IRC log of bpwg on 2008-06-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:13 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #bpwg

13:59:13 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-bpwg-irc

13:59:15 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:59:15 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #bpwg

13:59:17 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be BPWG

13:59:17 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

13:59:18 [trackbot]

Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

13:59:18 [trackbot]

Date: 24 June 2008

13:59:30 [francois]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008Jun/0040.html

13:59:34 [francois]

Chair: francois

13:59:53 [hgerlach]

hgerlach has joined #bpwg

14:00:31 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM has now started

14:00:37 [Zakim]

+Francois

14:00:56 [Pontus]

Pontus has joined #bpwg

14:01:14 [jo]

zakim, code?

14:01:14 [Zakim]

the conference code is 2283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo

14:01:29 [rob]

rob has joined #bpwg

14:01:30 [Zakim]

+ +049211aaaa

14:01:34 [Zakim]

+??P19

14:01:59 [Zakim]

+ +0208995aabb

14:02:10 [jo]

zakim, aabb is me

14:02:11 [andrews]

andrews has joined #bpwg

14:02:13 [Zakim]

+ +0207287aacc

14:02:13 [hgerlach]

Hi Guys, I saw you did a great job while the F2F - Thanks a lot

14:02:21 [francois]

zakim, aaaa is me

14:02:25 [Zakim]

+jo; got it

14:02:25 [rob]

zakim, aacc is me

14:02:31 [Zakim]

+francois; got it

14:02:37 [Zakim]

+rob; got it

14:03:14 [francois]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:03:17 [jo]

zakim, ??P19 is heiko

14:03:26 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Francois, francois, ??P19, jo, rob

14:03:28 [Zakim]

+heiko; got it

14:03:56 [Zakim]

+ +0789972aadd

14:03:56 [francois]

zakim, francois is really Pontus

14:03:58 [Zakim]

sorry, francois, I do not recognize a party named 'francois'

14:04:09 [francois]

zakim, aadd is andrews

14:04:09 [Zakim]

+andrews; got it

14:04:12 [jo]

zakim, aadd is andrews

14:04:12 [Zakim]

sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'

14:04:31 [francois]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:04:31 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Francois, francois, heiko, jo, rob, andrews

14:04:34 [jo]

zakim, Francois is really pontus

14:04:34 [Zakim]

sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'Francois'

14:05:25 [jo]

zakim, who is making noise?

14:05:29 [Pontus]

zakim, mute me

14:05:29 [Zakim]

sorry, Pontus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

14:05:35 [Zakim]

jo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: andrews (31%), heiko (31%), francois (9%), jo (15%)

14:05:49 [jo]

zakim, mute heiko

14:05:49 [Zakim]

heiko should now be muted

14:05:54 [SeanP]

SeanP has joined #bpwg

14:06:01 [jo]

zakim, mute andrews

14:06:02 [Zakim]

andrews should now be muted

14:06:14 [jo]

zakim, silence is golden

14:06:14 [Zakim]

sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'silence'

14:06:43 [Zakim]

+ +1.630.414.aaee

14:06:51 [SeanP]

zakim, aaee is me

14:06:51 [Zakim]

+SeanP; got it

14:07:07 [jo]

scribe: Jo

14:08:07 [jo]

Topic: Summary from F2F

14:08:31 [jo]

francois: a great deal of progress - spent whole day of first day on it

14:08:39 [jo]

... want to summarise the progress

14:08:48 [jo]

... as listed in the agenda

14:09:08 [jo]

... 1) we are going to make the doc normative, means rechartering the group

14:09:41 [jo]

... 2) "extensive" discussion about link element and decided to re-introduce "link to self"

14:10:41 [jo]

... we discussed the semantics of link element and resolved a convention to disambiguate the two senses of link element viz "I am" vs "I can be" mobile friendly

14:11:10 [jo]

... 3) we decided to rewrite sect 4.1.2 as "proxy treatment of HTTP request"

14:11:27 [jo]

... 4) use of OPTIONS was relegated to "scope for future work"

14:12:04 [jo]

... 5) we remain silent on whether a CT proxy should be mobileOK and whether it may/should leave mobileOK content alone

14:12:36 [jo]

... 6) we are not going to discuss "session" but discuss "Web site" and leave the term undefined

14:13:27 [jo]

... don't have to do content tasting on all resources of a Web site but should be done when following a link to a new Web site

14:13:53 [jo]

... 7) no difference between proxies that do URI rewriting and those that don't

14:14:04 [jo]

... hence URI rewriting proxies are in scope

14:14:46 [jo]

.... 8) we're going to move the requirements to Scope and remove the ones we could not meet into scope for future work

14:15:13 [jo]

... 9) so now we are left with persistent expression of user preferences

14:15:34 [jo]

... as the remaining outstanding issue

14:15:35 [francois]

q?

14:15:40 [hgerlach]

AI 261?

14:15:42 [jo]

... any questions or comments?

14:16:28 [jo]

heiko: ref ISSUE-261, I mentioned that I would like to have an allow list

14:16:44 [jo]

francois: allow and disallow list is part of the remaining issue

14:17:53 [jo]

heiko: [@@ scribe could not hear]

14:18:13 [jo]

francois: we will come back to allow and disallow list as part of the discussion of this issue

14:18:36 [francois]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jun/0054.html minutes F2F day on CT

14:18:41 [jo]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:18:48 [jo]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:18:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-bpwg-minutes.html jo

14:19:58 [jo]

Topic: ACTION-769

14:20:02 [francois]

ACTION-769?

