IRC log of rif on 2008-06-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:53 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:55:53 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-rif-irc
14:56:01 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:56:01 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:18 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 10-June-2008
14:56:25 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
14:56:40 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jun/0023.html
14:56:52 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: 10 June RIF Telecon Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jun/0023.html
14:57:07 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:57:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:57:23 [ChrisW]
zakim, clear agenda
14:57:24 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:57:29 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
14:57:33 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
14:57:38 [ChrisW]
agenda+ F2F11
14:57:43 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Action Review
14:57:49 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Public Comments
14:57:57 [ChrisW]
agenda+ UCR
14:58:05 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Acknowledgements
14:58:09 [ChrisW]
agenda+ DTB
14:58:14 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
14:58:15 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
14:58:16 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
14:59:35 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:59:42 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
14:59:57 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:27 [Zakim]
+??P1
15:00:31 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:00:37 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:00:37 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:00:51 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Dean, ??P1, ChrisW
15:00:51 [csma]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:00:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Dean, ??P1, ChrisW
15:00:59 [csma]
zakim, ??P1 is me
15:01:01 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:01:14 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:01:29 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
15:01:45 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:01:45 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:01:47 [Zakim]
+josb
15:01:47 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
15:02:15 [sandro]
RRSAgent, pointer?
15:02:15 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-rif-irc#T15-02-15
15:02:24 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:02:26 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:02:43 [ChrisW]
StellaMitchell can you scribe today?
15:02:44 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:02:44 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
15:02:47 [StellaMitchell]
yes
15:02:50 [ChrisW]
thakns
15:02:53 [ChrisW]
Scribe: StellaMitchell
15:03:16 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is here?
15:03:21 [IgorMozetic]
IgorMozetic has joined #rif
15:03:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Dean, csma (muted), ChrisW, josb, Sandro, StellaMitchell
15:03:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see IgorMozetic, AdrianP, josb, StellaMitchell, csma, mdean, RRSAgent, ChrisW, sandro, trackbot, Harold, Zakim
15:03:45 [Zakim]
+AdrianP
15:03:54 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:04:05 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
15:04:50 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:05:26 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:05:29 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/F2F10_Minutes
15:05:37 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:05:46 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: accept F2F10 minutes
15:05:46 [IgorMozetic]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:05:46 [Zakim]
+IgorMozetic; got it
15:05:48 [StellaMitchell]
cw: any objections to approving the f2f10 minutes?
15:05:50 [IgorMozetic]
zakim, mute me
15:05:50 [Zakim]
IgorMozetic should now be muted
15:06:03 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: accept F2F10 minutes
15:06:17 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jun/att-0021/RIF_Telecon_minutes__3-Jun-08.htm
15:06:24 [StellaMitchell]
cw: any objections to approving the minutes from last week's telcon?
15:06:35 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: accept 3-Jun telecon minutes
15:06:44 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: accept 3-Jun telecon minutes
15:07:05 [StellaMitchell]
cw: any agenda ammendments?
15:07:06 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 2
15:07:07 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:07:26 [StellaMitchell]
cw: Adrian, Jos, Mike, any news?
15:07:42 [StellaMitchell]
MikeD: nothing from OWL
15:07:44 [AdrianP]
nothing
15:07:56 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
15:08:01 [StellaMitchell]
cw: sandro, has the owl group discussed our responses?
15:08:03 [Zakim]
+??P52
15:08:06 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: I don't think so
15:08:28 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:08:28 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:08:29 [StellaMitchell]
cw: what about the joint document about something like rif:text ?
15:08:43 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: nothing has happened on thatg
15:09:14 [StellaMitchell]
cw: axel, did you agree to work on this?
15:09:35 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif
15:10:04 [Zakim]
+ +27226aaaa
15:10:18 [StellaMitchell]
axel: I think we were going to get the first working draft out with the current vefrsion of rif: text, and then after that reconcile with owl's treatment
15:10:42 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 3
15:10:42 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "F2F11" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:10:47 [AxelPolleres]
remark: Can the England access number also be made public in the agenda (England +44.117.370.6152), are hteir any other accesss number we haven't got?
