14:45:41 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 14:45:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-irc 14:45:43 Zakim has joined #xproc 14:45:45 Zakim, this will be xproc 14:45:45 ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes 14:45:47 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 14:45:47 Date: 3 July 2008 14:45:47 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/03-agenda 14:45:47 Meeting: 118 14:45:47 Chair: Norm 14:45:48 Scribe: Norm 14:45:50 ScribeNick: Norm 14:45:52 Regrets: Richard 14:46:01 Norm has changed the topic to: XProc WG meets 3 July: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/03-agenda 14:48:48 ruilopes has joined #xproc 14:55:25 PGrosso has joined #xproc 14:59:14 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started 14:59:15 +Norm 15:00:27 +[ArborText] 15:01:06 +[IPcaller] 15:01:18 Zakim, [I is me 15:01:18 +ruilopes; got it 15:02:55 zakim, what's the code? 15:02:55 the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ht 15:03:23 +??P46 15:03:25 -??P46 15:03:25 +??P46 15:03:27 Vojtech has joined #xproc 15:03:32 zakimm, ? is ht 15:03:37 MoZ has joined #xproc 15:03:39 zakim, ? is ht 15:03:40 +ht; got it 15:03:47 Zakim, what is the code ? 15:03:50 the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MoZ 15:04:26 Zakim, who is here? 15:04:26 On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, ruilopes, ht 15:04:27 On IRC I see MoZ, Vojtech, PGrosso, ruilopes, Zakim, RRSAgent, Norm, ht, MSM 15:04:55 +Vojtech 15:05:03 +??P1 15:06:56 Zakim, ?? is me 15:06:56 sorry, MoZ, I do not recognize a party named '??' 15:07:10 zakim, ? is MoZ 15:07:10 sorry, ht, I do not recognize a party named '?' 15:07:17 zakim, P1 is MoZ 15:07:17 sorry, ht, I do not recognize a party named 'P1' 15:07:32 Present: Norm, Paul, Rui, Henry, Vojtech, Mohamed 15:08:22 Topic: Accept this agenda? 15:08:22 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/07/03-agenda 15:08:26 Accepted. 15:08:40 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 15:08:40 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/06/26-minutes 15:08:42 Accepted. 15:08:52 Topic: Next meeting: telcon 3 July 2008? 15:08:59 s/3 July/10 July/ 15:09:16 Henry gives regrets. 15:09:49 Topic: Comments on latest editor's draft 15:11:33 Norm summarizes his recent changes wrt xpath-version 15:12:12 No other comments. 15:12:21 Topic: XSLT functions in XProc expressions 15:13:29 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jun/0044.html 15:14:53 Norm summarizes, he'd like to forbid them all. 15:16:57 Mohamed pushes back and suggests that we need generate-id() especially for XPath 1.0 implementatios. 15:17:07 zakim, mute me 15:17:07 ht should now be muted 15:19:13 Norm: I'd prefer the simplicity of forbidding them all and come back to it if someone demonstrates a real need for it. 15:19:22 Mohamed: That's ok for me. 15:19:58 Proposal: XProc processors are not required to implement any functions defined only in XSLT. 15:20:11 Accepted. 15:21:02 ACTION: Norm to add information about which functions must be implemented and note that XSLT functions do not have to be implemented. 15:21:11 zakim, unmute me 15:21:11 ht should no longer be muted 15:21:23 Topic: Consider schema imports 15:21:59 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jun/0047.html 15:26:11 Henry: It's very clear that the winged hourse allows you to find the type hierarchy. It doesn't let you do things with substitution groups, for example. 15:27:10 Norm: So we couldn't do element construction (which we don't), substitution groups, or the validate expression. 15:27:53 Henry: We could put schema import in, identify it as a feature at risk, and then we could remove it. If we leave it out and ask for feedback, we could be pushed back to Last Call again. 15:30:52 Norm: Yes. I suppose the best thing we can do is add the feature and make it optional. So basic processors can skip it. Schema-aware processors will be able to use types, etc. And identify it as a feature that might get removed if there's strong opposition. 