10:30:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
10:30:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-irc
10:30:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
10:30:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
10:30:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:30:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start now
10:30:27 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:30:27 <trackbot> Date: 17 July 2008
10:30:39 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started
10:30:45 <Zakim> +??P0
10:30:48 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
10:30:51 <ed_> Zakim, ??P0 is me
10:30:51 <Zakim> +ed_; got it
10:31:18 <Zakim> +??P4
10:31:21 <heycam> Zakim, ??P4 is me
10:31:21 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
10:31:56 <Zakim> +??P5
10:32:02 <aemmons> zakim, ??p5 is me
10:32:02 <Zakim> +aemmons; got it
10:34:04 <ed_> Zakim, who's here?
10:34:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ed_, Doug_Schepers, heycam, aemmons
10:34:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, aemmons, ed_, shepazu, heycam, anthony, ed_work, trackbot
10:34:50 <aemmons> Scribe: Andrew Emmons
10:35:07 <aemmons> Chair: Erik
10:35:12 <ed_> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0047.html
10:35:17 <aemmons> Regrets: Anthony
10:36:21 <aemmons> Topic: SVGTextContentElement errata (ISSUE-2008)
10:37:13 <aemmons> ED: It was changed slightly to be more similar to selecet substring
10:37:22 <aemmons> ED: Not exactly what Hixie was asking for
10:38:06 <shepazu> agenda+ test suite update
10:38:06 <aemmons> ED: We have 3 errata items, you're saying they are done already?
10:38:07 <ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement-characters
10:38:30 <aemmons> CM: First one was adding the UTF-16 code unit language
10:39:18 <aemmons> ED: Looks OK
10:39:26 <aemmons> ED: I suggest we move it to closed
10:39:35 <ed_> s/closed/proposed/
10:39:51 <aemmons> DS: No objection
10:41:20 <aemmons> RESOLUTION: Will accept UTF-16 errata item for SVGTextContentElement, moved to proposed
10:41:31 <ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement-getnumberofchars
10:41:41 <aemmons> ED: Next is getNumberOfChars erratum
10:42:10 <aemmons> CM: Was an existing one, took reference out because it is handled by the general paragraph in the previous errata
10:42:22 <aemmons> ED: Ok
10:42:48 <aemmons> CM: Brought it back from proposed for this change
10:43:01 <aemmons> ED: Looks good, any objections?
10:43:18 <aemmons> DS: No
10:43:46 <aemmons> RESOLUTION: Will move getNUmberofChars erratum back to proposed
10:43:49 <ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications
10:44:26 <aemmons> CM: I added a bit where it mentions getting half of a pair
10:44:29 <aemmons> ED: Looks ok
10:44:39 <aemmons> ED: That was the only change you made?
10:44:40 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0030.html
10:44:41 <aemmons> CM: Yes
10:44:47 <aemmons> ED: I made other changes before that
10:45:01 <aemmons> ED: There were comments on this
10:45:21 <aemmons> ED: Does it clamp or give an exception
10:45:30 <aemmons> ED: Was changed before to not throw an exception
10:46:03 <aemmons> ED: But, with the current wording you can get an exception in a given case
10:46:14 <aemmons> DS: I did not find that case compelling
10:46:16 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0038.html
10:46:28 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0040.html
10:46:36 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0041.html
10:46:55 <aemmons> CM: Now, always throwing unless you start invalid and run off the end
10:47:09 <aemmons> ED: Could make a special case for 0 as the number of characters
10:47:24 <aemmons> CM: I can't see it being more consistent one way or another
10:48:50 <aemmons> CM: Can't think of a good reason whyit would be either way in particular
10:49:07 <Zakim> +??P6
10:49:38 <aemmons> ED: If you do select substring you really want to know a selection is made, a reason to have exception there
10:49:48 <aemmons> ED: But getSubString you're really expecting a value back
10:51:07 <shepazu> Zakim, + is jwatt
10:51:07 <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+'
10:51:25 <shepazu> Zakim, +??P6 is jwatt
10:51:25 <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+??P6'
10:51:54 <aemmons> ED: I would be more in favor of not throwing an exception, but also do not feel it is that critical, could leave as is
10:52:34 <aemmons> ED: So, we'll leave this one open for more feedback/thought by the group
10:53:15 <jwatt> jwatt has joined #svg
10:53:26 <heycam> Zakim, ??P6 is jwatt
10:53:26 <Zakim> +jwatt; got it
10:54:05 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda
10:54:15 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P6 is jwatt
10:54:15 <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as jwatt, shepazu
10:54:21 <shepazu> oops
10:56:03 <shepazu> Issue: find sane values for getSubStringLength and selectSubString
10:56:03 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2017 - Find sane values for getSubStringLength and selectSubString ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2017/edit .
