IRC log of rdfa on 2008-06-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:54:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:54:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc
14:55:01 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:55:06 [Ralph]
Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF
14:55:11 [Ralph]
zakim, this will be rdfa
14:55:13 [Zakim]
ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:24 [Ralph]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Jun/0134.html
14:55:39 [Ralph]
Regrets: Ben, Michael
14:57:34 [Ralph]
-> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-rdfa-minutes previous 2007-06-19
14:59:24 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
14:59:26 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:59:33 [msporny]
zakim, I am IPcaller
14:59:33 [Zakim]
ok, msporny, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
14:59:49 [Zakim]
+Ralph
15:00:37 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
15:00:37 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller.a]
15:00:37 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
15:00:48 [ShaneM]
zakim, IPcaller.a is ShaneM
15:00:48 [Zakim]
+ShaneM; got it
15:00:57 [markbirbeck]
markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:01:17 [markbirbeck]
zakim, code?
15:01:17 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:01:27 [markbirbeck]
zakim, who is here?
15:01:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IPcaller], Ralph, ShaneM
15:01:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see markbirbeck, Zakim, RRSAgent, Ralph, msporny, myakura, ShaneM
15:01:43 [Ralph]
zakim, [ipcaller] is Manu
15:01:49 [Zakim]
+Manu; got it
15:02:30 [Zakim]
+??P55
15:02:33 [markbirbeck]
zakim, i am ?
15:02:33 [Zakim]
+markbirbeck; got it
15:02:57 [Ralph]
Chair: Manu
15:03:00 [Ralph]
Scribe: Ralph
15:03:10 [Ralph]
ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
15:03:12 [Ralph]
-- continues
15:03:24 [Ralph]
ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get RDFa integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
15:03:57 [Ralph]
-- done
15:03:57 [Ralph]
Manu: I've been talking with @@ and he said he'd be more than happy to accept a patch.
15:04:11 [Ralph]
ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot
15:04:21 [msporny]
Jamie McCarthy
15:04:30 [Ralph]
s/@@/Jamie McCarthy/
15:05:08 [Ralph]
Shane: operator only notices RDFa in a page if one of our new attributes is used in the page. This is a bug.
15:05:25 [Ralph]
Manu: I believe this implementation is Elias' code
15:05:39 [Ralph]
... may be a month or two behind the spec
15:06:08 [Ralph]
Shane: perhaps they decided that this was a clever way to infer an announcement
15:06:16 [Ralph]
ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
15:06:19 [Ralph]
-- continues
15:06:26 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Ralph confirm whether LGPL is ok with W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
15:06:42 [Ralph]
Ralph: LGPL is OK for the XSLT, particularly since it's non-normative
15:07:00 [Ralph]
Topic: Tools for RDFa authors
15:07:15 [Ralph]
Manu: we've received some criticism that we haven't provided enough teaching tools
15:07:21 [Ralph]
... we could create more wiki examples
15:07:37 [Ralph]
Shane: to some extent it's about design patterns
15:07:54 [Ralph]
... so one way to teach the technology is to show lots of best practices design patterns
15:08:01 [markbirbeck]
you keep cutting out Shane
15:08:21 [Ralph]
Shane: if you're a microformat user and want to transition to RDFa, what would you need to do?
15:08:32 [Ralph]
... these are two different audiences and we may need to address them both
15:08:44 [markbirbeck]
q+
15:09:02 [Ralph]
... might antagonize some, however
15:09:40 [Ralph]
Mark: opinions can evolve over the years
15:10:16 [Ralph]
... we've offered an outreached hand to show how microformats can use parts of RDFa
15:10:41 [Ralph]
... there's lots of momentum now [for RDFa]
15:11:51 [Ralph]
... I'd suggest making sure we've covered all the non-microformat examples first
15:11:59 [Ralph]
... e.g. ones where there is no vocabulary
15:12:03 [Steven]
Steven has joined #rdfa
15:12:13 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
15:12:20 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:12:21 [ShaneM]
q+ about things that have RDF basis already
15:12:22 [Zakim]
+Steven
15:12:27 [Ralph]
Manu: yes, there's some basic examples we don't yet have in the wiki
15:12:41 [Ralph]
... these are things people tend to mark-up often
15:13:03 [Ralph]
... effectively this is FOAF, vEvent; people+places+event
15:13:19 [Ralph]
... chemistry might be interesting; depends on our goals
15:13:41 [Ralph]
... definitely do chemistry if our goal is to help people who can't currently use microformats
15:14:11 [Ralph]
... other examples are higher priority if our goal is to address large numbers of users
15:14:24 [Ralph]
Mark: geolocation also nice and simple
15:14:25 [ShaneM]
GEO location is dead easy, fwiw.
