16:48:42 RRSAgent has joined #owl 16:48:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/18-owl-irc 16:49:07 pfps has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.06.18/Agenda 16:49:19 Zakim, this will be owlwg 16:49:19 ok, pfps; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 49 minutes ago 16:49:28 ScribeNick: pfps 16:49:39 RRSAgent, make records public 16:51:21 bcuencagrau has joined #owl 16:54:23 alanr has joined #owl 16:55:07 Rinke has joined #owl 16:55:24 baojie has joined #owl 16:57:08 SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started 16:57:16 +Peter_Patel-Schneider 16:58:29 uli has joined #owl 16:59:24 +??P16 17:00:03 +MartinD 17:00:07 zakim, mute me 17:00:08 sorry, uli, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 17:00:17 zakim, ??P16 is me 17:00:18 +uli; got it 17:00:19 zakim, mute me 17:00:19 uli should now be muted 17:00:24 zakim, mute me 17:00:24 MartinD should now be muted 17:00:25 Zhe has joined #owl 17:00:31 +baojie 17:00:52 msmith has joined #owl 17:01:08 IanH has joined #owl 17:01:14 bmotik has joined #owl 17:01:20 +Zhe 17:01:21 +??P20 17:01:28 Zakim, ??P20 is me 17:01:28 +bcuencagrau; got it 17:01:36 +??P21 17:01:41 Zakim, ??P21 is me 17:01:41 +bmotik; got it 17:01:52 +Alan 17:01:55 +IanH 17:02:14 +msmith 17:02:24 Topic: Admin 17:02:30 Zakim, mute me 17:02:30 bcuencagrau should now be muted 17:02:55 Subtopic: Roll call 17:03:02 Zakim, who is on the call? 17:03:02 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, uli (muted), MartinD (muted), baojie, Zhe, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik, Alan, IanH (muted), msmith 17:03:15 Zakim, who is here? 17:03:15 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, uli (muted), MartinD (muted), baojie, Zhe, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik, Alan, IanH (muted), msmith 17:03:17 On IRC I see bmotik, IanH, msmith, Zhe, uli, baojie, Rinke, alanr, bcuencagrau, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, sandro, pfps, trackbot 17:03:19 Achille has joined #OWL 17:04:34 +[IBM] 17:04:43 Zakim, IBM is me 17:04:43 +Achille; got it 17:05:13 Zakim, who is here? 17:05:13 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, uli (muted), MartinD (muted), baojie, Zhe, bcuencagrau (muted), bmotik, Alan, IanH (muted), msmith, Achille 17:05:15 On IRC I see Achille, bmotik, IanH, msmith, Zhe, uli, baojie, alanr, bcuencagrau, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, sandro, pfps, trackbot 17:05:31 Subtopic: Agenda amendments 17:05:32 m_schnei has joined #owl 17:05:47 alanr: move imports from resolve to discuss 17:05:57 alanr: quick update on testing 17:06:16 Subtopic: approve minutes 17:06:31 PROPOSED: Accept Previous Previous Minutes (04 June) 17:07:18 pfps: formatting looks different 17:07:28 +??P0 17:07:29 alanr: other opinions? 17:07:31 zakim, unmute me 17:07:31 uli should no longer be muted 17:07:35 zakim, ??P0 is me 17:07:35 +m_schnei; got it 17:07:38 -bmotik 17:07:43 zakim, mute me 17:07:43 m_schnei should now be muted 17:07:48 zakim, mute me 17:07:48 uli should now be muted 17:07:50 uli: 4th are OK, 11th worse 17:07:56 +??P1 17:08:01 Zakim, ??P1 is me 17:08:01 +bmotik; got it 17:08:05 Zakim, mute me 17:08:05 bmotik should now be muted 17:08:19 no 17:08:21 alanr: review minutes next week for formatting issues 17:08:28 alanr: objections? - none 17:08:58 Subtopic: F2F3 17:09:07 alanr: please indicate registration status 17:09:20 Subtopic: Action item status 17:09:25 Zakim, unmute me 17:09:25 bmotik should no longer be muted 17:09:51 alanr: ACTION160 pending 17:10:07 boris: everything