IRC log of egov on 2008-06-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:44:35 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #egov
12:44:35 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-irc
12:44:37 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
12:44:37 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #egov
12:44:39 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 46005
12:44:39 [Zakim]: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
12:44:40 [trackbot]: Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:44:40 [trackbot]: Date: 25 June 2008
12:46:18 [dom]: dom has joined #egov
12:46:23 [dom]: zakim, list conferences
12:46:23 [Zakim]: I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM active
12:46:24 [Zakim]: also scheduled at this time are XML_SMLWG()3:00AM, T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, XML_QueryWG()3:00AM, XML_XSLWG()3:00AM
12:48:43 [kjetil]: Zakim, what is the code?
12:48:43 [Zakim]: sorry, kjetil, I don't know what conference this is
12:49:09 [dom]: zakim, this will be EGOV
12:49:09 [Zakim]: ok, dom; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
12:49:12 [dom]: zakim, code?
12:49:12 [Zakim]: the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom
12:49:13 [kjetil]: Zakim, what is the code?
12:49:14 [Zakim]: the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), kjetil
12:49:19 [kjetil]: right :-)
12:49:39 [dom]: dom has left #egov
12:49:54 [pasquale]: pasquale has joined #egov
12:50:17 [josema]: ah, things are looking better now :)
12:50:22 [josema]: agenda?
12:51:04 [josema]: chair: kevin, josema
12:52:02 [josema]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2008Jun/0002
12:52:27 [josema]: meeting: eGov IG kick-off
12:52:51 [Mercedes]: Mercedes has joined #egov
12:53:32 [josema]: agenda+ Scribe selection [2min]
12:53:50 [josema]: agenda+ Welcome and practicalities [15min]
12:53:52 [vassilios]: vassilios has joined #egov
12:54:08 [josema]: agenda+ Review of Agenda Items [2min]
12:54:21 [josema]: agenda+ Intro: 2 minutes round the table [15min]
12:54:33 [josema]: agenda+ Use Cases and Requirements [35min]
12:54:50 [josema]: agenda+ Liaisons: review charter ones, new proposed ones [15min]
12:54:59 [josema]: agenda+ Next Meeting [5min]
12:55:02 [josema]: agenda?
12:58:01 [Zakim]: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
12:58:10 [Zakim]: + +43.316.873.aaaa
12:58:10 [Zakim]: +CDT
12:58:17 [Zakim]: +Josema
12:58:17 [Zakim]: +??P11
12:58:43 [Zakim]: + +46.8.55.05.aabb
12:58:43 [Zakim]: + +2
12:58:47 [pasquale]: hi all from Naples, Italy, for now I only can irc
12:58:55 [josema]: hi pasquale
12:59:04 [pasquale]: hi
12:59:58 [josema]: zakim, who's here?
12:59:58 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +43.316.873.aaaa, CDT, Josema, ??P11, +2, +46.8.55.05.aabb
13:00:00 [Zakim]: On IRC I see vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, s-mon, kjetil
13:00:05 [Zakim]: + +7.711.aadd
13:00:08 [Mercedes]: Afternoon - I have a begged an open port from ICTD for the next two hours just to be here
13:00:22 [darobin]: Zakim, aadd is me
13:00:22 [Zakim]: +darobin; got it
13:00:23 [peter_krantz]: peter_krantz has joined #egov
13:00:24 [Mercedes]: I suspect Mercedescs is also me, so can be ignored
13:00:36 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
13:00:36 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
13:00:55 [Zakim]: + +47.67.83.aaee
13:01:05 [kjetil]: Zakim, aaee is me
13:01:05 [Zakim]: +kjetil; got it
13:01:14 [darobin]: hi kjetil :)
13:01:49 [kjetil]: Zakim, mute me
13:01:49 [Zakim]: kjetil should now be muted
13:02:06 [Zakim]: +??P16
13:02:25 [josema]: zakim, +??P16 is john
13:02:25 [Zakim]: sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named '+??P16'
13:02:32 [josema]: zakim, ??P16 is john
13:02:32 [Zakim]: +john; got it
13:02:54 [josema]: agenda?
