IRC log of er on 2008-07-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:27:31 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #er

12:27:31 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc

12:27:37 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #er

12:27:45 [shadi]

zakim, this will be ert

12:27:45 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

12:27:51 [shadi]

meeting: ERT WG

12:27:55 [shadi]

chair: Shadi

12:28:34 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0001.html

12:28:48 [shadi]

agenda+ Review Pointers-in-RDF editor's draft

12:28:58 [shadi]

agenda+ Potential dates for upcoming face-to-face

12:29:28 [MikeS]

MikeS has joined #er

12:30:27 [CarlosV]

CarlosV has joined #er

12:30:44 [JohannesK]

JohannesK has joined #er

12:30:54 [shadi]

zakim, code?

12:30:54 [Zakim]

the conference code is 3794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), shadi

12:31:16 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has now started

12:31:23 [Zakim]

+JohannesK

12:31:25 [Zakim]

+ +1.857.362.aaaa

12:31:40 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

12:31:43 [MikeS]

zakim, IBM is MikeS

12:31:43 [Zakim]

+MikeS; got it

12:31:53 [shadi]

zakim, aaaa is me

12:31:53 [Zakim]

+shadi; got it

12:32:01 [carlosI]

carlosI has joined #er

12:32:47 [Zakim]

+JohannesK.a

12:33:13 [shadi]

zakim, johannesk.a is really CarlosV

12:33:14 [Zakim]

+CarlosV; got it

12:33:35 [Zakim]

+shadi.a

12:33:55 [shadi]

zakim, shadi.a is CarlosI

12:33:55 [Zakim]

+CarlosI; got it

12:35:20 [shadi]

scribe: Johannes

12:35:25 [shadi]

scribenick: JohannesK

12:35:34 [shadi]

agenda?

12:37:04 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

12:37:04 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Review Pointers-in-RDF editor's draft" taken up [from shadi]

12:37:11 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/Pointers/WD-Pointers-20080623

12:38:32 [shadi]

action: ERT WG discuss issue on rdfs:domain (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0002.html)

12:38:34 [JohannesK]

saz: comments to pointers draft?

12:38:54 [JohannesK]

s/to/on/

12:39:43 [JohannesK]

ms: abstract could be more verbose, general reader might not understand it

12:39:56 [shadi]

action: ERT WG discuss abstract section (to make it clearer for the average reader)

12:40:58 [JohannesK]

saz: test samples TF yesterday: there are no rules about when/how to use the different pointers

12:41:29 [shadi]

action: ERT WG discuss rules or conventions for using the pointers, to ensure consistency

12:42:50 [JohannesK]

ms: HTMLPointer (section 2.3.4)

12:44:01 [shadi]

action: ERT WG discuss what we gain by having a distinct HTML Pointer class

12:45:50 [JohannesK]

2.3.4. HTMLPointer Class [...] The following property must be included in resources of type CSSSelectorPointer. <-- change to HTMLPointer

12:46:30 [JohannesK]

ci: HTMLPointer can be used when markup is not valid/well-formed

12:46:47 [JohannesK]

ms: to me it looks like just an XPath expression

12:47:13 [JohannesK]

saz: maybe it needs more explanation in the document

12:47:45 [JohannesK]

saz: previous discussion XPath/XPointer

12:47:58 [shadi]

action: ERT WG discuss difference between XPointer and XPath (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0000.html)

12:48:52 [shadi]

actions?

12:49:39 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0000.html

12:51:04 [JohannesK]

jk: likes the XPointerPointer examples in CI's mail

12:52:59 [JohannesK]

ci: i just looked at the xpointer scheme, we don't need anything from XPointer framework apart from xpointer scheme, so let's reference the xpointer scheme, not the XPointer framework

12:53:28 [JohannesK]

+1

12:53:42 [MikeS]

+1

12:55:20 [JohannesK]

saz: proposal: make XPointerPointer subclass of XPathPointer

12:57:38 [JohannesK]

ci: SinglePointer points to single point, RangePointer points to a range, jk mentioned that you can select a range by using the XPointer range function(s) within a XPointerPointer which is a SinglePointer

