11:00:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #waf
11:00:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-irc
11:00:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #waf
11:00:36 <ArtB> zakim, this is WAF
11:00:36 <Zakim> ArtB, I see IA_WAF(widgets)7:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be WAF".
11:00:39 <marcosbot> marcosbot has joined #waf
11:02:25 <marcosbot> he will and he did
11:02:28 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #waf
11:02:51 <MikeSmith> Zakim, code?
11:02:51 <Zakim> sorry, MikeSmith, I don't know what conference this is
11:03:09 <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng: start meeting
11:03:18 <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng, start meeting
11:03:20 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs member
11:03:22 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be WAF
11:03:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng, I see IA_WAF(widgets)7:00AM already started
11:03:23 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: Web Application Formats Working Group Teleconference
11:03:23 <trackbot-ng> Date: 22 May 2008
11:03:25 <arve> ArtB: will call in RSN
11:03:26 <MikeSmith> Zakim, code?
11:03:26 <Zakim> the conference code is 9231 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MikeSmith
11:03:53 <MikeSmith> ArtB: if you do "trackbot-ng, start meeting" it takes care of all other setup for you
11:04:00 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-appformats/2008May/0010.html
11:04:50 <Zakim> +??P3
11:04:59 <MikeSmith> Zakim, ??P3 is me
11:04:59 <Zakim> +MikeSmith; got it
11:05:00 <ArtB> zakim, ??P1 is Marcos
11:05:00 <Zakim> +Marcos; got it
11:05:27 <ArtB> Present: Art, Marcos, Mike
11:05:28 <Zakim> +Jaakko
11:05:33 <ArtB> Regrests: Claudio
11:05:46 <ArtB> zakim, jaakko is Arve
11:05:46 <Zakim> +Arve; got it
11:05:54 <MikeSmith> Regrets: Claudio
11:06:23 <ArtB> Present+ Arve
11:06:37 <ArtB> Chair: Art
11:06:40 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
11:06:46 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
11:07:06 <ArtB> Topic: Review Agenda
11:07:16 <ArtB> AB: agenda sent yesterday: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-appformats/2008May/0010.html
11:07:25 <ArtB> ... any comments, suggested changes?
11:07:30 <marcosbot> cool music?
11:08:01 <ArtB> [None]
11:08:07 <ArtB> Topic: Announcements
11:08:14 <ArtB> AB: charter update, Mike?
11:09:10 <ArtB> MS: one comment said we should something related to offline apps but we won't do that
11:09:24 <ArtB> s/should something/should add something/
11:09:50 <ArtB> AB: our Charter expires 31 May
11:10:05 <ArtB> MS: there will be YA extension
11:10:41 <ArtB> MS: one request said cross domain access should be in a separate WG with a short bounded scope
11:10:58 <ArtB> ... not clear how that will be resolved
11:11:28 <ArtB> MS: regarding the location API, likely to put that in a separate WG
11:12:28 <ArtB> MS: expect an annoucement to the AC soon regarding the progress
11:13:18 <ArtB> ... will give the AC another 3 weeks to submit comments
11:13:48 <ArtB> MC: when will this process end? It's been going on for about 7 months!
11:14:15 <ArtB> MS: I don't want to over estimate but it could take about two more months to get everything resolved
11:15:54 <ArtB> ... there could be a high probablity to create a separate WG for the AC work
11:16:02 <ArtB> MC: but the work is mostly done
11:16:14 <ArtB> MS: but there isn't consensus about what should be specified
11:17:03 <ArtB> AB: is the reality, the Team waiting for the July 1-3 AC/XDR meeting to occur before a decision is made?
11:17:12 <ArtB> MS: that hasn't been raised
11:17:20 <ArtB> ... but that could make sense to wait
11:18:46 <ArtB> MS: we will definitely get a charter extension so we can continue to publish documents
11:18:58 <ArtB> Topic: Localization model
11:19:31 <Zakim> +Caroline
11:19:49 <ArtB> AB: we've had comments from Addison Philips and David Clarke
11:19:55 <ArtB> ... what is the status, Marcos?
11:20:05 <ArtB> MC: the comments were very good.
11:20:23 <ArtB> ... Addison has offered to contribute to the model
11:21:01 <ArtB> AB: Mike, do we have to worry about IPR and Addison's contribution?
