IRC log of waf on 2008-05-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:00:27 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #waf

11:00:27 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-irc

11:00:31 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #waf

11:00:36 [ArtB]

zakim, this is WAF

11:00:36 [Zakim]

ArtB, I see IA_WAF(widgets)7:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be WAF".

11:00:39 [marcosbot]

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11:02:25 [marcosbot]

he will and he did

11:02:28 [MikeSmith]

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11:02:51 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, code?

11:02:51 [Zakim]

sorry, MikeSmith, I don't know what conference this is

11:03:09 [MikeSmith]

trackbot-ng: start meeting

11:03:18 [MikeSmith]

trackbot-ng, start meeting

11:03:20 [trackbot-ng]

RRSAgent, make logs member

11:03:22 [trackbot-ng]

Zakim, this will be WAF

11:03:22 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot-ng, I see IA_WAF(widgets)7:00AM already started

11:03:23 [trackbot-ng]

Meeting: Web Application Formats Working Group Teleconference

11:03:23 [trackbot-ng]

Date: 22 May 2008

11:03:25 [arve]

ArtB: will call in RSN

11:03:26 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, code?

11:03:26 [Zakim]

the conference code is 9231 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MikeSmith

11:03:53 [MikeSmith]

ArtB: if you do "trackbot-ng, start meeting" it takes care of all other setup for you

11:04:00 [ArtB]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-appformats/2008May/0010.html

11:04:50 [Zakim]

+??P3

11:04:59 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, ??P3 is me

11:04:59 [Zakim]

+MikeSmith; got it

11:05:00 [ArtB]

zakim, ??P1 is Marcos

11:05:00 [Zakim]

+Marcos; got it

11:05:27 [ArtB]

Present: Art, Marcos, Mike

11:05:28 [Zakim]

+Jaakko

11:05:33 [ArtB]

Regrests: Claudio

11:05:46 [ArtB]

zakim, jaakko is Arve

11:05:46 [Zakim]

+Arve; got it

11:05:54 [MikeSmith]

Regrets: Claudio

11:06:23 [ArtB]

Present+ Arve

11:06:37 [ArtB]

Chair: Art

11:06:40 [ArtB]

Scribe: Art

11:06:46 [ArtB]

ScribeNick: ArtB

11:07:06 [ArtB]

Topic: Review Agenda

11:07:16 [ArtB]

AB: agenda sent yesterday: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-appformats/2008May/0010.html

11:07:25 [ArtB]

... any comments, suggested changes?

11:07:30 [marcosbot]

cool music?

11:08:01 [ArtB]

[None]

11:08:07 [ArtB]

Topic: Announcements

11:08:14 [ArtB]

AB: charter update, Mike?

11:09:10 [ArtB]

MS: one comment said we should something related to offline apps but we won't do that

11:09:24 [ArtB]

s/should something/should add something/

11:09:50 [ArtB]

AB: our Charter expires 31 May

11:10:05 [ArtB]

MS: there will be YA extension

11:10:41 [ArtB]

MS: one request said cross domain access should be in a separate WG with a short bounded scope

11:10:58 [ArtB]

... not clear how that will be resolved

11:11:28 [ArtB]

MS: regarding the location API, likely to put that in a separate WG

11:12:28 [ArtB]

MS: expect an annoucement to the AC soon regarding the progress

11:13:18 [ArtB]

... will give the AC another 3 weeks to submit comments

11:13:48 [ArtB]

MC: when will this process end? It's been going on for about 7 months!

11:14:15 [ArtB]

MS: I don't want to over estimate but it could take about two more months to get everything resolved

11:15:54 [ArtB]

... there could be a high probablity to create a separate WG for the AC work

11:16:02 [ArtB]

MC: but the work is mostly done

11:16:14 [ArtB]

MS: but there isn't consensus about what should be specified

11:17:03 [ArtB]

AB: is the reality, the Team waiting for the July 1-3 AC/XDR meeting to occur before a decision is made?

11:17:12 [ArtB]

MS: that hasn't been raised

11:17:20 [ArtB]

... but that could make sense to wait

11:18:46 [ArtB]

MS: we will definitely get a charter extension so we can continue to publish documents

11:18:58 [ArtB]

Topic: Localization model

11:19:31 [Zakim]

+Caroline

11:19:49 [ArtB]

AB: we've had comments from Addison Philips and David Clarke

11:19:55 [ArtB]

... what is the status, Marcos?

11:20:05 [ArtB]

MC: the comments were very good.

11:20:23 [ArtB]

... Addison has offered to contribute to the model

11:21:01 [ArtB]

AB: Mike, do we have to worry about IPR and Addison's contribution?

