11:58:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pling
11:58:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc
11:58:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pling
11:59:00 <renato> zakim, list conferences
11:59:00 <Zakim> I see P3P_PLING()8:00AM active
11:59:01 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time is Team_W3M()8:00AM
11:59:25 <renato> this is P3P_PLING()8:00AM
12:00:09 <boabjohn> g'day from another window...will dial in shortly
12:00:48 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #pling
12:01:01 <rigo> rigo has joined #pling
12:03:16 <rigo> zakim, this is pling
12:03:16 <Zakim> ok, rigo; that matches P3P_PLING()8:00AM
12:03:32 <rigo> present+ Rigo
12:03:36 <rigo> present+ Ashok
12:03:42 <rigo> present+ Renato
12:03:47 <rigo> present+ Marco
12:05:33 <rigo> RRSAgent, please set log public
12:05:42 <rigo> present+ Christina
12:05:49 <rigo> present+ John
12:05:55 <rigo> present+ Hannes
12:07:24 <renato> last meeting action - Marco to look at how to indicate new updates to wiki more visible
12:08:32 <boabjohn> (lurking IRC only..no phone connect, sorry!)
12:09:20 <renato> See "recent changes" under the Navigation panel on the wiki
12:09:51 <rigo> scribenick: rigo
12:09:54 <rigo> scribe: rigo
12:10:03 <rigo> zakim, who is here?
12:10:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, [IPcaller], +358.504.87aaaa, ??P4, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.978.867.aabb
12:10:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see rigo, Zakim, RRSAgent, renato, christinatzivisko, boabjohn
12:10:18 <boabjohn> Hello.
12:10:40 <rigo> RI: reviewing wiki activity in last 4 weeks
12:10:55 <tlr> tlr has joined #pling
12:10:55 <Zakim> - +358.504.87aaaa
12:11:08 <tlr> zakim, who is on the phone?
12:11:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, [IPcaller], ??P4, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.978.867.aabb
12:11:11 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-skype
12:11:11 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
12:11:13 <Zakim> +Thomas
12:11:33 <Zakim> + +358.504.87aacc
12:12:17 <rigo> RW: swamped, have lots of interesting cases to write up
12:12:35 <rigo> zakim, aacc is Hannes
12:12:35 <Zakim> +Hannes; got it
12:12:43 <tlr> zakim, who is on the phone
12:12:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', tlr
12:12:54 <rigo> RI: any major additions to the wiki past 4 weeks
12:13:06 <rigo> RI: two new languages added
12:13:17 <tlr> PROTUNE
12:13:55 <tlr> sure
12:14:01 <tlr> ScribeNick: trl
12:14:04 <tlr> ScribeNick: tlr
12:14:14 <tlr> RW: PrimeLife deliverable
12:14:18 <tlr> ... about to be published ...
12:14:36 <tlr> ... contains lots of review of standards the project will try to address ...
12:14:40 <tlr> ... collection of policy languages ...
12:14:50 <tlr> ... have to see whether we have all of these in that list ...
12:14:58 <tlr> ... and also whether there are additions in the PrimeLife list ...
12:15:06 <tlr> RI: Analysis as well as just documenting?
12:15:13 <tlr> RW: Not a deep analysis
12:15:21 <tlr> ... just adds some explanation of what these do ...
12:15:27 <tlr> ... still lots of pages ...
12:15:36 <tlr> MCM: Description of successful use cases? pros/cons?
12:15:42 <tlr> RW: Good idea, but we haven't done that yet
12:15:53 <tlr> ... maybe if we ever come across implementation, let's add that to wiki ...
12:16:00 <tlr> HT: Think Implementation itself is nice ...
12:16:07 <tlr> ... deployment is the crucial part ...
12:16:17 <tlr> ... I worked on a specific protocol that's widely implemented ...
12:16:21 <tlr> ... but in fact not widely deployed ...
12:16:35 <tlr> RW: Interesting
12:16:38 <tlr> HT: Protocol is @@
12:16:48 <tlr> s/@@/diameter/
12:16:56 <tlr> ... it's a AAA protocol ...
12:17:01 <tlr> ... 26 implementations, but hardly any use ...
12:17:13 <tlr> ... implementations are interesting, but it doesn't help ..
12:17:21 <tlr> ... understand why things are not successful wrt deployment ...
12:17:35 <tlr> MCM: important to consider deployment
12:17:40 <tlr> HT: Hard to get by with that information about deployments
12:17:43 <tlr> RW: Hard work indeed.
