12:31:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
12:31:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-irc
12:31:47 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:31:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
12:31:49 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
12:31:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng; I see GA_SVGWG()8:30AM scheduled to start now
12:31:50 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
12:31:50 <trackbot-ng> Date: 29 May 2008
12:32:21 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()8:30AM has now started
12:32:28 <Zakim> +Andrew_Emmons
12:33:35 <Zakim> +??P4
12:33:50 <anthony> zakim, ??4 is me
12:33:50 <Zakim> sorry, anthony, I do not recognize a party named '??4'
12:34:37 <ed> ed has joined #svg
12:35:13 <shepazu> Zakim, call doug-work
12:35:13 <Zakim> ok, shepazu; the call is being made
12:35:15 <Zakim> +Doug
12:35:17 <Zakim> +m_schnei
12:35:57 <shepazu> Zakim, +??P4 is anthony 
12:35:57 <Zakim> sorry, shepazu, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'
12:36:19 <anthony> zakim, ??P4 is me
12:36:19 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
12:36:22 <ed> Zakim, m_schnei is me
12:36:22 <Zakim> +ed; got it
12:37:43 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
12:38:21 <Zakim> -Doug
12:39:44 <ChrisL> ChrisL has changed the topic to: Shifty Vendor-specific Glyphs
12:39:50 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
12:39:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andrew_Emmons, anthony, ed
12:39:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, ed, Zakim, RRSAgent, aemmons, zlatinski, heycam, ed_, shepazu, MikeSmith, anthony, trackbot-ng
12:41:17 <Zakim> + +1.214.557.aaaa
12:41:37 <Zakim> +ChrisL
12:42:06 <ChrisL> zakim, +1.214 is zlatinski
12:42:06 <Zakim> +zlatinski; got it
12:43:02 <Zakim> -Andrew_Emmons
12:43:16 <ed> scribe: Erik
12:43:20 <ed> scribeNick: ed
12:43:27 <ed> Chair: AE
12:43:34 <ChrisL> I answered a couple of Kalles font questions
12:43:41 <Zakim> +Andrew_Emmons
12:43:44 <ChrisL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0053.html
12:43:52 <ChrisL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0055.html
12:44:15 <aemmons> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0068.html
12:44:27 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0068.html
12:44:46 <ed> Topic: Errors in approved tests
12:44:51 <aemmons> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0065.html
12:45:14 <shepazu> Zakim, call doug-work
12:45:14 <Zakim> ok, shepazu; the call is being made
12:45:16 <Zakim> +Doug
12:45:42 <ed> ED: so these tests are invalid as I see it, how do we proceed?
12:45:56 <ed> CL: mark them as non-approved, and take them out for this release
12:46:13 <ed> ...Kalle also writes that there are additional tests that are invalid
12:46:25 <ed> ...some of the converted 1.1 tests
12:46:48 <ed> AE: we'd have to reprocess the testsuite after this, right AG?
12:47:00 <ed> AG: yes, but it's all ready, just run some scripts
12:47:07 <Zakim> -Doug
12:47:33 <ed> AE: AG will you mark tests as non-approved, and re-run the scripts?
12:47:37 <ed> AG: sure
12:48:00 <ed> ...which ones should I unapprove?
12:48:15 <ed> CL: fonts-gyph-03 is ok
12:48:28 <ed> ...text-intro-03 I'll fix that now
12:48:45 <ed> AE: ok, so that will be fixed now before we do the publication
12:50:07 <ed> AG: ok, will have testsuite ready for publication on tuesday next week
12:51:02 <ed> CL: the process of publishing is not that difficult, we just need to decide to do it
12:51:20 <ed> AE: so let's do the publication on tuesday next week
12:52:26 <anthony> ACTION: anthony to send an email out asking for tests to un-approve and to regenerate the test suite based on the feedback
12:52:26 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2044 - Send an email out asking for tests to un-approve and to regenerate the test suite based on the feedback [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-06-05].
12:53:39 <ed> RESOLUTION: we will publish the 1.2T testsuite on wednesday June 4, all pending changes need to be in before tuesday 
12:54:21 <ed> Topic: public cvs transition
12:54:41 <ed> AE: status update?
12:55:17 <ed> ...doug was trying to get the repository added, but we didn't assign anyone to move stuff over
12:55:26 <ed> ...is that something only the staff contact can do?
