IRC log of webapps on 2008-06-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:15:16 [aroben_]
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00:39:29 [MikeSmith]
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03:46:08 [Hixie]
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03:51:35 [Hixie]
any chance we can merge http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/ into http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/ ?
03:59:11 [shepazu]
yes, I think that's possible
03:59:28 [shepazu]
question is, what to also do with the WAF tracker?
03:59:57 [shepazu]
do we want to move them over with exactly the same issue/action numbers, or is the content alone enough?
04:21:09 [Hixie]
no idea
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10:26:39 [ArtB]
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11:00:16 [ArtB]
ArtB has changed the topic to: Widgets Voice Conference starts at 13:00 Paris time on June 12
11:00:29 [Zakim]
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11:00:59 [ArtB]
zakim, this will be webapps
11:00:59 [Zakim]
ok, ArtB; I see IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM scheduled to start now
11:01:23 [ArtB]
hmmm; Marcos, where art thou?
11:03:01 [Zakim]
IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM has now started
11:03:08 [marcos_]
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11:03:10 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aaaa
11:03:10 [Zakim]
+??P8
11:03:34 [Zakim]
+Art_Barstow
11:03:51 [arve]
having trouble calling in
11:03:51 [ArtB]
zakim, aaaa is Marcos
11:03:51 [Zakim]
+Marcos; got it
11:04:01 [Zakim]
+Arve
11:04:02 [ArtB]
zakim, ??P8 is Claudio
11:04:02 [Zakim]
+Claudio; got it
11:05:20 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, bye
11:05:20 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/11-webapps-actions.rdf :
11:05:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shepazu Continue discussion on list regarding event handler attributes and should they be specified in DOM L3 Events [1]
11:05:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/11-webapps-irc#T19-04-47
11:05:20 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Travis write the list about Error vs DOMException [2]
11:05:20 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/11-webapps-irc#T19-20-39
11:05:39 [RRSAgent]
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11:05:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-webapps-irc
11:05:55 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:06:13 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Arve, Claudio, Marcos
11:06:16 [ArtB]
Chair: Art
11:06:20 [ArtB]
ScribeNick: ArtB
11:06:31 [ArtB]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webapps/2008AprJun/0003.html
11:06:37 [ArtB]
Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
11:06:41 [ArtB]
Date: 12 June 2008
11:07:31 [ArtB]
Topic: Agenda Review
11:07:39 [ArtB]
AB: any change requests?
11:07:41 [ArtB]
[None]
11:07:48 [ArtB]
Topic: Announcements
11:08:07 [ArtB]
AB: transition to WebApps WG is complete
11:08:18 [ArtB]
MC: I'm glad this finally happened!
11:08:40 [ArtB]
AB: any concerns or issues?
11:08:51 [ArtB]
MC: I'm a bit concerned about the volume of email
11:09:04 [ArtB]
... perhaps we should split up the specs into different mail lists
11:09:39 [ArtB]
ABe: if you were subscribed to both waf and webapi the change should be zero
11:09:53 [ArtB]
MC: agree but I wasn't subscribed to webapi
11:10:05 [ArtB]
AB: agree with Marcos concern
11:10:17 [ArtB]
... but would prefer to wait and see
11:10:22 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, code?
11:10:22 [Zakim]
the conference code is 9231 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MikeSmith
11:10:31 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
11:10:36 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, IP is me
11:10:36 [Zakim]
sorry, MikeSmith, I do not recognize a party named 'IP'
11:10:42 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
11:10:42 [Zakim]
+MikeSmith; got it
11:10:42 [ArtB]
Present+ Mike
11:11:40 [ArtB]
MS: I also have the same concern
11:11:58 [ArtB]
... agree we should take a wait and see for now
11:12:12 [ArtB]
... an extreme is a list per spec
11:12:31 [ArtB]
... but that creates a different set of probs
11:13:07 [claudio]
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11:13:31 [ArtB]
CV: I also agree with the mail list issue
11:14:00 [ArtB]
... we are especially interested in Widgets and we do not want to see that disrupted
11:14:29 [ArtB]
MS: I can take an action to monitor the lists for one month and then make a recommendation
11:14:59 [ArtB]
ACTION: Smith monitor the webapps mail list for one month and then make a recommendation about the number of lists to use
11:14:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3 - Monitor the webapps mail list for one month and then make a recommendation about the number of lists to use [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2008-06-19].