13:03:11 [RobertoCastaldo]: RobertoCastaldo has joined #egov
13:03:21 [RobertoCastaldo]: Hi all :-)
13:03:33 [peter_krantz]: Hi!
13:03:36 [darobin]: hi!
13:03:43 [Zakim]: + +1.301.455.aaff
13:03:48 [josema]: zakim, who's here
13:03:48 [Zakim]: josema, you need to end that query with '?'
13:03:53 [josema]: zakim, who's here?
13:03:53 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +43.316.873.aaaa, CDT, Josema, ??P11, +2, +46.8.55.05.aabb, darobin (muted), kjetil (muted), john, +1.301.455.aaff
13:03:55 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, s-mon, kjetil
13:03:57 [Zakim]: +??P18
13:04:17 [kjetil]: Zakim, ??P18 is RobertoCastaldo
13:04:17 [Zakim]: +RobertoCastaldo; got it
13:04:31 [kjetil]: np :-)
13:04:39 [peter_krantz]: zakim, +46.8.55.05.aabb is peter_krantz
13:04:39 [Zakim]: +peter_krantz; got it
13:04:41 [darobin]: I didn't hear the previous one, was it Owen something?
13:05:02 [josema]: yep, maybe Owen Ambur
13:05:21 [Zakim]: + +1.202.626.aagg
13:05:35 [darobin]: Zakim, aaff is OwenAmbur
13:05:35 [Zakim]: +OwenAmbur; got it
13:05:47 [josema]: zakim, aagg is kevin
13:05:47 [Zakim]: +kevin; got it
13:06:05 [josema]: agenda?
13:08:05 [darobin]: Zakim, unmute me
13:08:05 [Zakim]: darobin should no longer be muted
13:08:40 [peter_krantz]: I am not familiar with the scribing principles yet and would like to know the formalities first.
13:08:57 [darobin]: Scribe: darobin
13:09:15 [pasquale]: sorry, I'm not able to continue for now, 10 minutes and I'll return
13:09:36 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
13:09:36 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
13:09:44 [josema]: move to next agendum
13:09:44 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Scribe selection" taken up [from 2min]
13:09:49 [josema]: move to next agendum
13:09:49 [Zakim]: agendum 1 was just opened, josema
13:09:56 [josema]: close this agendum
13:10:00 [josema]: move to next agendum
13:10:00 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Welcome and practicalities" taken up [from 15min]
13:10:36 [darobin]: JA: I'll explain how things work, please talk to me if you have problems
13:10:58 [darobin]: JA: it's not mandatory to be on IRC, but it's helpful
13:11:12 [darobin]: JA: it makes scribing and out-of-band discussion easier
13:11:39 [darobin]: JA: there are details on http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Teleconferences
13:12:04 [darobin]: JA: we are scheduled to meet every other week
13:13:02 [darobin]: JA: it's hard to find a good time, rotating schedules can be done but we're not sure they work — opinions welcome
13:13:12 [johnlsheridan]: johnlsheridan has joined #egov
13:13:24 [ari]: ari has joined #egov
13:13:30 [darobin]: JA: this time is not so good for Asia, and really bad for AU/NZ
13:14:06 [josema]: agenda?
13:14:10 [darobin]: [group is silent]
13:14:15 [s-mon]: s-mon has left #egov
13:14:39 [darobin]: JA: is this time okay?
13:14:47 [darobin]: Silent assent from the group
13:14:57 [Mercedes]: It works for me
13:15:06 [RobertoCastaldo]: should be ok for me
13:15:07 [darobin]: RESOLUTION: the telcon time stays as is
13:16:09 [darobin]: can you paste the address in here for the record?
13:16:25 [darobin]: [group discusses various IRC issues]
13:16:41 [peter_krantz]: http://www.mibbit.com/
13:16:46 [darobin]: Katie: we're not allowed to use IRC bridges in (US?) government premises
13:17:23 [darobin]: JS: I have independent access, otherwise I wouldn't be able to connect
13:17:24 [josema]: john sheridan
13:17:33 [darobin]: Katie: I confirm that
13:17:54 [pasquale]: hi, i'm back
13:17:54 [darobin]: RRSAgent: pointer?
