IRC log of emotion on 2008-06-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:48:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #emotion
13:48:01 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-emotion-irc
13:48:07 [marc]
zakim, list conferences
13:48:07 [Zakim]
I see IA_XHTML2()4:00AM active
13:48:08 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are UW_UWA()9:00AM, Team_Global(review)8:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, INC_EMOXG()10:00AM, Team_(arch)13:15Z, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM
13:48:22 [marc]
zakim, this will be INC_EMOXG
13:48:22 [Zakim]
ok, marc; I see INC_EMOXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:49:01 [marc]
agenda+ Time of future meetings
13:49:07 [marc]
agenda+ XML vs. OWL
13:49:21 [marc]
agenda+ Starting from existing languages
13:49:35 [marc]
agenda+ Principles that should guide spec writing
13:49:44 [marc]
agenda+ Procedure
13:49:53 [marc]
agenda+ Face-to-Face in Cannes
13:49:57 [marc]
zakim, list agenda
13:49:57 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
13:49:59 [Zakim]
1. Time of future meetings [from marc]
13:50:01 [Zakim]
2. XML vs. OWL [from marc]
13:50:02 [Zakim]
3. Starting from existing languages [from marc]
13:50:03 [Zakim]
4. Principles that should guide spec writing [from marc]
13:50:04 [Zakim]
5. Procedure [from marc]
13:50:04 [Zakim]
6. Face-to-Face in Cannes [from marc]
13:52:05 [IanWilson]
hi marc
13:55:41 [vircuser]
vircuser has joined #emotion
13:55:52 [Zakim]
INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has now started
13:55:54 [vircuser]
exit
13:55:59 [Zakim]
+Rinke
13:56:09 [vircuser]
vircuser has left #emotion
13:56:10 [marc]
zakim, I am Rinke
13:56:10 [Zakim]
ok, marc, I now associate you with Rinke
13:56:17 [marc]
zakim, who is there?
13:56:17 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, marc.
13:56:24 [marc]
zakim, who is here?
13:56:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Rinke
13:56:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, IanWilson, Myriam, trackbot
13:56:31 [felix]
felix has joined #emotion
13:56:42 [felix]
hello
13:57:07 [marc]
hi!
13:57:17 [IanWilson]
hello felix
13:57:48 [marc]
could you guys start joining the phone conf?
13:58:13 [marc]
it's boring talking just to myself... ;-)
13:58:34 [Idoia]
Idoia has joined #emotion
13:58:35 [Zakim]
+Felix_Burkhardt
13:58:56 [Idoia]
hi all!
13:59:51 [felix]
zakim, I am Felix_Burkhardt
13:59:51 [Zakim]
ok, felix, I now associate you with Felix_Burkhardt
14:00:24 [Nestor]
Nestor has joined #emotion
14:00:26 [Zakim]
+??P4
14:00:45 [marc]
zakim, P4 is Ian
14:00:45 [Zakim]
sorry, marc, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'
14:00:54 [marc]
zakim, Ian is P4
14:00:54 [Zakim]
sorry, marc, I do not recognize a party named 'Ian'
14:00:56 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.291.aaaa
14:01:13 [marc]
zakim, ??P4 is Ian
14:01:13 [Zakim]
+Ian; got it
14:01:43 [marc]
zakim, aaaa is Enrico
14:01:43 [Zakim]
+Enrico; got it
14:02:10 [Zakim]
+Andy_Breen
14:02:34 [enrico]
enrico has joined #emotion
14:03:12 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.567.aabb
14:03:41 [marc]
zakim, aabb is Bill
14:03:41 [Zakim]
+Bill; got it
14:03:43 [Zakim]
+ +39.63.aacc
14:03:52 [marc]
zakim, aacc is Catherine
14:03:52 [Zakim]
+Catherine; got it
14:04:46 [Idoia]
Idoia has joined #emotion
14:05:02 [marc]
Hi all, please also join the phone conference
14:05:45 [IanWilson]
ouch
14:06:26 [marc]
zakim, who is here?
14:06:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Rinke, Felix_Burkhardt, Ian, Enrico, Andy_Breen, Bill, Catherine
14:06:28 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Idoia, enrico, felix, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, IanWilson, Myriam, trackbot
14:07:50 [IanWilson]
i will volunteer
14:07:55 [Nestor]
Nestor has joined #emotion
14:08:01 [marc]
thank you Ian!!
14:08:15 [IanWilson]
is everything set up for scribing?
14:08:36 [marc]
Scribe: IanWilson
14:09:32 [andyb]
andyb has joined #emotion
14:09:37 [cath]
cath has joined #emotion
14:09:52 [IanWilson]
ScribeNick: Ian
14:09:58 [marc]
next item
14:10:05 [Nestor]
Nestor has left #emotion
14:10:20 [Nestor]
Nestor has joined #emotion
14:11:12 [IanWilson]
present: Marc Schröder
14:11:47 [Zakim]
+Myriam_Arrue
14:12:36 [bill]
bill has joined #emotion
14:14:12 [marc]
next item
14:14:50 [IanWilson]
present: Marc Schröder, Felix Burkhardt, Andy Breen, Zovato Enrico, Bill Jarrold, Myriam Lamolle, Catherine Pelachaud,
14:15:03 [andyb]
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14:15:35 [IanWilson]
ACTION: Marc to keep time schedule - due 2006.6.19
14:15:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-17 - keep time schedule [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].