11:16:37 [MikeSmith]
ACTION-3 due July 12
11:16:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-3 Monitor the webapps mail list for one month and then make a recommendation about the number of lists to use due date now July 12
11:16:54 [ArtB]
AB: make sure everyone joins the new WG
11:17:30 [Zakim]
-Marcos
11:17:37 [ArtB]
MC: what is your status?
11:17:53 [ArtB]
s/MC: what/AB: what/
11:18:11 [ArtB]
MC: I am working with Mike to become an Invited Expert
11:18:27 [ArtB]
AB: I'd be happy to provide input to support this; just let me know
11:18:46 [ArtB]
MS: I don't anticipate any probs
11:19:02 [Zakim]
+Marcos
11:19:08 [ArtB]
Topic: Requirements Last Call
11:19:34 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos would like to discuss the Requirements Last Call
11:19:48 [ArtB]
MC: the document has mostly settled down
11:19:52 [ArtB]
... few changes recently
11:20:04 [ArtB]
... we've had plenty of internal review
11:20:16 [ArtB]
... want to get more Public review
11:20:28 [ArtB]
AB: any comments?
11:20:38 [ArtB]
ABe: I think that would be the right move
11:21:10 [ArtB]
CV: I agree the doc is ready for LC
11:21:29 [ArtB]
MS: I support requesting LC
11:22:01 [ArtB]
AB: I have a few editorial requests but I support moving to LC
11:22:51 [ArtB]
... first, I want to say I think this document has been an excellent way for us to communicate the scope and what we are trying to do.
11:23:15 [ArtB]
... the Status of the Doc needs to reflect the change to WebApps WG
11:23:39 [ArtB]
MC: yes, I'll make those changes
11:23:47 [marcos_]
ACTION: Marcos to update the Requirements document to reflect WebApps WG
11:23:47 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Marcos
11:23:53 [marcos_]
ACTION: Caceres to update the Requirements document to reflect WebApps WG
11:23:53 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Caceres
11:23:54 [ArtB]
AB: there is a related change that needs to be made in Section 2
11:23:59 [marcos_]
Ah, not a member yet
11:24:01 [marcos_]
:P
11:24:35 [ArtB]
AB: one question about paragraph #2 in Section 2
11:24:53 [ArtB]
... can you clarify what is being said
11:25:23 [ArtB]
... <http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/#conformance>
11:26:39 [ArtB]
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11:27:48 [ArtB]
MC: this is about an input from some company
11:28:15 [ArtB]
... for example an input on security model should be based on one or more of the requirements
11:29:12 [ArtB]
AB: I would prefer to delete the second sentence
11:29:20 [ArtB]
AB: any other opinions?
11:30:08 [ArtB]
AB: based on Marcos' description, I can live with this
11:30:26 [ArtB]
MC: OK
11:32:27 [ArtB]
CV: I think this sentence says Widgets can be re-specified but if they are, they should reflect these requirements
11:33:11 [ArtB]
AB: the doc used to say something like "not all of these reqs will necessarily be specified by the W3C". Is this disclaimer still in there?
11:33:20 [ArtB]
MC: yes, by the use of Keywords
11:33:54 [ArtB]
MC: I will add a comment
11:34:38 [ArtB]
CV: regarding the Abstract, we are a bit weak regarding device capabilities
11:34:54 [ArtB]
... req #29 is the only related requirement
11:35:19 [ArtB]
MC: good point
11:35:35 [ArtB]
AB: what do you think we should do?
11:35:43 [ArtB]
... or was this more of an observation?
11:35:57 [ArtB]
CV: we could add a pointer to the UWA WG's work
11:36:21 [ArtB]
MC: but we don't want create any device API specs
11:37:12 [ArtB]
AB: does the Rational of req 29 address your concern?
11:38:13 [ArtB]
CV: yes, now that I read the Rational I think that addresses the issue
11:38:36 [ArtB]
MC: and I can remove some of the device-specific use cases/examples from the Abstract
11:39:23 [ArtB]
MC: I prefer to leave the text as is
11:40:51 [ArtB]
ABe: the reality is widgets will have to deal with vendor-specific and device-specifc APIs
11:41:01 [ArtB]
... but I don't think doing such is in our scope
11:41:15 [ArtB]
... it could be some abstract bindings would be helpful
11:41:47 [ArtB]
MC: need a generic means to tie into device and vendor specific APIs
11:42:31 [ArtB]
ABe: we could then refer to them as "3rd-party" APIs
11:42:47 [ArtB]
AB: are you going to do a major rework of #29?
