IRC log of xproc on 2008-05-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:02:02 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
15:02:04 [Zakim]
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15:02:07 [Norm]
Zakim, this is xproc
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ok, Norm; that matches XML_PMWG()11:00AM
15:02:09 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
15:02:09 [Norm]
Date: 29 May 2008
15:02:09 [Norm]
15:02:09 [Norm]
Meeting: 113
15:02:10 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
15:02:12 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
15:02:14 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
15:02:54 [Norm]
Regrets: Vojtech, Paul
15:04:53 [Norm]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:04:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm
15:05:00 [ht]
zakim, please call ht-781
15:05:00 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
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15:05:09 [richard]
richard has joined #xproc
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15:05:38 [richard]
zakim, ? is me
15:05:38 [Zakim]
+richard; got it
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15:06:19 [Zakim]
15:06:22 [ruilopes]
Zakim, ? is me
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+ruilopes; got it
15:06:26 [MoZ]
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15:06:28 [Norm]
Regrets: Vojtech, Paul, Andrew
15:06:34 [Norm]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:06:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Norm, Ht, richard, Murray_Maloney, ruilopes
15:08:06 [Zakim]
15:08:18 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Henry, Richard, Murray, Rui, Alex
15:08:27 [MSM]
zakim, please call MSM-617
15:08:27 [Zakim]
ok, MSM; the call is being made
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15:08:34 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
15:08:34 [Norm]
15:08:42 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Henry, Richard, Murray, Rui, Alex, Michael
15:08:44 [Norm]
15:08:46 [Zakim]
15:08:59 [alexmilowski]
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15:09:06 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
15:09:08 [Norm]
15:09:18 [Zakim]
15:09:29 [Norm]
Norm: The substance was PSVI support which I think we sorted as best we can before a new draft.
15:09:41 [MoZ]
Zakim, what is the code ?
15:09:41 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), MoZ
15:10:17 [Norm]
Henry: My action is still outstanding, but I don't think that should get in the way.
15:10:24 [Norm]
...To look for things that point outside the subtree.
15:10:46 [Norm]
15:10:57 [Zakim]
15:11:33 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon 5 June 2008
15:11:42 [Norm]
Regrets from Paul.
15:11:56 [Norm]
Topic: Last call status
15:12:12 [Norm]
Norm: We need to decide when we're ready.
15:12:21 [Norm]
...I think we're just about there, just the PSVI stuff I think.
15:12:25 [MoZ]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
15:12:25 [Zakim]
+MoZ; got it
15:12:50 [Norm]
Present: Norm, Henry, Richard, Murray, Rui, Alex, Michael, Mohamed
15:13:02 [Norm]
Norm: Can anyone think of anything we need to deal with first?
15:13:06 [Norm]
None heard.
15:14:20 [Norm]
Henry: It wouldn't be a bad idea to solicit feedback from our readers.
15:15:19 [Norm]
ACTION: Henry to setup an xproc developers list at
15:15:55 [Norm]
Murray: The GRDDL WG is finished, I made a point of ensuring that there was a comment in the GRDDL spec that pointed to XProc.
15:16:18 [Norm]
...I wonder whether in of this groups work there is an example of an XProc script that takes an XML document and turns it into triples.
15:16:38 [Norm]
Norm: I don't think we have one, but there's nothing to prevent us from creating one.
15:16:54 [Norm]
Alex: Do you have a specific example in mind?
15:17:01 [Norm]
Murray: No, but I think it should be as simple as possible.
15:17:33 [Norm]
Norm: It would be nice if it did more than XSLT.
15:17:45 [Norm]
Murray: All it has to do is some validation and run some RDFy kind of tool over the result.
15:18:06 [Norm]
Is there an example in the GRDDL speck?
15:18:08 [Norm]
15:18:20 [Norm]
Murray: Yes, there are a few.
15:18:25 [Norm]
s/Is there/Alex: Is there/
15:19:05 [Norm]
Norm: There's certainly room for more examples in the spec, and that would be a good one.
15:19:19 [Norm]
Norm: So, coming back to last call.
15:20:59 [Norm]
...I was thinking along these lines: LC mid June, CR late July, PR in mid September?
15:21:31 [Norm]
Topic: p:filter
15:22:16 [Norm]
Mohamed: Today we can have select on p:input, which is static.
15:22:37 [Norm]
...I have some use cases where I need to pass an XPath expression to a step where the expression is constructed by the pipeline.
15:24:11 [Norm]
...p:load is symmetric with p:document, it would be nice to have p:filter symetric to select on input.
15:24:54 [Norm]
Norm: And this is a select expression not a match because if you wanted a match you'd just use split-sequence and ignore the non-matched parts.
15:25:36 [Norm]
Henry: I'm confused. In what sense is p:input static, if I had an expression in a variable why wouldn't that work?
