IRC log of owl on 2008-05-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:57:52 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #owl
16:57:52 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-owl-irc
16:57:56 [bmotik]: Zakim, who is on call
16:57:56 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is on call', bmotik
16:58:12 [Rinke]: Zakim, this is owl
16:58:12 [Zakim]: Rinke, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be owl".
16:58:25 [Rinke]: zakim, this is owlwg
16:58:25 [Zakim]: Rinke, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be owlwg".
16:58:55 [IanH]: zakim, this will be owl
16:58:55 [Zakim]: ok, IanH, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM already started
16:59:34 [Zakim]: +Evan_Wallace
17:00:05 [Rinke]: zakim, who is here?
17:00:05 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P12, Evan_Wallace
17:00:06 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ewallace, bmotik, IanH, baojie, sandro, JeffP, Rinke, trackbot-ng
17:00:10 [MarkusK]: MarkusK has joined #owl
17:00:17 [bmotik]: Zakim, ??P12 is me
17:00:17 [Zakim]: +bmotik; got it
17:00:23 [bmotik]: Zakim, mute me
17:00:23 [Zakim]: bmotik should now be muted
17:00:24 [Zhe]: Zhe has joined #owl
17:00:37 [Zakim]: +Sandro
17:01:05 [Zakim]: + +22427aaaa
17:01:15 [Zakim]: + +7.233.aabb
17:01:20 [JeffP]: Zakim, aaaa is me
17:01:20 [Zakim]: +JeffP; got it
17:01:25 [Rinke]: Zakim, aabb is me
17:01:25 [Zakim]: +Rinke; got it
17:01:36 [Rinke]: zakim, mute me
17:01:36 [Zakim]: Rinke should now be muted
17:01:59 [Zakim]: + +1.603.897.aacc
17:02:11 [Zakim]: + +0186527aadd
17:02:12 [Zhe]: Zakim, +1.603.897.aacc is me
17:02:13 [Zakim]: +Zhe; got it
17:02:18 [Zakim]: + +1.518.276.aaee
17:02:26 [bcuencagrau]: bcuencagrau has joined #owl
17:02:29 [uli]: uli has joined #owl
17:02:30 [baojie]: Zakim aaee is baojie
17:02:43 [baojie]: Zakim, aaee is baojie
17:02:43 [Zakim]: +baojie; got it
17:02:52 [jeremy_]: jeremy_ has joined #owl
17:03:03 [IanH]: zakim, aadd is me
17:03:03 [Zakim]: +IanH; got it
17:03:07 [Zakim]: +??P24
17:03:12 [IanH]: zakim, who is here?
17:03:12 [Zakim]: On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Evan_Wallace, Sandro, JeffP, Rinke (muted), Zhe, IanH, baojie, ??P24
17:03:15 [Zakim]: On IRC I see jeremy_, uli, bcuencagrau, Zhe, MarkusK, RRSAgent, Zakim, ewallace, bmotik, IanH, baojie, sandro, JeffP, Rinke, trackbot-ng
17:03:29 [jeremy_]: zakim, +??P24 is jeremy
17:03:29 [Zakim]: sorry, jeremy_, I do not recognize a party named '+??P24'
17:03:31 [Zakim]: +??P26
17:03:32 [Zakim]: +Alan
17:03:38 [bcuencagrau]: Zakim, ??P26 is me
17:03:38 [Zakim]: +bcuencagrau; got it
17:03:48 [bcuencagrau]: Zakim, mute me
17:03:48 [Zakim]: bcuencagrau should now be muted
17:03:52 [bmotik_]: bmotik_ has joined #owl
17:03:55 [alanr]: alanr has joined #owl
17:03:58 [IanH]: zakim, who is here?
17:03:58 [Zakim]: On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Evan_Wallace, Sandro, JeffP, Rinke (muted), Zhe, IanH, baojie, ??P24, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan
17:03:58 [jeremy_]: zakim, ??P24 is me
17:04:00 [Zakim]: On IRC I see alanr, bmotik_, jeremy_, uli, bcuencagrau, Zhe, MarkusK, RRSAgent, Zakim, ewallace, bmotik, IanH, baojie, sandro, JeffP, Rinke, trackbot-ng
17:04:02 [Zakim]: +jeremy_; got it
17:04:06 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
17:04:29 [jeremycarroll]: zakim, jeremy_ is jeremycarroll
17:04:29 [Zakim]: +jeremycarroll; got it
17:04:54 [IanH]: zakim, who is here?