15:10:57 [sandro]
ACTION: Axel to work with Jie Bao (of OWL-WG) to put together draft on rif:text/owl:internationalizedText, due 27 June 2008
15:10:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-521 - Work with Jie Bao (of OWL-WG) to put together draft on rif:text/owl:internationalizedText, due 27 June 2008 [on Axel Polleres - due 2008-06-17].
15:11:33 [StellaMitchell]
cw: email last week asking if people could make meeting sept 7-8 in either Boston or New York
15:11:57 [Hassan]
I will not attend either anyway
15:11:59 [StellaMitchell]
cw: does anyone here have a problem with that date?
15:12:00 [josb]
access number of France: +33.4.89.06.34.99
15:12:33 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:12:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AdrianP (muted), IgorMozetic (muted), Gary_Hallmark, Harold, AxelPolleres, Hassan (muted), Mike_Dean, csma (muted), ChrisW, josb, Sandro, StellaMitchell
15:12:40 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
15:12:50 [AxelPolleres]
I definitly can't make that date... other obligations the week 7-11.
15:12:56 [StellaMitchell]
garyh: anyone still interested in late august in portland?
15:13:13 [Hassan]
USA
15:13:28 [Hassan]
yes
15:13:29 [AxelPolleres]
possibly
15:13:30 [StellaMitchell]
cw: late august doesn't work for me
15:13:36 [AxelPolleres]
possibly by phone
15:13:39 [josb]
s/of France/of Zakim in France/
15:13:52 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 4
15:13:52 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Action Review" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:13:59 [StellaMitchell]
cw: axel, could you attend part of the meeting by phone if it were on sept 7-8?
15:14:22 [sandro]
reminder people can use http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my for their own actions
15:14:46 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-519 closed
15:14:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-519 Start work on response to http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Response_to_PPS3 closed
15:15:02 [csma]
I will
15:15:22 [PaulVincent]
PaulVincent has joined #rif
15:15:46 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-518 continued
15:16:01 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-516 continued
15:16:16 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-517 continjued
15:16:24 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-514 dropped
15:17:05 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-515 continued
15:17:26 [AxelPolleres]
Can someone point me to a mail or draft page where owl:{|
15:17:26 [AxelPolleres]
| style="background-color: #80FF80" rowspan="1" colspan="1" |
15:17:26 [AxelPolleres]
Editor's note: Although <tt>rif:iri</tt> is not a datatype, I left conversions from and to <tt>rif:iri</tt>s in the list of cast functions, to cover use cases in the context of RDF where you want to extract a string from an IRI denoting an RDF resource and vice versa.
15:17:26 [AxelPolleres]
See also the use case mentioned in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Mar/0011.html
15:17:27 [AxelPolleres]
|}
15:17:32 [AxelPolleres]
oops.
15:17:34 [AxelPolleres]
sorry
15:17:35 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-512 continued
15:17:42 [csma]
done
15:17:48 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-511 closed
15:17:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-511 Change REMOVE to RETRACT closed
15:17:49 [csma]
ack csma
15:17:58 [AxelPolleres]
Can someone point me to a mail or draft page where owl:internationalizedText is referenced?
15:18:22 [AxelPolleres]
... or to an email.
15:18:26 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-510 pending discussion
15:18:40 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-508 closed
15:18:40 [trackbot]
ACTION-508 Work out policies for pick (refraction, recency, priority, sequential) closed
15:19:24 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-507 continued
15:20:11 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-506 continued
15:20:29 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:20:34 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-505 continued
15:21:09 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-504 closed
15:21:09 [trackbot]
ACTION-504 Add XML 1.0 statement to BLD closed
15:21:18 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-503 closed
15:21:18 [trackbot]
ACTION-503 Update BNF with base directive for relative IRI handling in PS closed
15:21:51 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-502 continued
15:22:27 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-501 closed
15:22:27 [trackbot]
ACTION-501 Put text about "metadata should survive roundtripping out of RIF and back again" in Conformance section of BLD closed
15:23:07 [StellaMitchell]
harold: mk and I both made many updates but we weren't coordinating, so used different terminology
15:23:19 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-499 pending discussion
15:23:41 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-497 continued
15:23:52 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-496 closed
15:23:52 [trackbot]
ACTION-496 Update all examples for Presentation Syntax and XML syntax for curies and entities. Also add Prefix to presentation syntax. closed
15:23:56 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unute me
15:23:57 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unute me', AdrianP
15:24:37 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
15:24:37 [Zakim]
AdrianP should no longer be muted
15:24:50 [AdrianP]
Yes, action-496 is done
15:25:22 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-495 closed
15:25:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-495 Respond to Dan2 (about well-formedness) closed
15:25:55 [StellaMitchell]
csma: where in the document is xml syntax for curies and entities defined?
