IRC log of svg on 2008-06-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

10:30:45 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-irc

10:30:46 [ed]

ed has joined #svg

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RRSAgent, make logs public

10:30:47 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #svg

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Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG

10:30:49 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start now

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Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference

10:30:50 [trackbot]

Date: 19 June 2008

10:31:16 [Zakim]

GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started

10:31:23 [Zakim]

+Doug_Schepers

10:31:34 [Zakim]

+??P7

10:31:44 [Zakim]

+??P8

10:31:46 [anthony]

Zakim, ??P7 is me

10:31:46 [Zakim]

+anthony; got it

10:31:51 [ed]

Zakim, ??P8 is me

10:31:51 [Zakim]

+ed; got it

10:32:26 [Zakim]

+??P9

10:32:30 [heycam]

Zakim, ??P9 is me

10:32:30 [Zakim]

+heycam; got it

10:33:08 [ed]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0144.html

10:33:48 [heycam]

Scribe: Cameron

10:33:52 [heycam]

ScribeNick: heycam

10:34:43 [heycam]

Topic: SVG IG

10:35:11 [heycam]

DS: i met with jeff schiller, who is the co-chair of the SVG IG, along with me

10:35:48 [heycam]

DS: he and i have been working on the wiki and we plan on having a meeting next thursday

10:36:02 [shepazu]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/Meeting_2008-06

10:36:34 [heycam]

DS: we want to basically have a very focussed set of first meetings

10:37:14 [heycam]

DS: one thing that the wiki page doesn't mention is the idea of the "japanese chapter"

10:37:26 [heycam]

DS: i'll dedicate a page on the wiki to that

10:38:46 [heycam]

ED: so the acid test stuff, that's possible future activities, why?

10:38:50 [heycam]

DS: this is svg acid tests

10:39:11 [heycam]

DS: why future and not current? because a good acid test will take a while to build. and we don't want to intimidate people.

10:39:25 [heycam]

DS: we want to set a relatively simple goal and meet it and then move on to the next relatively simple goal

10:39:38 [heycam]

DS: and build up into more complex goals

10:39:46 [heycam]

DS: fwiw jeff's already started on it

10:40:11 [heycam]

DS: we have a number of members

10:40:23 [shepazu]

http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=42368

10:40:25 [heycam]

DS: we're hoping to get more

10:40:33 [heycam]

DS: specifically, we're hoping to get more designers

10:41:24 [heycam]

Topic: Public CVS transition

10:41:27 [heycam]

ED: any progress?

10:41:39 [heycam]

DS: i've made some limited progress

10:41:51 [shepazu]

http://dev.w3.org/SVG/

10:42:21 [heycam]

DS: haven't started moving the files over yet

10:42:44 [heycam]

DS: i was hoping that people owning particular modules would move them over

10:43:48 [heycam]

DS: I guess i can just move 1.2 tiny over directly

10:44:40 [heycam]

CM: the tiny build scripts have dependencies outside the 1.2T directory

10:44:44 [heycam]

DS: ultimately we'll have to fix the scripts

10:46:52 [anthony]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2002

10:46:54 [heycam]

DS: tony, you have a related action to look at scripts and consolidate them?

10:46:58 [heycam]

AG: that's the action

10:47:28 [heycam]

AG: how soon?

10:47:32 [heycam]

DS: next three weeks?

10:47:57 [heycam]

AG: i'd probably just copy the directory over to the new CVS, without checking it in, then get the script running locally first, then commit it

10:48:01 [heycam]

AG: don't think it'd be too difficult

10:49:20 [heycam]

DS: since we're working in public i'm eager to get everything in public

10:49:32 [heycam]

DS: especially because people will be wanting to see why we're making changes in the test suite

10:49:51 [heycam]

ED: so could we expect it to be moved over by some time next week?

10:50:00 [heycam]

s/it/1.2T/

10:50:33 [heycam]

DS: test suite?

10:50:38 [heycam]

ED: no but that would be good to move over too

10:51:40 [heycam]

DS: to start off with i could move the publish/ directory over

10:51:50 [heycam]

AG: the script doesn't look like it does anything too fancy

10:52:25 [heycam]

AG: it doesn't do too much "../../"ing

10:52:28 [heycam]

CM: the idl one might though

10:54:51 [heycam]

DS: somebody said there were some tricky bits. each individual spec had some specialised "bits".

10:55:00 [heycam]

ED: that's what anthony's action is yes, finding the common parts?

10:55:02 [heycam]

DS: right

10:57:51 [heycam]

ED: to clarify, who is moving the spec over?

10:58:07 [heycam]

DS: i will take the action to move over the publish/ directory

10:58:59 [heycam]

DS: should we have a 'spec/' directory in 1.2T/ ?

10:59:04 [heycam]

AG: we have master/ and publish/

10:59:13 [heycam]

AG: don't check anything into the tools/ directory yet

11:00:11 [heycam]

DS: i'll add a master/ and publish/ directory to 1.2T/

11:00:35 [heycam]

DS: i'll move over some of the published stuff, like the in-cvs published 1.2T spec

11:01:03 [heycam]

ACTION: Doug to create a publish/ and master/ directory in CVS, and to copy over the current contents of the 1.2T publish/ directory to dev.w3.org

11:01:04 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2069 - Create a publish/ and master/ directory in CVS, and to copy over the current contents of the 1.2T publish/ directory to dev.w3.org [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-06-26].

