 1o of the Content Transformation Guidelines with a Last Call Comment period ending Tuesday September 16 14:29:57 Bryan: OMA would be interested since there are transformation-related work items there. 14:30:06 +1 14:30:09 +1 14:30:12 +1 14:30:19 +1 14:30:33 +1 14:30:38 +1 14:30:38 +1 14:30:54 °1 14:30:59 s/°/+/ 14:31:33 RESOLUTION: BPWG requests transition of current Draft 1o of the Content Transformation Guidelines with a Last Call Comment period ending Tuesday September 16 14:31:54 q+ to thank captain Jo for piloting the ship so well through wild waters 14:32:09 ack r 14:32:10 rob, you wanted to thank captain Jo for piloting the ship so well through wild waters 14:32:13 +1 14:33:54 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0095.html proposed BP comments on TAG finding on linking alternate representations 14:34:04 Jo: action 703 text is ready for 2.2.2; proposed the text goes into the last call if there are no comments to the proposed text on the list. 14:34:26 +1 14:34:38 s/2.2.2;/ISSUE-222 14:34:42 let's take now a resolution that pending any comments, the proposed comments will be sent as is 14:35:02 Francois: expects to have some comments, suggest to wait a week for comments 14:35:06 zakim, mute me 14:35:06 rob should now be muted 14:35:16 zakim, mute yeliz 14:35:16 yeliz should now be muted 14:35:48 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Text proposed by Jo for ISSUE-222 to be forwarded to TAG following a week's further discussion on list 14:36:15 +1 14:36:18 ack me 14:36:32 +1 14:36:34 +1 14:36:36 +1 14:36:38 +1 14:36:40 +1 14:36:47 RESOLUTION: Text proposed by Jo for ISSUE-222 to be forwarded to TAG following a week's further discussion on list 14:36:56 +1 14:37:14 Jo: that should be all the issues taken care of 14:37:38 [all open issues relating to CT now dealt with] 14:37:52 Francois: we can keep the TF open thru early Sept depending upon the comments received 14:38:06 Topic: Checker TF 14:38:23 zakim, mute me 14:38:23 jo should now be muted 14:38:45 q+ 14:38:49 ack f 14:39:28 ack me 14:39:31 Abel: good progress in the last week; issues resolved, and ready to release a new version 14:39:55 Francois: just one issue left, feel we are ready for version 1 release. 14:40:45 Jo: we had earlier resolved that checker could proceed as needed, but we can take another resolution now also 14:40:52 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Based on the report from the Checker TF on the completion of the test suite and the resolution of the pending bugs, the BPWG happily resolves to release version 1.0 of the mobileOK checker 14:41:18 +1 14:41:19 +1 14:41:24 +1 14:41:54 +1 14:41:59 +1 14:42:12 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Based on the report from the Checker TF on the completion of the test suite and the resolution of the pending bugs, the BPWG happily resolves to release version 1.0 of the mobileOK checker. The mobileOK checker fulfills the CR exit criterion: "existence of a checker that checks each aspect of each test specified in this document" 14:42:23 miguel votes +1 :) he is not on IRC 14:42:29 +1 14:42:34 +1 14:42:35 +1 14:42:36 +1 14:42:37 +1 14:42:40 +1 14:42:41 +1 14:42:42 +1 14:42:55 +1 14:43:13 [jo notes the hard work put in by "The musketeers" and by Dom and Francois, and thanks them for that] 14:43:28 RESOLUTION: Based on the report from the Checker TF on the completion of the test suite and the resolution of the pending bugs, the BPWG happily resolves to release version 1.0 of the mobileOK checker. The mobileOK checker fulfills the CR exit criterion: "existence of a checker that checks each aspect of each test specified in this document" 14:43:49 Topic: MWABP 14:44:19 Jo: we are waiting for comments on the FPWD, right? 14:44:37 Francois: no comments so far, we are still waiting. 14:45:02 Jo: next steps? 14:45:27 Adam: if we get another round of BP suggestions, we can roll them in. 14:47:13 Bryan: will try to reestablish the context by new contributions, per my emails 14:47:17 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products/14 7 open issues on BP2 14:47:29 ACTION: Adam to stimulate another round of discussion on what is missing from BP-2 FPWD 14:47:29 Created ACTION-823 - Stimulate another round of discussion on what is missing from BP-2 FPWD [on Adam Connors - due 2008-08-07]. 