11:42:50 [ArtB]
MC: yes
11:45:00 [ArtB]
AB: I would like to give the WG a 1-week review period
11:45:26 [ArtB]
... if we want to target June 19 as the Decision Day, we would need a revised version within the next day or so
11:45:34 [ArtB]
... Marcos, is that doable?
11:45:36 [ArtB]
MC: yes
11:46:39 [ArtB]
AB: working assumption: Marcos will make his changes and then notify the WG that we want to make a decsion on June 19 regarding LC so WG members should submit any comments by June 18 at the latest
11:46:53 [ArtB]
AB: any objections?
11:47:04 [ArtB]
[None]
11:47:51 [ArtB]
Topic: User Agent Conformance
11:48:02 [ArtB]
AB: comments from FT's Fabrice
11:48:21 [ArtB]
MC: I've answered that
11:48:27 [ArtB]
Topic: Turin F2F
11:49:09 [ArtB]
CV: I will miss the next couple of calls
11:49:17 [ArtB]
... all of the arrangements are made
11:50:12 [ArtB]
... in mid to late July I will send out some hotel info
11:50:31 [ArtB]
AB: the hotel info would be good to get earlier
11:50:51 [ArtB]
ABe: yes, I also would like to get the hotel info earlier
11:51:07 [ArtB]
CV: Turin usually is not that busy in August
11:51:56 [ArtB]
CV: I will try to send something by the end of today
11:52:47 [ArtB]
AB: you have some comments on the format?
11:53:06 [ArtB]
MC: want to be in a position to close issues
11:53:37 [ArtB]
... so we can be in a position to get to LC in October
11:53:53 [ArtB]
ABe: could be helpful to spit into groups for the editorial type stuff
11:54:14 [ArtB]
MC: in small groups we could also do some implementations
11:54:19 [ArtB]
... I've found that useful
11:54:54 [ArtB]
AB: agree, but not sure the people that attend the meeting have the right skill set for implementations
11:55:26 [ArtB]
s/the people/that some of the people/
11:55:58 [ArtB]
ABe: we could set up an implemenation area on the W3C's CVS repository
11:56:08 [ArtB]
CV: we are trying to implement something
11:56:28 [ArtB]
... perhaps we can get those people involved
11:56:46 [ArtB]
MC: we could have some people doing Editorial work and some doing Impl work
11:57:09 [ArtB]
MC: I can do some research on how to most effectively make use of people's time
11:57:26 [ArtB]
... I thought Hixie's un-conf approach for HTML went well
11:57:37 [ArtB]
... (at the TPAC in November 2007)
11:58:51 [ArtB]
ACTION: Barstow work with Marcos et al. on the Turin agenda that maximizes the use of people's time
11:58:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-4 - Work with Marcos et al. on the Turin agenda that maximizes the use of people's time [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-06-19].
11:59:25 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
11:59:26 [Zakim]
-Arve
11:59:26 [Zakim]
-Claudio
11:59:27 [Zakim]
-Marcos
11:59:34 [Zakim]
-MikeSmith
11:59:35 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
11:59:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
11:59:36 [Zakim]
IA_WebApps(Widgets)7:00AM has ended
11:59:37 [Zakim]
Attendees were +39.011.228.aaaa, Art_Barstow, Marcos, Arve, Claudio, MikeSmith
12:01:25 [ArtB]
AB: Meeting adjourned
12:01:31 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
12:01:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
12:02:03 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, bye
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-webapps-actions.rdf :
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Smith monitor the webapps mail list for one month and then make a recommendation about the number of lists to use [1]
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-webapps-irc#T11-14-59
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Marcos to update the Requirements document to reflect WebApps WG [2]
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-webapps-irc#T11-23-47
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Caceres to update the Requirements document to reflect WebApps WG [3]
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-webapps-irc#T11-23-53
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Barstow work with Marcos et al. on the Turin agenda that maximizes the use of people's time [4]
12:02:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-webapps-irc#T11-58-51