16:56:43 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 16:56:43 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-tagmem-irc 16:57:10 Stuart has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/07/03-tag-xri 16:57:10 Ashok has joined #tagmem 16:57:32 Meeting: Joint TAG and XRI TC 16:58:09 zakim, this will be tag 16:58:09 ok, Stuart; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 16:58:47 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started 16:58:50 fhirsch has joined #tagmem 16:58:50 zakim, who is on the phone? 16:58:50 On the phone I see no one 16:58:54 +??P7 16:59:00 zakim, what is the code? 16:59:00 the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), fhirsch 16:59:01 zakim, ??p7 is me 16:59:03 +Stuart; got it 16:59:06 + +aaaa 16:59:09 -Stuart 16:59:10 +Stuart 16:59:32 +Ashok_Malhotra 16:59:49 zakim, +aaa is Will 16:59:49 +Will; got it 17:00:17 + +1.443.864.aabb 17:00:20 - +1.443.864.aabb 17:00:51 zakim, who is here? 17:00:51 On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra 17:00:52 On IRC I see fhirsch, Ashok, RRSAgent, Stuart, peterdavis, jbradley_ve7jtb, ReallyJeffH, MSabadello, nikaj, Drummond_Reed, lchasen, Norm, ht, DanC, Zakim, trackbot 17:00:55 +DanC 17:01:01 + +1.443.864.aacc 17:01:06 gwachob has joined #tagmem 17:01:07 +[IPcaller] 17:01:24 zakim, +[IPCaller] is fhirsch 17:01:24 sorry, fhirsch, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPCaller]' 17:01:35 zakim, IPCaller is fhirsch 17:01:35 +fhirsch; got it 17:01:42 + +1.206.364.aadd 17:01:45 zakim, who is here? 17:01:47 On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, +1.443.864.aacc, fhirsch, +1.206.364.aadd 17:01:51 On IRC I see gwachob, fhirsch, Ashok, RRSAgent, Stuart, peterdavis, jbradley_ve7jtb, ReallyJeffH, MSabadello, nikaj, Drummond_Reed, lchasen, Norm, ht, DanC, Zakim, trackbot 17:01:58 0825# not valid 17:02:20 +jar 17:02:24 + +1.703.650.aaee 17:02:34 +Norm 17:02:45 +??P2 17:02:46 zakim, +1.206 is Drummond 17:02:47 +Drummond; got it 17:02:57 jar has joined #tagmem 17:03:12 +TimBL 17:03:29 + +aaff 17:03:35 + +1.703.728.aagg 17:03:41 zakim, +1.443 is lchasen 17:03:41 +lchasen; got it 17:03:43 0824 seemed to work 17:03:45 +[IPcaller] 17:03:55 zakim, [ is ht 17:03:55 +ht; got it 17:04:04 timbl has joined #tagmem 17:04:11 + +1.425.644.aahh 17:04:14 Zakim, who's on the phone? 17:04:14 On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, lchasen, fhirsch, Drummond, jar, +1.703.650.aaee, Norm, ??P2, TimBL, +aaff, +1.703.728.aagg, ht, +1.425.644.aahh 17:04:20 wil has joined #tagmem 17:04:31 + +1.925.686.aaii 17:04:36 huh? 17:04:39 Zakim, aaii is victor 17:04:39 +victor; got it 17:04:39 i'm on skypeout 17:04:47 i'm not sure i have a phone number 17:05:05 zakim, +1.703.728 is peterdavis 17:05:05 +peterdavis; got it 17:05:17 +1.571.434.7933 is Wil Tan 17:05:21 + +1.617.513.aajj 17:05:46 Zakim, +1.571.434.7933 is Wil 17:05:46 sorry, timbl, I do not recognize a party named '+1.571.434.7933' 17:05:46 MartySchleiff has joined #tagmem 17:05:49 It does queue management, can mute folks, etc. 17:05:56 Zakim, 7933 is Wil 17:05:56 sorry, timbl, I do not recognize a party named '7933' 17:05:56 zakim, who is here? 17:05:57 On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, lchasen, fhirsch, Drummond, jar, +1.703.650.aaee, Norm, ??P2, TimBL, +aaff, peterdavis, ht, +1.425.644.aahh, victor, 17:06:02 ... +1.617.513.aajj 17:06:02 i have no idea what call # i am 17:06:03 On IRC I see MartySchleiff, wil, timbl, jar, gwachob, fhirsch, Ashok, RRSAgent, Stuart, peterdavis, jbradley_ve7jtb, ReallyJeffH, MSabadello, nikaj, Drummond_Reed, lchasen, Norm, 17:06:06 ... ht, DanC, Zakim, trackbot 17:06:06 + +1.310.293.aakk 17:06:08 zakim, +1.703.650 is jbradley_ve7jtb 17:06:08 +jbradley_ve7jtb; got it 17:06:11 7933.wil 17:06:25 JeffH, what area code