OK except status of top in EL++ 17:10:13 alanr: Zhe? 17:10:31 ...say againb 17:10:36 Zhe: OK with current status 17:10:51 alanr: should bottom role be added separately where OK? 17:10:59 q+ to ask about dl-lite 17:11:06 q? 17:11:07 boris: they should be added as pairs as they are converses 17:11:13 zakim, unmute me 17:11:13 uli should no longer be muted 17:11:13 ack msmith 17:11:15 msmith, you wanted to ask about dl-lite 17:11:25 msmith: is top OK in dl-lite 17:11:57 boris: might change complexity, but I don't know, so an investigation would be needed to add it 17:12:08 alanr: add an issue for this? 17:12:34 +1 to close action. this can be discussed on list. 17:12:35 uli: action on me to ask Diego whether dl-lite can accept top 17:12:41 zakim, mute me 17:12:41 uli should now be muted 17:12:55 alanr: ACTION160 closed 17:13:07 ACTION42 17:13:14 alanr: Bijan not here so pass 17:13:18 ACTION150 17:13:23 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/InternalizedString 17:13:39 alanr: has anyone looked at the document 17:13:55 alanr: intent of action is to also start discussion 17:14:14 baojie: I gathered information 17:14:24 q+ 17:14:33 ack bmotik 17:14:39 alanr: can you also initiate discussion with RIF WG? 17:14:46 baojie: OK 17:14:58 boris: is this all going to a new document? 17:15:17 baojie: the page is not part of the spec, but it will lead to something 17:15:18 q? 17:15:40 Yes, I thought it was to be a spec, in case we beat RIF forward 17:15:43 alanr: Ivan was suggesting a mini-specification, but the WG stance was not clear 17:16:32 alanr: there should be some publication in some form 17:17:05 alanr: there would then be something for both WGs to point to 17:17:19 ACTION 155 17:17:19 Sorry, bad ACTION syntax 17:17:28 ACTION155 17:17:42 alanr: Ivan not here so postpone 17:17:52 ACTION156 and ACTION157 17:18:06 alanr: I'm behind so postpone 17:18:15 Topic: Issues 17:18:25 Subtopic: ISSUE109 17:18:47 bijan has joined #owl 17:18:48 alanr: what namespace to use for owl xml syntax 17:19:02 alanr: Ivan's email summarizes the situation 17:19:11 alanr: vote on the issue 17:19:24 +??P2 17:19:32 zakim, ??P2 is me 17:19:32 +bijan; got it 17:19:36 Hi 17:19:41 zakim, mute me 17:19:41 bijan should now be muted 17:19:54 zakim, unmute me 17:19:54 bijan should no longer be muted 17:20:07 zakim, mute me 17:20:07 bijan should now be muted 17:20:35 PROPOSED: Use one namespace (vote 1) two namespaces (vote 2) or don't care (vote 0) 17:20:44 pfps: 1 17:20:45 2 17:20:46 q+ 17:20:46 0 17:20:49 1 17:20:49 1 17:20:49 1 17:20:53 0 17:20:55 2 (fzi) 17:21:05 2 17:21:14 Ivan: 2 17:21:36 zakim, unmute me 17:21:36 bijan should no longer be muted 17:21:38 vote 0 (C&P) 17:21:49 2 (science commons) 17:21:51 Achille: if we use the same namespace, will there be different things using the same URI 17:22:29 bijan: no overlap (URI vs Qname), no overlap even discounting this 17:22:39 0 (Oracle) 17:22:39 1 17:22:44 0(RPI) 17:22:46 1 (Achille) 17:22:50 1 (IBM) 17:22:52 revised vote 1 (C&P) 17:23:29 yes 17:23:29 yes 17:23:40 1 (Manchester) 17:24:09 revision ... 2 (OU) 17:24:12 Oxford: 0 17:25:14 I see 4x0 3x1 4x2 17:25:23 4 x 1 17:25:49 3x0 4x1 4x2 17:25:50 ? 17:25:54 q+ 17:25:57 zakim, unmut eme 17:25:57 I don't understand 'unmut eme', bijan 17:26:03 ack achille 17:26:03 zakim, unmute me 17:26:04 bijan was not muted, bijan 17:26:08 ack bijan 17:26:50 who is OU? 17:27:48 alanr: and the result is a tie! the chairs will figure out if it really is a tie 17:28:00 zakim, mute me 17:28:00 bijan should now be muted 17:28:16 Subtopic: ISSUE112 17:28:26 alanr: names of top and bottom properties 17:28:40 boris: topObjectProperty, bottomObjectProperty, ... 