11:22:03 [ArtB]

... he doesn't work for Yahoo! anymore, AFAIK

11:22:19 [ArtB]

... and they aren't members of WAF WG

11:22:29 [marcos_]

MC: he works for Amazon

11:22:48 [marcos_]

MC:AFAIK

11:23:26 [ArtB]

MS: Addison is an Invited Expert

11:25:59 [ArtB]

ACTION Smith talk to Richard Ishida about IPR concerns with Addison Philips directly contributing to the Widgets P-and-C spec

11:26:19 [ArtB]

ACTION: Smith talk to Richard Ishida about IPR concerns with Addison Philips directly contributing to the Widgets P-and-C spec

11:26:19 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-177 - Talk to Richard Ishida about IPR concerns with Addison Philips directly contributing to the Widgets P-and-C spec [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2008-05-29].

11:26:35 [marcos_]

He said "(personal comments follow)"

11:27:33 [ArtB]

MS: we need to be careful when people working for a company say "I'm just commenting as a citizen, not as a representative of my employer"

11:27:51 [ArtB]

AB: I agree with Mike

11:28:23 [ArtB]

... I am a very poor judge about "what is patentable?"

11:28:48 [ArtB]

MS: agree; that's why I'll pursue this; should have some relevant feedback on this issue by our next Voice Conf

11:29:50 [ArtB]

MC: David Clarke proposed a slightly different model

11:30:03 [ArtB]

... I responded it's a bit complicated

11:30:34 [ArtB]

... It's a good idea, I just don't think we want to do what he suggests

11:31:22 [ArtB]

zakim, Caroline is Benoit

11:31:22 [Zakim]

+Benoit; got it

11:31:27 [ArtB]

Presen+ Benoit

11:31:39 [MikeSmith]

Present+ Benoit

11:32:50 [ArtB]

AB: I thought Marcos' response to David Clarke made sense and I support it

11:32:55 [ArtB]

... anyone else?

11:33:02 [ArtB]

[None]

11:33:28 [ArtB]

Topic: Auto Update

11:33:39 [ArtB]

AB: comment from Michael Davey

11:33:58 [ArtB]

... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-appformats/2008May/0021.html

11:34:14 [ArtB]

MC: I told him the existing model is quite old and needs to be updated

11:34:48 [ArtB]

AB: auto update is important but we don't have any new proposals

11:35:01 [ArtB]

MC: I can create an updated model

11:35:10 [ArtB]

... we can leverage quite a bit from HTTP

11:35:25 [ArtB]

BS: I think we should continue to work on it

11:35:43 [ArtB]

ABe: agree we should continue; would go so far as to say it should be required

11:36:13 [ArtB]

ACTION: Barstow send a link to Nokia Widget solution for updates

11:36:13 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-178 - Send a link to Nokia Widget solution for updates [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-05-29].

11:37:40 [ArtB]

AB: I found the document: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/How-to_create_self-updating_WRT_widgets

11:37:54 [ArtB]

Topic: P&C Feedback

11:38:06 [ArtB]

AB: Michael Davey submitted some comments

11:38:30 [ArtB]

... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-appformats/2008May/0022.html

11:38:56 [ArtB]

MC: I responded to all of Michael's comments

11:39:35 [ArtB]

... I'm concerned about the Java model because it introduces a business model I'm not comfortable with

11:40:21 [ArtB]

AB: any comments on Marcos' response?

11:41:20 [ArtB]

ABe: I think some of what David proposed is more related to an implemenation detail and should be codified in the spec

11:41:36 [ArtB]

BS: yes I tend to agree; could have some non-normative text, perhaps

11:41:59 [ArtB]

MS: I think Marcos' response was good; don't want to add any new hurdles for the developers

11:42:24 [ArtB]

MC: the second comment was about making the config file the first file in the ZIP

11:42:55 [ArtB]

... but that would require a special too; it also would affect the L10N model where an widget resource can have multiple config files

11:43:34 [ArtB]

AB: anything else from Michael's comments?

11:43:37 [ArtB]

MC: no

11:43:56 [ArtB]

Topic: Media type registration

11:44:22 [ArtB]

AB: we talked about this in Dublin but want to understand what needs to be done

11:44:46 [ArtB]

... Marcos, do you need some help?

11:45:22 [ArtB]

MC: if someone wants to help, that'd be good

11:45:32 [MikeSmith]

q+ to comment on media-type reg.

11:45:42 [ArtB]

AB: I can help or find someone in Nokia to help

11:45:55 [ArtB]

MC: the security considerations section is open

11:46:35 [ArtB]

Topic: Widget URI scheme

11:46:46 [MikeSmith]

q-

11:46:55 [ArtB]

AB: we now have a section in the P&C spec about the Widget URI scheme

11:47:11 [ArtB]

... http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/#the-widget1

11:47:50 [ArtB]

MC: could be helpful in cross-Widget communication

11:48:10 [ArtB]

ABe: also can be useful with DOM attributes

11:48:25 [ArtB]

... need to specify syntax constraints

11:49:35 [ArtB]

... Think requiring UUIDs is overkill; that should be an implemenation detail

11:50:07 [ArtB]

... The main requirement is uniquness and UUIDs are one way to get the uniqueness

11:50:27 [ArtB]

MC: we could just say informatively, that UUID is one way to get uniqueness

11:51:30 [marcos_]

The current proposal is widget-URI = "widget:" "//" UUID "/" zip-relative-path

11:51:53 [ArtB]

MC: think it makes sense to specify something

11:52:05 [ArtB]

ABe: what would be gained?