are you calling in from? 17:06:36 571 i think 17:06:41 zakim, who is here? 17:06:41 On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, lchasen, fhirsch, Drummond, jar, jbradley_ve7jtb, Norm, ??P2, TimBL, +aaff, peterdavis, ht, +1.425.644.aahh, victor, 17:06:44 ... +1.617.513.aajj, +1.310.293.aakk 17:06:46 On IRC I see MartySchleiff, wil, timbl, jar, gwachob, fhirsch, Ashok, RRSAgent, Stuart, peterdavis, jbradley_ve7jtb, ReallyJeffH, MSabadello, nikaj, Drummond_Reed, lchasen, Norm, 17:06:48 ... ht, DanC, Zakim, trackbot 17:07:58 + +1.415.206.aall 17:08:29 DanC has changed the topic to: TAG/XRI telcon http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/07/03-tag-xri 17:09:36 scribenick Ashok 17:09:42 BTW, the page Peter will be speaking to in a minute is http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XriTcW3cTag 17:10:00 + +1.612.387.aamm 17:10:15 Stuart outlines objectives of the call 17:10:33 Drummond: Peter will co-chair the call 17:11:02 A reminder to our guests that we take minutes in IRC, and the IRC logs will be public in an hour or two, so bear that in mind 17:11:31 + +43.195.8aann 17:11:46 zakim, +43 is MSabadello 17:11:46 +MSabadello; got it 17:12:07 Peter: This initial call shd be a discovery process that will start a productive dialog 17:12:34 zakim, +aamm is nikaj 17:12:34 sorry, nikaj, I do not recognize a party named '+aamm' 17:12:46 zakim, aamm is nikaj 17:12:46 +nikaj; got it 17:13:18 Stuart: We take notes on IRC. The minutes are public. I will run the minutes by the chair of the XRI TC before publishing 17:14:26 Introductions 17:15:55 ht: The bar for introducing new URI schems shd be very high and I think XRI does not get over the bar but lets discuss 17:16:56 jar: We are looking for URIs for data integration ... 17:18:34 Drummond: Lack of discussion seems to have led to a number on misunderstandings on both sides ... I hope we can clear those up 17:20:22 "Global Registry" ? pointer? 17:20:43 +Dave_Orchard 17:20:50 I may have been pegged as IPcaller 17:21:44 XRI global registry services are provided by XDI.org (http://xdi.org) - Cordance and NeuStar are contractors to XDI.org 17:22:24 Frederick is that you? 17:22:25 Ashok, are you capturing these intros somewhere? 17:22:41 no, I was not ... only the high points 17:23:16 Jamie: Looks forward to better colaboration between OASIS and W3C 17:23:53 q+ for question of clarification wrt the IPR issue 17:24:09 q+ to ask for question of clarification wrt the IPR issue 17:24:56 fhirsch: I'm with Nokai and also on the OASIS board. I am interested in how all this works out 17:24:57 it would be great to have fhirsch here 17:25:35 Stuart: Frederick, I'm happy nto have you stay. Our records are public 17:25:36 XRI TC is fine with Fredericks attendance 17:26:04 s/Nokai/Nokia/ 17:26:24 Paul Trevithick (sp?) -- started teh Higgins project, unifying objects a cross a glbal graph. 17:26:53 Paul Trevithick ... started Higgins project which has to do with identifying objects over a global graph 17:27:44 DaveO: Tah member... belives in using exiting technogies where possible but I'm open ... 17:27:59 s/Tah/Tag/ 17:29:42 -jbradley_ve7jtb 17:29:42 q- ht 17:30:13 Sturat: Peter, please summarize where XRI TC is 17:30:28 Peter: We will do some TAG teaming on this 17:30:30 Peter will be speaking to a page on the XRI TC wiki: http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XriTcW3cTag 17:31:06 Peter: I have 4 sub-tems on the intro 17:31:26 What the problems the XRI TC expects to solve ... usecases 17:31:47 Conclusions we came to ... URis were not quite sufficeint to address these 17:32:04 How the XRI commitee drafts solev these 17:32:10 IPR issues 17:32:48 Problems we are aiming to solve 17:33:33 "feasibility of URIs w r t to authority production" ? 