17:28:48 q? 17:28:56 boris: ..., topDataProperty, bottomDataProperty 17:29:00 q? 17:29:07 They are called owl:TopObjectProperty, owl:BottomObjectProperty, owl:TopDataProperty, owl:BottomDataProperty 17:29:39 PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE 112 adding top and bottom properties with the names owl:TopObjectProperty, owl:BottomObjectProperty, owl:TopDataProperty, owl:BottomDataProperty 17:29:41 Nope 17:29:46 zakim, unmute me 17:29:46 bijan should no longer be muted 17:30:05 if there is bottomDataProperty, why isn't there owl:DataNothing? 17:30:07 alanr: Does this mess up the "single" root of property hierarchies? 17:30:30 +1 17:30:32 +1 17:30:32 +1 to resolve issue-112 as stated 17:30:33 +1 17:30:36 0 17:30:36 +1 17:30:42 +1 17:30:45 zakim, mute me 17:30:45 bijan should now be muted 17:30:47 +1 17:30:49 +1 17:30:51 pfps:+1 to resolve issue-112 as stated 17:30:52 +1 17:30:54 0 17:30:56 +1 17:31:07 RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE 112 adding top and bottom properties with the names owl:TopObjectProperty, owl:BottomObjectProperty, owl:TopDataProperty, owl:BottomDataProperty 17:31:13 q+ 17:31:24 ack m_schnei 17:32:03 +q 17:32:08 m_schnei: is there a difference between Nothing and the empty datatype? 17:32:10 q+ 17:32:11 ack bmotik 17:32:13 q? 17:32:27 m_schnei: do we need a name for the empty datatype? 17:33:04 boris: for properties we need the two bottom properties to allow for syntactic typing of expressions 17:33:31 m_schneid: what about empty datatype name? 17:33:33 zakim, unmute me 17:33:33 bijan should no longer be muted 17:33:43 complementOf(rdfs:literal)? 17:33:49 boris: we can have it - but there is already syntax for it 17:34:04 bijan: i go either way 17:34:04 zakim, mute me 17:34:04 m_schnei should now be muted 17:34:09 zakim, mute me 17:34:09 bijan should now be muted 17:34:32 Subtopic: ISSUE-21 and ISSUE-24 17:35:54 IanH: there has been extensive discussion leading to a "resolution" 17:36:21 IanH: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jun/0126.html 17:36:32 q? 17:37:11 q- 17:37:18 q? 17:37:23 pfps: wording has problems for me - also incompatibleWith gives syntactic invalidity 17:37:39 boris: this has been there a few weeks 17:38:10 q+ 17:38:29 pfps: my problem was the wording of Alan's message - syntactic invalidity 17:38:41 boris: incompatibleWith has been in a while 17:39:17 q? 17:39:18 boris: still a should - only change is to call the problem a syntactic invalidity 17:39:48 q+ 17:40:30 alanr: two cases - 1 - imports of two different versions of the ontology - 2 - importing incompatibleWith ontologies 17:40:32 q+ 17:40:51 alanr: were treated differently - changed to be the same way 17:41:03 q? 17:41:13 ack alanr 17:41:24 zakim, mute me 17:41:24 m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei 17:41:24 alanr: syntactic invalidity was borrowed from case 2 17:41:37 from case 1, peter 17:41:45 zakim, mute me 17:41:45 m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei 17:41:49 ack m_schnei 17:41:53 ack bmotik 17:41:58 peter: do you catch the scribe correction? 