15:15:09 [Steven]
rrsagent, here?
15:15:09 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-15-09
15:15:15 [Ralph]
Shane: Dan Brickley's geolocation vocabulary "just works"
15:15:27 [Steven]
rrsagent, make log public
15:15:48 [ShaneM]
There are some existing vocabularies that just work.... let's use them in our examples
15:15:48 [Ralph]
Shane: the cool thing is that we didn't have to do anything in RDFa; the RDF vocabulary just worked
15:16:05 [Ralph]
s/anything/anything special/
15:16:21 [Ralph]
Manu: can we pick 5 or six to work on for the wiki and each pick one?
15:16:29 [Steven]
I did Vevent already
15:16:35 [Ralph]
... I'll take haudio plus one other, perhaps foaf or vevent
15:16:36 [Steven]
Happy to expand
15:16:38 [Ralph]
Mark: I'll take foaf
15:17:12 [Ralph]
ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki
15:17:19 [Ralph]
ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki
15:17:27 [Ralph]
ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki
15:17:38 [markbirbeck]
http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2008/02/first-steps-in-rdfa-creating-foaf.html
15:17:40 [Ralph]
ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki
15:17:53 [Ralph]
Shane: "the wiki" means which wiki?
15:17:57 [Ralph]
Manu: rdfa.info/wiki
15:18:17 [ShaneM]
http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Wiki
15:19:05 [Ralph]
Manu: the short form we prefer to cite is http://rdfa.info/wiki
15:19:19 [Ralph]
... go to Tutorials; add examples there
15:19:39 [Ralph]
Shane: I don't seem to have edit access
15:19:44 [Ralph]
Manu: I'll check the permissions
15:19:59 [Ralph]
ACTION: Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki
15:20:54 [Ralph]
Shane: there is an hcard example already, but how about vcard ?
15:21:26 [Ralph]
Mark: superceded by foaf?
15:21:38 [Ralph]
Manu: some (large?) overlap but there are differences
15:21:49 [Ralph]
Mark: but foaf has deployment and vcard really doesn't
15:22:01 [Ralph]
Shane: how about RSS?
15:22:08 [Steven]
+1 to RSS
15:22:15 [Steven]
+100 to RSS in fact
15:22:20 [Ralph]
Mark: SearchMonkey has an RSS+RDFa mode
15:22:40 [Ralph]
ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa
15:22:57 [ShaneM]
FWIW I tried to do some RSS annotation in this page: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/
15:23:24 [Ralph]
Manu: next can think about some javascript tools to generate the markup for some of these
15:23:39 [Ralph]
... would be nice to have a unified architecture to create these wizards
15:24:08 [Ralph]
... is there something already in existence we could use for this?
15:24:26 [Ralph]
Mark: yes, we have an ajax library that would be suitable
15:24:48 [Ralph]
Manu: extensible to other formats?
15:24:50 [Ralph]
Mark: yes
15:25:19 [Ralph]
... new version no longer requires a browser plug-in
15:25:31 [Ralph]
... might be ready within the next month
15:25:53 [Ralph]
ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
15:27:47 [Ralph]
Manu: anything we want to work with MikeK on operator?
15:28:04 [Ralph]
Shane: he's focusing right now on changing the way operators are invoked
15:28:30 [Ralph]
... I'd like to see a way to map in well-known handlers for RDF vocabularies
15:28:44 [Ralph]
... unfortunately they don't currently detect all RDFa
15:29:12 [Ralph]
Manu: Mike has been very open to accepting patches
15:29:21 [Ralph]
... he'd really like someone to collaborate with him
15:30:25 [Ralph]
... anyone have any spare cycles to work with him?
15:31:34 [Ralph]
Mark: my plan is to finish what I've been working on and document it
15:31:56 [Ralph]
... once it's working, I will throw it open for discussion
15:32:15 [Ralph]
... I have formats for jason, for sparql, ...
