12:44:35 RRSAgent has joined #egov 12:44:35 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-irc 12:44:37 RRSAgent, make logs public 12:44:37 Zakim has joined #egov 12:44:39 Zakim, this will be 46005 12:44:39 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 12:44:40 Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference 12:44:40 Date: 25 June 2008 12:46:18 dom has joined #egov 12:46:23 zakim, list conferences 12:46:23 I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM active 12:46:24 also scheduled at this time are XML_SMLWG()3:00AM, T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, XML_QueryWG()3:00AM, XML_XSLWG()3:00AM 12:48:43 Zakim, what is the code? 12:48:43 sorry, kjetil, I don't know what conference this is 12:49:09 zakim, this will be EGOV 12:49:09 ok, dom; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes 12:49:12 zakim, code? 12:49:12 the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom 12:49:13 Zakim, what is the code? 12:49:14 the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), kjetil 12:49:19 right :-) 12:49:39 dom has left #egov 12:49:54 pasquale has joined #egov 12:50:17 ah, things are looking better now :) 12:50:22 agenda? 12:51:04 chair: kevin, josema 12:52:02 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2008Jun/0002 12:52:27 meeting: eGov IG kick-off 12:52:51 Mercedes has joined #egov 12:53:32 agenda+ Scribe selection [2min] 12:53:50 agenda+ Welcome and practicalities [15min] 12:53:52 vassilios has joined #egov 12:54:08 agenda+ Review of Agenda Items [2min] 12:54:21 agenda+ Intro: 2 minutes round the table [15min] 12:54:33 agenda+ Use Cases and Requirements [35min] 12:54:50 agenda+ Liaisons: review charter ones, new proposed ones [15min] 12:54:59 agenda+ Next Meeting [5min] 12:55:02 agenda? 12:58:01 T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started 12:58:10 + +43.316.873.aaaa 12:58:10 +CDT 12:58:17 +Josema 12:58:17 +??P11 12:58:43 + +46.8.55.05.aabb 12:58:43 + +2 12:58:47 hi all from Naples, Italy, for now I only can irc 12:58:55 hi pasquale 12:59:04 hi 12:59:58 zakim, who's here? 12:59:58 On the phone I see +43.316.873.aaaa, CDT, Josema, ??P11, +2, +46.8.55.05.aabb 13:00:00 On IRC I see vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, s-mon, kjetil 13:00:05 + +7.711.aadd 13:00:08 Afternoon - I have a begged an open port from ICTD for the next two hours just to be here 13:00:22 Zakim, aadd is me 13:00:22 +darobin; got it 13:00:23 peter_krantz has joined #egov 13:00:24 I suspect Mercedescs is also me, so can be ignored 13:00:36 Zakim, mute me 13:00:36 darobin should now be muted 13:00:55 + +47.67.83.aaee 13:01:05 Zakim, aaee is me 13:01:05 +kjetil; got it 13:01:14 hi kjetil :) 13:01:49 Zakim, mute me 13:01:49 kjetil should now be muted 13:02:06 +??P16 13:02:25 zakim, +??P16 is john 13:02:25 sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named '+??P16' 13:02:32 zakim, ??P16 is john 13:02:32 +john; got it 13:02:54 agenda? 13:03:11 RobertoCastaldo has joined #egov 13:03:21 Hi all :-) 13:03:33 Hi! 13:03:36 hi! 13:03:43 + +1.301.455.aaff 13:03:48 zakim, who's here 13:03:48 josema, you need to end that query with '?' 13:03:53 zakim, who's here? 13:03:53 On the phone I see +43.316.873.aaaa, CDT, Josema, ??P11, +2, +46.8.55.05.aabb, darobin (muted), kjetil (muted), john, +1.301.455.aaff 13:03:55 On IRC I see RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, s-mon, kjetil 13:03:57 +??P18 13:04:17 Zakim, ??P18 is RobertoCastaldo 13:04:17 +RobertoCastaldo; got it 13:04:31 np :-) 13:04:39 zakim, +46.8.55.05.aabb is peter_krantz 13:04:39 +peter_krantz; got it 13:04:41 I didn't hear the previous one, was it Owen something? 13:05:02 yep, maybe Owen Ambur 13:05:21 + +1.202.626.aagg 13:05:35 Zakim, aaff is OwenAmbur 13:05:35 +OwenAmbur; got it 13:05:47 zakim, aagg is kevin 13:05:47 +kevin; got it 13:06:05 agenda? 13:08:05 Zakim, unmute me 13:08:05 darobin should no longer be muted 13:08:40 I am not familiar with the scribing principles yet and would like to know the formalities first. 