12:55:30 <aemmons_> aemmons_ has joined #svg
12:55:37 <ed> CL: everyone in the group needs cvs access
12:55:47 <ed> ...so that we can all read and write to it
12:56:07 <ed> AE: once that's in place anyone can do that
12:56:25 <ed> CL: yes, but we need to be careful with revision numbers (especially on the testsuite)
12:56:39 <ed> AE: and the history will be lost
12:56:44 <ed> CL: yes
12:57:05 <ed> ...the 1.2T spec, 1.2 specs and 1.1 errata should be moved
12:57:09 <ChrisL> need to talk to systems team to ensure all wg members have read write cvs access
12:57:16 <ed> AE: who wants to do that?
12:57:19 <ed> CL: i can do that
12:57:41 <ed> AE: just needs to be coordinated so that we don't check into the old cvs-space
12:57:56 <ed> ...decide on a time, or send an email about it?
12:58:01 <ed> CL: will send email
12:59:41 <ed> ACTION: CL to move the 1.2T spec, 1.2 modules, 1.1 errata to the new public cvs-space
12:59:41 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2045 - Move the 1.2T spec, 1.2 modules, 1.1 errata to the new public cvs-space [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-06-05].
13:00:14 <ed> Topic: the open edits action review
13:00:17 <aemmons_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0064.html
13:00:35 <ed> AE: I'll start sending out weekly updates on edits, to make sure that actions are kept at a minimal level
13:00:47 <ed> ...since the spec was changed after tests were made
13:01:16 <ed> Topic: animate-elem-224
13:01:22 <aemmons_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0063.html
13:02:05 <ed> AE: this is in response to our review comments (from the F2F) about making a simpler test
13:02:27 <ed> ...just wanted to respond, the tests are complex and that makes it take longer to review them
13:03:46 <ed> TZ: it tests many things at once, it was difficult to verify it
13:04:08 <ed> AE: yes, there are a few tests like it
13:04:16 <shepazu> Zakim, call doug-work
13:04:16 <Zakim> ok, shepazu; the call is being made
13:04:20 <Zakim> +Doug
13:04:28 <ed> ...is it worth trying to make the tests simpler?
13:06:01 <ed> CL: he's synthesizing a quadratic curve
13:06:10 <ed> ...suggest putting it out
13:06:24 <ed> ...i'm worried if it requires particular precision
13:06:40 <ed> AE: the expected result is way different from what's actually happening
13:06:51 <ed> TZ: it's also made more complex because of the multiple animations
13:07:40 <ed> ...i'm going to let the implementors judge if it's easy enough
13:07:51 <ed> ...and that it's testable
13:08:08 <ed> AE: because it's a complex test we'd have to debug it over the course of several days
13:08:14 <ed> ...it's a resource issue
13:08:33 <ed> TZ: is it just this test, or are the others that players don't pass?
13:08:41 <ed> AE: there are others
13:09:19 <ed> TZ: i could take a look at those tests in house and see if we can verify them
13:09:50 <ed> ...I'm going to ask the developers to verify the correctness of the tests
13:10:05 <ed> CL: this particular ones can't be simplified
13:10:20 <ed> ...he's correct that you can't simplify it if you want to have a curve
13:10:52 <ed> ...he's testing two combined animations on one attribute
13:11:03 <ed> ...otherwise it would just be animated on a line
13:11:22 <ed> ...since it's a quadratic curve and svg has quadratic curves he can show the correct trajectory
13:11:37 <ed> ...think the test is correct
13:12:12 <ed> AE: I can email the group with the list of DOH tests that are still left to review
13:12:21 <ed> CL: right, but this one is fairly simple still
13:13:36 <ed> ACTION: TZ to review the 1.2T DOH tests that are still unreviewed (AE will send a list of the tests to public-svg-wg)
13:13:36 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - TZ
13:13:53 <ed> ACTION: atanas to review the 1.2T DOH tests that are still unreviewed (AE will send a list of the tests to public-svg-wg)
13:13:53 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2046 - Review the 1.2T DOH tests that are still unreviewed (AE will send a list of the tests to public-svg-wg) [on Atanas (Tony) Zlatinski - due 2008-06-05].
13:14:28 <ed> ACTION: AE to email DOH to say that we're doing additional review on his tests
13:14:28 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2047 - Email DOH to say that we're doing additional review on his tests [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-06-05].