14:20:02 [trackbot]

ACTION-769 -- François Daoust to ping Soonho on providing feedback -- due 2008-06-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW

14:20:02 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/769

14:20:22 [francois]

Close ACTION-769

14:20:22 [trackbot]

ACTION-769 Ping Soonho on providing feedback closed

14:20:25 [jo]

q+

14:20:33 [francois]

ACTION-711?

14:20:33 [trackbot]

ACTION-711 -- Soonho Lee to provide Feedback on Content Transformation Document -- due 2008-03-13 -- OPEN

14:20:33 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/711

14:21:09 [francois]

ACTION: daoust to see with Soonho if he can find someone else to provide feedback on the document

14:21:09 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-804 - See with Soonho if he can find someone else to provide feedback on the document [on François Daoust - due 2008-07-01].

14:21:10 [jo]

francois: soonho has moved to a new job, so can't do it

14:21:22 [jo]

jo: how about findign someone else to pick it up?

14:21:32 [jo]

s/findign/finding/

14:21:47 [jo]

Topic: ISSUE-242

14:22:05 [jo]

francois: we started discussing this at the F2F but we ran out of time and were totally knackered

14:22:20 [jo]

s/knackered/exhausted/

14:22:48 [jo]

... we decided that it's permissible to ask for a restructured version on a site by site basis

14:23:19 [jo]

... if there is a blanker user preference, if there are multiple representations then the CT proxy should tell the user

14:24:07 [jo]

... we clarified that a CT proxy where there is an arrangement with the server this is out of scope of the guidelines, it counts as adaptation

14:24:45 [jo]

... the no-transform directive means that a redirect is needed

14:25:09 [jo]

... @@@ could not quite keep up, referenced in agenda

14:25:43 [jo]

francois: I want to know if we agree on the goal of addressing section 3.2 "Control of the behavior of the proxy"

14:26:04 [jo]

... the idea is to integrate this section in the rest of the document

14:26:30 [jo]

... and it addresses Sean's point as to clarifying where user control ...

14:26:42 [andrews]

q+

14:26:55 [francois]

ack jo

14:27:20 [andrews]

Zarkim, unmute me

14:27:36 [andrews]

Zakim, unmute me

14:27:36 [Zakim]

andrews should no longer be muted

14:29:18 [jo]

jo: I think that we should have a new draft before considering this in detail

14:29:26 [francois]

ack andrews

14:29:41 [jo]

... enough of the document has changed to make it difficult to see how this all pans out without doing htis

14:30:46 [jo]

... unfortuantely I am not going to get to this for a little while as I have to do a draft of BP and one of mobileOK as top priority to meet the 15 July timeframe for major announcement of BP work

14:31:21 [jo]

francois: ref discussion last week, then we may be able to integrate more clearly where control takes effect

14:31:54 [jo]

... and indicate quite clearly where control takes effect

14:32:06 [SeanP]

q+

14:32:10 [jo]

[above in answer to a question from Andrews requesting clarification]

14:32:31 [francois]

ack SeanP

14:32:32 [jo]

francois: I think we should continue discussion of the issue on the mailing list

14:32:53 [jo]

seanP: I agree I am a bit confused now too and am fine with doing it this way

14:33:22 [jo]

francois: this includes allow and disallow lists in its reference to administrative arrangements

14:33:33 [hgerlach]

+1

14:33:48 [jo]

... in answer to Heiko's earlier question, so we should wait for the updated draft

14:34:06 [jo]

... and I am willing to do all the work, Jo, don't worry

14:34:19 [jo]

[scribe may not have heard the last properly :)]

14:34:56 [jo]

francois: not sure I made that commitment, Jo

14:35:08 [jo]

... any other issues we can take on today's call?

14:35:40 [jo]

[no comments]

14:35:40 [hgerlach]

q+

14:35:49 [jo]

francois: so let's close the call now

14:35:54 [francois]

ack hgerlach

14:36:08 [jo]

heiko: do we have a time line, colleagues are asking

14:37:06 [jo]

francois: the main issue is that the BP doc is going to rec, and there is other stuff like the mobileOK doc that also needs refreshing and those docs have priority over ct because they are about to make major rec track transitions

14:37:36 [jo]

... so basically we are waiting for Jo, and if no one has a comment at that point then we will publish a LCWD and see what people say

14:38:08 [jo]

q+

14:38:12 [francois]

ack jo

14:38:19 [hgerlach]

bye

14:39:49 [francois]

jo: content transformation summit event is informally planned for September in London, and we hope to be in Candidate Recommendation by then, or at the very least still in Last Call

14:40:31 [jo]

jo: hope to have something in next few weeks

14:40:43 [jo]

francois: OK then let's adjourn

14:40:54 [Zakim]

-heiko

14:40:59 [Zakim]

-Francois

14:41:07 [Zakim]

-francois

14:41:09 [jo]

zakim, drop me

14:41:09 [Zakim]

jo is being disconnected

14:41:11 [Zakim]

-jo

14:41:16 [Zakim]

-SeanP

14:41:19 [Zakim]

-andrews

14:41:25 [SeanP]

quit

14:41:30 [Zakim]

-rob

14:41:31 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM has ended

14:41:32 [Zakim]

Attendees were Francois, +049211aaaa, +0208995aabb, +0207287aacc, jo, rob, heiko, +0789972aadd, andrews, +1.630.414.aaee, SeanP

14:41:39 [francois]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:41:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-bpwg-minutes.html francois

14:41:43 [rob]

rob has left #bpwg

14:56:29 [francois]

RRSAgent, bye

14:56:29 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-bpwg-actions.rdf :

14:56:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: daoust to see with Soonho if he can find someone else to provide feedback on the document [1]

14:56:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-bpwg-irc#T14-21-09