17:33:40 1. Canniot be dependent on any transport or protocol or authority 17:34:07 TinBl asks clarification on authority part 17:34:27 Peter: Did not want to be dependent on any authority 17:34:59 2. Independence of any characteristic of resource that may change over time 17:35:15 FYI I was dropped by the bridge and can't get back in because it is full. 17:35:49 I will stay on IRC 17:35:56 Enables cross-mapping of multiple abstract or concrete identifiers for the same resource 17:36:19 The TC had a requirment to craete multiple synonym IDs which could be canonicalized into one canonical ID. 17:36:25 This gets at the issue of synonms 17:36:35 -- timbl's understnading if what was said 17:36:56 clarification: it is not a requirement that the synonyms *must* be canonicalized into one, just that this is an option 17:37:05 4. can map any number of concrete identifiers into a service ... such as SOAP service 17:37:39 We have a small number of services types that can be used with XRIs 17:38:00 @Stuart, it's okay - we don't need to disturb the call 17:38:06 SOAP, or XML get or a more complex service 17:38:21 TimBL: These are to resolve references 17:38:59 Peter: No, can point to specific service such as UDDI 17:39:11 John Bradley: dial *0 when you are told you can't get in 17:39:24 and ask Josh to patch you in manually 17:40:07 OK 17:40:28 Drummond: These are captured on the page above 17:40:42 ie. http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XriTcW3cTag 17:40:46 I think of XRI as abstraction layer on URIs 17:40:57 +jbradley_ve7jtb 17:41:31 Peter: Another requirement is Cross context identifiers 17:41:53 -Drummond 17:41:57 So, one identifier can refernce another identifier in another scheme 17:42:32 Peter: Marty provides examples in Boeing usecases 17:43:13 Marty: In a directory situation, looking up a authenticated identifier and looking up it's properties 17:43:14 -Will 17:43:42 e.g. X509 identifiers, ... SAML assertions. 17:43:51 +Drummond 17:44:07 Lot of internal apps look up things based on employee number 17:44:58 XRI can help describe identifier and then point to matching rules 17:45:13 sorry, I got dropped due to operator error (my own) 17:45:18 am back 17:46:37 Stuart: please explain this XRI 17:46:42 xri://=(mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com) 17:47:00 I'd note, btw, that this mailto: URI is not my actual email address... 17:47:18 i.e. this is just an example? 17:47:22 which is an accident 17:47:34 Peter/; in fronnt is a cross reference. The = global context symbol. There are 4 17:47:37 "=" is xri syntax meaning "the authority is an individual" <- that's what I understood 17:47:51 ashok, drummond is speaking, FWIW 17:47:54 Says it's personal 17:48:00 "Global context symbol -- there are 4 = person , + general,. @ orgamization $ standards body 17:48:06 " 17:48:56 / is global context and / is a authority -local context 17:49:04 ... // is global context and / is a authority -local context 17:49:55 In native form you don't need xri: 17:49:58 XRI syntax defines four global context symbols for establishing shared context for an identifier 17:50:05 = for personal identifiers 17:50:19 @ for organizational identifiers 17:50:41 So xri://= means it's a person, xri://@ means it's an organization, etc.? 17:50:52 Norm, yes I tink so 17:51:20 Cross context works at any level of the path 17:51:20 don't think so, Norm; I gather xri://=(mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com) is notation for mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com ; i.e. it refers to a mailbox, not a person. 17:51:20 Norm: yes 17:51:31 xri://@boeing*(@example*bob) is form Boeing use case 17:51:47 oops; looks like I misunderstood. 