15:26:12 [StellaMitchell]
harold: (points to an example 6)
15:26:47 [StellaMitchell]
cw: presentation syntax should not have curies in them
15:26:54 [Hassan]
Are the contents of the IRI declarations for PS complete and fine?
15:26:55 [AdrianP]
sorry I ment action 495 is done
15:26:56 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:26:56 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
15:27:01 [StellaMitchell]
harold: I used prefixes
15:27:58 [StellaMitchell]
jos: maybe we should mention that entities are optional, and also in example 6 we should expand one of the entities
15:28:03 [sandro]
+1 jos, have one of the prefixes not turn into an entity, to show the correspondance is optional
15:28:03 [StellaMitchell]
harold: ok, will make that change
15:28:12 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
15:28:12 [Zakim]
AdrianP should no longer be muted
15:28:28 [Hassan]
q+
15:28:55 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:28:55 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
15:28:56 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION 494 is complete
15:28:56 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - 494
15:29:07 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-493 is complete
15:29:18 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-492 continued
15:29:19 [Hassan]
q-
15:29:25 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-490 complete
15:29:50 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-489 complete
15:30:46 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-486 complete
15:31:02 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-488 complete
15:31:14 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-487 continued
15:32:31 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/issues/61
15:33:03 [StellaMitchell]
cw: editor's note (in action-487 should link to above issue)
15:33:08 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-485 complete
15:33:15 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-483 complete
15:33:48 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-482 continued
15:34:51 [StellaMitchell]
cw: re: action-482 we discussed that dtb would be a comprehensive list of all data types, and when defining a dialect you would choose from those
15:35:01 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-454 complete
15:35:09 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-475 continued
15:35:41 [StellaMitchell]
ACTION-152 continued
15:36:31 [StellaMitchell]
cw: a number of resolutions (from f2f10) didn't have actions associated with them, so I want to confirm that they are done
15:36:46 [StellaMitchell]
cw: axel, subtypes?
15:37:09 [StellaMitchell]
axel: yes, I made the update in dtb
15:37:44 [StellaMitchell]
harold: bld doesn't require any update for this item
15:38:40 [StellaMitchell]
cw: my understanding that dtb would be a menu of data types and builtins, and so bld would have to add a paragraph saying which of those from dtb that bld uses
15:39:43 [StellaMitchell]
harold: ok, I understand
15:40:24 [StellaMitchell]
cw: and so the new section needs an "at risk" comment on rif:text
15:40:47 [sandro]
ACTION: Harold to ask Michael to update BLD with the DTB references, including "at risk" for rif:text
15:40:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-522 - Ask Michael to update BLD with the DTB references, including \"at risk\" for rif:text [on Harold Boley - due 2008-06-17].
15:41:40 [StellaMitchell]
cw: another resultion was that we would add >= <=, etc to dtb
15:41:57 [StellaMitchell]
!=
15:42:02 [StellaMitchell]
axel: this is done
15:42:15 [Zakim]
-IgorMozetic
15:42:33 [StellaMitchell]
axel: these were added for each data type
15:43:04 [StellaMitchell]
cw: does the bld just need to list data types and that implies that it supports all builtins for that data types?
15:43:08 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: yes, I think so
15:43:28 [StellaMitchell]
cw: so adding those predicates wouldn't impact the bld text
15:44:01 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:44:01 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:45:06 [StellaMitchell]
cw: another resultion was to remove symbol space ids in rif
15:45:28 [StellaMitchell]
s/resultion/resolution/
15:46:09 [StellaMitchell]
jos: it means symbol space ids must be iris
15:46:15 [StellaMitchell]
axel: this is done
15:46:40 [ChrisW]
modify Presentation Syntax to include "Const ::= STRING" (allowing "chat" as short for "chat"^^xs:string).