11:02:56 [heycam]

DS: and transition of the test suite?

11:03:01 [heycam]

DS: where should that go?

11:03:06 [heycam]

DS: under 1.2T/, yes?

11:03:15 [heycam]

DS: 1.2T/test/

11:03:41 [heycam]

CM: keeping the same structure in the test suite directory? (like svg, svggen, etc.)

11:03:43 [heycam]

AG: yeah

11:05:29 [heycam]

(we decide to hold off on migrating the test suite for now)

11:05:33 [heycam]

Topic: Testsuite publication

11:06:03 [heycam]

DS: i will do it today

11:06:17 [heycam]

ED: the link from the wiki page is incorrect; it links to the old one

11:06:30 [heycam]

DS: andrew put that link in there and asked me to correct it when it's published, which i'll do

11:06:42 [heycam]

AG: is it easy enough to publish?

11:07:01 [heycam]

DS: chrisl says if you upload a lot at once, it gets confused

11:07:22 [heycam]

Topic: 1.1 errata

11:07:57 [heycam]

ED: i edited errata.xml today, so i'd like to discuss my addition

11:08:11 [ed]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0143.html

11:08:39 [ed]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications

11:09:08 [heycam]

ED: we discussed last time why an exception is thrown for negative method parameters, even though the type is unsigned

11:09:28 [heycam]

ED: so i'm wondering if this is something we should fix at all, because there might be differences in different languages

11:09:32 [heycam]

ED: maybe even which type of exception is thrown

11:09:50 [heycam]

ED: so i'm suggesting to keep what we have

11:10:00 [heycam]

ED: i only made some minor corrections in the errata item

11:10:31 [heycam]

CM: can you summarise?

11:10:56 [heycam]

ED: there are exceptions raised for negative first parameter of getSubStringLength(), or if the number of characters you try to measure is greater than the characters in the node

11:11:13 [heycam]

ED: this will be changed so that if you pass length longer than the string that it will be clipped to the number of characters that are there

11:11:20 [heycam]

ED: this will make it similar to selectSubString()

11:11:26 [ed]

If nchars specifies more characters than are available, then the substring will consist of all characters starting with charnum until the end of the list of characters.

11:11:51 [heycam]

ED: so it won't raise an exception any more if you give a very large value for nchars

11:12:11 [heycam]

ED: still raising exception if you use negative values for the first, and a new exception if you use a negative value for the second

11:12:50 [heycam]

ED: next change is that it wasn't clear when you have characters that can't be separated (surrogate pairs, glyphs that map to multiple characters)

11:12:58 [heycam]

ED: now it says the range is expanded to include those

11:13:06 [heycam]

s/those/the whole glyph/

11:13:29 [heycam]

ED: in selectSubString(), there is the change to raise an exception if the second parameter is negative

11:14:02 [heycam]

ED: and in getSubStringLength(), it raises an exception if you pass in a starting character number that is larger than the number of characters in the node

11:14:56 [heycam]

ED: I have a test case too, linked from the errata item

11:14:56 [MikeSmith]

MikeSmith has joined #svg

11:15:12 [heycam]

ED: it tests everything in getSubStringLength(), and i'm going to add a test for selectSubString() too

11:15:20 [heycam]

ED: so i propose we move this errata item to proposed

11:16:47 [heycam]

CM: UTF-16 codepoints vs characters?

11:17:12 [heycam]

ED: there's one errata for getNumberOfChars() that uses the codepoint language

11:23:34 [heycam]

ISSUE: All of the SVGTextContentElement methods should be referring to UTF-16 codepoints instead of characters, in SVG 1.1

11:23:35 [trackbot]

Created ISSUE-2008 - All of the SVGTextContentElement methods should be referring to UTF-16 codepoints instead of characters, in SVG 1.1 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2008/edit .

11:25:15 [heycam]

ACTION: Cameron to fix ISSUE-2008 by adding an errata item that adds a paragraph at the start of SVGTextContentElement about it, and change the getNumberOfChars() one back to using the word "characters"

11:25:15 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2070 - Fix ISSUE-2008 by adding an errata item that adds a paragraph at the start of SVGTextContentElement about it, and change the getNumberOfChars() one back to using the word \"characters\" [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-26].

11:25:50 [heycam]

RESOLUTION: we move ed's SVGTextContentElement errata item to propose

11:26:17 [heycam]

trackbot, close ACTION-2010

11:26:17 [trackbot]

ACTION-2010 Clarify/errata for text DOM methods in SVG 1.1, specify that unrendered characters don't contribute to the computation; remove exceptions of getSubStringLength; clarify about unseparable characters closed

11:26:30 [heycam]

trackbot, you rule

11:26:30 [trackbot]

Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot, you rule'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

11:27:12 [heycam]

ED: publishing the errata?