15:26:28 [ht]
HST: What is wrong with <p:input select="$foo"/>
15:27:14 [Norm]
Mohamed: That gives you the string of $foo, but doesn't use it to select parts of the document.
15:28:37 [ht]
Right, what you want is, as it were, <p:input><p:option name="select" value="$foo"/></p:input>
15:29:50 [Norm]
Richard: $foo is a string which isn't a node set so it's an error.
15:30:00 [Norm]
...We don't require the node set to come from the document, which is a little surprising.
15:30:17 [Norm]
Murray: So $foo in an argument should be evaluated to what it is.
15:30:21 [Zakim]
15:30:41 [Norm]
Richard: The select expression si $foo, and its value is teh value of $foo and it must be a string.
15:30:47 [Norm]
...And that's an error.
15:31:47 [Norm]
Some discussion of the meaning of evaulated select expressions.
15:33:06 [Norm]
Henry: We could make select into an option.
15:33:29 [Norm]
Norm: I think that would be really confusing.
15:34:01 [richard]
we could just add a function to our xpath extensions, like exslt's dyn:evaluate
15:34:57 [Norm]
Mohamed: The only thing that bothers me about that is, what's the context of the evaluation.
15:35:48 [Norm]
Mohamed: I think the simplest, most compatible thing is to add p:filter.
15:36:14 [Norm]
Murray: In a bourne shell, you can put something you want evaluated inside single quotes.
15:36:20 [richard]
15:36:28 [Norm]
...I wonder whether a simple syntax solution would be a result.
15:37:55 [Norm]
Proposal: add p:filter as Mohamed suggests
15:38:12 [Norm]
15:38:27 [Norm]
Richard: Required or optional?
15:38:35 [Norm]
Mohamed: p:load is required, right?
15:38:36 [Norm]
Norm: yes.
15:39:05 [Norm]
Norm: I think this is small enough and providing fairly core functionality, I'd make it required.
15:39:09 [Norm]
Proposal: required?
15:39:17 [Norm]
15:39:36 [Norm]
Topic: Changes to p:hash
15:40:42 [Norm]
Norm attempts to summarize the hash changes.
15:41:05 [Norm]
Mohamed: It's an optional step, so we can make it a bit stronger. For security reasons, sha1 and md5 are on the way out.
15:41:18 [Norm]
...Security considerations will require more options.
15:41:49 [Norm]
...And it's also valuable to provide crc even though it's not secure, it's widely used.
15:42:35 [Norm]
Norm: I'm sympathetic because I had reservations about the particularly narrow slice I made when I first proposed p:hash.
15:42:47 [Norm]
Proposal: change p:hash along the lines suggested by Mohamed
15:42:56 [Norm]
15:43:19 [Norm]
Topic: C14N
15:43:38 [Norm]
Norm: Mohamed proposoes a c14n step, we could also do it on serialization.
15:44:57 [Norm]
Henry: C14N specifies what a string looks like.
15:45:17 [Norm]
...It seems like we'd need this on the serialization options.
15:45:31 [Norm]
...Otherwise you can't output a C14N string form an XProc processor.
15:47:05 [Norm]
...You could have p:c14n, but it would be too limiting.
15:49:39 [Norm]
ACTION: Mohamed to propose serialization changes to support C14N.
15:50:02 [Norm]
Topic: XSLTMatchPattern clarifications
15:50:21 [Norm]
Norm: We need to say something about id(), key() the namespace axis, etc.
15:51:25 [Norm]
Richard: key() is added by XSLT.
15:51:37 [Norm]
...The namespace axis isn't a problem for XPath 1 processors because they must implement it.
15:52:15 [Norm]
...The other things are the functions added by XSLT.
15:53:06 [Norm]
Norm: On further consideration, I think id() is probably ok
15:53:49 [Zakim]
15:54:24 [Norm]
Richard: I would have thought that none of these things would be expected to work.
15:54:33 [Norm]
Norm: Well, match patterns come from XSLT, so you might expect them to work there
15:56:05 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to investigate the functions added by XSLT and draft some prose for the spec
15:57:30 [Norm]
Topic: Add a limit option to p:count
15:57:33 [Norm]
Mohamed summarizes.
15:59:14 [Norm]
Proposed: add a limit option to p:count along the lines Mohamed suggested
15:59:29 [Norm]
15:59:36 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business
15:59:56 [Norm]
16:00:00 [Zakim]
16:00:01 [Zakim]
16:00:01 [Norm]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
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XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Norm, Ht, richard, Murray_Maloney, ruilopes, Alex_Milows, MSM, MoZ
16:00:11 [Norm]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate Norm
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17:35:04 [Norm]
RRSAgent, bye
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I see 3 open action items saved in :
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ACTION: Henry to setup an xproc developers list at [1]
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recorded in
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ACTION: Mohamed to propose serialization changes to support C14N. [2]
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recorded in
17:35:04 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Norm to investigate the functions added by XSLT and draft some prose for the spec [3]
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recorded in