15:47:54 [StellaMitchell]
axel: harold, you can just copy updagted const grammar from dtb
15:48:05 [josb]
very good!
15:48:09 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:48:09 [Zakim]
AdrianP was already muted, AdrianP
15:48:42 [StellaMitchell]
cw: also, a resolution about syntax for rif:local
15:49:00 [StellaMitchell]
axel: yes, these updates are made
15:49:26 [StellaMitchell]
cw: we had a resultion do add xsd: double
15:49:31 [StellaMitchell]
axel: done
15:49:54 [StellaMitchell]
cw: there was a resolution on xml syntax for ordered=yes
15:49:56 [StellaMitchell]
harold: done
15:50:20 [StellaMitchell]
cw: resolution to point people to dublin core for metadata properties
15:50:23 [StellaMitchell]
harold: done
15:50:35 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:50:35 [Zakim]
I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
15:50:36 [StellaMitchell]
cw: any other discussion on actions?
15:50:37 [Zakim]
1. Admin [from ChrisW]
15:50:37 [Zakim]
2. Liason [from ChrisW]
15:50:38 [Zakim]
3. F2F11 [from ChrisW]
15:50:38 [Zakim]
4. Action Review [from ChrisW]
15:50:39 [Zakim]
5. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
15:50:39 [Zakim]
6. UCR [from ChrisW]
15:50:41 [Zakim]
7. Acknowledgements [from ChrisW]
15:50:42 [Zakim]
8. DTB [from ChrisW]
15:50:42 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 5
15:50:44 [Zakim]
9. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:50:46 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Public Comments" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:51:06 [StellaMitchell]
cw: this is about the response to peter's response
15:51:06 [csma]
ack csma
15:51:54 [StellaMitchell]
cw: this is the only outstanding one
15:52:10 [StellaMitchell]
cw: jos, do you want to discuss your response to peter here?
15:52:12 [StellaMitchell]
jos: no
15:52:26 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:52:26 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:52:28 [josb]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2008Jun/0004.html
15:52:54 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 6
15:52:54 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "UCR" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:52:56 [StellaMitchell]
jos: dan c responded to my response, and said that it addressed his concerns (although he found it counter intuitive)
15:53:08 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
15:53:08 [Zakim]
AdrianP should no longer be muted
15:53:16 [AdrianP]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR#Requirements
15:53:33 [AdrianP]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR#OWL_data
15:53:44 [StellaMitchell]
adrian: last telcon we discussed requirements and stopped at the owl data requirement
15:54:07 [StellaMitchell]
cw: should we continue through the rest of the list?
15:54:10 [StellaMitchell]
adrian: yes
15:54:29 [StellaMitchell]
cw: we were a little stalled on coverage (5.1.6) and there was some discussion on the mailing list
15:55:08 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: no one objected to the last text that I proposed
15:55:16 [AdrianP]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR#Rule_language_coverage
15:56:33 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: that section was updated since last week, but it is more verbose than we need
15:57:33 [StellaMitchell]
cw: it needs to be reworded using standard language of requirements
15:57:59 [sandro]
The RIF dialect targetting a group of similar rule languages must support, at a minimum, interchange of rules using all the features which are common to all the major rule languages in that group.
15:58:19 [AdrianP]
ok sound good and compact
15:58:22 [sandro]
(as full replacement for 5.1.6)
15:58:37 [StellaMitchell]
cw: I'd change "must" to "should"
15:59:23 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: all the other requirements use must, except for the implementability requirement
15:59:40 [StellaMitchell]
cw: but this (5.1.6) is a fuzzy requirement
16:00:19 [sandro]
"must"
16:00:35 [ChrisW]
Straw poll: prefer must/should in 5.1.6
16:00:38 [sandro]
strawpoll: must vs should on that 5.1.6 text
16:00:40 [csma]
0
16:00:40 [Hassan]
0
16:00:46 [AdrianP]
+1 for must
16:00:51 [josb]
don't care
16:00:54 [AxelPolleres]
should
16:00:57 [csma]
+/- must/should
16:01:01 [Harold]
+0.8 for must
16:01:06 [mdean]
0
16:01:13 [csma]
or could be should/must
16:01:17 [AxelPolleres]
+1 for mould
16:01:18 [Hassan]
+1 for mould
16:01:19 [AdrianP]
the general requirements should describe fundamental properties
16:01:27 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
16:01:27 [ChrisW]
not mould, mold
16:02:12 [ChrisW]
RIF must cover OWL knowledge bases as data where compatible with RIF semantics.