13:17:54 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-irc#T13-17-54-1
13:18:03 [darobin]: Zakim, unmute me
13:18:03 [Zakim]: darobin should no longer be muted
13:18:36 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
13:18:36 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
13:19:07 [darobin]: Katie: using the RRSAgent minutes is helpful
13:19:07 [josema]: agenda?
13:19:09 [OCR]: OCR has joined #EGOV
13:19:16 [darobin]: RB: they're generally emails after the meeting too
13:19:21 [josema]: close this agendum
13:19:26 [josema]: move to next agendum
13:19:26 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Review of Agenda Items" taken up [from 2min]
13:19:51 [josema]: zakim, who's here?
13:19:51 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +43.316.873.aaaa, CDT, Josema, ??P11, +2, peter_krantz, darobin (muted), kjetil (muted), john, OwenAmbur, RobertoCastaldo, kevin
13:19:55 [Zakim]: On IRC I see OCR, ari, johnlsheridan, RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, kjetil
13:20:08 [darobin]: Zakim, unmute me
13:20:08 [Zakim]: darobin should no longer be muted
13:20:38 [Zakim]: -OwenAmbur
13:20:52 [josema]: zakim, aaaa is Herbert
13:20:53 [Zakim]: + +34.98.439.aahh
13:20:53 [Zakim]: +Herbert; got it
13:20:54 [Zakim]: +OwenAmbur
13:21:11 [kevin]: kevin has joined #egov
13:21:20 [josema]: zakim, CDT is Ari
13:21:20 [Zakim]: +Ari; got it
13:21:31 [josema]: zakim, who's here?
13:21:31 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Herbert, Ari, Josema, ??P11, +2, peter_krantz, darobin, kjetil (muted), john, RobertoCastaldo, kevin, +34.98.439.aahh, OwenAmbur
13:21:33 [Zakim]: On IRC I see kevin, OCR, ari, johnlsheridan, RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, kjetil
13:21:48 [darobin]: AS: Ari Schwartz, Center for Democracy and Technology
13:22:02 [darobin]: AS: I work on eGov/OpenGov issues, privacy
13:22:34 [darobin]: JA: I'm José Manuel Alonso, I work for CTIC and lead this activity as a Fellow
13:22:55 [darobin]: KN: Kevin Novak, The American Institute of Architects, co-chair
13:23:09 [darobin]: KN: have been doing eGov as the (US?) federal level for fifteen years
13:23:18 [peter_krantz]: Verva, the Swedish Administrative Development Agency: http://verva.se/english/
13:23:37 [darobin]: PK: Peter Krantz, from ?? in Sweden, working on eGov and standardisation
13:23:47 [darobin]: ah, thanks peter_krantz
13:24:14 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
13:24:14 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
13:24:19 [josema]: robin: Robin Berjon, self employes, working for long on standards, much interest in eGov
13:24:32 [kjetil]: Zakim, unmute me
13:24:32 [Zakim]: kjetil should no longer be muted
13:24:40 [darobin]: KK: Kjetil Kjernsmo, Computas
13:25:18 [kjetil]: Zakim, mute me
13:25:18 [Zakim]: kjetil should now be muted
13:25:20 [darobin]: KK: a fair share of our business is in the public sector, I've long been involved with W3C, and previously with Opera
13:25:33 [darobin]: JS: John Sheridan, The National Archives
13:25:47 [Mercedes]: Head of Online Product Strategy (nee Head of Web Team) at The National Archives. No experience of W3C and mildly confused.
