17:35:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:35:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-irc
17:36:06 <AllanJ> zakim, this will be wai_u
17:36:06 <Zakim> ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
17:36:17 <AllanJ> rrsagent, set logs public
17:45:36 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
17:47:25 <jeanne> jim, did you do the meeting set up already? 
17:47:36 <jeanne> ...for scribing
17:48:04 <AllanJ> just invited zakim and rrsagent, no titles, agenda etc
17:48:24 <jeanne> Ok, will do.  I just joined so I didn't see what was done. 
17:48:43 <jeanne> rssagent, set logs public
17:48:55 <jeanne> Meeting: UAWG
17:49:33 <jeanne> chair: Jim Allan
17:50:12 <jeanne> regrets: Kelly Ford, Alan Cantor
17:52:12 <jeanne> agenda:http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0120.html
17:54:32 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
17:54:39 <Zakim> +jeanne
17:55:12 <Zakim> +AllanJ
17:58:47 <Jan> Jan has joined #ua
18:01:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
18:01:34 <Zakim> +jcraig
18:01:39 <Jan> zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
18:01:39 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
18:02:02 <jeanne> zakim, jcraig is Dean
18:02:02 <Zakim> +Dean; got it
18:04:46 <Jan> Scribe: Jan
18:04:55 <jeanne> agenda?
18:05:12 <Jan> Topic: Printing in a user agent
18:05:32 <Jan> JA: No commenting yet on succes criteia...
18:05:43 <Jan> JA: Then some work on "passive reflow"
18:05:50 <Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0117.html
18:06:17 <Jan> And the SC: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0072.html
18:12:55 <Jan> DH: Defintion of flow looks fine
18:13:09 <Jan> Action: JS Add "Flow" to glossary 
18:13:32 <Jan> JA: OK on to the printing success criteria
18:14:40 <Jan> Action JR: Edit http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0072.html to remove "horizontal"
18:15:07 <Jan> JS: Key thing is to say "appropriate with the language"
18:15:56 <Jan> JA: I think if you review it...most of the text is in the flow defintion so this can be simplified
18:15:59 <Jan> JR: OK
18:16:07 <jeanne> "Print Scale: If a print from viewport feature is provided, 
18:16:07 <jeanne> the user has the option of printing using the viewport's scale settings 
18:16:07 <jeanne> such that the user agent should attempt to *passively reflow* the 
18:16:07 <jeanne> content into the horizontal dimensions of paper. If passive reflow is 
18:16:07 <jeanne> not possible, more than one sheet of paper will be required horizontally.
18:16:35 <Jan> JA: Then were we say the reflow is not possible, the same
18:19:01 <Jan> DH: ok...but looks like I need to get on irc
18:21:13 <Jan> DH: OK with basic requirement
18:21:30 <jeanne> JS: Ok
18:21:46 <Jan> Topic: 3. Establish a process for how UAWG determines success criteria level forUAAG2
18:21:59 <Jan> JA: Brought up by Kelly...
18:22:09 <Jan> JA: Looked at WCAG2...
18:22:48 <Jan> JA: In UAAG1 my rememberance is just that it was thrashed out in group...if something would "really" cause problems it was an A
18:22:59 <Jan> JA: Barrier to some is AA
18:23:06 <Jan> JA: Nice to do become AAA
18:23:55 <Jan> JR: Explains the WAI 1.0 vs 2.0 levels
18:24:20 <Jan> So Level A...no work around for user
18:24:42 <Jan> DH: What do you mean by "barrier" at level AA
18:25:14 <Jan> JA: Level AA is nuanced thing...if don't do it...things are difficult but not stonewalled
18:26:25 <Jan> JR: Points out that "reasonably be achieved" usually comes into it
18:26:45 <Jan> JA: We should try to harmonize with WCAG
18:26:57 <Jan> JR: ATAG not fully worked out yet
18:27:26 <Jan> JR: I suggest UAAG harmonizes with WCAG
18:30:08 <Jan> JR: Reads from http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20080430/conformance.html
18:30:17 <Jan> "Understanding Levels of Conformance"
18:31:27 <Jan> DH: Any one concerned about testable by machine or human
18:31:45 <Jan> DH: Concerned about machine testing
18:32:31 <AllanJ> JR: explains machine testing, 
18:32:45 <Jan> JR: Thinks that UA context would mainly be human testing
18:33:09 <Jan> JA: WCAG thinking about accessible content testing
18:33:28 <Jan> JA: Don't think we could do this in UA
18:33:58 <AllanJ> JR: talking about accessibility of web application
18:34:11 <AllanJ> ... tools can inspect the web application
18:34:30 <AllanJ> ... UAAG has requirement to provide a "list of link"
18:35:13 <AllanJ> ... not sure a machine can do this, but a human can determine if list is available
18:35:23 <Jan> DH: Would think a couple people for ac ouple weeks could test a browser
18:35:32 <Jan> oops that was JR
18:36:01 <Jan> JA: So WCAG fully baked?...