17:51:48 DanC: the stuff inside the () is just a string -- but it can be extracted mechanically as a URI 17:51:48 perhaps a better subject for dicusion 17:51:51 Marty: It will be the example about multipl identity providers for a single entity 17:52:29 GabeW: is it nor more restrict down to being another XRI? 17:53:02 actually, Dan's point is a very good one: mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com is an identifier of a mailbox, while xri://=(mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com) can be an identifier of the person using that mailbox 17:53:10 Stuart: Do you want to go back to top-level of the summary 17:53:23 can be? 17:53:42 Peter: We discussed looking at URis and we thought a new identifier sysntax was necessary 17:54:04 I say "can be" because the assertion is that the authority for that identifier is a person 17:54:42 1. A uri is either local or requires a DNS. DNs may not be always right authority. E.g telephone number does not use DNS. 17:54:58 So an XRI for a telephone number would include an authority component? 17:55:08 tel://1/617/671/6200 17:55:20 TimBL: Telephone numbers have a hierarchical pattern to them 17:55:29 That would have been fine use of punct 17:56:19 Peter: It does have a delegation pattern look to it 17:56:38 But some identifiers do not have delgation properties to them 17:57:34 2. This notion of crossreferencing is not possible ... embedding identifiers is important to us 17:57:58 3. synonm support -- we did not find a model for synonms 17:58:22 (the pattern of "http doesn't have X so we can't use http" seems to skip past the possibility of layering X on top of http. e.g. synonyms; RDF/OWL layers synonyms on top of http (and other) URIs ) 17:58:37 4. Notion of interop service discovery ... UDDI, ebXML discussion 17:59:12 http schems could probably fulfil this with careful instructions 17:59:28 q? 17:59:54 Drummond: IPR concerns were brought up in contect of XRI vote 18:00:06 We have noted concerns on the page 18:01:08 Requirement that IPR be RF ... 18:03:13 Jamie: 3 things ...I'm not sure which are TAGs concern 18:05:21 I don't think the IPR issues were core of the TAGs critiques 18:05:24 Norm - look for 'express" in the Boeing XRI use cases 18:05:42 Sorry ... I had trouble getting the IPR points ... 18:06:14 I think that people on the net checked wondered about the reason for starting a new naming scheme and look for commercial motivation. 18:06:23 ht: We had questins abt registration and mangement process 18:07:01 TimBL: The TAGs concerns is architectural... competion with URI space 18:07:15 What's the motivation? 18:07:43 Historically, the motivation has been commercial 18:08:03 People have been asking on the net 18:08:19 HT articulates TAG's position 18:09:48 Gloss on the single sentence ... TAGs reading is understand, document and prserve the value proposition of the architecture of the Web 18:10:12 Centrality if the Web being a single information space. 18:10:24 dorchard has joined #tagmem 18:10:28 s/if/is/ 18:10:49 This hugely important in keeping the Web valuable 18:11:05 on which list was this said, HT ? 18:11:23 It's not the other schema split the info space but they Balkanize it 18:11:36 s/schema/schemes/ 18:11:57 Thus, bar on new identifier schemes must be very high 18:12:37 Yiou need to demo there is a bar for URIs doing what you want or there is a huge value add 18:12:54 Convenience is not enough 18:13:16 q? 18:13:31 many types of naming schemes amoit to lookup + hierarchy 18:14:02 Existing mechanisms have solved a bunch of problems 18:14:37 reinventing all that has a huge cost -- both technical and social 18:15:18 We have not heard convincing arguments that XRI provides enough value add to overcome that cost 18:15:53 I will give you all your requirements and still say the cost of fragmenting the info space is too high 18:16:23 Cost to a naming scheme no one can click on and follow 18:17:03 Any new naming scheme require a huge amount of work from a lot of folks to get into the game 18:17:07 The Mark Baker email about fragmented information space is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Jun/0042.html 18:17:25 Henry - did you read my response to your misrepresentation of how things work at Boeing? 