13:26:10 [darobin]: JS: my role is information policy, notably information reuse, interest in SemWeb
13:26:21 [darobin]: Mercedes: nothing wrong with a bit of confusion :)
13:26:39 [darobin]: RC: Roberto Castaldo, IWA-HWG
13:26:54 [josema]: yep, Mercedes, this usually happens ;)
13:26:59 [darobin]: RC: Italian chapter, coordinator of ??? [scribe can't hear]
13:27:07 [josema]: s/???/IWA
13:27:31 [darobin]: RC: I am a teacher in secondary school and in the private sector too
13:28:55 [josema]: ... also working on WCAG
13:29:58 [josema]: ... absolutely necessary to stat this group
13:30:03 [RobertoCastaldo]: I'm the coordinator of http://webaccessibile.org, an italian resource about Web accessibility
13:30:08 [josema]: .... need to outreach more about open standards to Govs
13:30:12 [darobin]: OA: Owen Ambur, retired US civil servant with extensive experience
13:30:16 [Zakim]: -darobin
13:30:22 [darobin]: ooooops
13:30:27 [darobin]: my phone just went dark
13:30:50 [darobin]: josema: can you read this?
13:31:20 [josema]: ... xml.gov, StratML
13:31:20 [darobin]: josema: my phone line just went poof and I can't dial back in :(
13:31:22 [josema]: see http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Related_Initiatives
13:31:35 [darobin]: sorry about that, I'll keep trying
13:31:48 [josema]: don't worry, I go ahead
13:31:52 [josema]: scribe: josema
13:31:58 [josema]: close this agendum
13:32:02 [josema]: move to next agendum
13:32:02 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Intro: 2 minutes round the table" taken up [from 15min]
13:32:03 [pasquale]: please, irc me when I can present myself
13:32:58 [josema]: zakim, aahh is Oscar
13:32:58 [Zakim]: +Oscar; got it
13:33:29 [josema]: OA: Principal Architect at State Government Of Asturias
13:33:35 [josema]: ... first time at W3C
13:33:49 [josema]: Katie: US Federal Gov, Webcontent
13:34:02 [josema]: ... provide financial services to banking systems
13:34:14 [josema]: ... interested in usability, providing services to citizens
13:34:38 [josema]: zakim, ??P11 is Katie
13:34:38 [Zakim]: +Katie; got it
13:35:08 [josema]: zakim , +2 is vassilios
13:35:12 [josema]: zakim, +2 is vassilios
13:35:12 [Zakim]: +vassilios; got it
13:35:20 [josema]: zakim, who's here
13:35:20 [Zakim]: josema, you need to end that query with '?'
13:35:26 [josema]: zakim, who's here?
13:35:26 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Herbert, Ari, Josema, Katie, vassilios, peter_krantz, kjetil (muted), john, RobertoCastaldo, kevin, Oscar, OwenAmbur
13:35:29 [Zakim]: On IRC I see kevin, OCR, ari, johnlsheridan, RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, vassilios, Mercedes, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, josema, Mercedescs, trackbot, kjetil
13:35:38 [josema]: VP: DERI IE, Semantic Web for eGov
13:36:20 [josema]: pasquale, could you introduce yourself?
13:36:27 [vassilios]: www.deri.ie for an overview of DERI
13:36:33 [pasquale]: Pasquale Popolizio, IWA-HWG, I'm a Web accessibility specialist and
13:36:36 [Zakim]: +??P14
13:36:41 [pasquale]: a Web Semantic researcher, from Naples, Italy, EU.
13:36:48 [pasquale]: I work for University of Naples Federico II for its e-learning program
13:36:56 [darobin]: Zakim: ??P14 is me
13:36:59 [pasquale]: http://www.federica.unina.it
13:37:00 [darobin]: Zakim, ??P14 is me
13:37:00 [Zakim]: +darobin; got it
13:37:04 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
13:37:04 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
13:37:07 [pasquale]: and for FORMEZ
13:37:13 [pasquale]: http://www.formez.it
13:37:20 [pasquale]: a Government Agency for education,
13:37:29 [pasquale]: or evaluating the Web accessibility of Regional
13:37:29 [pasquale]: Government of Campania Web sites.
13:37:37 [pasquale]: I also participate into W3C WAI Education & Outreach WG, Internationalization (I18N)
13:37:37 [pasquale]: Core Group and HTML WG.
