IRC log of xproc on 2008-06-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:48:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #xproc
14:48:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-irc
14:48:54 [ht]
zakim, this will be xml-proc
14:48:54 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, ht
14:49:01 [ht]
zakim, this will be xproc
14:49:01 [Zakim]
ok, ht; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
14:49:19 [ht]
meeting: XProc telcon
14:49:28 [ht]
Chair: Henry S. Thompson (pro tem)
14:49:35 [ht]
Scribe: Henry S. Thompson
14:49:39 [ht]
ScribeNick: ht
14:49:49 [ht]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/06/12-agenda.html
14:56:23 [PGrosso]
PGrosso has joined #xproc
14:58:17 [ht]
Hey Paul -- good holiday?
14:58:21 [ht]
France?
15:00:01 [Vojtech]
Vojtech has joined #xproc
15:00:08 [PGrosso]
yes and yes
15:00:30 [PGrosso]
[weather could have been better, but the wine and food could not have been.]
15:00:40 [Norm]
Norm has joined #xproc
15:00:43 [ht]
Good good
15:00:49 [ht]
Ah, good Morning Norm
15:00:52 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started
15:00:58 [Norm]
Morning ht
15:01:02 [ht]
zakim, please call ht-781
15:01:03 [Zakim]
+[ArborText]
15:01:04 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
15:01:06 [Zakim]
+Ht
15:01:09 [Norm]
Alas, I'm not going to be able to call in
15:01:12 [Zakim]
+Vojtech
15:01:15 [Norm]
Welcome home, PGrosso
15:01:51 [Norm]
Make what progress you can. It might be worth talking about the PSVI stuff in the editor's draft of a few days ago, if anyone has read it
15:02:19 [ht]
Not me, alas -- I am neck-deep in boxes, recycling bags, burn bags, etc.
15:02:31 [ht]
We're moving office, and I've been in this building for about 15 years
15:02:48 [Norm]
Ah.
15:03:07 [Norm]
No worries
15:03:19 [ht]
Apologies: Richard Tobin, Norm Walsh
15:03:54 [ht]
Present: Paul, Henry, Vojtech
15:04:35 [ht]
Last week's minutes: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/06/05-minutes.html
15:04:56 [ht]
Accepted.
15:05:20 [ht]
Next meeting: 19 June 2008, no regrets known as yet
15:05:49 [ht]
s/no regrets/regrets from Andrew only ones/
15:06:12 [alexmilowski]
alexmilowski has joined #xproc
15:06:44 [MoZ]
MoZ has joined #xproc
15:06:55 [MoZ]
Zakim, what is the code ?
15:06:57 [Zakim]
+alexmilowski
15:07:02 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MoZ
15:07:09 [alexmilowski]
grrr... phone lost its mind...
15:07:10 [Zakim]
-alexmilowski
15:07:31 [ht]
s/Richard/Rui Lopes, Richard/
15:07:43 [ht]
MoZ, are you planning on dialing in?
15:07:45 [Zakim]
+??P38
15:08:00 [ht]
zakim, ? is MoZ
15:08:00 [Zakim]
+MoZ; got it
15:08:20 [MoZ]
Zakim, ??P38 is me
15:08:20 [Zakim]
I already had ??P38 as MoZ, MoZ
15:08:27 [alexmilowski]
time for a new office phone...
15:08:35 [Zakim]
+alexmilowski
15:09:07 [ht]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008May/0040.html
15:11:01 [ht]
MZ: Features suggested by Alessandro's suggestions based on Haskell:
15:11:24 [ht]
... p:is-empty is covered by limit attr on p:count
15:11:43 [ht]
... p:pack has been added
15:12:20 [ht]
... split a sequence up until the first match of some pattern
15:13:07 [ht]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc/#c.split-sequence
15:16:39 [ht]
HT: Sounds straightforward
15:16:46 [ht]
... anyone see any difficulties?
15:17:07 [ht]
MZ: This gives us functionality for dealing with sequences which it's difficult, if not impossible, to get any other way
15:17:17 [ht]
HT: Better name than 'stop-test-after-first-false' ?
15:19:37 [ht]
... We get the initial subsequence which matches
15:19:46 [ht]
AM: I get it
15:20:05 [ht]
HT: How about 'initial-only'
15:20:55 [ht]
AM: It's going to be opaque, people will have to look it up to understand it
15:21:30 [ht]
RESOLVED: Add an 'initial-only' attribute to p:split-sequence, a boolean
15:21:41 [ht]
ACTION: Alex Milowski to add an 'initial-only' attribute to p:split-sequence, a boolean
15:22:17 [ht]
Topic: Serialization question
15:22:29 [ht]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jun/0008.html
15:22:59 [ht]
AM: The origin of the impl-defined for the defaults for unspec'd serialization options comes from the QT Serialization spec.
