12:27:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
12:27:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc
12:27:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #er
12:27:45 <shadi> zakim, this will be ert
12:27:45 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
12:27:51 <shadi> meeting: ERT WG
12:27:55 <shadi> chair: Shadi
12:28:34 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0001.html
12:28:48 <shadi> agenda+ Review Pointers-in-RDF editor's draft
12:28:58 <shadi> agenda+ Potential dates for upcoming face-to-face
12:29:28 <MikeS> MikeS has joined #er
12:30:27 <CarlosV> CarlosV has joined #er
12:30:44 <JohannesK> JohannesK has joined #er
12:30:54 <shadi> zakim, code?
12:30:54 <Zakim> the conference code is 3794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), shadi
12:31:16 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has now started
12:31:23 <Zakim> +JohannesK
12:31:25 <Zakim> + +1.857.362.aaaa
12:31:40 <Zakim> +[IBM]
12:31:43 <MikeS> zakim, IBM is MikeS
12:31:43 <Zakim> +MikeS; got it
12:31:53 <shadi> zakim, aaaa is me
12:31:53 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
12:32:01 <carlosI> carlosI has joined #er
12:32:47 <Zakim> +JohannesK.a
12:33:13 <shadi> zakim, johannesk.a is really CarlosV
12:33:14 <Zakim> +CarlosV; got it
12:33:35 <Zakim> +shadi.a
12:33:55 <shadi> zakim, shadi.a is CarlosI
12:33:55 <Zakim> +CarlosI; got it
12:35:20 <shadi> scribe: Johannes
12:35:25 <shadi> scribenick: JohannesK
12:35:34 <shadi> agenda?
12:37:04 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
12:37:04 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Review Pointers-in-RDF editor's draft" taken up [from shadi]
12:37:11 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/Pointers/WD-Pointers-20080623
12:38:32 <shadi> action: ERT WG discuss issue on rdfs:domain (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0002.html)
12:38:34 <JohannesK> saz: comments to pointers draft?
12:38:54 <JohannesK> s/to/on/
12:39:43 <JohannesK> ms: abstract could be more verbose, general reader might not understand it
12:39:56 <shadi> action: ERT WG discuss abstract section (to make it clearer for the average reader)
12:40:58 <JohannesK> saz: test samples TF yesterday: there are no rules about when/how to use the different pointers
12:41:29 <shadi> action: ERT WG discuss rules or conventions for using the pointers, to ensure consistency
12:42:50 <JohannesK> ms: HTMLPointer (section 2.3.4)
12:44:01 <shadi> action: ERT WG discuss what we gain by having a distinct HTML Pointer class
12:45:50 <JohannesK> 2.3.4. HTMLPointer Class [...] The following property must be included in resources of type CSSSelectorPointer.  <-- change to HTMLPointer
12:46:30 <JohannesK> ci: HTMLPointer can be used when markup is not valid/well-formed
12:46:47 <JohannesK> ms: to me it looks like just an XPath expression
12:47:13 <JohannesK> saz: maybe it needs more explanation in the document
12:47:45 <JohannesK> saz: previous discussion XPath/XPointer
12:47:58 <shadi> action: ERT WG discuss difference between XPointer and XPath (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0000.html)
12:48:52 <shadi> actions?
