IRC log of emotion on 2008-06-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:48:01 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #emotion

13:48:01 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-emotion-irc

13:48:07 [marc]

zakim, list conferences

13:48:07 [Zakim]

I see IA_XHTML2()4:00AM active

13:48:08 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time are UW_UWA()9:00AM, Team_Global(review)8:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, INC_EMOXG()10:00AM, Team_(arch)13:15Z, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM

13:48:22 [marc]

zakim, this will be INC_EMOXG

13:48:22 [Zakim]

ok, marc; I see INC_EMOXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

13:49:01 [marc]

agenda+ Time of future meetings

13:49:07 [marc]

agenda+ XML vs. OWL

13:49:21 [marc]

agenda+ Starting from existing languages

13:49:35 [marc]

agenda+ Principles that should guide spec writing

13:49:44 [marc]

agenda+ Procedure

13:49:53 [marc]

agenda+ Face-to-Face in Cannes

13:49:57 [marc]

zakim, list agenda

13:49:57 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

13:49:59 [Zakim]

1. Time of future meetings [from marc]

13:50:01 [Zakim]

2. XML vs. OWL [from marc]

13:50:02 [Zakim]

3. Starting from existing languages [from marc]

13:50:03 [Zakim]

4. Principles that should guide spec writing [from marc]

13:50:04 [Zakim]

5. Procedure [from marc]

13:50:04 [Zakim]

6. Face-to-Face in Cannes [from marc]

13:52:05 [IanWilson]

hi marc

13:55:41 [vircuser]

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13:55:52 [Zakim]

INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has now started

13:55:54 [vircuser]

exit

13:55:59 [Zakim]

+Rinke

13:56:09 [vircuser]

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13:56:10 [marc]

zakim, I am Rinke

13:56:10 [Zakim]

ok, marc, I now associate you with Rinke

13:56:17 [marc]

zakim, who is there?

13:56:17 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, marc.

13:56:24 [marc]

zakim, who is here?

13:56:24 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Rinke

13:56:25 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, IanWilson, Myriam, trackbot

13:56:31 [felix]

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13:56:42 [felix]

hello

13:57:07 [marc]

hi!

13:57:17 [IanWilson]

hello felix

13:57:48 [marc]

could you guys start joining the phone conf?

13:58:13 [marc]

it's boring talking just to myself... ;-)

13:58:34 [Idoia]

Idoia has joined #emotion

13:58:35 [Zakim]

+Felix_Burkhardt

13:58:56 [Idoia]

hi all!

13:59:51 [felix]

zakim, I am Felix_Burkhardt

13:59:51 [Zakim]

ok, felix, I now associate you with Felix_Burkhardt

14:00:24 [Nestor]

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14:00:26 [Zakim]

+??P4

14:00:45 [marc]

zakim, P4 is Ian

14:00:45 [Zakim]

sorry, marc, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'

14:00:54 [marc]

zakim, Ian is P4

14:00:54 [Zakim]

sorry, marc, I do not recognize a party named 'Ian'

14:00:56 [Zakim]

+ +39.011.291.aaaa

14:01:13 [marc]

zakim, ??P4 is Ian

14:01:13 [Zakim]

+Ian; got it

14:01:43 [marc]

zakim, aaaa is Enrico

14:01:43 [Zakim]

+Enrico; got it

14:02:10 [Zakim]

+Andy_Breen

14:02:34 [enrico]

enrico has joined #emotion

14:03:12 [Zakim]

+ +1.512.567.aabb

14:03:41 [marc]

zakim, aabb is Bill

14:03:41 [Zakim]

+Bill; got it

14:03:43 [Zakim]

+ +39.63.aacc

14:03:52 [marc]

zakim, aacc is Catherine

14:03:52 [Zakim]

+Catherine; got it

14:04:46 [Idoia]

Idoia has joined #emotion

14:05:02 [marc]

Hi all, please also join the phone conference

14:05:45 [IanWilson]

ouch

14:06:26 [marc]

zakim, who is here?

14:06:27 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Rinke, Felix_Burkhardt, Ian, Enrico, Andy_Breen, Bill, Catherine

14:06:28 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Idoia, enrico, felix, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, IanWilson, Myriam, trackbot

14:07:50 [IanWilson]

i will volunteer

14:07:55 [Nestor]

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14:08:01 [marc]

thank you Ian!!

14:08:15 [IanWilson]

is everything set up for scribing?

14:08:36 [marc]

Scribe: IanWilson

14:09:32 [andyb]

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14:09:37 [cath]

cath has joined #emotion

14:09:52 [IanWilson]

ScribeNick: Ian

14:09:58 [marc]

next item

14:10:05 [Nestor]

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14:10:20 [Nestor]

Nestor has joined #emotion

14:11:12 [IanWilson]

present: Marc Schröder

14:11:47 [Zakim]

+Myriam_Arrue

14:12:36 [bill]

bill has joined #emotion

14:14:12 [marc]

next item

14:14:50 [IanWilson]

present: Marc Schröder, Felix Burkhardt, Andy Breen, Zovato Enrico, Bill Jarrold, Myriam Lamolle, Catherine Pelachaud,

14:15:03 [andyb]

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14:15:35 [IanWilson]

ACTION: Marc to keep time schedule - due 2006.6.19

14:15:35 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-17 - keep time schedule [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].

