13:32:36 RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:32:36 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-irc
13:32:53 RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0040.html
13:33:32 Zakim, this will be XHTML2
13:33:32 ok, RolandMerrick; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:34:23 Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:35:03 Chair: Roland
13:35:22 rrsagent, make minutes
13:35:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
13:35:36 rrsagent, make log public
13:35:59 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0040.html
13:38:01 Tina has joined #xhtml
13:38:16 Regrets: Yam
13:38:25 rrsagent, make minutes
13:38:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
13:42:35 IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:42:42 +Roland
13:42:52 alessio has joined #xhtml
13:44:28 Hi all! today I'm at home so I could connect on IRC too...
13:46:02 ShaneM has joined #xhtml
13:48:08 zakim, code?
13:48:08 the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven
13:48:42 +ShaneM
13:48:55 +Steven
13:49:14 +??P3
13:49:25 zakim, ??P3 is Alessio
13:49:25 +Alessio; got it
13:53:49 Scribe: Steven
13:54:13 Steven: I think Mark is travelling to the USA
13:54:29 Topic: Reviews
13:54:43 Steven: The XML Base review is at the bottom of my todo list at the moment
13:54:48 Topic: FtF
13:55:15 Roland: The FtF will be a virtual one. I will send out details of times
13:55:23 Topic: CURIEs
13:55:32 Roland: Is in last call; any comments yet?
13:56:38 Steven: I got a message the RIF group plans to use CURIE-s in their next charter for what they call presentation syntax. This is not a XML based syntax at all""
13:57:23 http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_Working_Group
13:57:40 Topic: Role
13:57:48 RolandL We have completed second last call
13:57:54 s/L/:/
13:58:15 Roland: Shane, you have proposed workding as a response to SVG?
13:58:18 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0050.html
13:58:20 Shane: Yes
13:59:20 ... SVG want more roles that map to text like properties
13:59:35 ... I propose we politely decline
13:59:51 ... and let them put it in their space if they want it
14:00:04 ... 'cos that's what CURIEs are for
14:00:18 ... Mark says that there is an intention that we map elements into roles
14:00:45 ... great discussion to have, but I don't think that needs to be part of our respnse
14:01:11 Roland: Agree
14:01:17 Alessio: Yes
14:01:36 Roland: We disagree that we should add more predefined roles into our space
14:01:58 Steven: Sounds right. I agree with the CURIE comment
14:02:22 Shane: But they can talk to the WAI people if they want
14:03:13 ROland: Al asked where the normative definition is
14:03:18 s/RO/Ro/
14:03:28 Roland: I would prefer it to be in the vocab spec
14:03:54 Steven: But is the vocab spec normative? I thought not
14:04:01 ROland: I would prefer it to be
14:04:06 s/RO/Ro/
14:05:00 Roland: Everyone OK with SHane's response
14:05:02 Steven: Yes
14:05:08 s/SH/Sh/
14:05:27 Shane: In section 3
14:05:30 http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-xhtml-role-20080407/#s_role_module_attributes
14:05:59 Shane: we list some values in our space
14:06:20 ... SVG WG says "don't list some"
14:06:33 ... either make it a complete list or make the section informative
14:07:00 Roland: Fair comment
14:07:02 Shane: Agree
14:07:34 Roland: We can just have some examples of it being used here
14:07:51 ... and could include CURIE properties as well
14:07:58 true
14:08:40 Roland: We need to start the vocab doc as a rec track spec
14:11:12 Steven: If we want to make it normative,then it has to be
14:11:24 s/,t/, t/
14:12:19 Steven: But if role refers to vocab, then they have to be in lockstep
14:12:36 Shane: I disagree with you ROland
14:12:51 ... I think that that would work, but that it is not necessary, and a bit heavy weight
14:12:56 s/RO/Ro/
14:13:26 Shane: Role is an enabling technology, that uses CURIEs, and we say in XHTML that the default prefix points to the XHTML vocab space
14:13:37 ... for all XHTML CURIEs
14:14:07 ... it is fine if we remove values from teh vocab space from the role spec
14:14:52 ... if we remove tham and then make it dependent on another rec track spec, that is a mixture of our and WAI stuff, then I think it will unnecessarily impede role
14:15:27 Roland: So the scope of the role spec is an attribute that allows values to come from different places, and therefore the spec says nothing about those values
14:15:41 ... so we refer from our vocab space to role, but not vice versa
14:15:54 Steven: I agree
14:16:05 me too
14:17:00 Roland: So the role spec only illustrates the use of values, but doesn't define any
14:17:13 Steven: Sounds good
14:17:38 Shane: I think SVG WG would be happy with that too, but we need to send the response to be sure
14:18:55 ... I'll reword my response to reflect that
14:19:17 Roland: Will you please reply to Al along those lines as well?