11:52:14 [ArtB]

MC: guarantees a globaly unique identifier

11:52:27 [ArtB]

AB: but UUID is not the only way to achieve that

11:52:31 [ArtB]

MC: agree

11:52:41 [marcos_]

widget-URI = "widget:" "//" random "/" zip-relative-path ?

11:52:50 [ArtB]

ABe: yes, hashing could also be used

11:53:06 [ArtB]

... I don't think we need to recommend anything specific

11:53:23 [ArtB]

MC: OK, I'll change the wording to something non-Normative

11:53:34 [marcos_]

widget-URI = "widget:" "//" random "/" name-of-widget

11:53:41 [ArtB]

... we may also want the name of the widget to be part of the URI scheme

11:53:59 [ArtB]

ABe: I don't see the value in adding the name

11:54:07 [ArtB]

... doesn't really identify the widget

11:54:35 [marcos_]

widget://aaaadsfdaa/hello.wgt/image.png

11:54:48 [ArtB]

MC: could be useful (see above proposal)

11:55:02 [ArtB]

ABe: don't want to add redundant info

11:55:07 [marcos_]

widget://aaaadsfdaa/image.png

11:55:12 [ArtB]

... could get name elsewhere

11:55:39 [marcos_]

widget://aaaadsfdaa/image.png <--- this is the final proposal

11:56:11 [ArtB]

AB: I think everyone should review this new scheme and submit comments

11:56:48 [ArtB]

... any other comments about this scheme?

11:56:51 [ArtB]

[None]

11:57:08 [ArtB]

MC: I noticed there is a URI Scheme registrar

11:57:17 [MikeSmith]

q+ to comment

11:57:28 [ArtB]

.. what do we need to do?

11:57:38 [ArtB]

MS: similar to the Media type registration

11:57:44 [ArtB]

... put it into the spec itself

11:58:08 [ArtB]

... then we send it to the right IETF board and ask them for review and approval

11:58:16 [ArtB]

MC: OK

11:58:57 [ArtB]

MC: I'll put all three proposals on the mail list to get broader feedback

11:59:13 [ArtB]

AB: should we include the TAG?

11:59:27 [ArtB]

MS: agree; let's get their input earlier rather than later

11:59:38 [ArtB]

... worst case is they say "not in our scope"

12:00:42 [ArtB]

AB: this probably means some more work for Marcos

12:00:46 [ArtB]

MC: that's OK

12:01:16 [ArtB]

Topic: Voice Conf schedule for June, July

12:01:39 [ArtB]

AB: do we want to continue weekly calls?

12:01:41 [ArtB]

MC: yes

12:01:45 [ArtB]

BS: OK

12:02:04 [ArtB]

ABe: with summer coming, maybe we want to go every two weeks

12:02:08 [ArtB]

MC: OK with me

12:02:32 [ArtB]

AB: either way is OK with me

12:03:58 [ArtB]

Topic: Next f2f

12:04:11 [ArtB]

AB: I gathered quite a bit of data about people

12:04:27 [ArtB]

... prefs but I haven't consolidated that info

12:05:21 [ArtB]

BS: and where?

12:05:46 [ArtB]

AB: Claudio has stated Telecom Italia can be a host

12:05:56 [ArtB]

BS: we can host Paris

12:06:44 [Zakim]

-Benoit

12:06:47 [Zakim]

-MikeSmith

12:06:50 [Zakim]

-Arve

12:07:03 [Zakim]

-Marcos

12:07:11 [ArtB]

AB: before next VC I will review people's prefs and be ready at the May 29 call with a straw proposal

12:07:19 [ArtB]

AB: meeting adjourned

12:07:27 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make minutes

12:07:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-minutes.html ArtB

12:07:35 [ArtB]

RRSAgent, make log public

12:08:48 [Zakim]

-Art_Barstow

12:08:49 [Zakim]

IA_WAF(widgets)7:00AM has ended

12:08:51 [Zakim]

Attendees were Art_Barstow, MikeSmith, Marcos, Arve, Benoit

12:09:15 [ArtB]

zakim, bye

12:09:15 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #waf

12:09:23 [ArtB]

rrsagent, bye

12:09:23 [RRSAgent]

I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-actions.rdf :

12:09:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Smith talk to Richard Ishida about IPR concerns with Addison Philips directly contributing to the Widgets P-and-C spec [1]

12:09:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-irc#T11-26-19

12:09:23 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Barstow send a link to Nokia Widget solution for updates [2]

12:09:23 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-waf-irc#T11-36-13