13:14:43 <aemmons_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0047.html
13:14:49 <ed> Topic: unanswered questions on www-svg
13:15:17 <ed> AE: some of these have been discussed
13:15:35 <ed> CL: I've responded to the first two
13:15:42 <ed> AE: no spec changes?
13:15:49 <ed> CL: not in svg, but in css
13:16:09 <ChrisL> clarifications, not conformance changes
13:16:11 <ed> AE: for the third one, cameron have already had some feedback but there's been no official response
13:16:22 <ed> CL: I'm halfway through that one
13:16:31 <ed> AE: ok, the last one then
13:16:58 <ed> CL: he's correct
13:17:29 <ed> ...the spec says that xml:space applies to text block elements, which is text and textarea only
13:17:35 <ed> ...the test puts in on tspan
13:17:42 <ed> ...which should be possible
13:17:49 <ed> ...but we need to edit the spec
13:18:04 <ed> ...just going to check the current spec
13:18:18 <ChrisL> zakim, who is noisy?
13:18:29 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: anthony (25%), Doug (15%)
13:19:24 <ed> CL: it refers to text element content
13:19:48 <ed> ...need to say that xml:space also applies to children of text element content
13:20:00 <ed> ...we need to errata 1.1 and change 1.2T
13:20:32 <ed> DS: I started to add a definition for text content child elements, since you may have a title for example
13:20:37 <ed> ...or an anchor tag
13:22:48 <ed> ACTION: CL to add the child definition of text content element to cover the xml:space issue and add an errata 1.1 item, and fix the 1.2T spec, and reply to kalle
13:22:48 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2048 - Add the child definition of text content element to cover the xml:space issue and add an errata 1.1 item, and fix the 1.2T spec, and reply to kalle [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-06-05].
13:23:14 <shepazu> q+
13:23:19 <ed> AE: do we need to track the list better, and make sure it's on the agenda each week?
13:23:43 <ed> CL: yes, and reply to each message quickly with links to the public minutes
13:23:59 <ed> AE: yes
13:24:02 <ChrisL> its the same text in the repository version
13:24:03 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/spec/mobile/1.2/1.2NG/publish/intro.html#TermTextContentBlockElement
13:24:13 <ed> DS: using tracker would be useful, many things falls through the cracks
13:25:04 <ed> ...in trying to answer to questions, we should still prioritize spec work, we should set aside about 30 mins each telcon for that
13:25:23 <ed> AE: do you suggest putting things in the issue tracker as soon as they come in?
13:25:45 <ed> CL: the new tracker can create agendas from the open issues and actions
13:25:58 <ed> ...based on due dates too
13:26:21 <ed> AE: the public can't add issues though?
13:26:25 <ed> CL: right
13:26:30 <ed> ...but they can read it
13:26:45 <ed> DS: better than the bugtracker
13:26:58 <ed> ...having two tracking systems is a bad idea
13:27:33 <ed> AE: right, so just paying attention to the www-svg list and adding them to the issue tracker would be a good idea
13:27:36 <aemmons_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0061.html
13:27:37 <ed> Topic: XHR review
13:27:49 <ed> AE,CL: haven't had time to review
13:28:04 <ed> DS: have read it, has alot of dependencies on HTML5
13:28:43 <ed> ...have asked for something saying that the host language defines somethings
13:29:26 <ed> ...there are definitions of terms that are defined in HTML5
13:29:50 <ed> ...the content-type, if you have an XML type do this, otherwise refer to HTML5
13:30:00 <ed> ...need to read through it
13:30:32 <ed> ...reversing the dependency chain would be an option
13:30:46 <ed> AE: so svg couldn't reference this, since it has HTML5 dependencies
13:31:01 <ed> DS: it wouldn't be neat, but I don't agree with your statement
13:31:13 <ed> ...it has provisions for processing XML
13:31:20 <ed> ...it's not exclusive to HTML5
13:32:56 <ed> AE: what's the due date?
13:33:10 <ed> ED: June 2
13:34:42 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
13:34:42 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-irc#T13-34-42
13:34:49 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
13:34:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
13:35:10 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
13:35:12 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
13:35:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
13:35:20 <ed> DS: it's unlikely the dependencies will change unless defined elsewhere
13:38:57 <ed> AE: if we want to have a formal review we need to get it done today
13:39:03 <ed> s/today/soon/
13:39:35 <ed> AE: so, the dependencies on HTML5 
13:39:51 <ed> DS: right, but it's small parts of it still
13:40:08 <ed> TZ: is it possible to do our own interface?