13:37:45 [pasquale]: I created and maintain the Italian resource about Sem Web, websemantico.org,
13:37:51 [pasquale]: where you can find articles and Italian translation about Sem Web.
13:38:00 [pasquale]: My desire: an accessible Web more Semantic, and a Semantic Web more accessible.
13:38:05 [pasquale]: linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pasqualepopolizio
13:38:17 [pasquale]: hi all, and thank you ;-)
13:38:25 [josema]: hi pasquale, thank you!
13:38:41 [josema]: close this agendum
13:38:49 [josema]: move to next agendum
13:38:49 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Use Cases and Requirements" taken up [from 35min]
13:39:02 [darobin]: JA: so, let's move on to some real work
13:39:35 [josema]: scribe: robin
13:39:37 [darobin]: KN: the three main topic areas are outlined in the charter
13:39:46 [josema]: scribeNick: darobin
13:39:46 [darobin]: scribe: darobin
13:39:54 [darobin]: oops, right, sorry :)
13:40:16 [darobin]: KN: we should focus first on use cases and research that already exist
13:40:29 [darobin]: KN: there are already quite a few people working this area
13:40:38 [josema]: some topics:
13:40:43 [josema]: [[ * Work and practicalities
13:40:43 [josema]: * Avoiding scope problems
13:40:43 [josema]: * Identification of challenges
13:40:43 [josema]: * Charter deliverables
13:40:44 [josema]: (see: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/eGov/ig-charter#deliverables)
13:40:44 [josema]: * W3C process and Group Notes
13:40:46 [josema]: (see: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/)
13:40:48 [josema]: * Task Forces coordination]]
13:40:53 [darobin]: KN: by the end of this year we could develop an issues paper for the following work
13:41:30 [darobin]: JA: a year is short, so we need to be very focused and scope our work clearly
13:41:52 [darobin]: JA: picking a few very specific use cases from which to draw requirements by the end of the year
13:42:03 [darobin]: JA: and based on that try to tackle those problems
13:42:16 [darobin]: JA: this will be complicated, eGov is a huge topic
13:42:48 [darobin]: JA: we are not that many to tackle so many issues
13:42:59 [darobin]: JA: the question: how to you envision the group's work
13:43:27 [peter_krantz]: http://www.epractice.eu/
13:43:29 [darobin]: JA: we have an example here in the EU of a website compiling a lot of information on eGov
13:43:45 [darobin]: JA: but it's difficult to extract the most common issues that need to be solved
13:44:20 [darobin]: JA: the charter is quite ambitious
13:44:44 [darobin]: JA: we need to narrow down the scope of those three areas so that it's manageable
13:45:33 [darobin]: Zakim, unmute me
13:45:33 [Zakim]: darobin should no longer be muted
13:45:48 [RobertoCastaldo]: Zakim, mute me
13:45:48 [Zakim]: RobertoCastaldo should now be muted
13:45:54 [josema]: Robin: agree, we should narrow the scope early
13:46:06 [josema]: ... takes time to produce just one document
13:46:07 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
13:46:07 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
13:47:18 [darobin]: Ari: I agree, it can take a lot of time to produce W3C documents, and it can take a lot of time to work on eGov issue, so we have potential catastrophe here
13:48:02 [darobin]: JA: Chris will coordinate the first TF "Usage of Web Standards", Ari "Transparency and Participation", and Oscar "Seamless Integration of Data"
13:48:51 [darobin]: Oscar: I completely agree about the scope issues, so I would say that we should first make an overview of different areas
13:48:58 [darobin]: [someone is breathing into their phone]
13:49:01 [josema]: Chris Testa, USHMM; http://www.ushmm.org/
13:49:16 [josema]: zakim, who's noisy?