11:22:03 <ArtB> ... he doesn't work for Yahoo! anymore, AFAIK
11:22:19 <ArtB> ... and they aren't members of WAF WG
11:22:29 <marcos_> MC: he works for Amazon
11:22:48 <marcos_> MC:AFAIK
11:23:26 <ArtB> MS: Addison is an Invited Expert
11:25:59 <ArtB> ACTION Smith talk to Richard Ishida about IPR concerns with Addison Philips directly contributing to the Widgets P-and-C spec
11:26:19 <ArtB> ACTION: Smith talk to Richard Ishida about IPR concerns with Addison Philips directly contributing to the Widgets P-and-C spec
11:26:19 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-177 - Talk to Richard Ishida about IPR concerns with Addison Philips directly contributing to the Widgets P-and-C spec [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2008-05-29].
11:26:35 <marcos_> He said "(personal comments follow)"
11:27:33 <ArtB> MS: we need to be careful when people working for a company say "I'm just commenting as a citizen, not as a representative of my employer"
11:27:51 <ArtB> AB: I agree with Mike
11:28:23 <ArtB> ... I am a very poor judge about "what is patentable?"
11:28:48 <ArtB> MS: agree; that's why I'll pursue this; should have some relevant feedback on this issue by our next Voice Conf
11:29:50 <ArtB> MC: David Clarke proposed a slightly different model
11:30:03 <ArtB> ... I responded it's a bit complicated
11:30:34 <ArtB> ... It's a good idea, I just don't think we want to do what he suggests
11:31:22 <ArtB> zakim, Caroline is Benoit
11:31:22 <Zakim> +Benoit; got it
11:31:27 <ArtB> Presen+ Benoit
11:31:39 <MikeSmith> Present+ Benoit
11:32:50 <ArtB> AB: I thought Marcos' response to David Clarke made sense and I support it
11:32:55 <ArtB> ... anyone else?
11:33:02 <ArtB> [None]
11:33:28 <ArtB> Topic: Auto Update
11:33:39 <ArtB> AB: comment from Michael Davey
11:33:58 <ArtB> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-appformats/2008May/0021.html
11:34:14 <ArtB> MC: I told him the existing model is quite old and needs to be updated
11:34:48 <ArtB> AB: auto update is important but we don't have any new proposals
11:35:01 <ArtB> MC: I can create an updated model
11:35:10 <ArtB> ... we can leverage quite a bit from HTTP
11:35:25 <ArtB> BS: I think we should continue to work on it
11:35:43 <ArtB> ABe: agree we should continue; would go so far as to say it should be required
11:36:13 <ArtB> ACTION: Barstow send a link to Nokia Widget solution for updates
11:36:13 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-178 - Send a link to Nokia Widget solution for updates [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-05-29].
11:37:40 <ArtB> AB: I found the document: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/How-to_create_self-updating_WRT_widgets
11:37:54 <ArtB> Topic: P&C Feedback
11:38:06 <ArtB> AB: Michael Davey submitted some comments
11:38:30 <ArtB> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-appformats/2008May/0022.html
11:38:56 <ArtB> MC: I responded to all of Michael's comments
11:39:35 <ArtB> ... I'm concerned about the Java model because it introduces a business model I'm not comfortable with
11:40:21 <ArtB> AB: any comments on Marcos' response?
11:41:20 <ArtB> ABe: I think some of what David proposed is more related to an implemenation detail and should be codified in the spec
11:41:36 <ArtB> BS: yes I tend to agree; could have some non-normative text, perhaps
11:41:59 <ArtB> MS: I think Marcos' response was good; don't want to add any new hurdles for the developers
11:42:24 <ArtB> MC: the second comment was about making the config file the first file in the ZIP
11:42:55 <ArtB> ... but that would require a special too; it also would affect the L10N model where an widget resource can have multiple config files
11:43:34 <ArtB> AB: anything else from Michael's comments?
11:43:37 <ArtB> MC: no
11:43:56 <ArtB> Topic: Media type registration
11:44:22 <ArtB> AB: we talked about this in Dublin but want to understand what needs to be done
11:44:46 <ArtB> ... Marcos, do you need some help?
11:45:22 <ArtB> MC: if someone wants to help, that'd be good
11:45:32 <MikeSmith> q+ to comment on media-type reg.
11:45:42 <ArtB> AB: I can help or find someone in Nokia to help
11:45:55 <ArtB> MC: the security considerations section is open
11:46:35 <ArtB> Topic: Widget URI scheme
11:46:46 <MikeSmith> q-
11:46:55 <ArtB> AB: we now have a section in the P&C spec about the Widget URI scheme
11:47:11 <ArtB> ... http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/#the-widget1
11:47:50 <ArtB> MC: could be helpful in cross-Widget communication
11:48:10 <ArtB> ABe: also can be useful with DOM attributes
11:48:25 <ArtB> ... need to specify syntax constraints
11:49:35 <ArtB> ... Think requiring UUIDs is overkill; that should be an implemenation detail
11:50:07 <ArtB> ... The main requirement is uniquness and UUIDs are one way to get the uniqueness
11:50:27 <ArtB> MC: we could just say informatively, that UUID is one way to get uniqueness
11:51:30 <marcos_> The current proposal is widget-URI = "widget:" "//" UUID "/" zip-relative-path
11:51:53 <ArtB> MC: think it makes sense to specify something 
11:52:05 <ArtB> ABe: what would be gained?