13:40:37 <ed> DS: we've done that already, but we will try to use XHR in the future
13:40:45 <ed> ...that's the preference
13:41:12 <ed> AE: in order to get a review we need reviews to the list and to compile the list of comments
13:41:21 <Zakim> -ChrisL
13:41:38 <ChrisL> i was dropped from the call, redialing
13:41:38 <ed> DS: I'll review it, ed and heycam should do it too
13:41:45 <ed> ...we could ask for an extension
13:42:24 <Zakim> +ChrisL
13:42:52 <ed> ...will do that
13:43:39 <ed> CL: right, so we can do that and still try to get review comments in order
13:44:37 <ed> ACTION: heycam to review the XHR spec and send to public-svg-wg
13:44:37 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - heycam
13:44:51 <ed> ACTION: cameron to review the XHR spec and send to public-svg-wg
13:44:51 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2049 - Review the XHR spec and send to public-svg-wg [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-05].
13:45:24 <ed> ACTION: DS to review the XHR spec and send comments to public-svg-wg 
13:45:24 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2050 - Review the XHR spec and send comments to public-svg-wg  [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-06-05].
13:45:36 <ed> ACTION: ED to review the XHR spec and send comments to public-svg-wg 
13:45:36 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2051 - Review the XHR spec and send comments to public-svg-wg  [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-05].
13:47:28 <anthony> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Nuremburg_F2F_2008
13:48:03 <ed> Topic: SVG WG F2F
13:48:39 <ed> ED: can we confirm these are the correct dates?
13:49:03 <ed> CL: if we have a testfest before then we also need to decide those dates
13:50:56 <ed> ACTION: to respond to alexander adams about the SVG WG F2F nuremberg dates, and get information for the wiki
13:50:56 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
13:51:07 <ed> ACTION: ED to respond to alexander adams about the SVG WG F2F nuremberg dates, and get information for the wiki
13:51:07 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2052 - Respond to alexander adams about the SVG WG F2F nuremberg dates, and get information for the wiki [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-05].
13:51:17 <ed> Topic: testfest
13:51:30 <ed> AE: not sure if I can travel for personal reasons
13:51:52 <ed> CL: not a problem, w3c staff can run the tests if the implementation is available
13:53:06 <ed> AE: so we need to pick a date and location
13:54:01 <ed> CL: if we have it sooner we'll get results quicker, but later if we want better results
13:54:12 <ed> ...thinking july perhaps, in good time before the svg open?
13:54:59 <ed> AE: so a virtual testfest is perhaps an idea, so that we don't all have to be present at some location
13:55:53 <ed> CL: if people have travelled somewhere, you get the attention of everyone, and can ask anyone for running paricular tests
13:56:12 <ed> AG: we could also do it right before the nuremberg f2f
13:56:47 <ed> AE: how many more testfests do we need you think?
13:56:57 <ed> ...it's resource intensive
13:57:10 <ed> ...we could take time from the f2f to do it
13:57:33 <ed> DS: if we're having a testfest in raleigh, i'd have to get somewhere for us to meet
13:58:27 <ed> AE: maybe not decide now, but we should try to nail this down for next week
13:59:06 <ed> Topic: telcon times
13:59:16 <ed> DS: this time doesn't work well for heycam
13:59:50 <ed> ...don't want to lose him from the team
13:59:59 <ed> ...especially given the constraints stuff
14:00:28 <ed> ...is it possible to have telcons at different times?
14:00:41 <ed> ED,CL: yes, no problem
14:01:33 <ed> CL: moving it later wouldn't make it worse for him, since he can't do this time either
14:01:47 <ed> DS: if we moved it back to the original time he could make it
14:01:56 <ed> ...we moved it because of TZ
14:02:08 <ed> ...we could have one late and one early call
14:02:19 <ed> ...if we can't find a suitable time for everyone
14:03:19 <ed> AE: so we would fluctuate between heycam and slim
14:04:17 <ed> RESOLUTION: for tuesdays, let's do the new time, thursdays let's do the old time
14:04:25 <Zakim> -Andrew_Emmons
14:04:27 <Zakim> -ed
14:04:29 <Zakim> -ChrisL
14:04:31 <Zakim> -zlatinski
14:04:31 <Zakim> -anthony
14:04:41 <Zakim> -Doug
14:04:42 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()8:30AM has ended
14:04:45 <Zakim> Attendees were Andrew_Emmons, Doug, anthony, ed, +1.214.557.aaaa, ChrisL, zlatinski
14:04:46 <ed> zakim, bye
14:04:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
14:04:51 <ed> rrsagent, make minutes
14:04:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/29-svg-minutes.html ed
15:32:33 <billyjack> billyjack has joined #svg
15:33:53 <shepazu> Action: shepazu to test trackbot-ng 
15:33:53 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - shepazu
15:34:52 <shepazu> trackbot-ng, restart
15:35:01 <shepazu> trackbot-ng, reboot
15:36:06 <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng, reload
15:36:42 <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng, status?