17:42:00 boris: intention was to treat both cases the same 17:42:09 no! 17:42:19 q? 17:42:38 boris: now they are both treated the same way 17:43:18 pfps: I don't consider this to be a syntactic problem - instead it is something else 17:43:50 q+ 17:44:02 IanH: then what should happen 17:44:04 q? 17:44:06 zakim, mute me 17:44:06 m_schnei should now be muted 17:44:14 q? 17:44:18 ack bmotik 17:44:28 boris: should allows exceptions 17:44:45 IanH: both cases should be the same 17:44:55 pfps: both are the same 17:45:28 pfps: syntactic validity *should* not involved a should 17:45:39 q+ to ask one more question 17:45:41 IanH: let's take this to email 17:45:57 q? 17:45:57 in reverse RDF mapping, what happens if incompatibleWith occurs? is rdf graph rejected to be syntactically invalid OWL DL? 17:46:01 ack alanr 17:46:01 alanr, you wanted to ask one more question 17:46:38 alanr: status of incompatibleWith on third-party ontologies 17:46:43 boris: resolve together 17:47:09 IanH: let's push for a single solution 17:47:25 Subtopic: ISSUE-108 17:47:37 alanr: what to name the profiles 17:47:53 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0120.html 17:48:01 alanr: contenders - one- and two-letter suffixes (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0120.html) 17:48:47 alanr: [lists the possibilities] 17:48:50 I'll note that I was misremembering earlier :( I just brain farted about e.g., owl:ObjectProprety. I'll send an email :( 17:48:52 DDL is bad because it sounds too much like "distributed description logics" 17:49:00 q? 17:49:08 alanr: I prefer the one-letter versions 17:49:31 ..the link above seems to be broken 17:49:41 Not for me! 17:50:07 ...the ")" was the culprit, it works 17:50:42 1) OWL2E 2) OWL2 E 3) OWL E 17:50:57 q+ 17:50:58 In general, we have write "OWL 2" (with a space) 17:51:03 s/write/written 17:51:14 4) OWL 2 E 17:51:17 Yes 17:51:18 yes 17:51:21 OWL 2e 17:51:29 OWL E 2 17:51:37 5) OWL 2E 17:51:43 I mean this seriously... 17:51:51 6) OWL E 2 17:51:55 But isnt' the first version of OWL E? 17:51:59 OWL E2? 17:52:20 OWLE2? 17:52:23 2 be or not 2 be 17:52:32 Not serious 17:52:35 I just meant that I don't understand 6) 17:53:13 1) "OWL2E" 2) "OWL2 E" 3) "OWL E" 4) "OWL 2 E" 5) "OWL 2E" 6) "OWL E 2" 17:53:21 q+ 17:53:24 q- 17:53:24 zakim, unmute me 17:53:25 bijan should no longer be muted 17:53:28 ack pfps 17:53:31 zakim, unmute me 17:53:31 m_schnei should no longer be muted 17:53:37 ack m_schnei 17:53:55 ...no it wouldn't help us 17:53:59 zakim, mute me 17:53:59 m_schnei should now be muted 17:54:00 m_schnei: so consider OWL 2 Lite, ... 17:54:05 "OWL E 2" sounds like the second version of OWL E, not the E version of OWL 2 :) 17:54:14 4 17:54:18 3 17:54:19 Straw Poll: put in preference (single vote) 17:54:21 4 17:54:25 3 17:54:27 3 or 4 17:54:28 pfps: 4 17:54:33 5 (lowercase) 17:54:36 1 or 4 17:54:41 4 17:54:51 4 or 3 17:54:52 OOo, OWL^2^e 17:54:55 2 17:55:01 1 17:55:06 3 17:55:06 hey, what about the single vote? 17:55:31 q+ 17:55:33 ok, I am going to withdraw 6 ;-) 17:55:42 zakim, mute me 17:55:42 m_schnei was already muted, m_schnei 17:55:55 msmith: we are talking about spacing 17:55:56 good idea! 17:56:54 We didn't consider hyphens! 17:56:55 1) E, D, R 2) EL, DB, LP for EL++, DL Lite, OWL R 17:57:24 there was an alternative for the 2letter version for LP 17:57:52 2 17:57:54 2 17:57:55 alanr: if the choice is two-letters we will later decide on which letters 17:57:59 1 17:58:00 1 17:58:01 2 chars 17:58:04 1 17:58:09 2 17:58:10 Staw Poll: one letter vs two letters 17:58:11 pfps: 0 17:58:12 1 to reduce search space 17:58:12 1 17:58:15 0 17:58:19 2 17:58:21 1 17:58:48 I guess I could change to 1 17:59:07 +q 17:59:09 I should own up to the fact that 3 twos came from Oxford 17:59:12 alanr: and the result is ............. 