15:25:41 [ht]
MZ: That's not what I was concerned about, rather that I read the spec. in 5.6 as allowing _other_ attributes which are not specified in the spec.
15:25:55 [ht]
HT: Oops, this section and 7.3 need to be cross-referenced
15:26:59 [ht]
s/and 7.3 need to be cross-referenced/needs to be cross-referenced from 7.3/
15:27:43 [ht]
AM, MZ: Discuss what 'unspecified' means here
15:33:52 [ht]
HT: I think that the intent was that 'unspecified' refers to _options_ which are missing for a particular step
15:34:06 [ht]
AM: Right
15:34:09 [ht]
MZ: Yes
15:34:49 [ht]
HT: But, alas, the Serialization step does not say that defaults are impl-defined
15:37:17 [ht]
HT: Propose to delete the "default value" sentence from 5.3
15:38:01 [ht]
RESOLVED: delete the "default value" sentence from 5.3
15:38:29 [ht]
s/5.3/5.6/
15:38:33 [ht]
s/5.3/5.6/
15:38:50 [ht]
HT: Propose to amend the reference to 7.3 in 5.6 to read as follows:
15:39:42 [ht]
The semantics and defaulting behaviour of the attributes on a p:serialization are as described for the corresponding options as described in Section 7.3, “Serialization Options”.
15:40:35 [ht]
s/as described in//
15:41:16 [Zakim]
-alexmilowski
15:41:19 [alexmilowski]
phone lost its mind
15:41:22 [alexmilowski]
...again
15:42:05 [Zakim]
+alexmilowski
15:42:11 [ht]
RESOLVED: Amend the reference to 7.3 in 5.6 to read as follows: "The semantics and defaulting behaviour of the attributes on a p:serialization are as described for the corresponding options in Section 7.3, “Serialization Options”."
15:45:33 [ht]
ACTION: Alex Milowski to draft a Note to add to 7.3 explaining that we don't give simple defaults, behaviour wrt missing options is complex and you have to read [Serialization] to find out.
15:46:59 [ht]
ACTION: Alex Milowski to add an error to 7.3 to cover all other parameter-related Serialization errors
15:51:30 [ht]
HT: I am opposed, it's a new feature, and it can be easily fitted into the existing spec. as an impl-defined serialization method
15:52:00 [ht]
AM: I'm opposed also, we should wait for Serialization spec. to provide for this, so we don't find ourselves isolated when they do
15:53:40 [ht]
[Oops, Scribe needs to add, before HT above, MZ: My email also proposes adding support for c14n to serialisation]
15:54:19 [ht]
MZ: So, do you mean there would have to be two new methods, x:c14n-with-comments and x:c14n-without-comments
15:54:57 [ht]
HT: No, I think you would have new options to go with impl-defined x:c14n method
15:56:00 [ht]
AM: What happens when Serialization _does_ add support for c14n -- do those attributes/options move from prefixed to unprefixed?
15:56:18 [ht]
HT: MSM would say "we should say 'Serialization or its successors'"
15:57:40 [Zakim]
-PGrosso
15:57:41 [Zakim]
-MoZ
15:57:41 [Zakim]
-Vojtech
15:57:43 [Zakim]
-alexmilowski
15:57:58 [PGrosso]
PGrosso has left #xproc
15:58:26 [ht]
AM: The problem is that it's not hard to allow for new serialization _options_, when there's a new Serialization spec., but adding _attributes_ in no namespace to p:serialization is not allowed
15:58:45 [ht]
... Maybe we should provide for this ahead of time, with a specific namespace.
15:59:06 [ht]
HT: We're out of time, AM please start an email thread on your idea, we'll pick it up next week
15:59:11 [ht]
Adjourned
15:59:19 [Zakim]
-Ht
15:59:20 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
15:59:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ht, PGrosso, Vojtech, alexmilowski, MoZ
15:59:31 [ht]
RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
15:59:41 [ht]
zakim, bye
15:59:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #xproc
15:59:47 [ht]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:59:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-minutes.html ht
15:59:54 [ht]
RRSAgent, bye
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-actions.rdf :
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alex Milowski to add an 'initial-only' attribute to p:split-sequence, a boolean [1]
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-irc#T15-21-41
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alex Milowski to draft a Note to add to 7.3 explaining that we don't give simple defaults, behaviour wrt missing options is complex and you have to read [Serialization] to find out. [2]
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-irc#T15-45-33
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alex Milowski to add an error to 7.3 to cover all other parameter-related Serialization errors [3]
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-xproc-irc#T15-46-59