15:32:29 Henry: Seems like a good compromise to me. 15:32:49 Norm: I think we should forbid references to non-builtin schema types if it doesn't support schema import. 15:33:06 Henry: I disagree. I just want to grab an XPath 2 library and use the winged horse. 15:34:13 Norm: In XSLT, you can't refer to a hatsize unless you've imported the schema that defines hatsize. 15:35:12 Mohamed: Where do we use this element? 15:35:47 Norm: At the top of your pipeline. 15:36:07 Mohamed: In XSLT, it's clear that when we manipulate a sequence of documents, they are related. In XProc, that's not the case. 15:36:36 ...Importing a schema for all the pipeline, even if there will be conflicts. 15:37:26 Norm is confused. 15:37:55 Mohamed: Imagine I have a pipeline that's supposed to handle XHTML 1, XHTML 2, and XHTML 3. They're all in the same namespace, but they have different definitions. 15:39:11 Norm: How will you check? 15:39:21 Mohamed: By looking for an element, html:h, for example 15:39:30 Norm: So you don't need a schema for that 15:39:48 Mohamed: But in each branch, I might want to be able to do tests with the right types. 15:42:33 Mohamed: We could add schema-import everywhere that p:namespaces is allowed. Importing may not be sufficient if we want to handle all the cases. 15:42:53 ...But if we just want to handle some of the cases, and we want to support substitution groups, then it's probably ok to just put it at the top. 15:43:43 Proposal: We'll add p:schema-import, allowed at the top of a pipeline, to provide schema definitions. This is an optional feature. 15:44:13 ...We'll note that it may not be sufficient to handle all the possible cases where a pipeline needs to check the types of elements that come from documents using different versions of the namespace. 15:44:40 ...We'll leave open for the moment the question of whether or not it's legal to refer to t:hatsize without having imported the schema that defines it. 15:44:48 I've sent another email -- Norm is right 15:45:58 So scratch the last bit. It is an error if you write an xpath who's type is not in the static context. 15:46:48 Accepted. 15:47:04 ACTION: Norm to implement p:schema-import. 15:47:18 Mohamed: I think we're opening a new box that may have a lot of side-effects on components. 15:47:38 ...What happens to the context passed to the steps? 15:52:41 Henry: If it's not the static context for xpath evaluation that's effected by schema import, what is? 15:55:26 Norm: It is the static context. But what about the static context for steps. 15:55:36 Mohamed: I think this won't help if we want to go to last call quickly. 15:56:35 Norm: Indeed. 15:57:19 Henry: We can add this and make it an optional feature. We can also mark it as a feature that is at risk. 15:57:30 ...That way we can proceed from last call without it. 15:57:42 ...So if no one says, I require this, then we can get rid of it without going back. 15:58:01 ACTION: Editor to write it up and see what it looks like. 15:58:45 Vojtech: It may be difficult to specify the behavior when importing other subpipelines. 15:58:53 Mohamed: Visibility will definitely be an issue. 15:59:04 Henry: The analogy with XSLT is our friend. Whatever they do, we should do. 15:59:17 -ht 15:59:19 -Norm 15:59:19 -PGrosso 15:59:20 -MoZ 15:59:20 -Vojtech 15:59:22 -ruilopes 15:59:23 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended 15:59:26 Attendees were Norm, PGrosso, [IPcaller], ruilopes, ht, Vojtech, MoZ 15:59:28 Topic: Any other business 15:59:30 Out of time. 15:59:34 Adjourned. 15:59:39 RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 15:59:43 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:59:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-xproc-minutes.html Norm 16:00:09 PGrosso has left #xproc 17:26:44 Zakim has left #xproc 19:50:19 Norm has joined #xproc