11:27:34 [heycam]

CM: how about after i do my one

11:28:14 [heycam]

Topic: SVG in HTML

11:28:37 [heycam]

DS: some initial discussion on #html-wg, a few substantive comments

11:28:55 [heycam]

DS: there are two separate proposals, which wasn't so clear

11:29:08 [heycam]

DS: there are some jargon terms in there that aren't defined clearly enough

11:29:26 [heycam]

DS: some confusion about where something in handled (in the parser, tokenizer, whereever)

11:29:44 [heycam]

DS: so we'll have to work on it

11:29:48 [heycam]

AG: it is a draft, after all

11:30:53 [heycam]

DS: there were some comments saying that tony's proposal wouldn't achieve some of the things we were hoping for (e.g. attribute quoting, well-formedness)

11:31:07 [heycam]

DS: and a comment about where it breaks out from the content

11:31:12 [heycam]

DS: so those are the things we'll have to tighten up

11:31:36 [heycam]

ED: so that's not in CVS yet?

11:31:51 [heycam]

DS: maybe i'll make a separate directory for proposals

11:33:13 [heycam]

ED: so we should go through the proposal offline

11:33:57 [heycam]

Topic: Script executing under progressive rendering

11:34:17 [heycam]

http://www.w3.org/mid/20080616054241.GB29149@arc.mcc.id.au

11:34:35 [ed]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0133.html

11:42:23 [heycam]

CM: blah blah <script> order of execution...

11:42:38 [heycam]

(we decide that the important point is that <script> elements execute in document order)

11:42:55 [heycam]

(modulo insertion of new <script> elements into the document)

11:43:11 [heycam]

CM: so i'll propose some text for that as part of my ACTION-2063

11:43:34 [heycam]

Topic: Behaviour of SVGLengthList.replaceItem()

11:43:35 [ed]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0141.html

11:45:08 [heycam]

CM: tested some implementations, none are the same

11:45:15 [heycam]

ED: maybe we can ask the svg community

11:46:41 [heycam]

I think the index is probably the index of the item to be replaced before

11:46:41 [heycam]

the new item has been removed from its current list.

11:46:41 [heycam]

-- Jeff Schiller

11:48:36 [heycam]

ED: i'm happy either way, but would like to choose the more intuitive one

11:48:38 [heycam]

CM: sounds good to me

11:49:02 [heycam]

AG: somebody should reply to jeff saying we decided that way

11:50:03 [heycam]

ACTION: Erik to errata replaceItem() to make the index be before the removal of the argument item in the list, and to reply to jeff on www-svg

11:50:03 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2071 - Errata replaceItem() to make the index be before the removal of the argument item in the list, and to reply to jeff on www-svg [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-26].

11:51:00 [heycam]

Topic: Issues and actions

11:51:02 [ed]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2

11:51:50 [heycam]

ED: two open issues, no actions assigned

11:52:49 [heycam]

trackbot, ISSUE-2003?

11:52:49 [trackbot]

Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot, ISSUE-2003?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

11:53:12 [heycam]

ISSUE-2003?

11:53:12 [trackbot]

ISSUE-2003 -- Resolving IRIs for Resource Documents -- RAISED

11:53:12 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2003

11:56:16 [heycam]

ACTION: Erik to check what Opera does with ISSUE-2003

11:56:17 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2072 - Check what Opera does with ISSUE-2003 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-26].

11:57:30 [heycam]

Topic: ISSUE-2004

11:58:23 [heycam]

CM: how about making the udom default to throwing an exception when NaN or Infinity is passed in to a float parameter?

11:58:31 [heycam]

CM: and then override that in a method description if we need to

11:59:19 [heycam]

CM: maybe not throwing for setFloatTrait()? because traits we define later might use those values?

11:59:23 [heycam]

ED: i think we throw for that method already

11:59:33 [ed]

DOMExceptionTYPE_MISMATCH_ERR: Raised if the requested trait's value cannot be specified as a numeric float (e.g. NaN).

11:59:37 [ed]

setFloatTrait

11:59:45 [ed]

(that's the CR version of the spec)

12:00:21 [heycam]

CM: is Infinity numeric? :)

12:01:44 [heycam]

ACTION: Cameron to investigate existing uses of float in the 1.2T IDL for ISSUE-2004, to see which ones should throw and which shouldn't

12:01:44 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2073 - Investigate existing uses of float in the 1.2T IDL for ISSUE-2004, to see which ones should throw and which shouldn't [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-26].

12:03:17 [heycam]

(we all agree to be more responsive on www-svg :))

12:03:48 [Zakim]

-ed

12:03:49 [Zakim]

-Doug_Schepers

12:03:50 [Zakim]

-heycam

12:03:56 [Zakim]

-anthony

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RRSAgent, list participants

12:03:57 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'list participants', heycam. Try /msg RRSAgent help

12:03:58 [Zakim]

GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended

12:04:00 [Zakim]

Attendees were Doug_Schepers, anthony, ed, heycam

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Zakim, list participants

12:04:12 [Zakim]

sorry, heycam, I don't know what conference this is

12:04:21 [heycam]

RRSAgent, make minutes

12:04:21 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html heycam