12:18:00 <tlr> RI: Looking forward to PrimeLife report 
12:18:22 <tlr> MCM: Public deliverable?
12:18:27 <tlr> RW: In the loop for publication clearance
12:18:33 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #pling
12:18:49 <tlr> RI: </languages>
12:18:56 <tlr> RI: No new use cases added that I've seen.
12:18:59 <tlr> ... anything new from Marco?
12:19:05 <tlr> MCM: Haven't seen anything extremely different
12:19:22 <tlr> ... main driver is how to deal with multiple languages in different contexts ...
12:19:24 <tlr> ... big theme in HP ...
12:19:32 <tlr> ... talking to some of the business groups ...
12:19:37 <tlr> ... common context is heterogeneous ...
12:19:57 <tlr> ... environments with enforcement and decision points at different points of the stack ...
12:20:02 <tlr> ... conservative approach to change ...
12:20:29 <tlr> ... any compelling way to combine / compare different policies ...
12:20:31 <tlr> ... check for inconsistencies ...
12:20:36 <tlr> ... update consistently ...
12:20:42 <tlr> RI: Reviewing other sections of wiki, not much enw
12:20:44 <tlr> s/enw/new/
12:20:51 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
12:20:51 <Zakim> sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
12:21:01 <tlr> q+
12:21:06 <tlr> RW: What's PROTUNE about?
12:21:15 <tlr> q-
12:21:24 <tlr> RI: There's a link from the wiki. Don't know it in detail.
12:21:37 <tlr> RW: Picos?
12:21:48 <tlr> MCM: Trying to get people to join these calls, but conflict today.
12:22:04 <tlr> re PROTUNE: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Concrete_examples_given_in_Protune
12:22:15 <tlr> RW: share information on pling mailing list?
12:22:25 <tlr> -- scribe takes break --
12:23:22 <tlr> MCM: (PICOS summary)
12:23:35 <rigo> http://www.picos-project.eu/
12:26:38 <tlr> RI: Please update the wiki. If you make major changes, please alert the list.
12:26:42 <tlr> Topic: Liaisons
12:27:22 <tlr> RI: ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC 27 WG5?
12:27:29 <tlr> RW: Talked to convener two weeks ago.
12:27:51 <tlr> ... have to submit paper
12:28:43 <tlr> ... access to documents, excuse for publication of specs
12:28:49 <tlr> ... I'm tracking the action already.
12:29:07 <tlr> RI: PrimeLife?
12:29:15 <tlr> RW: I'd love to get Jan C on these calls. 
12:29:19 <tlr> ... tlr, bug him?
12:29:23 <tlr> ACTION: tlr to bug JanC
12:29:33 <tlr> RI: Concordia?
12:30:27 <tlr> TR: No news, sorry.
12:30:44 <tlr> MCM: Started by Liberty, interoperability for FIM
12:30:56 <renato> action: rigo liaison letter to SC27/Wg5
12:31:05 <tlr> MCM: Monitoring
12:31:17 <tlr> ... not sure contact needs to be created from scratch ...
12:31:26 <tlr> ... it's been launched by liberty alliance; purpose is to be independence ...
12:31:29 <tlr> ...  name says it all ...
12:32:15 <tlr> q+
12:32:27 <rigo> ack tlr
12:32:46 <tlr> TR: Maybe best to approach them in the context of broader conversation with Liberty.
12:33:51 <tlr> RI: ok, let's keep it on the back-burner
12:33:58 <tlr> ... anything else we should be looking at?
12:34:36 <tlr> RW: I saw something about ODRL and microformats...
12:34:49 <tlr> ... one of the chairs is a good liaison candidates ..
12:35:07 <tlr> ACTION: Renato to put in material re ODRL and microformat-representation
12:35:44 <tlr> RW: Negation in ODRL?
12:35:56 <tlr> RI: ODRL 2
12:36:02 <tlr> RW: How is it modelled?
12:36:28 <tlr> RI: actions, prohibitions, high-level
12:36:37 <tlr> ... modeling side, don't have the answer yet ...
12:37:07 <tlr> ... things have been a bit slow on ODRL front ...
12:37:18 <tlr> ... not getting much of a push from market or industry ...
12:37:21 <tlr> ... to put out v2 quickly ...
12:37:32 <tlr> RW: Understandable. 
12:37:44 <tlr> RI: Happy to report on ODRL here.
12:37:57 <tlr> ... anything else?
12:38:10 <tlr> MCM: infocard foundation as been created
12:38:42 <tlr> ... could be interesting to do liaison ...
12:38:50 <tlr> ... suspect exploration of policiese to handle infocards ...
12:38:57 <tlr> ... back-end management of infocards ...
12:39:16 <tlr> Topic: Events
12:39:26 <tlr> RI: f2f meeting proposal for TPAC 
12:39:29 <tlr> ... 23/24 October ...
12:39:37 <tlr> ... That's Thu/Fri of that week ...
12:39:40 <tlr> ... we have a room scheduled ...
12:39:48 <tlr> ... have to get back to them and say "yes, we want" ...
12:39:53 <tlr> ... (or "no") ...
12:40:03 <tlr> ... need to decide quickly whether to go ahead with f2f ...
12:40:29 <tlr> ... if it's not of interest, we should W3C that resource can be released ...
12:40:31 <tlr> RW: Understand RI won't be able to come?
12:40:35 <tlr> RI: 80% probability that I can come
12:40:39 <tlr> ... depends on external factors ...
12:40:41 <tlr> ... lookign reasonably well that I could make it ...
12:40:48 <tlr> ... issue is how many other people are here ...
12:40:58 <tlr> RW: Think one of the chairs should raise things on the mailing list ...
12:41:17 <tlr> ... TR and I will care for having people invited where needed, and all that ...
12:41:25 <tlr> ACTION: RI to poll group about TPAC attendance
12:41:38 <tlr> RW: Maybe raise in ac-forum?
12:42:06 <tlr> ... we can't issue another call for participation ...
12:42:09 <tlr> ... maybe also in chairs ...
12:42:17 <tlr> ... maybe meeting the experts might be useful for other groups ...
12:42:42 <tlr> RI: Happy to draft e-mail to ac-forum to highlight that ...
12:42:47 <tlr> RW: 95 subscribers on mailing list
12:42:57 <tlr> ... maybe we can get some feedback ...
12:43:23 <tlr> RI: Will send something soon.
12:43:26 <tlr> RW: Agenda important.
12:43:32 <tlr> RI: anything else on f2f?
12:43:46 <tlr> RI: Also, IEEE policy 2008
12:43:57 <tlr> ... to occur, has occured?
12:44:29 <tlr> MCM: I raised this point last time to ask if anybody here was there
12:44:43 <tlr> ... don't know that we've anything relevant ...
12:44:47 <tlr> RW: Maybe ask on mailing list?
12:44:49 <tlr> MCM: good idea
12:44:53 <tlr> RI: Interesting papers.
12:45:02 <renato> Paper from IEEE Policy <http://www.usukita.org/?q=node/183>
12:45:13 <tlr> topic: AOB
12:45:31 <tlr> ... the charter is extended through June 2009 ...
12:45:33 <tlr> ... thanks to Rigo ...
12:46:03 <tlr> RW: Meeting at barrier reef!
12:46:11 <tlr> ... preferably in winter ...
12:46:22 <tlr> RI: So, we're here for another year 
12:46:26 <tlr> ... any other other business
12:46:33 <boabjohn> Many apologies: more progress on usecases next meeting
12:46:41 <tlr> ... next meeting scheduled for @@ August
12:46:44 <tlr> ... same time ...
12:46:45 <rigo> 13
12:46:49 <tlr> s/@@/13/
12:46:54 <tlr> ... telco is scheduled monthly
12:47:13 <tlr> RI: adjourned
12:47:32 <Zakim> - +1.978.867.aabb
12:47:34 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
12:47:35 <Zakim> -??P0
12:47:36 <Zakim> -??P4
12:47:36 <Zakim> -Hannes
12:47:38 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
12:47:38 <Zakim> P3P_PLING()8:00AM has ended
12:47:39 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], +358.504.87aaaa, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.978.867.aabb, Thomas, +358.504.87aacc, Hannes
12:47:59 <rigo> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
12:47:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-minutes.html rigo
12:48:45 <rigo> RRSAgent, bye
12:48:45 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-actions.rdf :
12:48:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: tlr to bug JanC [1]
12:48:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc#T12-29-23
12:48:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: rigo liaison letter to SC27/Wg5 [2]
12:48:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc#T12-30-56
12:48:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Renato to put in material re ODRL and microformat-representation [3]
12:48:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc#T12-35-07
12:48:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: RI to poll group about TPAC attendance [4]
12:48:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc#T12-41-25
12:48:50 <rigo> zakim, bye
12:48:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pling