14:47:45 Jo: suggests that we also capture the points from the email conversation between Kai and Bryan 14:47:52 ACTION: Bryan to raise issues on things he's not happy about, especially personalisation 14:47:52 Created ACTION-824 - Raise issues on things he's not happy about, especially personalisation [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2008-08-07]. 14:48:16 re input for BP2, I sent http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0000.html 14:48:24 Topic: mobileOK Scheme 14:49:09 Kai has joined #bpwg 14:49:53 q+ 14:49:59 ack me 14:50:07 Jo: MobileOK is a bit stuck; Chaals is not around right now, we need someone to offer editorial effort in support in the meantime 14:50:46 +Kai 14:50:57 Dom: we should give him a couple more weeks, then chair can nominate a new editor as needed 14:51:55 Jo: we need to move quickly to wrap up this with a proposed text 14:52:02 noted with gratitude Phil Archer's offer to take offer/contribute text and request him to continue with that as a "proposed text" what we short out who is the official editor 14:52:56 Topic: BP 1.5 14:53:28 q+ to comment on ISSUE-266 14:53:31 ISSUE-266? 14:53:31 ISSUE-266 -- Which mobileOK Pro tests needs the DDC and which don't? -- OPEN 14:53:31 http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/266 14:53:48 Kai: sent out a new version of the document; one issue about usage of DDC. 14:54:12 -> http://www.w3.org/mid/398533C370C23441981074C456AA3BDD031DB90C@QEO00226.de.t-online.corp Kai's proposal to close ISSUE-266 14:54:36 q? 14:54:46 ack d 14:54:47 ack me 14:54:48 dom, you wanted to comment on ISSUE-266 14:54:50 Jo: proposal to close 266 as not relevant anymore? 14:55:46 Dom: agree that some of the issues are not relevant, 266 may still be relevant by needing to indicate which tests rely upon the DDC, being a useful thing to know. 14:56:27 Kai: there are some tests that need the DDC, and we can/do make the distinction where needed. 14:56:35 +jo.a 14:56:38 -jo 14:57:08 Dom: sees the point, and we can close the issue 14:57:31 close ISSUE-266 14:57:43 +1 14:57:55 [I think the formalities aspect can be dealt with once we decide to go forward with the publication] 14:57:58 Kai: since the Mobile OK Pro is a note, I need to know what template to use 14:58:14 Jo: we will come back to that after looking at the draft 14:58:17 close ISSUE-266 14:58:21 trackbot, close ISSUE-266 14:58:21 Sorry, dom, I don't understand 'trackbot, close ISSUE-266'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 14:58:32 ISSUE-266 closed 14:58:39 zakim, close ISSUE-266 14:58:39 I don't understand 'close ISSUE-266', jeffs 14:59:18 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/pendingreview 7 actions in pending review 14:59:22 q+ 14:59:23 ack me 14:59:59 I have closed ISSUE-266 15:00:04 Topic: ISSUEs and ACTIONs 15:00:16 [special thanks to Dom for this Agendum] 15:00:36 ACTION-703? 15:00:36 ACTION-703 -- Jo Rabin to draft a communication with the TAG based on ISSUE-222 -- due 2008-03-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:00:36 http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/703 15:01:03 ack me 15:01:16 close ACTION-703 15:01:16 ACTION-703 Draft a communication with the TAG based on ISSUE-222 closed 15:01:32 ACTION: Jo to send final draft ref ISSUE-222 in 1 week 15:01:32 Created ACTION-825 - Send final draft ref ISSUE-222 in 1 week [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-08-07]. 15:01:56 ACTION-785? 15:01:56 ACTION-785 -- Kai Scheppe to check the personalization section for specific parts that seem to imply combination of personal information with usage patterns -- due 2008-06-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:01:56 http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/785 15:02:17 close ACTION-785 15:02:17 ACTION-785 Check the personalization section for specific parts that seem to imply combination of personal information with usage patterns closed 15:02:28 ACTION-786? 15:02:28 ACTION-786 -- Jo Rabin to draft wording for an appendix that identifies the aggregators and operator roles that are different in the mobile ecosystem. -- due 2008-06-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:02:28 http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/786 15:03:44 ACTION-792? 