1 letter ...... by a hair 17:59:16 ack msmith 17:59:23 ack bmotik 17:59:23 +q 17:59:42 -Alan 17:59:44 phone crapped out. back in a sec 17:59:54 q+ 17:59:55 +1 for boris 17:59:57 zakim, mute me 17:59:57 bijan should now be muted 17:59:58 zakim, unmute me 17:59:58 IanH should no longer be muted 17:59:59 Zakim, unmute me 18:00:00 bcuencagrau should no longer be muted 18:00:02 zakim, unmute me 18:00:02 bijan should no longer be muted 18:00:09 boris: we should consider which one-letter names 18:00:11 +Alan_Ruttenberg 18:00:33 q? 18:01:11 boris: OWL 2 E could be OWL 2 T (for tboxes) 18:01:19 OWL 2 Tax 18:01:22 ack bcencagrau 18:01:24 eee 18:01:32 ack bcuencagrau 18:01:50 ack bijan 18:01:54 bernardo: E doesn't mean anything, we need a better letter for it 18:01:56 Zakim, unmute me 18:01:56 bcuencagrau was not muted, bcuencagrau 18:02:00 Zakim, mute me 18:02:00 bcuencagrau should now be muted 18:02:01 Agree with Bernardo! 18:02:45 expand "tbox"... "T" for defining "[T]erminologies 18:02:47 second Bijan 18:03:01 ...a bit of mnemonic helps, but there can be too much in a name! 18:03:02 +q 18:03:08 bijan: the names should just be "names", i.e., with no inherent meaning 18:03:09 q+ 18:03:14 right 18:03:16 ack bmotik 18:03:17 boris: then use A,B,C 18:03:19 bijan: OK 18:03:27 ack uli 18:03:28 zakim, unmute me 18:03:28 Disagree with A,B,C! 18:03:29 uli was not muted, uli 18:03:44 uli: a little bit of mnemonic is useful 18:03:49 +1 18:03:58 zakim, mute me 18:03:58 uli should now be muted 18:04:22 I wouldn't select A, B, C, obviously. THe current names are better! 18:04:35 A=[A]ssertionbox, B = data[B]ase, C = [C]lasses 18:04:41 alanr: think about this during the week and a proposal may show up for next week 18:04:44 For EL and R, I don't see what is wrong with EL and R 18:05:01 Topic: General Discussion 18:05:15 List of normative datatypes 18:05:30 http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/issues/126 18:05:49 q+ 18:06:04 boris: the current list of datatypes includes lots of XML schema datatypes, some of which are problematics 18:06:12 boris: Jeremy had a paper on this 18:06:14 -MartinD 18:06:22 MartinD has left #OWL 18:06:43 boris: decimal datatype not useful - no division - rational better 18:07:15 boris: float and double are even worse - finite but huge, with bad mathematical properties 18:07:34 boris: these could end up with strange consequences 18:07:35 q+ to ask whether if we don't use these in class expressions, could we leave them for annotations 18:07:49 boris: Jeremy points out that operations are not associative on these 18:08:03 boris: let's use instead rational and/or real 18:08:31 boris: date datatypes have some problems 18:09:09 boris: pattern facet can be applied to numbers with hard-to-predict results 18:09:24 q? 18:09:27 zakim, unmute me 18:09:27 uli should no longer be muted 18:09:31 boris: these datatypes are in XML schema to handle input and don't match reasoning 18:09:42 uli: I wildly agree with Boris 18:09:48 q+ 18:09:50 uli: RacerPro people also agree 18:09:52 zakim, mute me 18:09:52 uli should now be muted 18:09:56 ack uli 18:09:58 ack alanr 18:09:58 alanr, you wanted to ask whether if we don't use these in class expressions, could we leave them for annotations 18:10:13 alanr: what about using them in annotations? 18:10:14 q+ 18:10:15 q+ 18:10:24 ack msmith 18:10:52 msmith: several different problems, should we split them? 18:11:03 msmith: rational/real is already on the table 18:11:05 msmith: I suggest breaking this into multiple issues, for reals we have ISSUE-87 with proposed resolution http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OWL_Rational 18:11:09 ack pfps 18:11:38 ack bmotik 18:11:50 pfps: input could have odd datatypes, provided they could be mapped to "better" datatypes 18:12:17 q+ to ask if approximating annotation values would mean you wouldn't get back what you put in sometimes. 