13:49:27 [Zakim]: josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Katie (9%), vassilios (9%), Oscar (72%)
13:49:36 [darobin]: Oscar: we need to be very specific, otherwise the group is going to get lost
13:49:56 [darobin]: [I'm not sure that's exactly what he said, someone was enacting Darth Vader at the same time]
13:50:31 [darobin]: Ari: there's been a lot of discussion about e-Democracy and many projects, and narrowing the focus to where we can be most useful as a group
13:51:06 [Zakim]: -Katie
13:51:20 [darobin]: KN: at least for the first year, though we have three TFs we believe it is best to have the entire IG meet as one to encourage discussion and focus
13:52:41 [darobin]: JA: we were reviewing different approaches, and we saw a number of docs being Foo Use Cases & Requirement
13:52:55 [josema]: example: http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/NOTE-powder-use-cases-20071031/
13:53:19 [darobin]: http://www.w3.org/TR/xbc-use-cases/
13:53:48 [josema]: different example: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-age-literature/
13:54:18 [darobin]: JA: then we have "Literature Review" documents, which take a different approach
13:54:43 [darobin]: kjetil, wanna go first?
13:54:44 [kjetil]: Zakim, unmute me
13:54:44 [Zakim]: kjetil should no longer be muted
13:55:38 [darobin]: KK: the POWDER UC is mostly targeted towards developing a very specific technology, and used as a way to check that the technology solution matched the requirements
13:55:45 [darobin]: KK: for POWED it was useful
13:55:48 [darobin]: Zakim, unmute me
13:55:48 [Zakim]: darobin should no longer be muted
13:55:49 [kjetil]: Zakim, mute me
13:55:49 [Zakim]: kjetil should now be muted
13:56:13 [josema]: robin: XBC use cases, not to produce technical solution?
13:56:21 [kjetil]: darobin, you're breaking up a bit
13:56:26 [josema]: ... views of different stakeholders
13:57:33 [josema]: ... even if not all the use cases are there, useful enough as a start
13:57:33 [darobin]: Zakim, mute me
13:57:33 [Zakim]: darobin should now be muted
13:58:38 [darobin]: Oscar: we all have different backgrounds, and that should help us to have a more general approach
13:59:04 [darobin]: Oscar: we should all make a list of use cases, and see which ones we pick. And then later produce useful standards
13:59:43 [darobin]: Oscar: so we start general and get more specific
13:59:59 [darobin]: KN: agreed, and it should all be posted to the wiki (and to email)
14:00:34 [darobin]: ACTION: Oscar to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF
14:00:34 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - Oscar
14:00:38 [darobin]: ACTION: Ari to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF
14:00:38 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-1 - Open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF [on Ari Schwartz - due 2008-07-02].
14:00:41 [darobin]: ACTION: Chris to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF
14:00:41 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - Chris
14:01:33 [darobin]: ??: how far do we intend to take public participation
14:02:24 [darobin]: JA: for those who have worked in a WG before, you'll know that the tools have been developed to do Rec-track work, in private
14:02:48 [darobin]: JA: this group is different, and the tools have had to be reconfigured, things are changing
14:03:02 [darobin]: JA: I myself would like this group be as open as possible
14:03:16 [darobin]: JA: lower every barrier that can lowered
14:04:39 [darobin]: JA: the Process creates formalities, but everyone is welcome nevertheless
14:04:53 [darobin]: JA: we are encouraging Invited Experts
14:05:14 [darobin]: JA: we skip W3M approval for IEs
14:06:05 [darobin]: JA: I hope you don't mind that people will have access to everything
14:06:33 [darobin]: JA: only the group members can write, but everyone can read (and membership is open anyway)
14:07:58 [darobin]: JA: I was thinking about generating our documents from the Wiki, everyone could see the evolution of the draft
14:08:15 [darobin]: JA: the minutes of this call are logged publicly, and will be emailed right after
14:09:19 [darobin]: KN: I think that the openness is very important, many people might not have the financial option of participating, and being public helps make sure that we are accountable to our requirements
14:09:44 [darobin]: KN: I hope we can get smart people out there to join as IEs
14:09:52 [vassilios]: Could someone prepare an invitation email for promoting these kind of participation?