11:01:12 <aemmons> ACTION: CM to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed
11:01:12 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - CM
11:01:12 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. charles, cmccorma)
11:01:25 <aemmons> ACTION: Heycam to move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed
11:01:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2101 - Move first two SVGTextContentElement errata to proposed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-24].
11:01:47 <ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#mention-live-values
11:01:56 <aemmons> Topic: SVGTransformList.consolidate, and clarifications of insertItemBefore and replaceItem
11:02:08 <aemmons> ED: Is an old one
11:02:53 <aemmons> ED: I made this clarification based on feedback by JS
11:03:10 <aemmons> ED: Have a test case
11:03:20 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/ua-tests/insertItemBefore.svg
11:03:45 <aemmons> ED: insertItemBefore has the same issue
11:04:45 <ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/test-cases/consolidate.svg
11:05:20 <aemmons> ED: Second change,consolidate returns a new object
11:06:56 <aemmons> ED: Any problems with moving this to proposed?
11:07:46 <aemmons> RESOLUTION: Will move SVGTransformList.consolidate, and clarifications of insertItemBefore and replaceItem errata to proposed
11:08:33 <ed_> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix
11:08:39 <aemmons> Topic: Clarify liveness of setMatrix and createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods
11:08:52 <aemmons> ED: Are these live or not?
11:09:07 <aemmons> ED: Partially related to the previous one
11:11:32 <aemmons> ED: DOes this look ok?
11:12:11 <aemmons> ED: Proposed resolution is to just copy the values, do not adopt SVGMatrix object
11:12:19 <aemmons> ED: Robert seemed OK with this change
11:12:28 <aemmons> ED: All implementations I tested behaved this way
11:12:52 <aemmons> CM: SOunds good
11:13:22 <aemmons> RESOLUTION: Move Clarify liveness of setMatrix and createSVGTransformFromMatrix methods errata to proposed
11:14:23 <aemmons> Topic: Timeline for 1.1SE publication/review (and move of errata into public cvs)
11:15:01 <aemmons> ED: I want to get the spec out that incorporates all of the errata - to have it out of they way to move on to other things
11:15:06 <aemmons> DS: Sounds like a good plan
11:15:16 <aemmons> DS: What timeline do you think is reasonable
11:15:47 <aemmons> ED: Anthony has done part of this work already, wanted to get status
11:15:49 <ed_> ACTION: Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed
11:15:49 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Move
11:16:01 <ed_> ACTION: ed to Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed
11:16:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2102 - Move the setmatrix_createsvgtransformfrommatrix and mention-live-values to proposed [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-24].
11:16:04 <aemmons> DS: Perhaps move to Tuesday?
11:16:26 <aemmons> DS: Would be nice for SVG Open
11:20:40 <aemmons> Topic: SVG in HTML feedback
11:21:02 <aemmons> ED: We have some feedback already
11:21:11 <aemmons> ED: I would say it is fairly positive
11:21:14 <aemmons> DS: Fairly
11:21:25 <aemmons> ED: Are comments, some parts not perfect, some wrong, etc
11:21:33 <aemmons> ED: I have made some update to the proposal
11:21:38 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html
11:22:12 <aemmons> ED: This was raised in the bug tracker for HTML WG
11:22:20 <aemmons> ED: Not sure if there is group discussion yet
11:22:51 <aemmons> DS: They do not typically have discussions at this level
11:23:05 <aemmons> DS: Usually not low level stuff
11:23:58 <aemmons> DS: My concern is that - either no discussion happens and Hixie can do what he wants or,
11:24:27 <aemmons> DS: ( done in a way that is not in the spirit of the proposal )
11:24:46 <aemmons> DS: Or, delays and does nothing and people implement towards that
11:24:54 <aemmons> DS: Which has happened already
11:25:32 <aemmons> AE: Which is why we watned it out of an editors draft in the first place
11:27:03 <aemmons> DS: We need to be pro-active to make sure it is handled in a timely fashion so that the final proposal acceptable by the HTML WG is implemented, not the commented out previous proposal
11:27:24 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jul/0197.html
11:27:37 <aemmons> DS: It is interesting - an e-mail by Chris Wilson regarding this
11:29:17 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html
11:29:24 <aemmons> ED: If we can have a look at the change log for the proposal
11:29:31 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.11&r2=1.12&f=h
11:30:07 <aemmons> ED: One comment from JS, I now defined SVG previx on SVG root element
11:30:14 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.12&r2=1.13&f=h
11:30:37 <aemmons> ED: Next is feedback from implementer of previous proposal
11:30:41 <aemmons> ED: GOod feedback
11:31:24 <aemmons> ED: Took some of his comments and incorperated them into the proposal
11:33:03 <ed_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html.diff?r1=1.13&r2=1.14&f=h
11:33:08 <aemmons> ACTION: Erik to e-mail specific feedback responses and also to e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given links to live doc and diff
11:33:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2103 - E-mail specific feedback responses and also to e-mail new updated proposal to www and html lists, given links to live doc and diff [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-24].