14:19:19 Shane: Sure
14:19:36 ACTION: Shane to reply to Al about the relationship between Role and Vocab specs
14:19:52 ACTION: SHane to reply to SVG on role
14:19:56 s/SH/Sh/
14:20:05 Shane: Then I think that we can transition to CR
14:20:32 ... we need to figure out the exit criteria for this and access
14:20:54 ... and the relationship to M12N 1.1
14:21:05 ... Ithink Access has a dependency, but not role
14:21:15 s/Ithink/I think/
14:21:29 Topic: M12N transition status
14:21:53 Roland: We have a transition call scheduled for 30th May
14:25:54 Steven: So we need to decide about exit criteria, and to what extent we haven't already achieved them
14:27:17 The last CR had these:
14:27:17 W3C is looking for testimonials from users of this specification. Additionally, experience using all of the modules is being sought to create a coverage table of the use of each module. These two criteria are needed to advance this specification to "Proposed Recommendation".
14:27:17
14:27:17 Major changes in this version include:
14:27:18
14:27:20 * Re-integration of the Building document into this document
14:27:22 * Incorporation of the Henry Thompson/Dan Connolly XML Namespace handling process with substantial additions by the Math and HTML working groups
14:27:25 * Complete worked examples including modules and miniature DTDs.
14:27:27 * Minor restructuring of abstract module definitions, including the creation of a "style attribute module", a "name identification module" and a "target" module.
14:27:30 * Tweaking of some of the module contents based on review comments
14:30:30 Shane: We should create a table of usage of the modules like we did for V1.0
14:30:52 Steven: Mark's language xh uses them
14:31:22 Roland: Our first objective is to achieve CR
14:31:35 ..., if we achieve that then we can talk about whether we have already reached PR
14:35:03 Steven: We also need to remind them about the history:
14:35:15 ... V1 was with DTDs and an empty appendix for schemas
14:35:37 ... we produced the schemas independently, and wanted to merge the two specs as a PER, but got push back
14:35:45 ... so were asked to renumber
14:36:11 ... but really it is like the DOM with a binding for, say, javascript, and then we add a binding for, say, Python
14:36:15 ... nothing has changed
14:36:25 ... it really is the same version
14:36:59 Roland: We'll do a checkpoint next Wednesday
14:38:19 Topic: Response to TAG on Media types
14:38:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0065.html
14:38:59 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0067.html
14:40:17 Shane: I made the case privately to Noah that we don't believe the media type needs changing
14:40:26 ... which is consistent with your wording Steven
14:41:35 Steven: My reply says that the XHTML spec says what you can do with it
14:41:40 ... not the media type
14:43:04 Shane: I asked them personally what they think, since TIm believes it's OK, but I don't know what the TAG as a whole thinks
14:43:41 Steven: So do we send the message?
14:44:17 Shane: Since you are responding to the document, that section talks about HTML, I think we should tell them that it is about XHTML
14:44:45 ... if they say yes, but we want it to work for HTML too, that's fine, because that's not on opur charter
14:44:51 s/opur/our/
14:44:57 ROland: I agree
14:45:03 s/RO/Ro/
14:45:12 +1
14:45:17 ACTION: Steven to send TAG response, with addition of XHTML comment
14:45:39 Topic: Document cahracter set
14:46:55 s/cahracter/character/
14:47:14 Shane: Could you Steven send references to the fact that all HTML and XML docs are in Unicode
14:47:17 Steven: Yes
14:47:18 -ShaneM
14:47:26 -Roland
14:47:28 -Steven
14:47:29 -Alessio
14:47:29 IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:47:32 Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Steven, Alessio
14:47:35 ACTION: Steven to send a reference to Unicode as document character set
14:48:36 Present+Tina
14:48:44 rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:49:01 about the