13:41:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:41:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-irc
13:41:44 <rmerric> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0010.html
13:42:10 <rmerric> Zakim, this will be xhtml2
13:42:10 <Zakim> ok, rmerric; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:42:37 <rmerric> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:43:07 <Roland> Roland has joined #xhtml
13:43:33 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
13:43:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
13:43:43 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public
13:44:00 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:44:36 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:44:38 <Zakim> +McCarron
13:44:47 <ShaneM> zakim, McCarron is ShaneM
13:44:47 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
13:45:06 <Zakim> +Roland
13:45:08 <Zakim> -Roland
13:45:08 <Zakim> +Roland
13:45:45 <Zakim> +Tina
13:46:46 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
13:48:21 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:48:26 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:48:26 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:48:27 <Zakim> +Steven
13:49:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:49:40 <oedipus> zakim, IPcaller is alessio
13:49:40 <Zakim> +alessio; got it
13:50:06 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
13:50:30 <oedipus> chair: Roland Merrick
13:50:38 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
13:50:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
13:51:31 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
13:51:36 <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus
13:51:39 <oedipus> TOPIC: Reviews
13:51:56 <oedipus> RM: TAG finding on passwords in clear; Shane and Tina investigated
13:52:11 <oedipus> SM: have not gotten to it
13:52:17 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
13:52:25 <oedipus> TH: re-read, but not found any other comments than those i made during last call
13:52:41 <oedipus> s/during last call/during the last WG call
13:52:50 <oedipus> SM: will coordinate response with TH
13:53:18 <oedipus> RM: XSD - identified MarkB as best reviewer, haven't heard back from him; hasn't been able to attend calls in a while
13:53:29 <oedipus> RM: allowing comments until 1 september 2008
13:53:47 <oedipus> TOPIC: CURIE Syntax
13:53:54 <oedipus> RM: transition progress?
13:54:19 <oedipus> SP: sent transition req, but no reply; will follow up again
13:54:53 <oedipus> RM: wonder why we have such a lag-time everytime we put in a transition req
13:56:01 <oedipus> RM: holiday in US may have gummed things up temporarily
13:56:42 <oedipus> SP: on vacation until middle of next week after that, working half time
13:56:50 <oedipus> RM: good at least to have some explanation on that
13:57:09 <oedipus> TOPIC: How HTML5 relates to XHTML
13:57:19 <oedipus> SP: had delays will try and get out tomorrow morning
13:57:25 <oedipus> TOPIC: Role transition to CR
13:57:28 <oedipus> RM: are we ready?
13:57:37 <oedipus> SM: ready
13:58:05 <oedipus> proposed RESOLVED: request transition Role Module for to CR
13:58:12 <oedipus> SP: +1
13:58:14 <ShaneM> +1
13:58:16 <oedipus> GJR: +1
13:58:49 <oedipus> proposed RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR
13:58:57 <oedipus> Alessio: +1
13:59:06 <Tina> +1
13:59:10 <oedipus> GJR: interested in shane's comment
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13:59:34 <oedipus> SP: moment to address testing Role attribute
14:00:00 <oedipus> GJR: is ARIA proof-of-concept - have partial implementations, but not the type we really want
14:01:05 <oedipus> SM: ARIA spec doesn't use Role module - so wrong technically
14:01:17 <oedipus> SM: ARIA using Role module in way XHTML2 hasn't specified
14:01:40 <oedipus> GJR: but ARIA is derived from role, even if it isn't implemented as part of Role module
14:02:10 <oedipus> SP: can show that implementation used Role attribute to achieve ARIA - hook to hang things off of, and ARIA does that, by using extensibility mechanism
14:02:28 <oedipus> RM: ARIA doesn't say you can't associate with Role
14:02:40 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
14:03:11 <oedipus> SM: yes, but saying browser x uses Role, needs to be actually using Role as defined
14:03:21 <oedipus> SP: ARIA uses rules of extensibility for Role
14:03:42 <oedipus> SP: things that use Role in ways consistent with what Role intended to do - need 2 implementations
14:04:08 <oedipus> SP: if show @class being used, would show 2 CSS implementations that select off class; think can do similar with Role
14:04:28 <oedipus> Alessio: DOM implementation identifying elements by Role - could be proof of application
14:04:35 <oedipus> SM: wrote such a javascript function
14:05:03 <oedipus> SP: mozilla uses role attribute, we have a javascript to handle Role, can tick implementation boxes - only need to prove that can be implemented
14:05:21 <oedipus> RM: conformance test? 