18:17:40 Yes, and I'm glad to hear that things are more flexible than I thought 18:17:50 I know of many other large organisations that don't have that flexibility 18:17:58 Stuart: Let's allow 10 minutes of discussion and get to next steps in last 5 minutes 18:18:00 q+ 18:18:03 q- 18:18:26 q+ 18:18:34 ack peter 18:18:35 q+ 18:18:47 q+ 18:19:01 Peter: We do not want to fragment the info space 18:19:25 There are several facets to XRI naming structure that we may or may not have articulated 18:20:25 We did not find ways to represent embedded idenfiers within URI BNF 18:21:02 The political requirement to make a different authority to IANA was mentioned earlier 18:21:11 Many of our identifiers use DNs some do not. We need to figure out which do and do not 18:21:11 q? 18:21:17 ack Marty 18:22:07 HST thinks that addressing the "http scheme did not allow us to to use non-DNS authority resolution" is a very concrete challenge that we could focus on 18:22:15 Yes, and in fact XRI proxy resolution -- which uses XRIs in HTTP URI form -- does that 18:22:16 Marty: Boing usecases do not talk abt click behaviour or what the browser is supposed to do 18:22:29 s/Boing/Boeing/ 18:22:45 in fact, xri.net/ is how xri's are largely being resolved today 18:22:49 q? 18:22:49 (hmm... where does the requirement to use non-DNS authorities come from? that sounds more like a solution than a requirement. Indeed, why doesn't http://xri.org/etc work?) 18:22:55 ack Drummond 18:23:00 q+ to talk about protocol independence and metadata in URIs 18:23:11 The cost of introducing all new fetures into URI would be more than introducing a new scheme 18:23:34 Drummond: Intention is not to fragment the info space 18:24:55 Our requirements were not URI compatible ... we tried and defined mapping from XRI to URI and IRI normal forms 18:25:01 q? 18:25:11 There's a relevant message from Roy Fielding at: http://www.w3.org/mid/DA4CB689-4D55-4261-9AA3-B63BD2308D43@gbiv.com 18:25:30 The cross reference requirement has grown in important ... primarily to data sharing 18:25:41 the XDI TC is looking into that 18:25:51 danc, because, in part, identifiers are produced in many spaces, not just atop the Internet Protocol 18:25:54 (embedding URIs inside other URIs doesn't require a new scheme. every forms-based service that asks users to input a URI does it, e.g. the W3C markup validation service.) 18:26:01 he says (amongst other things): "... Because http URIs are not, 18:26:01 in fact, dependent on DNS. 18:26:01 " 18:26:08 Ashok - The cost of introducing all new fetures into http: would be more than introducing a new scheme 18:26:14 q? 18:26:32 peterdavis has joined #tagmem 18:26:45 Really, it has far more to do with a basic misunderstanding of 18:26:45 web architecture, namely that you have to use HTTP to get a 18:26:45 representation of an "http" named resource. 18:27:06 ack dor 18:27:06 dorchard, you wanted to talk about protocol independence and metadata in URIs 18:27:11 We want to create compatibility with info space while adding a branch that adds value 18:27:17 q+ jamie 18:27:46 peterdavis_ has joined #tagmem 18:27:56 peterdavis, no Internet Protocol operations are needed to mint an identifier that starts with http://xri.org/ 18:28:21 DaveO: Yiu say you don't want to fragment info space but it sure looks like it 18:28:54 You dupicate a number of URI infrastructure 18:29:03 +q 18:29:23 What's the killer app for XRI's? 18:30:15 zakim, please close the queue. 