IRC log of soap-jms on 2008-06-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:48:48 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #soap-jms
15:48:48 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/03-soap-jms-irc
15:48:55 [RolandMerrick]
Zakim, list
15:48:55 [Zakim]
I see SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM, SW_SWD()11:00AM, SW_RIF()11:00AM, INC_RWAB()11:00AM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM active
15:48:57 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are WS_SAWSDL()12:00PM, SW_HCLS(Chairs)12:00PM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, SW_DAWG()10:30AM, MWI_TSWG()11:00AM, WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM
15:49:17 [RolandMerrick]
Zakim, this will be WS_SOAP-JM
15:49:17 [Zakim]
ok, RolandMerrick; I see WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:49:46 [Roland]
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15:49:50 [PhilAdams]
PhilAdams has joined #soap-jms
15:50:23 [Roland]
Meeting: SOAP-JMS WG teleconference
15:50:31 [Phil]
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15:50:42 [Roland]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Jun/0000.html
15:50:51 [Roland]
Chair: Roland
15:51:04 [Roland]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/03-soap-jms-minutes.html Roland
15:51:14 [Roland]
rrsagent, make log public
15:55:03 [Zakim]
WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has now started
15:55:10 [Zakim]
+alewis
15:57:38 [Zakim]
+Roland
15:58:10 [peaston]
peaston has joined #soap-jms
15:58:57 [Zakim]
+Peter
15:59:32 [Zakim]
+Derek
16:00:14 [Derek]
Derek has joined #soap-jms
16:00:42 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:01:18 [Roland]
Zakim, IBM is Phil
16:01:18 [Zakim]
+Phil; got it
16:01:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.667.aaaa
16:01:35 [alewis]
alewis has joined #soap-jms
16:02:03 [Roland]
Zakim, aaaa is Bhakti
16:02:03 [Zakim]
+Bhakti; got it
16:02:19 [Zakim]
+ +0196287aabb
16:03:15 [mphillip]
mphillip has joined #soap-jms
16:03:24 [Zakim]
+Yves
16:03:33 [Roland]
Zakim, aabb is mphilip
16:03:33 [Zakim]
+mphilip; got it
16:03:49 [Zakim]
-Bhakti
16:04:23 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.956.aacc
16:04:43 [Roland]
Zakim, aacc is Bhakti
16:04:43 [Zakim]
+Bhakti; got it
16:05:17 [Roland]
Regrets: Eric
16:05:56 [mphillip]
hair: Roland
16:06:02 [mphillip]
chair: Roland
16:06:05 [Roland]
Scribe: mphilip
16:07:05 [mphillip]
TOPIC: Testing
16:08:05 [mphillip]
Yves: Soap-HTTP binding was tested by examining the messages that flowed. Suggest testing soap-jms by intercepting the JMS API.
16:08:32 [Yves]
http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/Group/2/03/soap1.2implementation.html
16:10:36 [plh]
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16:10:47 [Zakim]
+Plh
16:12:06 [mphillip]
Peter has marked up both spec. XML documents with ed. notes to identify assertions.
16:14:41 [plh]
example: <where/> <forall/> x, y : components @ <nl/> <t1/> Id(x) = Id(y) <implies/> x = y <also/> componentIds = {~x : components @ Id(x)~}
16:15:54 [mphillip]
Looking for precedents for marking up assertions: the normative WSDL spec. used a markup style and WS-I took a similar approach
16:17:19 [mphillip]
alewis: We should check for correctness of RFC2119 keywords in the spec.
16:19:08 [mphillip]
peaston: There are approximately 50 assertions
16:19:54 [bhakti]
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16:22:50 [plh]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/ws/desc/
16:22:51 [mphillip]
alewis: Using markup for assertions helps to make the specification more effective
16:23:37 [Yves]
databiding did build the spec from the example, using lots of XSLT, but that's too extreme for us.
16:24:43 [mphillip]
ACTION: peaston to Take a look at the way that WSDL assertions are marked up and to try and apply it to soap-jms spec.
16:24:43 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-8 - Take a look at the way that WSDL assertions are marked up and to try and apply it to soap-jms spec. [on Peter Easton - due 2008-06-10].
16:27:25 [mphillip]
(Arthur was instrumental in formalizing the assertions in WSDL - and writing a non-normative version in Z notation)
16:28:19 [mphillip]
TOPIC: Proposals on the approach to testing
16:28:55 [Derek]
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16:29:40 [mphillip]
Phil and alewis have each made a proposal
16:31:38 [mphillip]
alewis: There are 2 profiles soap+wsdl and soap alone. for WSDL we simply need a validation tool. For SOAP, the proposal is to define a canonical XML schema for JMS messages - which will allow us to validate messages constructed by producers & consumers
16:32:37 [mphillip]
alewis: The tests would involve the implementation calling a message parser to check the correctness of messages.
16:33:46 [mphillip]
alewis: This proposal does not state how the test framework and test cases are structured
16:35:24 [mphillip]
Phil: This approach focuses on driving each implementation using mocked up partner code - so a producer would be tested against a mocked up consumer and vice-versa
16:36:25 [mphillip]
Phil: Validation would be carried out using a similar schema based canonical representation of messages
16:37:16 [mphillip]
Roland: There are two things to test - the specifications, and the conformance of implementations
16:39:53 [mphillip]
Roland: i.e. is the specification complete, correct, consistent, and can it be implemented?
16:42:05 [mphillip]
alewis: (apart from "Z") there aren't tools to test the spec. but implementing it and developing test cases is a good way to tighten a spec.
16:43:14 [mphillip]
Phil and alewis will continue to discuss their proposals and will aim for a single proposal - or to find some common ground - by next week
16:44:34 [Zakim]
-Plh
16:44:36 [Zakim]
-Bhakti
16:44:37 [Zakim]
-Phil
16:44:37 [Zakim]
-Peter
16:44:38 [mphillip]
next meeting - same time next week
16:44:38 [Zakim]
-Derek
16:44:39 [Zakim]
-Yves
16:44:40 [Zakim]
-alewis
16:44:40 [Zakim]
-Roland
16:44:46 [Zakim]
-mphilip
16:44:47 [Zakim]
WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has ended
16:44:48 [Zakim]
Attendees were alewis, Roland, Peter, Derek, Phil, +1.408.667.aaaa, Bhakti, +0196287aabb, Yves, mphilip, +1.408.956.aacc, Plh
16:44:59 [mphillip]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:44:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/03-soap-jms-minutes.html mphillip
17:00:05 [plh]
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18:36:35 [Zakim]
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