14:05:25 <oedipus> SM: nothing to conform to
14:05:57 <oedipus> RM: only need to show that role attribute is picked up by UA so is available for whatever purpose one needs
14:06:33 <oedipus> TH: new version of quality testing tool tests for role usage - doesn't do anything with them, but flag whether present or not
14:07:04 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
14:07:29 <oedipus> SM: Tina that is valuable - application using Role attribute satisfies criteria; in past test has been - is it used in ML; not in any ML
14:08:19 <oedipus> SP: 1 reason argued in past was all modules things tghat had been implemented; no new conformance criteria; creating module here and want ML that uses it, but can show semantics are being used
14:08:42 <oedipus> SP: close to way @class works; no pure semantics; can't test Role on its own, but can show it being used in other specificiations and implementations
14:09:28 <oedipus> SP: need to state CR exit criteria; Role in and of itself doesn't require processing because hook for processing, but during CR will show being used in various pieces of software
14:10:06 <oedipus> GJR: quote from ARIA spec: "2.1.  WAI-ARIA Roles
14:10:06 <oedipus> An ARIA role is set on an element using the a role attribute similar to the one defined in the XHTML Role Attribute Module [XHTML-ROLES].
14:10:43 <oedipus> GJR: didn't catch "similar"
14:11:25 <oedipus> ACTION: Gregory - ask PFWG why "similar" inserted into 2.1 of ARIA spec and answser to ShaneM's query about Role and ARIA
14:11:33 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
14:11:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:12:39 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML Basic 1.1 transition to PR
14:12:51 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/xhtml-m12n-11-implementation.html
14:13:22 <oedipus> SP: voting ends on 15 july - trying to drum up votes - IBM hasn't voted yet (nudge, nudge); neither have mobile people
14:14:58 <oedipus> SP: mobile best practices waiting for this so they can transition; can't ask for transition to rec until comments collected; asked if someone can take my role over for organizing transition; would write transition request and hand off to Francois Daoust; will probably take over team contact from me and request transition; will be on holiday 
14:16:10 <oedipus> SP: when voting ends on 15 july, will FD will transition - should be transitioned by second to last week of month
14:16:42 <oedipus> TOPIC: M12N transition: status
14:17:04 <oedipus> RM: Shane, have you worked with IanJ on new shortnames?
14:17:13 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-xhtml-minutes.html#action03
14:18:11 <oedipus> SM: issues with XML Schema RDFa which uses M12n 1.1
14:18:41 <oedipus> SM: made a few VERY minor changes to fix bug - not a normative change, just works around a bug to assist with validation
14:18:47 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-xhtml-minutes.html#action03
14:18:54 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/xhtml-m12n-11-implementation.html
14:18:59 <oedipus> SP: tested and works for me
14:19:15 <oedipus> SP: should test on IvanH's framework
14:19:52 <oedipus> SP: looking poor in terms of voting - voting ends 15 July 2008; need to solicit comments - please remind AC reps!!!
14:20:30 <oedipus> SP: Alessio, can you make sure IWG votes on M12n and Basic?
14:20:34 <oedipus> Alessio: will do 
14:20:44 <oedipus> SP: RM, please make sure IBM votes
14:21:07 <oedipus> SM: Sun Microsystems obvious candidate; 
14:21:10 <oedipus> SP: HP already voted
14:21:39 <oedipus> GJR: can get Steve Faulkner of paciello group (member institution) to comment form accessibility POV
14:22:01 <oedipus> SM: XForms - schema implementation, so votes would be good
14:23:08 <oedipus> s/comment form/vote citing
14:23:13 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
14:23:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:23:34 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/xhtmlmod11-2008/
14:26:14 <ShaneM> .me has not seen a response - could have missed it.  maybe only in the working group list?
14:28:03 <oedipus> next TOPIC: XHTML 1.1 SE status or RelaxNG and M12n
14:29:20 <oedipus> SM: when preparing comments from HTML WG would be good to mention in draft, explaining media type application+xml is "HTML5"
14:30:10 <ShaneM> s/HTML5/XHTML5/
14:30:18 <oedipus> s/explaining media type/explaining why media type
14:30:58 <Tina> Steven: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#html-vs
14:31:23 <oedipus> TOPIC: M12n redux
14:31:25 <Steven> thanks
14:32:12 <oedipus> SM: problem with XML Schema - reminded why RelaxNG better way going forward; m12n architecture assumes certain things about how one will extend module; RDF extends module in way that isn't consistent
14:32:15 <oedipus> SP: really?
