14:01:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:01:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/27-bpwg-irc
14:01:09 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:11 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:01:12 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:01:12 <trackbot-ng> Date: 27 May 2008
14:01:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
14:01:49 <francois> zakim, code?
14:02:02 <Zakim> sorry, francois, I don't know what conference this is
14:02:27 <francois> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0037.html
14:02:36 <francois> Regrets: AndrewS, Jo, Pontus, kemp, Bryan
14:06:02 <rob> rob has joined #bpwg
14:07:33 <francois> Present: rob, hgerlach, francois
14:08:10 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #bpwg
14:10:15 <francois> Present+ SeanP
14:10:35 <francois> Scribe: SeanP
14:10:39 <francois> ScribeNick: SeanP
14:10:50 <francois> Topic: One time URIs
14:10:56 <SeanP> Topic: One time URIs
14:11:00 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0012.html Heiko's email
14:11:13 <SeanP> Francois: Raised by Heiko
14:11:51 <SeanP> Francois: We cannot address it more than we already do.
14:12:28 <SeanP> Heiko: For one time URLs we can add no-transform.
14:12:39 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: One-time URIs are already addressed in the guidelines. Close the discussion.
14:12:56 <hgerlach> +1
14:13:00 <francois> +1
14:13:11 <rob> +1
14:13:17 <SeanP> RESOLUTION: One-time URIs are already addressed in the guidelines. Close the discussion.
14:13:47 <SeanP> Topic: Idempotency
14:14:04 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0027.html fd's email
14:14:18 <SeanP> Francois: We had the correct definition of idempotency.
14:14:35 <SeanP> ...If you do the same action multiple times you get the same result.
14:15:12 <SeanP> ...GET requests are supposed to be idempotent.
14:15:16 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Keep things as resolved re. idempotency for the end of 4.1.2. Valid use of "idempotent".
14:15:25 <rob> +1
14:15:48 <SeanP> +1
14:15:50 <francois> +1
14:15:57 <SeanP> RESOLUTION: Keep things as resolved re. idempotency for the end of 4.1.2. Valid use of "idempotent".
14:15:58 <hgerlach> +1
14:16:16 <francois> Close ACTION-751
14:16:16 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-751 Make sure that we are clear about idempotency and side-effect freedome etc. per Dom's original illuminating point about this section closed
14:16:25 <SeanP> Topic: Sessions and consistency of user experience
14:17:50 <SeanP> Francois: One things we do not say a lot about is URL-rewriting
14:18:13 <SeanP> ...a click on a link goes through the CT proxy again.
14:18:38 <SeanP> ...Don't think we need to say much about this.
14:18:43 <SeanP> q+
14:19:04 <SeanP> Heiko: If you do not have CT enabled, you can't insert links.
14:19:22 <SeanP> ...Should we define an additional header?
14:20:06 <SeanP> ...CT proxy whould add the header.
14:20:16 <francois> ack SeanP
14:21:34 <hgerlach> +q
14:22:37 <SeanP> Francois: When a page is not transformed, then user cannot be back to CT proxy easily
14:23:25 <SeanP> ...also, we do not say much in the guidelines about rewritten URLs and that the CT proxy needs to set the HTTP headers like the request actually came from the client.
14:23:41 <SeanP> ...don't think we need to emphasize this in the document.
14:24:27 <SeanP> Heiko: CT proxy can be set up as an HTTP proxy where URLs are not rewritten.
14:26:31 <francois> q?
14:26:34 <francois> ack hgerlach 
14:26:42 <SeanP> Francois: Don't think we can say much about CT proxy and directing to a page not going through the CT proxy.
14:26:53 <SeanP> ...I see headers and footers as out of scope.
14:31:33 <hgerlach> q+
14:32:08 <francois> ack hgerlach 
14:32:52 <SeanP> Francois: Cache-control needs to be strong...could use out of scope means to rewrite URLs.
14:33:30 <SeanP> Heiko: We have two different no-transform options.
14:33:52 <SeanP> ...first can be HTTP header, second can be in META header.
14:34:11 <hgerlach> http://wapreview.com/blog/?p=516
14:36:47 <SeanP> s/header/tag/
14:37:03 <francois> ACTION: daoust to check on equivalence between an HTTP header and a META element in HTML pages
14:37:04 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-765 - Check on equivalence between an HTTP header and a META element in HTML pages [on François Daoust - due 2008-06-03].
14:39:28 <SeanP> Francois: I don't think we can do anything about this issue.
14:39:43 <SeanP> ...there is an an editorial note in the document.
14:39:55 <SeanP> Rob: Maybe the note should stay there.
14:40:32 <SeanP> Francois: Maybe we could put in a note about how the user experience could break with no-transform.
14:41:09 <SeanP> Rob: Have a note that it would be a good idea to keep the user experience the same across the session.
14:41:27 <hgerlach> how do you define session#
14:42:10 <SeanP> Francois:  Don't think we should use "session" because then we would need to define session.
14:42:46 <francois> Note: When possible, the consistency of user experience should be maintained across a sequence of related requests.
14:44:00 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: for sessions: replace the editorial note with the above note. Do not mention sessions. Do not go into more details.
14:44:47 <rob> +1
14:44:57 <hgerlach> +1
14:44:59 <francois> 0
14:45:12 <SeanP> RESOLUTION: for sessions: replace the editorial note with the above note. Do not mention sessions. Do not go into more details.
14:45:25 <francois> Close ACTION-755
14:45:25 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-755 Summarize the issue that may be raised by sessions closed
14:45:48 <SeanP> Topic: Link element
14:46:01 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0021.html discussion
14:46:03 <SeanP> Francois: Has been discussed multiple times.
14:46:46 <SeanP> ...Aaron is going to say more about this when he has time.
14:47:04 <SeanP> ...LINK element links to alternate representions of a resource.
14:47:22 <SeanP> ...HTML page could link to a handheld version of the page.
14:48:31 <SeanP> ...Problem that is raised is when the handheld version of the page is requested, there is no way to tell if the page is handheld.
14:49:41 <SeanP> ...There is a way to use the LINK element to "kind of link to itself" but I'm not sure this is used in practice.
14:49:46 <SeanP> q+
14:49:51 <francois> ack SeanP
14:51:27 <hgerlach> q+
14:52:39 <hgerlach> -q
14:53:35 <SeanP> Francois: The LINK header come back to life sometime.  Could be used for non HTML pages.
14:54:30 <SeanP> q+
14:54:34 <francois> ack SeanP
14:56:22 <SeanP> Francois: Related to long running issue 222.
14:56:54 <SeanP> ...Jo wanted to make a comment on issue 222.
14:58:45 <SeanP> Sean: Treat LINK element as a redirect to mobile version.
15:00:07 <SeanP> Rob: Tend to agree.
15:00:33 <SeanP> Francois:  Wait until next week to make a resolution on this.
15:01:30 <SeanP> Topic: Cache-Control: no-transform
15:01:45 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0031.html Discussion
15:01:51 <SeanP> Francois: The no-tranform switch needs to be respected.
15:03:24 <SeanP> Francois: Most done on the editorial notes.
15:03:37 <SeanP> ...A few more things we need to agree on.
15:04:00 <SeanP> ...Want to do last call around F2F date.
15:04:31 <SeanP> ...If there is anything else in the document we want to change, now is the time.
15:05:19 <SeanP> ...once it goes to last call, working group should agree and comments should come from the outside.
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15:14:53 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:14:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/27-bpwg-minutes.html francois
15:15:25 <francois> Chair: francois
15:15:31 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:15:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/27-bpwg-minutes.html francois
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