14:10:24 [darobin]: JS: I agree with that, but I would like to note that if you're an official working for a govt there may be some things that you cannot say publicly
14:10:58 [darobin]: JS: there are things that we would be willing to share if not attributable, off the record, and some of those might be amongst the more interesting
14:11:24 [josema]: Yep, Vassilios, any specific topics you'd like to addressed there?
14:11:35 [darobin]: KN: I very much understand that point, and we might develop a way to have a backchannel for those situations
14:12:36 [darobin]: JA: you can always ask the scribe to take you off the record
14:12:50 [darobin]: JA: we can also have a seperate mailing list or a member-only wiki
14:13:01 [darobin]: JA: if there is value for that, I can set it up
14:13:29 [darobin]: OA: I have a very strong preference for openness, especially since we're working on Transparency & Participation
14:14:14 [vassilios]: Returning back to the content, could we introduce a round where WG participants
14:14:14 [vassilios]: could send to the TF leaders ideas for possible inclusion in future discussions?
14:14:19 [darobin]: JA: let's talk about the liaisons
14:14:40 [darobin]: vassilios: you can always propose agenda items on the mailing list
14:14:41 [josema]: close this agendum
14:14:46 [josema]: move to next agendum
14:14:46 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "Liaisons: review charter ones, new proposed ones " taken up [from 15min]
14:15:04 [darobin]: KN: OASIS is asking that we don't duplicate efforts, and their eGov activity is being resurrected
14:15:21 [darobin]: KN: we talked Monday about that and about potential synergies
14:15:25 [josema]: soem here: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Related_Initiatives
14:15:34 [josema]: s/soem/some
14:15:38 [josema]: some more here: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/eGov/ig-charter#coordination.external
14:15:56 [darobin]: KN: we could co-lead conferences or events
14:16:06 [darobin]: KN: we could meet regularly, share docs
14:17:00 [darobin]: JA: we are chartered to talk to other organisations
14:17:36 [darobin]: JA: usual discussion is "we would love to chat with you"
14:17:44 [vassilios]: http://www.semic.eu/semic/
14:17:59 [darobin]: JA: the problem of course is one of scope
14:18:14 [vassilios]: http://osor.eu/
14:18:21 [darobin]: JA: governments expect from us a suite of open standards that would help them achieve their goals
14:18:50 [darobin]: JA: they need an integrated solution to their problems
14:19:04 [josema]: http://www.oasis-egov.org/
14:19:36 [darobin]: JA: OASIS had a Technical Committee (TC), like a W3C WG, but switched to a less technical approach
14:19:55 [darobin]: JA: their charter looks very similar to ours
14:20:21 [darobin]: JA: that is not because one copied on the other, but simply because we are getting our information from the same sources
14:20:32 [darobin]: JA: there is common ground that could be explored
14:21:08 [darobin]: JA: they also have their first call this week
14:21:15 [darobin]: JA: ongoing discussion with them
14:22:11 [darobin]: KN: any opinion?
14:22:36 [darobin]: PK: I think it's important to collaborate to avoid duplicate standards which create confusion
14:22:50 [RobertoCastaldo]: Completely agree, standards cannot be duplicated
14:23:17 [darobin]: JS: if we are missing links, it should tell us who we want to bring into this group
14:23:33 [darobin]: in other groups there are "Liaison Officers"
14:24:45 [darobin]: I think that joint work can be great but you still want one person to be responsible for the contact so that the link isn't dropped IMHO
14:24:53 [darobin]: OA: we should focus on common objectives
14:25:31 [darobin]: OA: I would be more than happy to map to StratML this group and other groups so that we can see common goals
14:27:10 [darobin]: PS: we should be clear about where we as individuals are participating elsewhere, that can help a lot in creating links
14:27:37 [RobertoCastaldo]: agree
14:27:43 [darobin]: KN: I think that's a great idea, are people open to posting it to the wiki
14:27:50 [darobin]: JS: completely open about that
14:28:06 [ari]: agree
14:28:16 [Mercedes]: Sorry, I have to go. Useful discussion though.