14:32:28 <oedipus> SM: introduces attributes that are already on other elements in existing modules
14:32:36 <oedipus> SP: @href everywhere issue
14:32:51 <oedipus> SM: avoided by not allowing @href everywhere
14:33:03 <oedipus> SM: problem is: can't define an attribute twice
14:33:25 <oedipus> SM: if defined exactly same way twice, schema processor should recognize the union, but it doesn't
14:33:37 <oedipus> SM: RelaxNG easily creates union; 
14:33:49 <oedipus> s/M12n redux/M12n and RelaxNG
14:33:56 <oedipus> SM: need to document this
14:34:09 <oedipus> SM: don't use module implementation when collision
14:34:50 <oedipus> SM: Link module - RDFa no longer contains link module - integrated in way that won't crash, which is legal (content model and how to extend and use subsets) but can't reuse this stuff
14:35:00 <oedipus> s/RDF extends/RDFa extends
14:35:35 <oedipus> SP: Schema should have forseen -- should be compatible with DTD and expect would perform union
14:35:53 <oedipus> SM: disappointing - strategies to accomodate such use, but didn't employ in basic def of module
14:36:02 <oedipus> SP: so req for future versions of M12n
14:36:24 <oedipus> SM: if define attribute groups for every single attribute on every element, could do binding, but that is an extreme remedy
14:36:50 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML 1.1 SE status
14:37:12 <oedipus> RM: what to do with 1.1 SE versus 1.2 with extra features; wating for 1.1 m12n completion?
14:37:18 <oedipus> SM: yes, just schema implementation stuff
14:37:28 <oedipus> SP: this is really a PER - nothing to argue about
14:37:34 <oedipus> SM: can't imagine there would be
14:38:14 <oedipus> SP: add @target to 1.1 - would prefer not - those who need/want to use will have impetus to adapt 1.2
14:38:20 <oedipus> SM: put nothing in 1.1
14:38:38 <oedipus> SP: makes easier to get through to say 1.1 is just 1.1 with schemas; changes will be in 1.2
14:38:42 <oedipus> RM: errata folded in?
14:38:45 <oedipus> SM: no errata
14:39:05 <oedipus> SP: isn't there something Anne VanK objected to because didn't make change
14:39:27 <oedipus> SM: ID versus IDREF - client side image map - can change in future ML, but can't break conformance
14:39:31 <oedipus> SP: so that's a 1.2 change
14:39:40 <oedipus> SM: right - notghing to do with 1.1 PER
14:39:52 <oedipus> RM: proposal for 1.2?
14:40:00 <oedipus> SP: need to agree which features to put in 1.2
14:40:13 <oedipus> RM: thought SP had action to create first draft (listed in tracker)
14:40:35 <oedipus> GJR: so we are NOT adding @target to 1.1, right?
14:40:43 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML2 Public Draft
14:40:53 <oedipus> SM: closing in on it - should be available relatively soon
14:41:04 <oedipus> RM: need XML Events 2 out the door?
14:41:12 <oedipus> SM: references it, but not dependent on it
14:41:25 <oedipus> RM: next call devote discussion on XML Events 2
14:42:10 <oedipus> RM: timing issue and a few others to make sure comfortable with new draft of XML Events 2 - don't need to change draft to control timing mechanisms; registering and deregistering listeners
14:42:21 <oedipus> TOPIC: Other Issues
14:42:28 <Zakim> -alessio
14:42:29 <oedipus> SP: away for the next 3 calls
14:42:40 <oedipus> RM: results of survey?
14:42:46 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32107/xhtml2summer08/results
14:43:16 <oedipus> SP: MarkB didn't reply
14:43:20 <oedipus> RM: alright into august
14:43:27 <oedipus> SP: will be back on 6 august
14:43:38 <oedipus> RM: will be away a month the following week
14:43:46 <oedipus> RM: no need to cancel for next 4 weeks
14:43:51 <oedipus> RM: other items?
14:44:00 <oedipus> ADJOURNED
14:44:07 <Zakim> -Steven
14:44:08 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
14:44:08 <Zakim> -ShaneM
14:44:09 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
14:44:09 <Zakim> -Roland
14:44:09 <Zakim> -Tina
14:44:10 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:44:12 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, Roland, Tina, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, alessio
14:44:19 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
14:44:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:50:58 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
14:55:23 <oedipus> roland and/or steven, we never formally adopted the proposed resolution: "request Role Module transition to CR" - should i correct in minutes?  can insert resolution
14:59:38 <oedipus> i/GJR: interested in shane's comment/RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR
14:59:44 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:07:25 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:07:50 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
15:07:50 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-actions.rdf :
15:07:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Gregory - ask PFWG why "similar" inserted into 2.1 of ARIA spec and answser to ShaneM's query about Role and ARIA [1]
15:07:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-irc#T14-11-25
15:21:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
15:21:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-irc
15:21:52 <oedipus> RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR
15:21:58 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
15:21:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:22:25 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
15:22:36 <oedipus> rrsagent, make logs public
15:22:39 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
15:22:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items