16:02:26 [AxelPolleres]
These people from the US have this tendency to drop "u"s from English words...
16:02:32 [StellaMitchell]
requirement 5.2.7 looks fine
16:02:50 [StellaMitchell]
s/requirement/cw:requirement/
16:02:57 [AdrianP]
RIF must cover RDF triples as data where compatible with RIF semantics.
16:03:06 [ChrisW]
RIF must cover RDF triples as data where compatible with Phase 1 semantics.
16:03:31 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: reword 5.2.8 to "RIF semantics"
16:03:46 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: reword 5.2.8 to "RIF semantics"
16:04:15 [StellaMitchell]
cw: requirement 5.2.9
16:04:51 [sandro]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jun/0006.html
16:05:22 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: I commented on this requirement in the above email - I don't know what this requirement means
16:05:49 [sandro]
The semantics of a RIF document must be uniquely determined from the contents of the document, without out-of-band data.
16:06:19 [sandro]
The semantics of a RIF document must be uniquely determined by the content of the document, without out-of-band data.
16:06:24 [AxelPolleres]
makes sense
16:06:27 [Harold]
Re 5.2.9: The XML Schema's location will differentiate between dialects.
16:06:44 [sandro]
PROPOSED: replace 5.2.9 with re-wording: "The semantics of a RIF document must be uniquely determined by the content of the document, without out-of-band data."
16:06:50 [AxelPolleres]
+1
16:06:52 [sandro]
+1
16:06:56 [Hassan]
+1
16:06:56 [ChrisW]
+1
16:06:59 [AdrianP]
+1
16:07:06 [sandro]
RESOLVED: replace 5.2.9 with re-wording: "The semantics of a RIF document must be uniquely determined by the content of the document, without out-of-band data."
16:07:21 [StellaMitchell]
cw: requirement 5.2.10 - fine
16:07:39 [StellaMitchell]
cw; requirement 5.2.11 - fine
16:07:52 [StellaMitchell]
cw: requirement 5.2.12
16:08:02 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: change 'should' to 'must'
16:08:08 [Harold]
+1
16:08:09 [sandro]
PROPOSED: in 5.2.12 change to "must" support ability to merge rule sets
16:08:10 [sandro]
+1
16:08:11 [Hassan]
+1
16:08:12 [AdrianP]
+1
16:08:13 [ChrisW]
+1
16:08:17 [csma]
ack csma
16:08:47 [sandro]
RESOLVED: in 5.2.12 change to "must" support ability to merge rule sets
16:08:50 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:08:50 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:09:13 [sandro]
PROPOSED 5.2.13 change "will" to "must"
16:09:16 [sandro]
PROPOSED: 5.2.13 change "will" to "must"
16:09:46 [Harold]
In BLD rule sets are called groups.
16:10:05 [AdrianP]
+1
16:10:06 [sandro]
PROPOSED: 5.2.13 change "will" to "must" & remove parenthetical comment
16:10:06 [Harold]
groups can be identified with our new (* ... *) syntax.
16:10:07 [sandro]
+1
16:10:11 [AdrianP]
+1
16:10:16 [Hassan]
+1
16:10:16 [Harold]
+1
16:10:18 [ChrisW]
+1
16:10:21 [sandro]
RESOLVED: 5.2.13 change "will" to "must" & remove parenthetical comment
16:10:56 [sandro]
RESOLVED: 5.2.13 change "will" to "must" & remove parenthetical comment: RIF must support the identification of rule sets.