14:17:38 [IanWilson]

Marc asks whether we agree that XML is the format we should progress with

14:18:09 [IanWilson]

Ian says connection to other groups (who seem to all be using XML) will be very difficult unless we do not use XML

14:18:55 [IanWilson]

Andy says Commercial organizations will have difficulty accepting anything but XML

14:19:16 [IanWilson]

Bill says that OWL has flexibility

14:20:28 [felix]

I vote for using XML cause I think it meets the requirements fair enough (gut feeling) and is known much wider than OWL which will help spreading the use

14:20:37 [IanWilson]

Bill has shown with his example (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/billj/custom-descriptor-challenge/) OWL can be use sub classes as our specification calls for

14:20:50 [marc]

next item

14:21:20 [marc]

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/emotion/XGR-emotion/#ExistingLanguages

14:21:32 [IanWilson]

After a vote (Bill abstention due to lack of XML knowledge) we agree to move forward with XML as our format of choice

14:21:38 [marc]

this link contains a set of links to things from existing markup languages that we could build upon

14:27:49 [IanWilson]

After surveying various other current XML specifications points made are that they are complimentary to what we are trying to do

14:29:00 [IanWilson]

Marc notes that we are not trying to redefine existing language features in our languages

14:29:39 [IanWilson]

Instead we could look at how they have already solved problems we need to solve and perhaps use their solutions or be inspired by them

14:29:42 [marc]

next item

14:30:25 [marc]

e.g. "simple cases should look simple"

14:30:40 [marc]

... or "structure should be explicit enough to avoid confusion"

14:31:05 [IanWilson]

Here is a more general set of best practices : http://www.xfront.com/BestPracticesHomepage.html

14:32:34 [IanWilson]

Marc notes that apparently a first working draft does not contain an XML schema

14:33:00 [IanWilson]

so we should focus our discussions on syntax

14:33:27 [Zakim]

-Andy_Breen

14:34:57 [IanWilson]

Andy says we should focus on incorporating other languages as much as possible

14:37:20 [IanWilson]

Ian says perhaps we can bias our representation towards being explicit

14:38:05 [IanWilson]

Bill asks to clarify the definition of "explicit" and "implicit"

14:38:26 [IanWilson]

Marc explains about EARLs implicit structure

14:39:54 [IanWilson]

Felix mentions that we have already agreed some of the points

14:42:04 [IanWilson]

ACTION: XMLGroup to show examples of explicit and implicit structure - due 2008.6.26

14:42:04 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - XMLGroup

14:42:20 [IanWilson]

ACTION: marc to show examples of explicit and implicit structure - due 2008.6.26

14:42:20 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-18 - show examples of explicit and implicit structure [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].

14:42:29 [marc]

next item

14:43:13 [IanWilson]

Enrico suggests that our choice of guiding principals be guided by first writing examples

14:43:37 [IanWilson]

Marc asks for volunteers for the XML group

14:44:08 [felix]

I volunteer

14:44:15 [marc]

I volunteer

14:44:53 [IanWilson]

ACTION: felix to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19

14:44:54 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-19 - join first XML group [on Felix Burkhardt - due 2008-06-19].

14:45:15 [IanWilson]

ACTION: marc to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19

14:45:15 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-20 - join first XML group [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].

14:45:32 [IanWilson]

I volunteer

14:45:50 [IanWilson]

ACTION: ian to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19

14:45:50 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-21 - join first XML group [on Ian Wilson - due 2008-06-19].

14:46:39 [IanWilson]

ACTION: felix, marc, ian to discuss separately how to proceed with XML group - due 2008.6.26

14:46:39 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - felix,

14:47:12 [IanWilson]

Marc asks how other would like to follow the discussions

14:47:49 [IanWilson]

Bill would like to follow the discussions

14:49:07 [IanWilson]

Ian says that the dynamics are different between group and private communicatuions

14:49:48 [IanWilson]

Marc says that he would prefer initially to keep discussions within the small group

14:50:16 [IanWilson]

Ian says perhaps we can "cc" other interested parties

14:51:18 [IanWilson]

Marc suggests sending a note to the public mailing list posting that we are discussing things in a small group and anyone else interested should let us know

14:51:41 [IanWilson]

ACTION: marc to notify public mailing list of XML group - due 2008.6.19

14:51:41 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-22 - notify public mailing list of XML group [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].

14:52:25 [IanWilson]

ACTION: felix, marc, ian to something as a basis for discussion - due 2008.7.3

14:52:25 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - felix,

14:52:42 [marc]

next item

14:54:27 [felix]

yes I agree to try to organize a Cannes f2f

14:54:45 [IanWilson]

Marc asks if he should proceed with organizing a Cannes f2f meeting

14:55:37 [Zakim]

-Bill

14:55:39 [Zakim]

-Catherine

14:55:39 [Zakim]

-Myriam_Arrue

14:55:41 [Zakim]

-Enrico

14:57:11 [marc]

Meeting: Emotion Markup Language

14:57:18 [marc]

Chair: Marc Schroeder

14:57:50 [marc]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jun/0004.html

14:58:08 [marc]

ScribeNick: IanWilson

14:58:36 [marc]

Regrets: Jianhua, Bjoern, Nestor, Paolo

14:58:54 [marc]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:59:04 [marc]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:59:04 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-emotion-minutes.html marc

14:59:46 [IanWilson]

who is Idoia?

15:00:19 [marc]

http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=39402

15:07:54 [Zakim]

-Rinke

15:07:56 [Zakim]

-Felix_Burkhardt

15:07:57 [Zakim]

INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has ended

15:07:58 [Zakim]

Attendees were Rinke, Felix_Burkhardt, +39.011.291.aaaa, Ian, Enrico, Andy_Breen, +1.512.567.aabb, Bill, +39.63.aacc, Catherine, Myriam_Arrue

15:08:16 [IanWilson]

quit