11:52:14 <ArtB> MC: guarantees a globaly unique identifier
11:52:27 <ArtB> AB: but UUID is not the only way to achieve that
11:52:31 <ArtB> MC: agree
11:52:41 <marcos_> widget-URI = "widget:" "//" random "/" zip-relative-path ?
11:52:50 <ArtB> ABe: yes, hashing could also be used
11:53:06 <ArtB> ... I don't think we need to recommend anything specific
11:53:23 <ArtB> MC: OK, I'll change the wording to something non-Normative
11:53:34 <marcos_> widget-URI = "widget:" "//" random "/"  name-of-widget
11:53:41 <ArtB> ... we may also want the name of the widget to be part of the URI scheme
11:53:59 <ArtB> ABe: I don't see the value in adding the name
11:54:07 <ArtB> ... doesn't really identify the widget
11:54:35 <marcos_> widget://aaaadsfdaa/hello.wgt/image.png
11:54:48 <ArtB> MC: could be useful (see above proposal)
11:55:02 <ArtB> ABe: don't want to add redundant info
11:55:07 <marcos_> widget://aaaadsfdaa/image.png
11:55:12 <ArtB> ... could get name elsewhere
11:55:39 <marcos_> widget://aaaadsfdaa/image.png  <--- this is the final proposal
11:56:11 <ArtB> AB: I think everyone should review this new scheme and submit comments
11:56:48 <ArtB> ... any other comments about this scheme?
11:56:51 <ArtB> [None]
11:57:08 <ArtB> MC: I noticed there is a URI Scheme registrar
11:57:17 <MikeSmith> q+ to comment
11:57:28 <ArtB> .. what do we need to do?
11:57:38 <ArtB> MS: similar to the Media type registration
11:57:44 <ArtB> ... put it into the spec itself
11:58:08 <ArtB> ... then we send it to the right IETF board and ask them for review and approval
11:58:16 <ArtB> MC: OK
11:58:57 <ArtB> MC: I'll put all three proposals on the mail list to get broader feedback
11:59:13 <ArtB> AB: should we include the TAG?
11:59:27 <ArtB> MS: agree; let's get their input earlier rather than later
11:59:38 <ArtB> ... worst case is they say "not in our scope"
12:00:42 <ArtB> AB: this probably means some more work for Marcos
12:00:46 <ArtB> MC: that's OK
12:01:16 <ArtB> Topic: Voice Conf schedule for June, July
12:01:39 <ArtB> AB: do we want to continue weekly calls?
12:01:41 <ArtB> MC: yes
12:01:45 <ArtB> BS: OK
12:02:04 <ArtB> ABe: with summer coming, maybe we want to go every two weeks
12:02:08 <ArtB> MC: OK with me
12:02:32 <ArtB> AB: either way is OK with me
12:03:58 <ArtB> Topic: Next f2f
12:04:11 <ArtB> AB: I gathered quite a bit of data about people
12:04:27 <ArtB> ... prefs but I haven't consolidated that info
12:05:21 <ArtB> BS: and where?
12:05:46 <ArtB> AB: Claudio has stated Telecom Italia can be a host
12:05:56 <ArtB> BS: we can host Paris
12:06:44 <Zakim> -Benoit
12:06:47 <Zakim> -MikeSmith
12:06:50 <Zakim> -Arve
12:07:03 <Zakim> -Marcos
12:07:11 <ArtB> AB: before next VC I will review people's prefs and be ready at the May 29 call with a straw proposal
12:07:19 <ArtB> AB: meeting adjourned
12:07:27 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
12:07:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-minutes.html ArtB
12:07:35 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log public
12:08:48 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
12:08:49 <Zakim> IA_WAF(widgets)7:00AM has ended
12:08:51 <Zakim> Attendees were Art_Barstow, MikeSmith, Marcos, Arve, Benoit
12:09:15 <ArtB> zakim, bye
12:09:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #waf
12:09:23 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
12:09:23 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-actions.rdf :
12:09:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Smith talk to Richard Ishida about IPR concerns with Addison Philips directly contributing to the Widgets P-and-C spec [1]
12:09:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-irc#T11-26-19
12:09:23 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Barstow send a link to Nokia Widget solution for updates [2]
12:09:23 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-irc#T11-36-13