11:33:57 <aemmons> ACTION: Doug to nag HTML WG about proposal
11:33:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2104 - Nag HTML WG about proposal [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-07-24].
11:36:12 <aemmons> Topic: Testsuite
11:36:24 <aemmons> ED: Saw a few tests created, good
11:36:29 <ed_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008JulSep/0046.html
11:36:33 <aemmons> ED: I went through scripting coverage a bit
11:36:41 <aemmons> ED: Added 1 test for listener element
11:36:58 <aemmons> ED: Testing that no special handling of listener element
11:40:06 <aemmons> ED: I will continue making tests in this area
11:40:11 <aemmons> ED: AE, you added a few?
11:41:08 <aemmons> AE: Yes, added a few progress event tests and a timer test. Will now work on runtime sync tests
11:41:56 <aemmons> DS: I added a draft of mine in CVS
11:42:10 <aemmons> CM: I added some SVGGlobal tests
11:42:26 <aemmons> CM: binaryToString one needs close attention
11:42:48 <aemmons> CM: ParseXML Batik's implementation is simple, matches what ASV used to do
11:43:17 <aemmons> CM: Tests tricky XML  1.1 stuff as well
11:43:43 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/mid/20080717004454.GA10624@arc.mcc.id.au
11:44:31 <aemmons> AE: Your suggestion sounds reasonable
11:45:29 <aemmons> ACTION: Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used
11:45:29 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Update
11:45:37 <aemmons> ACTION: Cameron Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used
11:45:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2105 - Update stringToBinary to add ENCODING_ERR when invalid UTF-16 DOMString is used [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-24].
11:46:26 <aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage
11:50:08 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-220-t.svg and http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-230-t.svg
11:50:23 <aemmons> DS: One of my tests - I would like to discuss
11:50:35 <aemmons> DS: CM had written a test for textEvent
11:50:51 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/udom-event-207-t.svg 
11:51:03 <aemmons> DS: I made 220 and 230 to fill in the gaps
11:52:00 <aemmons> DS: WIth this, press SHIFT key, claims it passes but not quite correct
11:52:44 <aemmons> DS: textInput not just keyboard - voice, clipboard could use text
11:52:49 <aemmons> DS: keyboard is different
11:52:56 <aemmons> CM: I'd say this is a bug in Batik
11:53:07 <aemmons> DS: We should specify that it is not a keyboard thing
11:53:21 <aemmons> DS: Should only say it is character values
11:53:27 <aemmons> DS: How would you test for that?
11:54:00 <aemmons> DS: perhaps check all range of characters
11:54:14 <aemmons> CM: Tough thing to test, yes
11:54:33 <aemmons> DS: Good enough as is for a positive test, not a good negative test
11:54:58 <aemmons> CM: Not sure it is possible to test an event is not sent if no text is available
11:56:11 <aemmons> AE: Could update the pass criteria
11:56:16 <aemmons> CM: Yes
11:56:18 <aemmons> DS: Yes
11:56:24 <aemmons> DS: Add a second pass criteria
11:56:36 <ed_> DOMCharacterDataModified
11:57:54 <ed_> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-MutationEvent
11:58:12 <aemmons> DS: I should point out what the relationship is
12:03:29 <Zakim> -ed_
12:03:30 <Zakim> -heycam
12:03:32 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
12:03:34 <Zakim> -aemmons
12:03:44 <heycam> RRSAgent, make minutes
12:03:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-svg-minutes.html heycam
12:03:47 <Zakim> -jwatt
12:03:48 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended
12:03:50 <Zakim> Attendees were Doug_Schepers, ed_, heycam, aemmons, jwatt
12:05:00 <shepazu> Issue: create textInput test to make sure only characters (not all keyboard events) are input
12:05:00 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2018 - Create textInput test to make sure only characters (not all keyboard events) are input ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2018/edit .
12:05:39 <shepazu> Issue: create keyIdentifier test to make sure the right values are reported
12:05:39 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2019 - Create keyIdentifier test to make sure the right values are reported ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2019/edit .
12:07:13 <shepazu> Issue: Create keyIdentifier test to make sure that keydown events are still sent when another key is pressed 
12:07:13 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2020 - Create keyIdentifier test to make sure that keydown events are still sent when another key is pressed  ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2020/edit .
12:19:09 <shepazu> heycam: you there?
12:47:49 <heycam> shepazu, just about to go to bed
12:47:57 <shepazu> ok
12:48:08 <heycam> i'll be online tmr
12:48:12 <heycam> night
12:48:16 <shepazu> nn
13:57:31 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg