IRC log of pling on 2008-07-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:58:07 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #pling

11:58:07 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc

11:58:19 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #pling

11:59:00 [renato]

zakim, list conferences

11:59:00 [Zakim]

I see P3P_PLING()8:00AM active

11:59:01 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time is Team_W3M()8:00AM

11:59:25 [renato]

this is P3P_PLING()8:00AM

12:00:09 [boabjohn]

g'day from another window...will dial in shortly

12:00:48 [Ashok]

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12:01:01 [rigo]

rigo has joined #pling

12:03:16 [rigo]

zakim, this is pling

12:03:16 [Zakim]

ok, rigo; that matches P3P_PLING()8:00AM

12:03:32 [rigo]

present+ Rigo

12:03:36 [rigo]

present+ Ashok

12:03:42 [rigo]

present+ Renato

12:03:47 [rigo]

present+ Marco

12:05:33 [rigo]

RRSAgent, please set log public

12:05:42 [rigo]

present+ Christina

12:05:49 [rigo]

present+ John

12:05:55 [rigo]

present+ Hannes

12:07:24 [renato]

last meeting action - Marco to look at how to indicate new updates to wiki more visible

12:08:32 [boabjohn]

(lurking IRC only..no phone connect, sorry!)

12:09:20 [renato]

See "recent changes" under the Navigation panel on the wiki

12:09:51 [rigo]

scribenick: rigo

12:09:54 [rigo]

scribe: rigo

12:10:03 [rigo]

zakim, who is here?

12:10:03 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P0, [IPcaller], +358.504.87aaaa, ??P4, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.978.867.aabb

12:10:05 [Zakim]

On IRC I see rigo, Zakim, RRSAgent, renato, christinatzivisko, boabjohn

12:10:18 [boabjohn]

Hello.

12:10:40 [rigo]

RI: reviewing wiki activity in last 4 weeks

12:10:55 [tlr]

tlr has joined #pling

12:10:55 [Zakim]

- +358.504.87aaaa

12:11:08 [tlr]

zakim, who is on the phone?

12:11:08 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P0, [IPcaller], ??P4, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.978.867.aabb

12:11:11 [tlr]

zakim, call thomas-skype

12:11:11 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; the call is being made

12:11:13 [Zakim]

+Thomas

12:11:33 [Zakim]

+ +358.504.87aacc

12:12:17 [rigo]

RW: swamped, have lots of interesting cases to write up

12:12:35 [rigo]

zakim, aacc is Hannes

12:12:35 [Zakim]

+Hannes; got it

12:12:43 [tlr]

zakim, who is on the phone

12:12:43 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is on the phone', tlr

12:12:54 [rigo]

RI: any major additions to the wiki past 4 weeks

12:13:06 [rigo]

RI: two new languages added

12:13:17 [tlr]

PROTUNE

12:13:55 [tlr]

sure

12:14:01 [tlr]

ScribeNick: trl

12:14:04 [tlr]

ScribeNick: tlr

12:14:14 [tlr]

RW: PrimeLife deliverable

12:14:18 [tlr]

... about to be published ...

12:14:36 [tlr]

... contains lots of review of standards the project will try to address ...

12:14:40 [tlr]

... collection of policy languages ...

12:14:50 [tlr]

... have to see whether we have all of these in that list ...

12:14:58 [tlr]

... and also whether there are additions in the PrimeLife list ...

12:15:06 [tlr]

RI: Analysis as well as just documenting?

12:15:13 [tlr]

RW: Not a deep analysis

12:15:21 [tlr]

... just adds some explanation of what these do ...

12:15:27 [tlr]

... still lots of pages ...

12:15:36 [tlr]

MCM: Description of successful use cases? pros/cons?

12:15:42 [tlr]

RW: Good idea, but we haven't done that yet

12:15:53 [tlr]

... maybe if we ever come across implementation, let's add that to wiki ...

12:16:00 [tlr]

HT: Think Implementation itself is nice ...

12:16:07 [tlr]

... deployment is the crucial part ...

12:16:17 [tlr]

... I worked on a specific protocol that's widely implemented ...

12:16:21 [tlr]

... but in fact not widely deployed ...

12:16:35 [tlr]

RW: Interesting

12:16:38 [tlr]

HT: Protocol is @@

12:16:48 [tlr]

s/@@/diameter/

12:16:56 [tlr]

... it's a AAA protocol ...

12:17:01 [tlr]

... 26 implementations, but hardly any use ...

12:17:13 [tlr]

... implementations are interesting, but it doesn't help ..

12:17:21 [tlr]

... understand why things are not successful wrt deployment ...

12:17:35 [tlr]

MCM: important to consider deployment

12:17:40 [tlr]

HT: Hard to get by with that information about deployments

12:17:43 [tlr]

RW: Hard work indeed.

12:18:00 [tlr]

RI: Looking forward to PrimeLife report

12:18:22 [tlr]

MCM: Public deliverable?

12:18:27 [tlr]

RW: In the loop for publication clearance

12:18:33 [Ashok]

Ashok has joined #pling

12:18:49 [tlr]

RI: </languages>

12:18:56 [tlr]

RI: No new use cases added that I've seen.

12:18:59 [tlr]

... anything new from Marco?

12:19:05 [tlr]

MCM: Haven't seen anything extremely different

12:19:22 [tlr]

... main driver is how to deal with multiple languages in different contexts ...

12:19:24 [tlr]

... big theme in HP ...

12:19:32 [tlr]

... talking to some of the business groups ...

12:19:37 [tlr]

... common context is heterogeneous ...

12:19:57 [tlr]

... environments with enforcement and decision points at different points of the stack ...

12:20:02 [tlr]

... conservative approach to change ...

12:20:29 [tlr]

... any compelling way to combine / compare different policies ...

12:20:31 [tlr]

... check for inconsistencies ...

12:20:36 [tlr]

... update consistently ...

12:20:42 [tlr]

RI: Reviewing other sections of wiki, not much enw

12:20:44 [tlr]

s/enw/new/

12:20:51 [tlr]

zakim, unmute me

12:20:51 [Zakim]

sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

12:21:01 [tlr]

q+

12:21:06 [tlr]

RW: What's PROTUNE about?

12:21:15 [tlr]

q-

12:21:24 [tlr]

RI: There's a link from the wiki. Don't know it in detail.

12:21:37 [tlr]

RW: Picos?

12:21:48 [tlr]

MCM: Trying to get people to join these calls, but conflict today.

12:22:04 [tlr]

re PROTUNE: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Concrete_examples_given_in_Protune

12:22:15 [tlr]

RW: share information on pling mailing list?

12:22:25 [tlr]

-- scribe takes break --

12:23:22 [tlr]

MCM: (PICOS summary)

12:23:35 [rigo]

http://www.picos-project.eu/

12:26:38 [tlr]

RI: Please update the wiki. If you make major changes, please alert the list.

12:26:42 [tlr]

Topic: Liaisons

12:27:22 [tlr]

RI: ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC 27 WG5?

12:27:29 [tlr]

RW: Talked to convener two weeks ago.

12:27:51 [tlr]

... have to submit paper

12:28:43 [tlr]

... access to documents, excuse for publication of specs

12:28:49 [tlr]

... I'm tracking the action already.

12:29:07 [tlr]

RI: PrimeLife?

12:29:15 [tlr]

RW: I'd love to get Jan C on these calls.

12:29:19 [tlr]

... tlr, bug him?

12:29:23 [tlr]

ACTION: tlr to bug JanC

12:29:33 [tlr]

RI: Concordia?

12:30:27 [tlr]

TR: No news, sorry.

12:30:44 [tlr]

MCM: Started by Liberty, interoperability for FIM

12:30:56 [renato]

action: rigo liaison letter to SC27/Wg5

12:31:05 [tlr]

MCM: Monitoring

12:31:17 [tlr]

... not sure contact needs to be created from scratch ...

12:31:26 [tlr]

... it's been launched by liberty alliance; purpose is to be independence ...

12:31:29 [tlr]

... name says it all ...

12:32:15 [tlr]

q+

12:32:27 [rigo]

ack tlr

12:32:46 [tlr]

TR: Maybe best to approach them in the context of broader conversation with Liberty.

12:33:51 [tlr]

RI: ok, let's keep it on the back-burner

12:33:58 [tlr]

... anything else we should be looking at?

12:34:36 [tlr]

RW: I saw something about ODRL and microformats...

12:34:49 [tlr]

... one of the chairs is a good liaison candidates ..

12:35:07 [tlr]

ACTION: Renato to put in material re ODRL and microformat-representation

12:35:44 [tlr]

RW: Negation in ODRL?

12:35:56 [tlr]

RI: ODRL 2

12:36:02 [tlr]

RW: How is it modelled?

12:36:28 [tlr]

RI: actions, prohibitions, high-level

12:36:37 [tlr]

... modeling side, don't have the answer yet ...

12:37:07 [tlr]

... things have been a bit slow on ODRL front ...

12:37:18 [tlr]

... not getting much of a push from market or industry ...

12:37:21 [tlr]

... to put out v2 quickly ...

12:37:32 [tlr]

RW: Understandable.

12:37:44 [tlr]

RI: Happy to report on ODRL here.

12:37:57 [tlr]

... anything else?

12:38:10 [tlr]

MCM: infocard foundation as been created

12:38:42 [tlr]

... could be interesting to do liaison ...

12:38:50 [tlr]

... suspect exploration of policiese to handle infocards ...

12:38:57 [tlr]

... back-end management of infocards ...

12:39:16 [tlr]

Topic: Events

12:39:26 [tlr]

RI: f2f meeting proposal for TPAC

12:39:29 [tlr]

... 23/24 October ...

12:39:37 [tlr]

... That's Thu/Fri of that week ...

12:39:40 [tlr]

... we have a room scheduled ...

12:39:48 [tlr]

... have to get back to them and say "yes, we want" ...

12:39:53 [tlr]

... (or "no") ...

12:40:03 [tlr]

... need to decide quickly whether to go ahead with f2f ...

12:40:29 [tlr]

... if it's not of interest, we should W3C that resource can be released ...

12:40:31 [tlr]

RW: Understand RI won't be able to come?

12:40:35 [tlr]

RI: 80% probability that I can come

12:40:39 [tlr]

... depends on external factors ...

12:40:41 [tlr]

... lookign reasonably well that I could make it ...

12:40:48 [tlr]

... issue is how many other people are here ...

12:40:58 [tlr]

RW: Think one of the chairs should raise things on the mailing list ...

12:41:17 [tlr]

... TR and I will care for having people invited where needed, and all that ...

12:41:25 [tlr]

ACTION: RI to poll group about TPAC attendance

12:41:38 [tlr]

RW: Maybe raise in ac-forum?

12:42:06 [tlr]

... we can't issue another call for participation ...

12:42:09 [tlr]

... maybe also in chairs ...

12:42:17 [tlr]

... maybe meeting the experts might be useful for other groups ...

12:42:42 [tlr]

RI: Happy to draft e-mail to ac-forum to highlight that ...

12:42:47 [tlr]

RW: 95 subscribers on mailing list

12:42:57 [tlr]

... maybe we can get some feedback ...

12:43:23 [tlr]

RI: Will send something soon.

12:43:26 [tlr]

RW: Agenda important.

12:43:32 [tlr]

RI: anything else on f2f?

12:43:46 [tlr]

RI: Also, IEEE policy 2008

12:43:57 [tlr]

... to occur, has occured?

12:44:29 [tlr]

MCM: I raised this point last time to ask if anybody here was there

12:44:43 [tlr]

... don't know that we've anything relevant ...

12:44:47 [tlr]

RW: Maybe ask on mailing list?

12:44:49 [tlr]

MCM: good idea

12:44:53 [tlr]

RI: Interesting papers.

12:45:02 [renato]

Paper from IEEE Policy <http://www.usukita.org/?q=node/183>

12:45:13 [tlr]

topic: AOB

12:45:25 [tlr]

RI: Charter extension.

12:45:31 [tlr]

... the charter is extended through June 2009 ...

12:45:33 [tlr]

... thanks to Rigo ...

12:46:03 [tlr]

RW: Meeting at barrier reef!

12:46:11 [tlr]

... preferably in winter ...

12:46:22 [tlr]

RI: So, we're here for another year

12:46:26 [tlr]

... any other other business

12:46:33 [boabjohn]

Many apologies: more progress on usecases next meeting

12:46:41 [tlr]

... next meeting scheduled for @@ August

12:46:44 [tlr]

... same time ...

12:46:45 [rigo]

13

12:46:49 [tlr]

s/@@/13/

12:46:54 [tlr]

... telco is scheduled monthly

12:47:13 [tlr]

RI: adjourned

12:47:32 [Zakim]

- +1.978.867.aabb

12:47:34 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

12:47:35 [Zakim]

-??P0

12:47:36 [Zakim]

-??P4

12:47:36 [Zakim]

-Hannes

12:47:38 [Zakim]

-Ashok_Malhotra

12:47:38 [Zakim]

P3P_PLING()8:00AM has ended

12:47:39 [Zakim]

Attendees were [IPcaller], +358.504.87aaaa, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.978.867.aabb, Thomas, +358.504.87aacc, Hannes

12:47:59 [rigo]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

12:47:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-minutes.html rigo

12:48:45 [rigo]

RRSAgent, bye

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-actions.rdf :

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: tlr to bug JanC [1]

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc#T12-29-23

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: rigo liaison letter to SC27/Wg5 [2]

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc#T12-30-56

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Renato to put in material re ODRL and microformat-representation [3]

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc#T12-35-07

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: RI to poll group about TPAC attendance [4]

12:48:45 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-pling-irc#T12-41-25

12:48:50 [rigo]

zakim, bye

12:48:50 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #pling