16:11:06 [StellaMitchell]
cw: 5.3.1
16:11:09 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:11:23 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: we don't clarify what we mean by "objective"
16:11:49 [sandro]
"Objectives" to "Anticipated Future Requirements"
16:11:50 [sandro]
?
16:12:07 [csma]
ack csma
16:12:12 [sandro]
PROPOSED: drop 5.3 Objectives
16:12:18 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
16:12:54 [StellaMitchell]
harold: can we say more about the 2 use cases that motivated it?
16:12:58 [Hassan]
+1 on dropping this - "future requirement" means nothing as far as we are concerned
16:13:42 [StellaMitchell]
csma: frame or atom could point directly to a part of an xml document based on an xml schema or dtb
16:14:03 [Harold]
DTB could have an XML-'open' data type: it would only need to be well-formed, not valide wrt our XSD -- supported by XSD.
16:14:13 [StellaMitchell]
...using xml schema as data models in rif documents we can use that capability to use an xml document as data
16:14:17 [csma]
s/dtb/DTD/
16:14:41 [StellaMitchell]
cw: does anyone object to dropping this reqjuirement?
16:16:03 [Harold]
s/DTB could have an XML-'open' data type: it would only need to be well-formed, not valide wrt our XSD -- supported by XSD./DTB could have an XML-'open' data type: it would only need to be well-formed, not valid wrt our XSD -- such 'any' types are supported by XSD./
16:17:37 [StellaMitchell]
adrian, csma: I would like to keep this requirement
16:18:49 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: why are we choosing to call out this one of many possible future requirements?
16:18:55 [Harold]
"5.3.1 XML data" is there because of many XML-based appls, incl. Web Services.
16:19:28 [StellaMitchell]
csma: I think it's in a separate section because sandro said it's a phase 2 requirement
16:19:48 [StellaMitchell]
sandro: one requirement for last call is that you met all your requirements
16:20:00 [StellaMitchell]
cw: change 'must' to 'should'?
16:20:35 [StellaMitchell]
cw: do you have reasonable expectation that this req would be met by prd?
16:20:38 [StellaMitchell]
csma: yes
16:20:40 [Harold]
Yes, PRD could have such an XML-'open' data type.
16:20:46 [AdrianP]
The implementation of this requirement in the schema is very easy
16:21:04 [StellaMitchell]
cw: so, I think it can be a regular requirment with 'must' changed to 'should'
16:21:23 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Maybe 5.3.1 be 5.2.14 and make it a SHOULD instead of MUST.
16:21:38 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Move 5.3.1 be 5.2.14 and make it a SHOULD instead of MUST. (support XML as data)
16:21:45 [sandro]
+0
16:21:48 [csma]
+0.5
16:21:49 [ChrisW]
+1
16:21:51 [AdrianP]
+1
16:21:52 [josb]
0
16:21:56 [Hassan]
+0
16:21:58 [GaryHallmark]
+1
16:22:03 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Move 5.3.1 be 5.2.14 and make it a SHOULD instead of MUST. (support XML as data)
16:22:13 [Harold]
+1
16:22:44 [csma]
action: adrianP to update UCR to reflect the above resolutions
16:22:44 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - adrianP
16:23:03 [sandro]
ACTION: Adrian to update UCR to reflect resolutions in today's meeting (2008-06-10)
16:23:03 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Adrian
16:23:03 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. agiurca, apaschke)
16:23:15 [sandro]
ACTION: apaschke to update UCR to reflect resolutions in today's meeting (2008-06-10)
16:23:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-523 - Update UCR to reflect resolutions in today's meeting (2008-06-10) [on Adrian Paschke - due 2008-06-17].
16:23:24 [StellaMitchell]
cw: adrian, anything else to discuss on ucr?