13:08:57 Scribe: darobin 13:09:15 sorry, I'm not able to continue for now, 10 minutes and I'll return 13:09:36 Zakim, mute me 13:09:36 darobin should now be muted 13:09:44 move to next agendum 13:09:44 agendum 1. "Scribe selection" taken up [from 2min] 13:09:49 move to next agendum 13:09:49 agendum 1 was just opened, josema 13:09:56 close this agendum 13:10:00 move to next agendum 13:10:00 agendum 2. "Welcome and practicalities" taken up [from 15min] 13:10:36 JA: I'll explain how things work, please talk to me if you have problems 13:10:58 JA: it's not mandatory to be on IRC, but it's helpful 13:11:12 JA: it makes scribing and out-of-band discussion easier 13:11:39 JA: there are details on http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Teleconferences 13:12:04 JA: we are scheduled to meet every other week 13:13:02 JA: it's hard to find a good time, rotating schedules can be done but we're not sure they work — opinions welcome 13:13:12 johnlsheridan has joined #egov 13:13:24 ari has joined #egov 13:13:30 JA: this time is not so good for Asia, and really bad for AU/NZ 13:14:06 agenda? 13:14:10 [group is silent] 13:14:15 s-mon has left #egov 13:14:39 JA: is this time okay? 13:14:47 Silent assent from the group 13:14:57 It works for me 13:15:06 should be ok for me 13:15:07 RESOLUTION: the telcon time stays as is 13:16:09 can you paste the address in here for the record? 13:16:25 [group discusses various IRC issues] 13:16:41 http://www.mibbit.com/ 13:16:46 Katie: we're not allowed to use IRC bridges in (US?) government premises 13:17:23 JS: I have independent access, otherwise I wouldn't be able to connect 13:17:24 john sheridan 13:17:33 Katie: I confirm that 13:17:54 hi, i'm back 13:17:54 RRSAgent: pointer? 13:17:54 See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-irc#T13-17-54-1 13:18:03 Zakim, unmute me 13:18:03 darobin should no longer be muted 13:18:36 Zakim, mute me 13:18:36 darobin should now be muted 13:19:07 Katie: using the RRSAgent minutes is helpful 13:19:07 agenda? 13:19:09 OCR has joined #EGOV 13:19:16 RB: they're generally emails after the meeting too 13:19:21 close this agendum 13:19:26 move to next agendum 13:19:26 agendum 3. "Review of Agenda Items" taken up [from 2min] 13:19:51 zakim, who's here? 13:19:51 On the phone I see +43.316.873.aaaa, CDT, Josema, ??P11, +2, peter_krantz, darobin (muted), kjetil (muted), john, OwenAmbur, RobertoCastaldo, kevin 13:19:55 On IRC I see OCR, ari, johnlsheridan, RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, kjetil 13:20:08 Zakim, unmute me 13:20:08 darobin should no longer be muted 13:20:38 -OwenAmbur 13:20:52 zakim, aaaa is Herbert 13:20:53 + +34.98.439.aahh 13:20:53 +Herbert; got it 13:20:54 +OwenAmbur 13:21:11 kevin has joined #egov 13:21:20 zakim, CDT is Ari 13:21:20 +Ari; got it 13:21:31 zakim, who's here? 13:21:31 On the phone I see Herbert, Ari, Josema, ??P11, +2, peter_krantz, darobin, kjetil (muted), john, RobertoCastaldo, kevin, +34.98.439.aahh, OwenAmbur 13:21:33 On IRC I see kevin, OCR, ari, johnlsheridan, RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, kjetil 13:21:48 AS: Ari Schwartz, Center for Democracy and Technology 13:22:02 AS: I work on eGov/OpenGov issues, privacy 13:22:34 JA: I'm José Manuel Alonso, I work for CTIC and lead this activity as a Fellow 13:22:55 KN: Kevin Novak, The American Institute of Architects, co-chair 13:23:09 KN: have been doing eGov as the (US?) federal level for fifteen years 13:23:18 Verva, the Swedish Administrative Development Agency: http://verva.se/english/ 13:23:37 PK: Peter Krantz, from ?? in Sweden, working on eGov and standardisation 13:23:47 ah, thanks peter_krantz 13:24:14 Zakim, mute me 13:24:14 darobin should now be muted 13:24:19 robin: Robin Berjon, self employes, working for long on standards, much interest in eGov 13:24:32 Zakim, unmute me 13:24:32 kjetil should no longer be muted 13:24:40 KK: Kjetil Kjernsmo, Computas 13:25:18 Zakim, mute me 13:25:18 kjetil should now be muted 13:25:20 KK: a fair share of our business is in the public sector, I've long been involved with W3C, and previously with Opera 13:25:33 JS: John Sheridan, The National Archives 13:25:47 Head of Online Product Strategy (nee Head of Web Team) at The National Archives. No experience of W3C and mildly confused. 13:26:10 JS: my role is information policy, notably information reuse, interest in SemWeb 13:26:21 Mercedes: nothing wrong with a bit of confusion :) 13:26:39 RC: Roberto Castaldo, IWA-HWG 13:26:54 yep, Mercedes, this usually happens ;) 13:26:59 RC: Italian chapter, coordinator of ??? [scribe can't hear] 13:27:07 s/???