IRC log of ua on 2008-05-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:35:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:35:54 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-irc
17:36:06 [AllanJ]
zakim, this will be wai_u
17:36:06 [Zakim]
ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
17:36:17 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
17:45:36 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
17:47:25 [jeanne]
jim, did you do the meeting set up already?
17:47:36 [jeanne]
...for scribing
17:48:04 [AllanJ]
just invited zakim and rrsagent, no titles, agenda etc
17:48:24 [jeanne]
Ok, will do. I just joined so I didn't see what was done.
17:48:43 [jeanne]
rssagent, set logs public
17:48:55 [jeanne]
Meeting: UAWG
17:49:33 [jeanne]
chair: Jim Allan
17:50:12 [jeanne]
regrets: Kelly Ford, Alan Cantor
17:52:12 [jeanne]
agenda:http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0120.html
17:54:32 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
17:54:39 [Zakim]
+jeanne
17:55:12 [Zakim]
+AllanJ
17:58:47 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
18:01:23 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:01:34 [Zakim]
+jcraig
18:01:39 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
18:01:39 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
18:02:02 [jeanne]
zakim, jcraig is Dean
18:02:02 [Zakim]
+Dean; got it
18:04:46 [Jan]
Scribe: Jan
18:04:55 [jeanne]
agenda?
18:05:12 [Jan]
Topic: Printing in a user agent
18:05:32 [Jan]
JA: No commenting yet on succes criteia...
18:05:43 [Jan]
JA: Then some work on "passive reflow"
18:05:50 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0117.html
18:06:17 [Jan]
And the SC: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0072.html
18:12:55 [Jan]
DH: Defintion of flow looks fine
18:13:09 [Jan]
Action: JS Add "Flow" to glossary
18:13:32 [Jan]
JA: OK on to the printing success criteria
18:14:40 [Jan]
Action JR: Edit http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0072.html to remove "horizontal"
18:15:07 [Jan]
JS: Key thing is to say "appropriate with the language"
18:15:56 [Jan]
JA: I think if you review it...most of the text is in the flow defintion so this can be simplified
18:15:59 [Jan]
JR: OK
18:16:07 [jeanne]
"Print Scale: If a print from viewport feature is provided,
18:16:07 [jeanne]
the user has the option of printing using the viewport's scale settings
18:16:07 [jeanne]
such that the user agent should attempt to *passively reflow* the
18:16:07 [jeanne]
content into the horizontal dimensions of paper. If passive reflow is
18:16:07 [jeanne]
not possible, more than one sheet of paper will be required horizontally.
18:16:35 [Jan]
JA: Then were we say the reflow is not possible, the same
18:19:01 [Jan]
DH: ok...but looks like I need to get on irc
18:21:13 [Jan]
DH: OK with basic requirement
18:21:30 [jeanne]
JS: Ok
18:21:46 [Jan]
Topic: 3. Establish a process for how UAWG determines success criteria level forUAAG2
18:21:59 [Jan]
JA: Brought up by Kelly...
18:22:09 [Jan]
JA: Looked at WCAG2...
18:22:48 [Jan]
JA: In UAAG1 my rememberance is just that it was thrashed out in group...if something would "really" cause problems it was an A
18:22:59 [Jan]
JA: Barrier to some is AA
18:23:06 [Jan]
JA: Nice to do become AAA
18:23:55 [Jan]
JR: Explains the WAI 1.0 vs 2.0 levels
18:24:20 [Jan]
So Level A...no work around for user
18:24:42 [Jan]
DH: What do you mean by "barrier" at level AA
18:25:14 [Jan]
JA: Level AA is nuanced thing...if don't do it...things are difficult but not stonewalled
18:26:25 [Jan]
JR: Points out that "reasonably be achieved" usually comes into it
18:26:45 [Jan]
JA: We should try to harmonize with WCAG
18:26:57 [Jan]
JR: ATAG not fully worked out yet
18:27:26 [Jan]
JR: I suggest UAAG harmonizes with WCAG
18:30:08 [Jan]
JR: Reads from http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20080430/conformance.html
18:30:17 [Jan]
"Understanding Levels of Conformance"
18:31:27 [Jan]
DH: Any one concerned about testable by machine or human
18:31:45 [Jan]
DH: Concerned about machine testing
18:32:31 [AllanJ]
JR: explains machine testing,
18:32:45 [Jan]
JR: Thinks that UA context would mainly be human testing
18:33:09 [Jan]
JA: WCAG thinking about accessible content testing
18:33:28 [Jan]
JA: Don't think we could do this in UA
18:33:58 [AllanJ]
JR: talking about accessibility of web application
18:34:11 [AllanJ]
... tools can inspect the web application
18:34:30 [AllanJ]
... UAAG has requirement to provide a "list of link"
18:35:13 [AllanJ]
... not sure a machine can do this, but a human can determine if list is available
18:35:23 [Jan]
DH: Would think a couple people for ac ouple weeks could test a browser
18:35:32 [Jan]
oops that was JR
18:36:01 [Jan]
JA: So WCAG fully baked?...