18:12:21 q? 18:12:33 boris: numerics issues intertwined - if rational and real are included then this solves some of the problems 18:12:56 so what would then be the mandatory types? string, integer, rational, real? something else? (reasoning about quaternions in 3d apps might be cool :)) 18:12:58 boris: against allowing input-only datatype 18:13:18 ack alanr 18:13:18 alanr, you wanted to ask if approximating annotation values would mean you wouldn't get back what you put in sometimes. 18:13:51 alanr: couldn't annotation values just be left alone? 18:14:08 alanr: wouldn't approximating input values lead to roundtripping problems 18:14:12 q+ 18:14:38 alanr: what about OWL accepting experimental data (which will be in some existing format) 18:14:42 music? 18:14:42 cool music 18:14:55 zakim, who is speaking 18:14:55 I don't understand 'who is speaking', IanH 18:14:57 zakim, who is on the phone 18:14:57 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', uli 18:15:00 zakim, who is talking 18:15:00 I don't understand 'who is talking', alanr 18:15:06 zakim, who is talking? 18:15:11 zakim, who is speaking 18:15:11 I don't understand 'who is speaking', alanr 18:15:14 zakim, who is here 18:15:14 uli, you need to end that query with '?' 18:15:18 zakim, who is here? 18:15:18 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, uli, baojie, Zhe, bcuencagrau (muted), IanH (muted), msmith, Achille, m_schnei (muted), bmotik, bijan, Alan_Ruttenberg 18:15:19 Zakim, who is talking? 18:15:21 On IRC I see bijan, m_schnei, Achille, bmotik, IanH, msmith, Zhe, uli, baojie, alanr, bcuencagrau, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, pfps, trackbot 18:15:24 zakim, who's spaming us with music? 18:15:24 IanH, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alan_Ruttenberg (3%), uli (3%), Zhe (44%) 18:15:26 I don't understand your question, bijan. 18:15:32 zakim, mute me 18:15:32 pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bmotik (5%), Alan_Ruttenberg (4%) 18:15:32 its zhe! 18:15:34 uli should now be muted 18:15:37 zakim, mute zhe 18:15:39 Zhe should now be muted 18:15:49 sorry 18:15:51 q? 18:15:51 zakim, unmute zhe 18:15:55 zakim, mute zhe 18:15:59 Zhe should no longer be muted 18:16:00 q? 18:16:01 Zhe should now be muted 18:16:02 zakim, mute me 18:16:07 q? 18:16:11 Zhe was already muted, Zhe 18:16:12 ack bmotik 18:17:06 q+ 18:17:08 boris: input data should be mapped into better datatypes prior to input to OWL 18:17:36 link http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/people/boris.motik/publications/mh08datatypes.pdf is broken 18:17:53 boris: could also allow input that looks like "2.5"^^xsd:float, but this would be translated into the real / rational 2.5 18:17:57 zakim, unmute me 18:17:57 bijan was not muted, bijan 18:17:57 use http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/people/boris.motik/pubs/mh08datatypes.pdf 18:18:06 q? 18:18:09 ack bijan 18:18:12 pfps: that was essentially my proposal 18:18:32 +q 18:18:52 ack bmotik 18:18:59 bijan: can't give up input with double/float/... but ... 