12:49:39 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0000.html
12:51:04 <JohannesK> jk: likes the XPointerPointer examples in CI's mail
12:52:59 <JohannesK> ci: i just looked at the xpointer scheme, we don't need anything from XPointer framework apart from xpointer scheme, so let's reference the xpointer scheme, not the XPointer framework
12:53:28 <JohannesK> +1
12:53:42 <MikeS> +1
12:55:20 <JohannesK> saz: proposal: make XPointerPointer subclass of XPathPointer
12:57:38 <JohannesK> ci: SinglePointer points to single point, RangePointer points to a range, jk mentioned that you can select a range by using the XPointer range function(s) within a XPointerPointer which is a SinglePointer
12:58:50 <JohannesK> ci: it's not the number of locations you get, but the number of expressions you use
13:02:09 <JohannesK> ci: also CSSSelectorPointer can point to different locations with only one expression
13:03:03 <JohannesK> ci: return to CompoundPointer vs. SinglePointer approach
13:04:56 <JohannesK> cv: use examples with pointers in connection wirh document snippets
13:05:46 <JohannesK> cv: so that readers can verify how the pointer is to be used
13:06:05 <JohannesK> saz: e.g. an EARL document
13:06:35 <shadi> action: ERT WG consider a real EARL report that could be used as examples in the different documents being developed
13:07:50 <JohannesK> saz: a fifth level of hierarchy for pointer subclassing looks to complicated
13:08:47 <shadi> action: ERT WG think about renaming RangePointer to CompundPointer
13:08:53 <JohannesK> s/to/too/
13:10:07 <JohannesK> saz: why is HTMLPointer not an ExpressionPointer
13:10:16 <JohannesK> ci: we currently don't know what it is
13:11:37 <JohannesK> ci: we don't know how it works
13:11:51 <JohannesK> saz: it's just not documented
13:12:52 <JohannesK> saz: note/guidance on how to use the pointers
13:13:15 <JohannesK> +1
13:16:56 <JohannesK> ms: e.g. radio button group (input elements) without fieldset element results in 5 errors
13:17:08 <JohannesK> saz: you could use RelatedPointer
13:19:18 <JohannesK> ci: we need consistency; e.g. LineCharPointer: do you point to the first character of the start tag, or last character of end tag, or ...?
13:22:59 <shadi> proposal: add a new section 2 that describes the overall convention/usage (for example "point to the most specific element/attribute" etc), then add guidance/usage notes within the specific sections of the document where relevant
13:24:21 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:24:21 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Potential dates for upcoming face-to-face" taken up [from shadi]
13:25:16 <JohannesK> saz: W3C technical plenary week Mandelieu near Cannes (France) October 20-24 2008
13:26:39 <JohannesK> saz: we already missed the deadline, but maybe we can get a room
13:27:05 <JohannesK> ms: difficult for me during that particular week
13:29:02 <JohannesK> cv: I think I can manage to go to TPAC
13:29:39 <JohannesK> saz: alternatives?
13:29:56 <JohannesK> cv: we can host it any time in October
13:30:27 <JohannesK> saz: Fraunhofer FIT St. Augustin near Bonn (Germany)
13:34:39 <JohannesK> saz: or at W3C office before TPAC?
13:35:37 <JohannesK> no telcon next week; next telcon: July 16th
13:35:53 <Zakim> -MikeS
13:35:55 <Zakim> -shadi
13:35:57 <Zakim> -JohannesK
13:36:03 <Zakim> -CarlosI
13:36:11 <MikeS> Shadi - how do you spell the place in France where the TPAC is?
13:36:25 <JohannesK> Mandelieu
13:36:28 <Zakim> -CarlosV
13:36:30 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has ended
13:36:31 <Zakim> Attendees were JohannesK, +1.857.362.aaaa, MikeS, shadi, CarlosV, CarlosI
13:37:00 <MikeS> thx
14:07:15 <shadi> zakim, bye
14:07:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #er
14:07:21 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:07:26 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:07:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-minutes.html shadi
14:07:28 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:07:33 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-actions.rdf :
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ERT WG discuss issue on rdfs:domain (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0002.html) [1]
14:07:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-38-32
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ERT WG discuss abstract section (to make it clearer for the average reader) [2]
14:07:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-39-56
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ERT WG discuss rules or conventions for using the pointers, to ensure consistency [3]
14:07:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-41-29
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ERT WG discuss what we gain by having a distinct HTML Pointer class [4]
14:07:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-44-01
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ERT WG discuss difference between XPointer and XPath (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Jul/0000.html) [5]
14:07:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T12-47-58
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ERT WG consider a real EARL report that could be used as examples in the different documents being developed [6]
14:07:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T13-06-35
14:07:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ERT WG think about renaming RangePointer to CompundPointer [7]
14:07:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-er-irc#T13-08-47