18:30:15 ok, Stuart, the speaker queue is closed 18:30:29 We could say "XRIs will be URIs" and this meets some of our requirements but not all 18:31:11 DaveO: An early claim was 'we need XRIs to prevent phishing attacks' 18:33:07 Web Services have fragmented the info space and this has caused great grief 18:33:44 Web Services have carved out a small space ... this has restricted their growth 18:33:59 I don't want to see that happening again 18:34:26 thats an issue I'm personally interested in, fwiw 18:34:27 -jar 18:34:40 Roy says http identifiers do not have to be bound to http 18:34:54 They sure don't. 18:35:44 XRI coud use a URI template to restrict space for special uses 18:35:52 q? 18:36:23 ok 18:36:25 ack jamie 18:37:00 Jamie: The list of concerns tells me we need more conversation 18:37:14 should continue 18:37:57 q? 18:38:06 Visceral response from OASIS -- we shd reply to critique 18:38:59 Some of the OASIS community comes from a different perspective re. single info space 18:39:00 ack Marty 18:39:32 We need to discuss which XRI requirements could be satisfied by URI schemes 18:39:38 Jamie == James Bryce Clark ? 18:39:52 yes 18:40:05 Stuart: Summer is looming may be hard to schedule calls 18:40:23 Please use public mailing lists for technical discussion 18:40:33 HST votes for non-DNS authority as really central, and easiest to explore 18:40:44 Perhaps we need more focussed calls on some of Peters items 18:41:51 Peter: I agree on exploring single requirements 18:41:53 HST hopes that we stay on www-tag or somewhere similar -- we need more expertise than we have in this small group. . . 18:42:22 Drummond: Subgroups may be an efficient way to proceed 18:42:50 i agree ht. just challenging to follow this topic independent of the other topics on www-tag 18:42:55 Stuart: Let's go back and think abt subgoups 18:43:08 Drummond: We can also do f2f meetings 18:43:32 +q 18:43:33 thanks all! 18:43:35 jar has joined #tagmem 18:43:43 see some of you on #swig 18:43:47 -Dave_Orchard 18:43:57 Peter: We appreciate taking up your call ... look forward to further discussion 18:43:59 - +1.415.206.aall 18:44:00 -ht 18:44:00 by 18:44:00 -Norm 18:44:01 -peterdavis 18:44:02 -Stuart 18:44:03 -Drummond 18:44:04 - +1.617.513.aajj 18:44:05 Thanks all around 18:44:05 -jbradley_ve7jtb 18:44:06 -nikaj 18:44:08 -victor 18:44:10 -fhirsch 18:44:14 -??P2 18:44:14 Close of meeting 18:44:18 -MSabadello 18:44:20 Thank you Askhok for scribing 18:44:20 - +1.425.644.aahh 18:44:35 -lchasen 18:44:37 rrsagent, make logs public 18:44:52 thanks all 18:45:03 -TimBL 18:45:17 Thanks Ashok... let me know if you need help assembling the meeting record. Thx. 18:47:09 nikaj has left #tagmem 18:47:43 nikaj has joined #tagmem 18:47:50 nikaj has left #tagmem 18:50:17 -Ashok_Malhotra 18:50:23 - +1.310.293.aakk 18:50:56 Stuart ... do you know the URI for the log? 18:51:04 GabeW has left #tagmem 18:52:11 RRSAgent, pointer? 18:52:11 See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-tagmem-irc#T18-52-11 18:52:16 Ashok, there's the log 18:53:02 it's probably not readable, though; "RRSAgent, make logs member-access" or "... world-access" is probably neede 18:53:50 Got it! Thx! 19:34:01 zakim, list participants 19:34:01 As of this point the attendees have been Stuart, +aaaa, Ashok_Malhotra, Will, +1.443.864.aabb, DanC, +1.443.864.aacc, fhirsch, +1.206.364.aadd, jar, +1.703.650.aaee, Norm, 19:34:05 ... Drummond, TimBL, +aaff, +1.703.728.aagg, lchasen, [IPcaller], ht, +1.425.644.aahh, +1.925.686.aaii, victor, peterdavis, +1.617.513.aajj, +1.310.293.aakk, jbradley_ve7jtb, 19:34:07 ... +1.415.206.aall, +1.612.387.aamm, +43.195.8aann, MSabadello, nikaj, Dave_Orchard 19:49:50 -DanC 19:50:19 Norm has joined #tagmem 19:54:50 disconnecting the lone participant, +aaff, in TAG_Weekly()1:00PM 19:54:54 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended 19:54:55