15:32:45 [Ralph]
... I'd be happy to talk with Mike after I have this stable and working
15:33:31 [Ralph]
Manu: the demos you did, Mark, in your Google talk would make wonderful 5-minute snips
15:33:42 [Ralph]
... to help people 'get' RDFa and why it's so useful
15:33:57 [Ralph]
Steven: Ben had some demos about adding RDFa to digg and others
15:34:16 [Ralph]
... at least, I heard that he did
15:34:44 [Ralph]
Mark: may be a demo that I did
15:34:45 [markbirbeck]
http://code.google.com/p/ubiquity-rdfa/wiki/TutorialIntroduction
15:36:16 [Ralph]
Manu: my suggestion is several 5-minute screencasts
15:37:54 [msporny]
Shane: xvidcap + Blender + audacity
15:38:33 [Ralph]
s/Shane:/Manu: to create screencasts, I use/
15:39:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph
15:39:09 [Steven]
+1
15:39:48 [Steven]
Tidy for f
15:39:57 [Ralph]
Manu: what do you think about Ben's idea to create a web service that accepts an HTML page containing microformat data and outputting an RDFa formatted page?
15:40:05 [Ralph]
ufTidy :)
15:40:33 [Ralph]
Shane: we only define RDFa in the context of XHTML
15:40:46 [Ralph]
... most uf users are using HTML, not XHTML
15:41:03 [Ralph]
... tidy does an ok job of trying really hard to fix HTML, but it can break it
15:41:53 [Ralph]
... [unfortunately] there's a perception out there that XHTML isn't sufficiently portable
15:42:23 [Ralph]
Mark: I give priority to getting RDFa into drupal, flickr, upcoming.org, etc.
15:43:12 [Ralph]
Manu: I agree with Mark. Don't want to reignite a uf vs. RDFa war
15:43:46 [Ralph]
... let's focus on getting people to use RDFa rather than converting people who are using uf
15:44:07 [Ralph]
Shane: one way to get a bigger win is to approach the tool and environment maintainers
15:44:19 [Ralph]
... let's help them
15:44:33 [Ralph]
... operator is a priority for me because it enables the _use_ of RDFa
15:45:10 [Ralph]
... getting _browsers_ to do something with RDF[a] will make RDF[a] truly useful
15:45:26 [Ralph]
Steven: travel sites can offer a link to book a hotel and earn money
15:45:43 [Ralph]
... if someone books a flight or a hotel by following a link in a browser
15:45:59 [Ralph]
... RDFa provides a model for earning money this way
15:49:06 [Ralph]
Manu: how about the MSIE folk?
15:49:21 [Ralph]
Shane: MSIE doesn't really support XHTML yet
15:50:22 [Ralph]
... however, it would not take very long to define an HTML profile for RDFa
15:50:57 [Ralph]
Steven: there's no reason why browsers couldn't recognize @xmlns: even if they think the document is HTML
15:51:02 [Ralph]
... it's just a token
15:51:19 [Ralph]
... we don't really require namespace processing in the DOM
15:51:30 [Ralph]
... the current javascript stuff is all working on the DOM already
15:52:08 [Ralph]
Shane: @lang vs. @xml:lang
15:52:13 [Ralph]
Mark: yeah, that's a tricky one
15:52:40 [Ralph]
... MSIE actually disallows checking for @xml:lang, though it does allow other @xml:* attributes
15:55:28 [Ralph]
[adjourned]
15:55:42 [Zakim]
-Ralph
15:55:45 [Zakim]
-Steven
15:55:46 [Zakim]
-ShaneM
15:55:48 [Zakim]
-Manu
15:55:48 [Zakim]
-markbirbeck
15:55:48 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
15:55:49 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ralph, ShaneM, Manu, markbirbeck, Steven
15:55:54 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:55:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph
15:55:55 [Ralph]
zakim, bye
15:55:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdfa
15:56:26 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-actions.rdf :
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [1]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-03-10
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get RDFa integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [2]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-03-24
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [3]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-04-11
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [4]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-06-16
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki [5]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-17-12
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [6]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-17-19
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki [7]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-17-27
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki [8]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-17-40
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki [9]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-19-59
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [10]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-22-40
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [11]
15:56:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc#T15-25-53
15:56:36 [msporny]
Thanks for scribing yet again, Ralph! :)