15:03:44 ACTION-792 -- Abel Rionda to propose some text on SVG -- due 2008-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:03:44 http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/792 15:04:10 ACTION-793? 15:04:10 ACTION-793 -- Kai Scheppe to work with Scott to produce proposed text on caching that goes beyond BP 1 -- due 2008-06-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:04:10 http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/793 15:04:17 ACTION-798? 15:04:17 ACTION-798 -- Kai Scheppe to work proposed changes into the mobileOK Pro document and then turn it over to the group -- due 2008-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:04:17 http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/798 15:04:58 ACTION-809? 15:05:02 ACTION-809 -- François Daoust to prepare official responses to the two comments. -- due 2008-07-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:05:02 http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/809 15:05:10 close ACTION-798 15:05:10 ACTION-798 Work proposed changes into the mobileOK Pro document and then turn it over to the group closed 15:05:22 close ACTION-809 15:05:22 ACTION-809 Prepare official responses to the two comments. closed 15:05:36 q+ 15:05:37 Topic: AOB 15:06:56 ack f 15:07:48 Francois: there are some sites no longer passing Mobile OK, we should give them a chance to fix it. 15:08:27 Francois: the exclusion period ends Aug 9th and we can't move forward before then, so the sites have a chance to get fixed 15:08:28 francois notes that the call for exclusions is still open on mobileOK Basic Tests, till 9 Aug, can move to PR once that is complete and the sties that were mobileOK become so again 15:09:24 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: There will be no call on Thursday August 7th, therefore the next call will be Thursday August 28th. 15:09:29 +1 15:09:32 +1 15:09:33 +1 15:09:36 +1 15:09:36 +1 15:09:37 Jo: we have a group recommendation in BP1, three cheers! 15:09:38 + 15:09:38 +10 15:09:43 +1 15:09:49 +1 15:09:50 +1 15:10:01 RESOLUTION: There will be no call on Thursday August 7th, therefore the next call will be Thursday August 28th. 15:10:12 happy vacation 15:10:13 -dom 15:10:17 -- adjourned -- 15:10:18 -Bryan_Sullivan 15:10:19 bye 15:10:21 -francois 15:10:24 bye 15:10:25 -jo.a 15:10:27 -adam 15:10:31 -SeanP 15:10:33 -yeliz 15:10:39 -Kai 15:10:41 -rob 15:10:43 -jeffs 15:10:46 rob has left #bpwg 15:10:48 abel has left #bpwg 15:10:49 -nacho 15:11:00 nacho has left #bpwg 15:11:08 -Drooks 15:11:10 MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended 15:11:12 Attendees were jeffs, francois, jo, rob, dom, Bryan_Sullivan, adam, Drooks, +03498429aaaa, yeliz, abel, jsmanrique, miguel, SeanP, Kai 15:11:29 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:11:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html francois 15:13:19 i/jo: bryan can/ScribeNick: jo/ 15:13:44 i/Topic: Shared Web/ScribeNick: Bryan/ 15:13:45 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:13:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html francois 15:32:04 hey, francois 15:32:39 RRSAgent, bye 15:32:39 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-bpwg-actions.rdf : 15:32:39 ACTION: Jo to respond to Shawn to say we are looking at it and will get back to them when we get back from the break [1] 15:32:39 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-bpwg-irc#T14-22-59 15:32:39 ACTION: Adam to stimulate another round of discussion on what is missing from BP-2 FPWD [2] 15:32:39 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-bpwg-irc#T14-47-29 15:32:39 ACTION: Bryan to raise issues on things he's not happy about, especially personalisation [3] 15:32:39 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-bpwg-irc#T14-47-52 15:32:39 ACTION: Jo to send final draft ref ISSUE-222 in 1 week [4] 15:32:39 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-bpwg-irc#T15-01-32 15:32:41 Zakim, bye 15:32:41 Zakim has left #bpwg 15:32:44 yes, jo? 15:32:56 oops :-) I just updates the readme at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2007/mobileok-ref/