12:58:50 [JohannesK]

ci: it's not the number of locations you get, but the number of expressions you use

13:02:09 [JohannesK]

ci: also CSSSelectorPointer can point to different locations with only one expression

13:03:03 [JohannesK]

ci: return to CompoundPointer vs. SinglePointer approach

13:04:56 [JohannesK]

cv: use examples with pointers in connection wirh document snippets

13:05:46 [JohannesK]

cv: so that readers can verify how the pointer is to be used

13:06:05 [JohannesK]

saz: e.g. an EARL document

13:06:35 [shadi]

action: ERT WG consider a real EARL report that could be used as examples in the different documents being developed

13:07:50 [JohannesK]

saz: a fifth level of hierarchy for pointer subclassing looks to complicated

13:08:47 [shadi]

action: ERT WG think about renaming RangePointer to CompundPointer

13:08:53 [JohannesK]

s/to/too/

13:10:07 [JohannesK]

saz: why is HTMLPointer not an ExpressionPointer

13:10:16 [JohannesK]

ci: we currently don't know what it is

13:11:37 [JohannesK]

ci: we don't know how it works

13:11:51 [JohannesK]

saz: it's just not documented

13:12:52 [JohannesK]

saz: note/guidance on how to use the pointers

13:13:15 [JohannesK]

+1

13:16:56 [JohannesK]

ms: e.g. radio button group (input elements) without fieldset element results in 5 errors

13:17:08 [JohannesK]

saz: you could use RelatedPointer

13:19:18 [JohannesK]

ci: we need consistency; e.g. LineCharPointer: do you point to the first character of the start tag, or last character of end tag, or ...?

13:22:59 [shadi]

proposal: add a new section 2 that describes the overall convention/usage (for example "point to the most specific element/attribute" etc), then add guidance/usage notes within the specific sections of the document where relevant

13:24:21 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

13:24:21 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Potential dates for upcoming face-to-face" taken up [from shadi]

13:25:16 [JohannesK]

saz: W3C technical plenary week Mandelieu near Cannes (France) October 20-24 2008

13:26:39 [JohannesK]

saz: we already missed the deadline, but maybe we can get a room

13:27:05 [JohannesK]

ms: difficult for me during that particular week

13:29:02 [JohannesK]

cv: I think I can manage to go to TPAC

13:29:39 [JohannesK]

saz: alternatives?

13:29:56 [JohannesK]

cv: we can host it any time in October

13:30:27 [JohannesK]

saz: Fraunhofer FIT St. Augustin near Bonn (Germany)

13:34:39 [JohannesK]

saz: or at W3C office before TPAC?

13:35:37 [JohannesK]

no telcon next week; next telcon: July 16th

13:35:53 [Zakim]

-MikeS

13:35:55 [Zakim]

-shadi

13:35:57 [Zakim]

-JohannesK

13:36:03 [Zakim]

-CarlosI

13:36:11 [MikeS]

Shadi - how do you spell the place in France where the TPAC is?

13:36:25 [JohannesK]

Mandelieu

13:36:28 [Zakim]

-CarlosV

13:36:30 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has ended

13:36:31 [Zakim]

Attendees were JohannesK, +1.857.362.aaaa, MikeS, shadi, CarlosV, CarlosI

13:37:00 [MikeS]

thx

14:07:15 [shadi]

zakim, bye

14:07:15 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #er

14:07:21 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:07:26 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:07:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-minutes.html shadi

14:07:28 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

14:07:33 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-actions.rdf :

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ERT WG discuss issue on rdfs:domain (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0002.html) [1]

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-38-32

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ERT WG discuss abstract section (to make it clearer for the average reader) [2]

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-39-56

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ERT WG discuss rules or conventions for using the pointers, to ensure consistency [3]

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-41-29

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ERT WG discuss what we gain by having a distinct HTML Pointer class [4]

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-44-01

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ERT WG discuss difference between XPointer and XPath (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0000.html) [5]

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-47-58

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ERT WG consider a real EARL report that could be used as examples in the different documents being developed [6]

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T13-06-35

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ERT WG think about renaming RangePointer to CompundPointer [7]

14:07:33 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T13-08-47