15:37:03 <MikeSmith> shepazu: seems you = "Doug"
15:37:11 <shepazu> right
15:37:27 <shepazu> Action: shepazu to test trackbot-ng's nicknames
15:37:27 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - shepazu
15:37:56 <shepazu> but I set up a bunch of aliases for various people...
15:38:18 <MikeSmith> shepazu: trackbot-ng appears to be confused
15:38:27 <MikeSmith> e.g., not responding to reload
15:38:30 <shepazu> indeed.
15:38:51 <MikeSmith> I seem to remember this hampning before
15:39:05 <MikeSmith> but don't remember what the resolution was
15:40:13 <shepazu> 800 x 600, since it's for the Web
15:40:30 <shepazu> sorry, the "Web platform"
15:41:30 <shepazu> trackbot-ng, init
16:04:20 <MikeSmith> the "open platform"
16:04:29 <MikeSmith> the "stack" .. of crap
17:14:22 <s-mon> s-mon has joined #svg
17:14:41 <s-mon> trackbot-ng, status
17:15:27 <shepazu> Action: shepazu to test trackbot-ng's nicknames
17:15:27 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - shepazu
17:15:36 <s-mon> ACTION: cheese - test - due 2008.05.30
17:15:36 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - cheese
17:15:38 <shepazu> see, it should know me
17:15:43 <shepazu> and cheese
17:15:57 <s-mon> hmm.
17:16:01 <s-mon> let me see...
17:16:35 <s-mon> let me just test this...
17:16:45 <s-mon> trackbot-ng, init
17:16:54 <s-mon> i want to see if it does anything.
17:17:05 <shepazu> yup
17:17:22 <shepazu> btw, can we rename it "trackbot"?
17:17:31 <s-mon> this can be really slow as it parses the config.
17:17:37 <s-mon> can take several minutes.
17:17:50 <shepazu> are there any instances of "trackbot" still running?
17:18:03 <s-mon> this is a bottom feeder instance, as it is way down the config.
17:18:19 <s-mon> not sure at this sec.
17:18:38 <s-mon> this was one of the very last to be rev'd.
17:19:28 <s-mon> almost 3 minutes.
17:20:10 <s-mon> i may need to restart trackbot-related stuff.
17:21:08 <s-mon> trackbot-ng, restart
17:21:16 <s-mon> let's see what happens.
17:24:16 <s-mon> trackbot-ng, excuse us
17:31:09 <s-mon> trackbot-ng, reload
17:31:31 <s-mon> hmm.
17:33:43 <s-mon> ah, have to do from team channels.
17:33:56 <s-mon> trackbot-ng, status
17:34:07 <shepazu> ahhh
17:34:45 <s-mon> let's see what status reports.
17:34:55 <shepazu> Action: shepazu to test trackbot-ng's nicknames
17:35:31 <s-mon> or we can test an action.
17:35:34 <s-mon> ACTION: cheese - to cut it - due 2008.05.30
17:35:38 <s-mon> hmm...
17:36:00 <s-mon> let's see if tracker picks this up...
17:36:17 <s-mon> it can take a delay when you have a couple of requests queued.
17:36:35 <s-mon> see.
17:36:38 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2053 - Test trackbot-ng's nicknames [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-06-05].
17:36:43 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2054 - - to cut it [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-29].
17:37:04 <s-mon> does that look right.
17:37:13 <s-mon> s/./?/
17:37:29 <shepazu> yeah, looks good!
17:37:31 <shepazu> thanks!
17:37:34 <s-mon> okely dokely.
17:38:23 <s-mon> hasta la vista, fezzy.
17:38:27 <s-mon> s-mon has left #svg