/IWA 13:27:31 RC: I am a teacher in secondary school and in the private sector too 13:28:55 ... also working on WCAG 13:29:58 ... absolutely necessary to stat this group 13:30:03 I'm the coordinator of http://webaccessibile.org, an italian resource about Web accessibility 13:30:08 .... need to outreach more about open standards to Govs 13:30:12 OA: Owen Ambur, retired US civil servant with extensive experience 13:30:16 -darobin 13:30:22 ooooops 13:30:27 my phone just went dark 13:30:50 josema: can you read this? 13:31:20 ... xml.gov, StratML 13:31:20 josema: my phone line just went poof and I can't dial back in :( 13:31:22 see http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Related_Initiatives 13:31:35 sorry about that, I'll keep trying 13:31:48 don't worry, I go ahead 13:31:52 scribe: josema 13:31:58 close this agendum 13:32:02 move to next agendum 13:32:02 agendum 4. "Intro: 2 minutes round the table" taken up [from 15min] 13:32:03 please, irc me when I can present myself 13:32:58 zakim, aahh is Oscar 13:32:58 +Oscar; got it 13:33:29 OA: Principal Architect at State Government Of Asturias 13:33:35 ... first time at W3C 13:33:49 Katie: US Federal Gov, Webcontent 13:34:02 ... provide financial services to banking systems 13:34:14 ... interested in usability, providing services to citizens 13:34:38 zakim, ??P11 is Katie 13:34:38 +Katie; got it 13:35:08 zakim , +2 is vassilios 13:35:12 zakim, +2 is vassilios 13:35:12 +vassilios; got it 13:35:20 zakim, who's here 13:35:20 josema, you need to end that query with '?' 13:35:26 zakim, who's here? 13:35:26 On the phone I see Herbert, Ari, Josema, Katie, vassilios, peter_krantz, kjetil (muted), john, RobertoCastaldo, kevin, Oscar, OwenAmbur 13:35:29 On IRC I see kevin, OCR, ari, johnlsheridan, RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, kjetil 13:35:38 VP: DERI IE, Semantic Web for eGov 13:36:20 pasquale, could you introduce yourself? 13:36:27 www.deri.ie for an overview of DERI 13:36:33 Pasquale Popolizio, IWA-HWG, I'm a Web accessibility specialist and 13:36:36 +??P14 13:36:41 a Web Semantic researcher, from Naples, Italy, EU. 13:36:48 I work for University of Naples Federico II for its e-learning program 13:36:56 Zakim: ??P14 is me 13:36:59 http://www.federica.unina.it 13:37:00 Zakim, ??P14 is me 13:37:00 +darobin; got it 13:37:04 Zakim, mute me 13:37:04 darobin should now be muted 13:37:07 and for FORMEZ 13:37:13 http://www.formez.it 13:37:20 a Government Agency for education, 13:37:29 or evaluating the Web accessibility of Regional 13:37:29 Government of Campania Web sites. 13:37:37 I also participate into W3C WAI Education & Outreach WG, Internationalization (I18N) 13:37:37 Core Group and HTML WG. 13:37:45 I created and maintain the Italian resource about Sem Web, websemantico.org, 13:37:51 where you can find articles and Italian translation about Sem Web. 13:38:00 My desire: an accessible Web more Semantic, and a Semantic Web more accessible. 13:38:05 linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pasqualepopolizio 13:38:17 hi all, and thank you ;-) 13:38:25 hi pasquale, thank you! 13:38:41 close this agendum 13:38:49 move to next agendum 13:38:49 agendum 5. "Use Cases and Requirements" taken up [from 35min] 13:39:02 JA: so, let's move on to some real work 13:39:35 scribe: robin 13:39:37 KN: the three main topic areas are outlined in the charter 13:39:46 scribeNick: darobin 13:39:46 scribe: darobin 13:39:54 oops, right, sorry :) 13:40:16 KN: we should focus first on use cases and research that already exist 13:40:29 KN: there are already quite a few people working this area 13:40:38 some topics: 13:40:43 [[ * Work and practicalities 13:40:43 * Avoiding scope problems 13:40:43 * Identification of challenges 13:40:43 * Charter deliverables 13:40:44 (see: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/eGov/ig-charter#deliverables) 13:40:44 * W3C process and Group Notes 13:40:46 (see: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/) 13:40:48 * Task Forces coordination]] 13:40:53 KN: by the end of this year we could develop an issues paper for the following work 13:41:30 JA: a year is short, so we need to be very focused and scope our work clearly 13:41:52 JA: picking a few very specific use cases from which to draw requirements by the end of the year 13:42:03 JA: and based on that try to tackle those problems 13:42:16 JA: this will be complicated, eGov is a huge topic 13:42:48 JA: we are not that many to tackle so many issues 13:42:59 JA: the question: how to you envision the group's work 13:43:27 http://www.epractice.eu/ 13:43:29 JA: we have an example here in the EU of a website compiling a lot of