IRC log of waf on 2008-06-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:03:51 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-irc

11:04:22 [Zakim]

+Art_Barstow

11:04:42 [Zakim]

+??P8

11:04:53 [ArtB]

zakim, ??P8 is Marcos

11:04:53 [Zakim]

+Marcos; got it

11:06:00 [ArtB]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webapps/2008AprJun/0010.html

11:06:07 [ArtB]

Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference

11:06:11 [ArtB]

Date: 26 June 2008

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Chair: Art

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Scribe: Art

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ScribeNick: ArtB

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Regrets: Arve, Mike

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Present: Art, Marcos, Josh

11:08:02 [ArtB]

Topic: Review Agenda

11:08:14 [ArtB]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webapps/2008AprJun/0010.html

11:08:29 [ArtB]

AB: any change requests?

11:09:47 [ArtB]

AB: I'd like to add to the agenda a discussion about the Widgets agenda being public or not

11:09:54 [ArtB]

AB: any objections?

11:09:56 [ArtB]

MC: no

11:09:58 [ArtB]

JS: no

11:10:20 [ArtB]

Topic: Announcements

11:10:26 [ArtB]

AB: any annoucements?

11:10:57 [ArtB]

AB: no meeting July 3 or July 10

11:11:17 [ArtB]

AB: when do you return from the UK, Marcos

11:11:22 [ArtB]

MC: late July

11:11:50 [ArtB]

JS: I'll be out the last week of July and then in October

11:12:05 [ArtB]

Topic: Meeting Logistics and Agenda

11:12:26 [ArtB]

MC: why is this meeting being done in a member confidential channel?

11:12:31 [ArtB]

AB: good question

11:12:35 [ArtB]

... because I'm lazy

11:13:28 [ArtB]

... it's a lot easier for me as the Scribe for us to use a member-only channel that makes it easy to remove any Member-only/confidential discussions that may arrive

11:13:52 [ArtB]

... If no such discussions occur, then 100% of the IRC log becomes the Public minutes

11:14:56 [ArtB]

AB: any objections to the Agenda being sent on the Public-Webapps mail list?

11:15:10 [ArtB]

AB: that's OK with me

11:15:13 [ArtB]

JS: OK with me

11:15:16 [ArtB]

MC: OK with me

11:16:07 [ArtB]

ACTION: barstow propose all future Widget agendas be Public and give the WG two weeks to discuss/object

11:16:07 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-188 - Propose all future Widget agendas be Public and give the WG two weeks to discuss/object [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-07-03].

11:16:34 [ArtB]

Topic: Comments on the Requirements LC doc

11:16:41 [ArtB]

AB: thanks Marcos for getting this out!

11:16:48 [ArtB]

JS: I sent Marcos comments already

11:17:14 [ArtB]

... I sent him some additional comments

11:17:25 [ArtB]

... I still have some more comments to submit

11:18:41 [ArtB]

AB: Marcos, anything you want to discuss?

11:19:07 [ArtB]

MC: it's hard to discuss some of the issues without Arve being present

11:19:23 [ArtB]

... e.g. he proposed the Security Model

11:19:47 [ArtB]

MC: we also need to have Thomas present for any detailed discussions about Dig Signatures

11:20:10 [ArtB]

MC: Josh raised some good issues that we need to discuss

11:20:16 [Lachy]

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11:20:57 [ArtB]

... thanks for sending the comments!

11:21:26 [ArtB]

AB: an action for me, really to make sure we get the right people on the calls re Dig Sig and Security

11:21:53 [ArtB]

... We should also try to get Thomas to attend the Turin meeting

11:22:10 [ArtB]

ACTION: Barstow invite Thomas to the Turin meeting re Dig Sig and Security

11:22:12 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-189 - Invite Thomas to the Turin meeting re Dig Sig and Security [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-07-03].

11:22:54 [ArtB]

AB: can you describe the Tracker your using for LC comments, Marcos?

11:24:01 [ArtB]

MC: it's a simple system and addresses many of my requirements

11:24:45 [ArtB]

AB: http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD-widgets-reqs-20080625

11:24:56 [ArtB]

AB: nice, I see Marcos is already using it

11:25:13 [ArtB]

... I like the consistency we can get if everyone uses it

11:25:31 [ArtB]

AB: the only issue I see is the data is Member-confidential

11:25:42 [ArtB]

MC: that's more of an annoyance then a concern

11:26:28 [ArtB]

... If people want the data Public, I can do it in a text file

11:27:02 [ArtB]

... or if it has a report generator that creates a text format that would be good

11:27:32 [ArtB]

Topic: Josh's Short Intro

11:27:43 [ArtB]

JS: I've been with Mozilla for about eight years

11:27:51 [ArtB]

... working on a bunch of different things

11:28:17 [ArtB]

... I've also worked in Security and mobile content

11:28:42 [ArtB]

... I currently work on Nokia's Internet Tablet product

11:29:06 [ArtB]

... WRT WebApps, I'm mainly interested in the Widgets work

11:29:41 [ArtB]

AB: it's good to get some "new eyes" looking at our specs

11:29:46 [ArtB]

MC: yes, it's really helpful

11:30:45 [ArtB]

ACTION: Barstow talk to Yahoo!'s AC rep about joining WebApps and participating in the Widgets work

11:30:45 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-190 - Talk to Yahoo!'s AC rep about joining WebApps and participating in the Widgets work [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-07-03].