14:28:46 [darobin]: JA: we should talk about the status of liaisons regularly
14:29:14 [darobin]: JA: I will talk to the OASIS people about StratML
14:29:35 [darobin]: OA: it's under the auspices of AIM [there was echo]
14:29:45 [josema]: close this agendum
14:29:49 [josema]: move to next agendum
14:29:49 [Zakim]: agendum 7. "Next Meeting" taken up [from 5min]
14:30:43 [darobin]: JA: I will be on holidays most of July, I don't know how the group feels about moving ahead without me
14:31:01 [darobin]: JA: I personally encourage you to work
14:32:37 [kjetil]: Zakim, unmute me
14:32:37 [Zakim]: kjetil should no longer be muted
14:32:39 [kjetil]: q+
14:32:41 [darobin]: JA: the telcon is scheduled, the bots will work, the only possible issue could be minutes
14:32:55 [johnlsheridan]: Lets go for another in July
14:32:57 [darobin]: RESOLUTION: we will have our regular meetings without josema
14:33:12 [darobin]: JA: the next one would be July 9
14:33:15 [kjetil]: q-
14:34:17 [darobin]: KN: I encourage everyone to use email and the wiki so that we don't lose momentum between calls
14:34:20 [darobin]: MEETING ADJOURNED
14:34:26 [Zakim]: -OwenAmbur
14:34:26 [darobin]: RRSAgent: make minutes
14:34:26 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-minutes.html darobin
14:34:27 [Zakim]: -Ari
14:34:27 [Zakim]: -john
14:34:29 [vassilios]: thanks
14:34:31 [Zakim]: -kevin
14:34:32 [Zakim]: -kjetil
14:34:32 [Zakim]: -peter_krantz
14:34:33 [Zakim]: -Herbert
14:34:33 [Zakim]: -darobin
14:34:35 [Zakim]: -RobertoCastaldo
14:34:37 [Zakim]: -Josema
14:34:40 [Zakim]: -Oscar
14:34:41 [Zakim]: -vassilios
14:34:43 [Zakim]: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
14:34:45 [Zakim]: Attendees were +43.316.873.aaaa, Josema, +7.711.aadd, darobin, +47.67.83.aaee, kjetil, john, +1.301.455.aaff, RobertoCastaldo, peter_krantz, +1.202.626.aagg, OwenAmbur, kevin,
14:34:48 [Zakim]: ... +34.98.439.aahh, Herbert, Ari, Oscar, Katie, vassilios
14:34:53 [darobin]: RRSAgent: make minutes public
14:34:53 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', darobin. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:34:56 [josema]: RRSAgent, list attendees
14:34:56 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', josema. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:34:58 [kevin]: kevin has left #egov
14:35:21 [darobin]: RRSAgent: make log public
14:35:29 [darobin]: RRSAgent: pointer?
14:35:29 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-irc#T14-35-29
14:35:39 [darobin]: there we go
14:35:39 [josema]: robin, trackbot takes care of that now :)
14:35:44 [darobin]: oh!
14:35:52 [darobin]: good bot :)
14:36:09 [josema]: thanks very much for scribing today!
14:36:14 [darobin]: you're welcome
14:36:18 [josema]: hope your neck does not hurt much ;)
14:36:21 [darobin]: do you want me to send out the minutes
14:36:35 [darobin]: nah it's okay, I mostly hate my phone for just dropping dead!
14:36:52 [josema]: don't worry about it, I will edit it a bit to make them more beautiful and send them out :)
14:37:01 [darobin]: okay, thanks :)
14:37:31 [josema]: rrsagent, generate minutes
14:37:31 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-minutes.html josema
14:48:43 [peter_krantz]: peter_krantz has left #egov
15:21:06 [josema]: RRSagent, bye
15:21:06 [RRSAgent]: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-actions.rdf :
15:21:06 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Oscar to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF [1]
15:21:06 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-irc#T14-00-34
15:21:06 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ari to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF [2]
15:21:06 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-irc#T14-00-38
15:21:06 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Chris to open a new section in the wiki for use cases for his TF [3]
15:21:06 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-egov-irc#T14-00-41