information on eGov 13:43:45 JA: but it's difficult to extract the most common issues that need to be solved 13:44:20 JA: the charter is quite ambitious 13:44:44 JA: we need to narrow down the scope of those three areas so that it's manageable 13:45:33 Zakim, unmute me 13:45:33 darobin should no longer be muted 13:45:48 Zakim, mute me 13:45:48 RobertoCastaldo should now be muted 13:45:54 Robin: agree, we should narrow the scope early 13:46:06 ... takes time to produce just one document 13:46:07 Zakim, mute me 13:46:07 darobin should now be muted 13:47:18 Ari: I agree, it can take a lot of time to produce W3C documents, and it can take a lot of time to work on eGov issue, so we have potential catastrophe here 13:48:02 JA: Chris will coordinate the first TF "Usage of Web Standards", Ari "Transparency and Participation", and Oscar "Seamless Integration of Data" 13:48:51 Oscar: I completely agree about the scope issues, so I would say that we should first make an overview of different areas 13:48:58 [someone is breathing into their phone] 13:49:01 Chris Testa, USHMM; http://www.ushmm.org/ 13:49:16 zakim, who's noisy? 13:49:27 josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Katie (9%), vassilios (9%), Oscar (72%) 13:49:36 Oscar: we need to be very specific, otherwise the group is going to get lost 13:49:56 [I'm not sure that's exactly what he said, someone was enacting Darth Vader at the same time] 13:50:31 Ari: there's been a lot of discussion about e-Democracy and many projects, and narrowing the focus to where we can be most useful as a group 13:51:06 -Katie 13:51:20 KN: at least for the first year, though we have three TFs we believe it is best to have the entire IG meet as one to encourage discussion and focus 13:52:41 JA: we were reviewing different approaches, and we saw a number of docs being Foo Use Cases & Requirement 13:52:55 example: http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/NOTE-powder-use-cases-20071031/ 13:53:19 http://www.w3.org/TR/xbc-use-cases/ 13:53:48 different example: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-age-literature/ 13:54:18 JA: then we have "Literature Review" documents, which take a different approach 13:54:43 kjetil, wanna go first? 13:54:44 Zakim, unmute me 13:54:44 kjetil should no longer be muted 13:55:38 KK: the POWDER UC is mostly targeted towards developing a very specific technology, and used as a way to check that the technology solution matched the requirements 13:55:45 KK: for POWED it was useful 13:55:48 Zakim, unmute me 13:55:48 darobin should no longer be muted 13:55:49 Zakim, mute me 13:55:49 kjetil should now be muted 13:56:13 robin: XBC use cases, not to produce technical solution? 13:56:21 darobin, you're breaking up a bit 13:56:26 ... views of different stakeholders 13:57:33 ... even if not all the use cases are there, useful enough as a start 13:57:33 Zakim, mute me 13:57:33 darobin should now be muted 13:58:38 Oscar: we all have different backgrounds, and that should help us to have a more general approach 13:59:04 Oscar: we should all make a list of use cases, and see which ones we pick. And then later produce useful standards 13:59:43 Oscar: so we start general and get more specific 13:59:59 KN: agreed, and it should all be posted to the wiki (and to email) 14:00:34 ACTION: Oscar to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF 14:00:34 Sorry, couldn't find user - Oscar 14:00:38 ACTION: Ari to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF 14:00:38 Created ACTION-1 - Open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF [on Ari Schwartz - due 2008-07-02]. 14:00:41 ACTION: Chris to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF 14:00:41 Sorry, couldn't find user - Chris 14:01:33 ??: how far do we intend to take public participation 14:02:24 JA: for those who have worked in a WG before, you'll know that the tools have been developed to do Rec-track work, in private 14:02:48 JA: this group is different, and the tools have had to be reconfigured, things are changing 14:03:02 JA: I myself would like this group be as open as possible 14:03:16 JA: lower every barrier that can lowered 14:04:39 JA: the Process creates formalities, but everyone is welcome nevertheless 14:04:53 JA: we are encouraging Invited Experts 14:05:14 JA: we skip W3M approval for IEs 14:06:05 JA: I hope you don't mind that people will have access to everything 14:06:33 JA: only the group members can write, but everyone can read (and membership is open anyway) 14:07:58 JA: I was thinking about generating our documents from the Wiki, everyone could see the evolution of the draft 14:08:15 JA: the minutes of this call are logged publicly, and will be emailed right after 14:09:19 KN: I think that the openness is very important, many people might not have the financial option of participating, and being public helps make sure that we are accountable to our requirements 14:09:44 KN: I hope we can get smart people out there to join as IEs 14:09:52 Could someone prepare an invitation email for promoting these kind of participation? 