18:36:22 <Jan> JA: Don't know if we will creat an "Understanding UAAG"...
18:36:47 <jeanne> s/DH: Would/JR: Would
18:37:43 <Jan> JA: Maybe for our own internal use we can use the 13 page version...
18:38:53 <Jan> JA: We should inform our discussion of levels from WCAG's 13 page version...but when we actually write UAAG2's conf section we'll try to be shorter
18:39:40 <Jan> Topic: 4. Future directions
18:40:05 <Jan> JA: We have the"Keyboard access" thing...
18:40:14 <Jan> JA: But think that needs more work;...
18:40:35 <Jan> JA: Then we have the UA and video peice
18:40:44 <Jan> DH: WHat meant by video?
18:41:18 <Jan> JA: Right now video treated as plugin...we talk about passing control...etc.
18:42:02 <Jan> JA: In HTML5 video will become more native...so more issues come up: captions, text track
18:42:16 <Jan> JA: Our placeholder text needs to be cleaned up
18:43:15 <Jan> JA: I was thinking the browser should provide a standard widget set around video
18:43:48 <Jan> DH: Yeah...if its native it shouldn't be on screen readers to handle the scripting
18:43:55 <Jan> DH: Prob a pretty hot topic
18:44:03 <Jan> JA: Yes
18:45:48 <AllanJ> JR: ALT issue, give background. 
18:46:47 <AllanJ> ... a request for feedback to XTECH and HTML5 from UAWG
18:47:28 <Jan> JA: So from user agent...we're going to reveal to user agent what's important...
18:47:47 <Jan> JA: Up to HTML5 to decide how to store what's important...
18:49:15 <AllanJ> JR: doesn't want ambiguity in the HTML5 spec.
18:50:29 <Zakim> -jeanne
18:52:40 <Jan> JA: And in HTML5 there is a cascading layer thing....legends...containing imgs etc.
18:54:29 <AllanJ> JR: don't think a big deal. @alt to be alternate representation of the image, e.g. image of iceberg, @alt - iceberg floating in ocean, <legend> if it uses the same language
18:55:13 <AllanJ> ... then only reveal one, if they are different then reveal both
18:56:53 <Jan> JA: This is a screen reder repair issue...alt="" is decorative, no alt triggers repair
18:58:08 <Jan> Action: JA will go through UAAG2 and look at places concerned with revealing alternates
19:00:04 <Jan> DH: Maybe I will try and get James Craig involved.
19:00:19 <Jan> JA: Great...there's process things to do.
19:00:35 <Zakim> -Dean
19:11:06 <Zakim> -AllanJ
19:11:08 <Zakim> -Jan
19:11:09 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
19:11:11 <Zakim> Attendees were jeanne, AllanJ, Jan, Dean
19:11:20 <Jan> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:11:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-minutes.html Jan
19:11:28 <Jan> RRSAgent, set logs public
19:11:39 <Jan> Zakim, bye
19:11:39 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
19:11:46 <Jan> RRSAgent, bye
19:11:46 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-actions.rdf :
19:11:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JS Add "Flow" to glossary  [1]
19:11:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-irc#T18-13-09
19:11:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JR to Edit http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0072.html to remove "horizontal" [2]
19:11:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-irc#T18-14-40
19:11:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JA will go through UAAG2 and look at places concerned with revealing alternates [3]
19:11:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-irc#T18-58-08