18:19:02 q+ 18:19:12 q+ 18:19:34 boris: in most cases nothing bad would happen, but double/float are finite and having a datarange of float is dangerous 18:19:35 ack alanr 18:19:44 boris: for dates even the names are problematic 18:19:55 q+ 18:19:56 bijan: this breaks existing ontologies 18:20:00 boris: OWL 1 only has string and integer 18:20:07 boris: but OWL 1 only had integer and string 18:20:08 q? 18:20:11 one doc says sting & integer, one says everything but duration 18:20:18 bijan: it allowed others and they were used 18:20:30 alanr: more investigation needed 18:20:35 q+ 18:20:53 alanr: my main concern is scientific use of OWL 18:20:54 ack me 18:20:55 ack uli 18:21:11 q- 18:21:31 uli: for numerics - internal space can be larger (input) but input space can be as in XML 18:21:50 uli: could even have xsd:float being internally the same as real 18:22:10 not xsd:float though, really xsd:decimal 18:22:12 ack bmotik 18:22:15 alanr: what about rounding 18:22:30 zakim, mute me 18:22:30 uli should now be muted 18:22:34 cerebra 18:22:47 boris: network inference datatype reasoner did this remapping 18:22:53 q? 18:23:08 s/network inference/cerebra/ 18:23:21 boris: we could just do the remapping internally 18:23:23 q+ to ask if we could have a small writeup of this proposal that we could shop around to interested parties 18:23:34 q+ to react to remapping 18:23:42 computer languages generally have LongFloat libraries, with arbitrary length decimals 18:23:43 boris: rounding would not be a problem (if nothing is done on the value) 18:23:44 ack alanr 18:23:44 alanr, you wanted to ask if we could have a small writeup of this proposal that we could shop around to interested parties 18:24:20 q- 18:24:21 alanr: could we have a writeup or a pointer on the mapping solution 18:24:39 boris: I'll do it 18:24:42 q? 18:24:49 q+ 18:24:55 Zakim, who is on the call? 18:24:55 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, uli (muted), baojie, Zhe (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), IanH (muted), msmith, Achille, m_schnei (muted), bmotik, bijan, Alan_Ruttenberg 18:25:03 zakim, unmute me 18:25:03 Zhe should no longer be muted 18:25:07 ack zhe 18:25:13 Zakim, who is here? 18:25:13 On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, uli (muted), baojie, Zhe, bcuencagrau (muted), IanH (muted), msmith, Achille, m_schnei (muted), bmotik, bijan, Alan_Ruttenberg 18:25:16 On IRC I see bijan, m_schnei, Achille, bmotik, IanH, msmith, Zhe, uli, baojie, alanr, bcuencagrau, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, pfps, trackbot 18:25:42 q? 18:25:58 Topic: Other Business 18:26:03 zakim, mute me 18:26:03 Zhe should now be muted 18:26:03 Subtopic: testing 18:26:09 msmith: I've started by using the WebOnt tests. See http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/User:MikeSmith#WebOnt 18:26:22 ... rather than move them all, I moved one of each test type and am beginning to develop the supporting infrastructure around that 18:26:30 ... there are a few different hierarchies for tests (e.g., type, "species", etc) See http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Category:Test_Case 18:26:55 ... people can base new tests on what's there, but it shouldn't be considered stable yet and you're probably better waiting 18:27:13 q? 18:27:21 alanr: questions? 18:27:38 alanr: Adjourn 18:27:40 bye 18:27:40 -Achille 18:27:41 bye bye 18:27:42 bye 18:27:43 -bmotik 18:27:44 -msmith 18:27:45 -uli 18:27:46 -IanH 18:27:48 -Alan_Ruttenberg 18:27:51 -m_schnei 18:27:53 -Zhe 18:27:55 uli has left #owl 18:28:00 -bcuencagrau 18:28:17 msmith has left #owl 18:28:27 -Peter_Patel-Schneider 18:28:53 -bijan 18:28:54 -baojie 18:28:54 SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended 18:28:56 Attendees were Peter_Patel-Schneider, MartinD, uli, baojie, Zhe, bcuencagrau, bmotik, Alan, IanH, msmith, Achille, m_schnei, bijan, Alan_Ruttenberg 18:58:44 sandro has joined #owl 20:35:26 Zakim has left #owl 22:53:15 sandro has joined #owl 23:44:15 sandro has joined #owl