14:17:38 [IanWilson]
Marc asks whether we agree that XML is the format we should progress with
14:18:09 [IanWilson]
Ian says connection to other groups (who seem to all be using XML) will be very difficult unless we do not use XML
14:18:55 [IanWilson]
Andy says Commercial organizations will have difficulty accepting anything but XML
14:19:16 [IanWilson]
Bill says that OWL has flexibility
14:20:28 [felix]
I vote for using XML cause I think it meets the requirements fair enough (gut feeling) and is known much wider than OWL which will help spreading the use
14:20:37 [IanWilson]
Bill has shown with his example (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/billj/custom-descriptor-challenge/) OWL can be use sub classes as our specification calls for
14:20:50 [marc]
next item
14:21:20 [marc]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/emotion/XGR-emotion/#ExistingLanguages
14:21:32 [IanWilson]
After a vote (Bill abstention due to lack of XML knowledge) we agree to move forward with XML as our format of choice
14:21:38 [marc]
this link contains a set of links to things from existing markup languages that we could build upon
14:27:49 [IanWilson]
After surveying various other current XML specifications points made are that they are complimentary to what we are trying to do
14:29:00 [IanWilson]
Marc notes that we are not trying to redefine existing language features in our languages
14:29:39 [IanWilson]
Instead we could look at how they have already solved problems we need to solve and perhaps use their solutions or be inspired by them
14:29:42 [marc]
next item
14:30:25 [marc]
e.g. "simple cases should look simple"
14:30:40 [marc]
... or "structure should be explicit enough to avoid confusion"
14:31:05 [IanWilson]
Here is a more general set of best practices : http://www.xfront.com/BestPracticesHomepage.html
14:32:34 [IanWilson]
Marc notes that apparently a first working draft does not contain an XML schema
14:33:00 [IanWilson]
so we should focus our discussions on syntax
14:33:27 [Zakim]
-Andy_Breen
14:34:57 [IanWilson]
Andy says we should focus on incorporating other languages as much as possible
14:37:20 [IanWilson]
Ian says perhaps we can bias our representation towards being explicit
14:38:05 [IanWilson]
Bill asks to clarify the definition of "explicit" and "implicit"
14:38:26 [IanWilson]
Marc explains about EARLs implicit structure
14:39:54 [IanWilson]
Felix mentions that we have already agreed some of the points
14:42:04 [IanWilson]
ACTION: XMLGroup to show examples of explicit and implicit structure - due 2008.6.26
14:42:04 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - XMLGroup
14:42:20 [IanWilson]
ACTION: marc to show examples of explicit and implicit structure - due 2008.6.26
14:42:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-18 - show examples of explicit and implicit structure [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].
14:42:29 [marc]
next item
14:43:13 [IanWilson]
Enrico suggests that our choice of guiding principals be guided by first writing examples
14:43:37 [IanWilson]
Marc asks for volunteers for the XML group
14:44:08 [felix]
I volunteer
14:44:15 [marc]
I volunteer
14:44:53 [IanWilson]
ACTION: felix to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19
14:44:54 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-19 - join first XML group [on Felix Burkhardt - due 2008-06-19].
14:45:15 [IanWilson]
ACTION: marc to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19
14:45:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-20 - join first XML group [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].
14:45:32 [IanWilson]
I volunteer
14:45:50 [IanWilson]
ACTION: ian to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19
14:45:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-21 - join first XML group [on Ian Wilson - due 2008-06-19].
14:46:39 [IanWilson]
ACTION: felix, marc, ian to discuss separately how to proceed with XML group - due 2008.6.26
14:46:39 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - felix,
14:47:12 [IanWilson]
Marc asks how other would like to follow the discussions
14:47:49 [IanWilson]
Bill would like to follow the discussions
14:49:07 [IanWilson]
Ian says that the dynamics are different between group and private communicatuions
14:49:48 [IanWilson]
Marc says that he would prefer initially to keep discussions within the small group
14:50:16 [IanWilson]
Ian says perhaps we can "cc" other interested parties
14:51:18 [IanWilson]
Marc suggests sending a note to the public mailing list posting that we are discussing things in a small group and anyone else interested should let us know
14:51:41 [IanWilson]
ACTION: marc to notify public mailing list of XML group - due 2008.6.19
14:51:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-22 - notify public mailing list of XML group [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].
14:52:25 [IanWilson]
ACTION: felix, marc, ian to something as a basis for discussion - due 2008.7.3
14:52:25 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - felix,
14:52:42 [marc]
next item
14:54:27 [felix]
yes I agree to try to organize a Cannes f2f
14:54:45 [IanWilson]
Marc asks if he should proceed with organizing a Cannes f2f meeting
14:55:37 [Zakim]
-Bill
14:55:39 [Zakim]
-Catherine
14:55:39 [Zakim]
-Myriam_Arrue
14:55:41 [Zakim]
-Enrico
14:57:11 [marc]
Meeting: Emotion Markup Language
14:57:18 [marc]
Chair: Marc Schroeder
14:57:50 [marc]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jun/0004.html
14:58:08 [marc]
ScribeNick: IanWilson
14:58:36 [marc]
Regrets: Jianhua, Bjoern, Nestor, Paolo
14:58:54 [marc]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:59:04 [marc]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-emotion-minutes.html marc
14:59:46 [IanWilson]
who is Idoia?
15:00:19 [marc]
http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=39402
15:07:54 [Zakim]
-Rinke
15:07:56 [Zakim]
-Felix_Burkhardt
15:07:57 [Zakim]
INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has ended
15:07:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were Rinke, Felix_Burkhardt, +39.011.291.aaaa, Ian, Enrico, Andy_Breen, +1.512.567.aabb, Bill, +39.63.aacc, Catherine, Myriam_Arrue
15:08:16 [IanWilson]
quit