11:32:36 [ArtB]

Topic: Open Actions

11:32:54 [ArtB]

AB: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/waf/products/5

11:35:11 [ArtB]

ACTION: Barstow close Issue #17 - we will include Auto Updates in v1.0

11:35:11 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-191 - Close Issue #17 - we will include Auto Updates in v1.0 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-07-03].

11:36:50 [ArtB]

AB: Action #24 - http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/waf/issues/24

11:37:02 [ArtB]

AB: we need to define some type of extension mechanism

11:37:08 [ArtB]

JS: yes, this is important

11:37:21 [ArtB]

MC: I sent a proposal but it didn't get much support

11:38:54 [ArtB]

ACTION: Barstow close #24 and re-open a new issue that emphasizes the issue raised in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008AprJun/0312.html

11:38:54 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-192 - Close #24 and re-open a new issue that emphasizes the issue raised in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008AprJun/0312.html [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-07-03].

11:39:55 [ArtB]

MC: I can close Action #122

11:41:39 [ArtB]

AB: it would to close as many of these as possible to minimize the number that need to copied to WebApps

11:41:56 [ArtB]

MC: we can close #139 but should check with Charles first

11:42:27 [ArtB]

AB: I will close #140 after I ask WSC WG to review the LC doc

11:43:39 [ArtB]

AB: what about #143?

11:43:56 [ArtB]

MC: we've discussed this and deciced we want to "sign everything"

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11:47:01 [ArtB]

MC: I recommend we close #143

11:47:10 [ArtB]

AB: OK with me

11:47:14 [ArtB]

JS: me too

11:48:17 [marcos]

MC: closed 187

11:48:58 [ArtB]

MC: OK, I'll close it

11:49:07 [marcos]

MC: closed 185

11:50:15 [ArtB]

JS: 19 Dec 2007, Art said he would ask Nokia for a widget security model - part of Action #144

11:50:25 [ArtB]

AB: I'm sure I asked for it

11:50:39 [ArtB]

... but I didn't get anything I could share with the public

11:53:00 [ArtB]

Topic: Digital Signature

11:53:34 [ArtB]

JS: did you Art make any progress on Action #183 http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/waf/actions/183 - Investigate Java model for multiple signatures

11:54:30 [ArtB]

AB: yes, I got some info

11:55:11 [ArtB]

... In MIDP 2.1, only one signature is allowed in a JAR file

11:55:26 [ArtB]

... MIDP 3.0, a JAR can contain multiple signatures

11:55:37 [ArtB]

MC: we need to raise an issue on this then

11:55:50 [ArtB]

... we need to know "how many signatures to support?"

11:56:00 [ArtB]

... I think we were moving to supporting multiple

11:56:32 [ArtB]

JS: multiple sigs can be useful when certs come from multiple sources

11:57:23 [ArtB]

MC: a question is whether the signature is signed or the contents is signed more than once

11:58:19 [ArtB]

AB: Certificate chaining is supported and deployed widely, I think any signature specification including the widgets signing spec should support it.

11:58:31 [ArtB]

MC: we are doing that now

11:59:00 [ArtB]

AB: Multiple signing is more uncommon. In MIDP, multiple signatures are "parallel" i.e. every signer signs the content independently, signers do not sign each other's signatures

11:59:44 [ArtB]

MC: we don't have a solution for either of these at the moment

12:00:37 [ArtB]

AB: where is "certificate chaining" defined?

12:00:45 [ArtB]

MC: XML Signature spec defines it

12:02:50 [ArtB]

MC: it would be good to outline the major use cases in the Dig Sig spec

12:03:22 [ArtB]

... I can create those use cases

12:03:58 [ArtB]

JS: I can contribute; this document is important

12:04:06 [ArtB]

... and I will submit comments on it

12:05:32 [ArtB]

JS: what is the plan for Dig Sig spec?

12:05:50 [ArtB]

MC: the core validation stuff needs to fleshed out

12:06:10 [ArtB]

... Getting the core done is most important

12:06:44 [ArtB]

MC: I will try to coordinate working with Josh

12:08:02 [ArtB]

Topic: AOB

12:08:21 [ArtB]

MC: I plan to focus on Auto Updates next week

12:09:15 [ArtB]

... want to get that published soon-ish

12:09:51 [ArtB]

... certainly before the f2f in Turin

12:10:16 [ArtB]

MC: I'm concerned about the Security spec and the API spec

12:14:51 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

12:14:59 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make minutes

12:14:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-minutes.html ArtB

12:16:09 [ArtB]

AB: I'll be on vacation the next two weeks. Return to the Inbox on July 14.

12:16:15 [marcos]

MC: Will be on Vacation on 5-10th

12:17:02 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make minutes

12:17:02 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-minutes.html ArtB

12:18:30 [Zakim]

-Art_Barstow

12:18:32 [Zakim]

- +358.504.86aaaa

12:18:58 [ArtB]

zakim, bye

12:18:58 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were +358.504.86aaaa, Art_Barstow, Marcos

12:18:58 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #waf

12:19:08 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, bye

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-actions.rdf :

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: barstow propose all future Widget agendas be Public and give the WG two weeks to discuss/object [1]

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-irc#T11-16-07

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Barstow invite Thomas to the Turin meeting re Dig Sig and Security [2]

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-irc#T11-22-10

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Barstow talk to Yahoo!'s AC rep about joining WebApps and participating in the Widgets work [3]

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-irc#T11-30-45

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Barstow close Issue #17 - we will include Auto Updates in v1.0 [4]

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-irc#T11-35-11

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Barstow close #24 and re-open a new issue that emphasizes the issue raised in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008AprJun/0312.html [5]

12:19:08 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-waf-irc#T11-38-54