16:24:01 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
16:24:01 [Zakim]
I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
16:24:02 [Zakim]
1. Admin [from ChrisW]
16:24:02 [Zakim]
2. Liason [from ChrisW]
16:24:03 [Zakim]
3. F2F11 [from ChrisW]
16:24:03 [Zakim]
4. Action Review [from ChrisW]
16:24:04 [Zakim]
5. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
16:24:04 [Zakim]
6. UCR [from ChrisW]
16:24:06 [Zakim]
7. Acknowledgements [from ChrisW]
16:24:08 [Zakim]
8. DTB [from ChrisW]
16:24:10 [Zakim]
9. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:24:10 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 7
16:24:12 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Acknowledgements" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:24:42 [StellaMitchell]
cw: all the documents need an acknowlegement section
16:25:17 [GaryHallmark]
Christian, I see XML data as a tree of frames with constraints on its structure which could be achieved in theory by embedding XML (Schema) axioms into RIF
16:25:25 [StellaMitchell]
cw: it is customary to list by name all members of working group by name, but this group is large with many inactive members
16:25:54 [josb]
+1
16:26:00 [mdean]
+1
16:26:02 [StellaMitchell]
...so we can use other methods to come up with the name list
16:26:24 [sandro]
"The regular attendees at Working Group meetings at the time of publication were:"
16:28:01 [AxelPolleres]
THere are means to kick out non-active members. I think we should put the non-active people in "bad standing"
16:28:12 [AxelPolleres]
i.e. contact their AC Reps.
16:28:15 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:28:15 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:28:43 [Stella_Mitchell]
Stella_Mitchell has joined #rif
16:29:06 [Stella_Mitchell]
harold: some people made contributions early on and then didn't attend calls
16:29:36 [Stella_Mitchell]
sandro: there can be several ways to select names and to acknowledge people
16:29:38 [Stella_Mitchell]
harold: ok
16:30:26 [sandro]
Sandro: the "acknowledgements" section should have this Regular Attendees bit, PLUS thanks for all the reviews, PLUS any other thanks the editors feel appropriate to give.
16:31:41 [csma]
action: sandro to start the wiki page for the active members of the WG
16:31:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-524 - Start the wiki page for the active members of the WG [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-06-17].
16:31:51 [Stella_Mitchell]
cw: any other business?
16:31:52 [sandro]
ACTION: Sandro create wiki page for inclusion in pubs, listing active members of WG at current time.
16:31:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-525 - Create wiki page for inclusion in pubs, listing active members of WG at current time. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-06-17].
16:32:00 [josb]
+1
16:32:01 [csma]
+1
16:32:04 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
16:32:05 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:32:07 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:32:08 [Zakim]
-josb
16:32:09 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:32:09 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
16:32:10 [Zakim]
-AdrianP
16:32:12 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:32:12 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, ChrisW, csma, josb, Sandro, StellaMitchell, AdrianP, Gary_Hallmark, IgorMozetic, AxelPolleres, Harold, +27226aaaa, Hassan
16:32:16 [Zakim]
-Hassan
16:32:16 [sandro]
trackbot, ACTION-524 done
16:32:16 [trackbot]
Sorry, sandro, I don't understand 'trackbot, ACTION-524 done'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
16:32:18 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
16:32:21 [sandro]
ACTION-524 done
16:32:23 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
16:32:27 [sandro]
ACTION-524: done
16:32:27 [trackbot]
ACTION-524 Start the wiki page for the active members of the WG notes added
16:32:32 [ChrisW]
Regrets: MichaelKifer MohamedZergaoui DaveReynolds PaulVincent
16:32:37 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:32:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:32:40 [sandro]
ACTION-524?
16:32:40 [trackbot]
ACTION-524 -- Sandro Hawke to start the wiki page for the active members of the WG -- due 2008-06-17 -- OPEN
16:32:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/524
16:32:45 [sandro]
ACTION-524 complete
16:32:50 [sandro]
ACTION-524: complete
16:32:50 [trackbot]
ACTION-524 Start the wiki page for the active members of the WG notes added
16:32:53 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
16:32:56 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:32:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Sandro
16:32:58 [sandro]
ACTION-524: [done]
16:32:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-524 Start the wiki page for the active members of the WG notes added
16:34:14 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
16:34:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Sandro
16:47:48 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:47:49 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:47:49 [Zakim]
-csma
16:47:50 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:47:52 [Zakim]
Attendees were Mike_Dean, ChrisW, csma, josb, Sandro, StellaMitchell, AdrianP, Gary_Hallmark, IgorMozetic, AxelPolleres, Harold, +27226aaaa, Hassan
17:29:56 [csma]
csma has left #rif