14:10:24 JS: I agree with that, but I would like to note that if you're an official working for a govt there may be some things that you cannot say publicly 14:10:58 JS: there are things that we would be willing to share if not attributable, off the record, and some of those might be amongst the more interesting 14:11:24 Yep, Vassilios, any specific topics you'd like to addressed there? 14:11:35 KN: I very much understand that point, and we might develop a way to have a backchannel for those situations 14:12:36 JA: you can always ask the scribe to take you off the record 14:12:50 JA: we can also have a seperate mailing list or a member-only wiki 14:13:01 JA: if there is value for that, I can set it up 14:13:29 OA: I have a very strong preference for openness, especially since we're working on Transparency & Participation 14:14:14 Returning back to the content, could we introduce a round where WG participants 14:14:14 could send to the TF leaders ideas for possible inclusion in future discussions? 14:14:19 JA: let's talk about the liaisons 14:14:40 vassilios: you can always propose agenda items on the mailing list 14:14:41 close this agendum 14:14:46 move to next agendum 14:14:46 agendum 6. "Liaisons: review charter ones, new proposed ones " taken up [from 15min] 14:15:04 KN: OASIS is asking that we don't duplicate efforts, and their eGov activity is being resurrected 14:15:21 KN: we talked Monday about that and about potential synergies 14:15:25 soem here: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Related_Initiatives 14:15:34 s/soem/some 14:15:38 some more here: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/eGov/ig-charter#coordination.external 14:15:56 KN: we could co-lead conferences or events 14:16:06 KN: we could meet regularly, share docs 14:17:00 JA: we are chartered to talk to other organisations 14:17:36 JA: usual discussion is "we would love to chat with you" 14:17:44 http://www.semic.eu/semic/ 14:17:59 JA: the problem of course is one of scope 14:18:14 http://osor.eu/ 14:18:21 JA: governments expect from us a suite of open standards that would help them achieve their goals 14:18:50 JA: they need an integrated solution to their problems 14:19:04 http://www.oasis-egov.org/ 14:19:36 JA: OASIS had a Technical Committee (TC), like a W3C WG, but switched to a less technical approach 14:19:55 JA: their charter looks very similar to ours 14:20:21 JA: that is not because one copied on the other, but simply because we are getting our information from the same sources 14:20:32 JA: there is common ground that could be explored 14:21:08 JA: they also have their first call this week 14:21:15 JA: ongoing discussion with them 14:22:11 KN: any opinion? 14:22:36 PK: I think it's important to collaborate to avoid duplicate standards which create confusion 14:22:50 Completely agree, standards cannot be duplicated 14:23:17 JS: if we are missing links, it should tell us who we want to bring into this group 14:23:33 in other groups there are "Liaison Officers" 14:24:45 I think that joint work can be great but you still want one person to be responsible for the contact so that the link isn't dropped IMHO 14:24:53 OA: we should focus on common objectives 14:25:31 OA: I would be more than happy to map to StratML this group and other groups so that we can see common goals 14:27:10 PS: we should be clear about where we as individuals are participating elsewhere, that can help a lot in creating links 14:27:37 agree 14:27:43 KN: I think that's a great idea, are people open to posting it to the wiki 14:27:50 JS: completely open about that 14:28:06 agree 14:28:16 Sorry, I have to go. Useful discussion though. 14:28:46 JA: we should talk about the status of liaisons regularly 14:29:14 JA: I will talk to the OASIS people about StratML 14:29:35