18:36:22 [Jan]
JA: Don't know if we will creat an "Understanding UAAG"...
18:36:47 [jeanne]
s/DH: Would/JR: Would
18:37:43 [Jan]
JA: Maybe for our own internal use we can use the 13 page version...
18:38:53 [Jan]
JA: We should inform our discussion of levels from WCAG's 13 page version...but when we actually write UAAG2's conf section we'll try to be shorter
18:39:40 [Jan]
Topic: 4. Future directions
18:40:05 [Jan]
JA: We have the"Keyboard access" thing...
18:40:14 [Jan]
JA: But think that needs more work;...
18:40:35 [Jan]
JA: Then we have the UA and video peice
18:40:44 [Jan]
DH: WHat meant by video?
18:41:18 [Jan]
JA: Right now video treated as plugin...we talk about passing control...etc.
18:42:02 [Jan]
JA: In HTML5 video will become more native...so more issues come up: captions, text track
18:42:16 [Jan]
JA: Our placeholder text needs to be cleaned up
18:43:15 [Jan]
JA: I was thinking the browser should provide a standard widget set around video
18:43:48 [Jan]
DH: Yeah...if its native it shouldn't be on screen readers to handle the scripting
18:43:55 [Jan]
DH: Prob a pretty hot topic
18:44:03 [Jan]
JA: Yes
18:45:48 [AllanJ]
JR: ALT issue, give background.
18:46:47 [AllanJ]
... a request for feedback to XTECH and HTML5 from UAWG
18:47:28 [Jan]
JA: So from user agent...we're going to reveal to user agent what's important...
18:47:47 [Jan]
JA: Up to HTML5 to decide how to store what's important...
18:49:15 [AllanJ]
JR: doesn't want ambiguity in the HTML5 spec.
18:50:29 [Zakim]
-jeanne
18:52:40 [Jan]
JA: And in HTML5 there is a cascading layer thing....legends...containing imgs etc.
18:54:29 [AllanJ]
JR: don't think a big deal. @alt to be alternate representation of the image, e.g. image of iceberg, @alt - iceberg floating in ocean, <legend> if it uses the same language
18:55:13 [AllanJ]
... then only reveal one, if they are different then reveal both
18:56:53 [Jan]
JA: This is a screen reder repair issue...alt="" is decorative, no alt triggers repair
18:58:08 [Jan]
Action: JA will go through UAAG2 and look at places concerned with revealing alternates
19:00:04 [Jan]
DH: Maybe I will try and get James Craig involved.
19:00:19 [Jan]
JA: Great...there's process things to do.
19:00:35 [Zakim]
-Dean
19:11:06 [Zakim]
-AllanJ
19:11:08 [Zakim]
-Jan
19:11:09 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
19:11:11 [Zakim]
Attendees were jeanne, AllanJ, Jan, Dean
19:11:20 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:11:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-minutes.html Jan
19:11:28 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
19:11:39 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
19:11:39 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:11:46 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
19:11:46 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-actions.rdf :
19:11:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS Add "Flow" to glossary [1]
19:11:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-irc#T18-13-09
19:11:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Edit http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0072.html to remove "horizontal" [2]
19:11:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-irc#T18-14-40
19:11:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JA will go through UAAG2 and look at places concerned with revealing alternates [3]
19:11:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-ua-irc#T18-58-08