17:04:57 [alanr]: alanr has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.05.21/Agenda
17:05:02 [Zakim]: On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Evan_Wallace, Sandro, JeffP, Rinke (muted), Zhe, IanH, baojie, jeremycarroll, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MarkusK
17:05:09 [JeffP]: Topic: ADMIN (20 min)
17:05:15 [Zakim]: On IRC I see alanr, bmotik_, jeremycarroll, uli, bcuencagrau, Zhe, MarkusK, RRSAgent, Zakim, ewallace, bmotik, IanH, baojie, sandro, JeffP, Rinke, trackbot-ng
17:05:23 [sandro]: RRSAgent, pointer?
17:05:23 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-owl-irc#T17-05-23
17:05:26 [jeremycarroll]: q-
17:05:34 [Zakim]: +??P2
17:05:41 [uli]: zakim, mute me
17:05:46 [Zakim]: sorry, uli, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
17:05:50 [JeffP]: Topic: Agenda amendments?
17:06:00 [Zakim]: +??P3
17:06:21 [JeffP]: PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (07 May)
17:06:29 [jeremycarroll]: q+
17:06:30 [bijan]: bijan has joined #owl
17:06:33 [uli]: zakim, ??P2 is me
17:06:33 [Zakim]: +uli; got it
17:06:36 [uli]: zakim, mute me
17:06:36 [Zakim]: uli should now be muted
17:06:39 [JeffP]: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.05.07/Minutes
17:06:44 [bijan]: zakim, who is here?
17:06:44 [Zakim]: On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Evan_Wallace, Sandro, JeffP, Rinke (muted), Zhe, IanH, baojie, jeremycarroll, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MarkusK, uli (muted), ??P3
17:06:47 [Zakim]: On IRC I see bijan, alanr, bmotik, jeremycarroll, uli, bcuencagrau, Zhe, MarkusK, RRSAgent, Zakim, ewallace, IanH, baojie, sandro, JeffP, Rinke, trackbot-ng
17:06:53 [bijan]: zakim, ??P3 is me
17:06:53 [Zakim]: +bijan; got it
17:07:00 [bijan]: I have!
17:07:15 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
17:07:15 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
17:07:39 [Rinke]: Peter told me they were ok
17:07:53 [alanr]: +1
17:07:56 [baojie]: +1
17:07:57 [Zhe]: +1
17:07:58 [Rinke]: +1
17:07:59 [ewallace]: +1
17:08:02 [uli]: +1
17:08:03 [bijan]: +1
17:08:03 [sandro]: RRSAgent, pointer?
17:08:03 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-owl-irc#T17-08-03-1
17:08:06 [IanH]: +1
17:08:09 [Achille]: Achille has joined #owl
17:08:12 [JeffP]: Minutes accepted
17:08:15 [bcuencagrau]: +1
17:08:43 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
17:09:09 [Achille]: Zakim, IBM is Achille
17:09:09 [Zakim]: +Achille; got it
17:09:12 [JeffP]: Topic: Action items status
17:09:35 [Rinke]: scribenick JeffP
17:09:50 [JeffP]: (thanks, Rinke)
17:10:10 [bijan]: Done!
17:10:34 [JeffP]: Action 129: Done
17:10:47 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:10:47 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
17:12:06 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
17:12:06 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
17:12:43 [JeffP]: Action132: done
17:12:48 [JeffP]: Action133: done
17:13:13 [alanr]: q+
17:13:38 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:13:38 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
17:14:40 [bmotik]: It'll be hard to see the difference w.r.t. subsumption: individuals (anonymous or not) are parts of the ABox and therefore usually don't affect the subsumption.
17:14:44 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
17:14:44 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
17:14:52 [bijan]: bmotik, yeah
17:15:03 [JeffP]: Action142: done
17:15:26 [bmotik]: I actually believe that Bijan's Web page says as much as can be said about the difference between the skolem and nonskolem semantics.
17:15:27 [JeffP]: Action 145: done
17:15:47 [JeffP]: Action 146: done
17:15:55 [JeffP]: Action 149: done
17:16:26 [bijan]: bmotik, I'm certainly drawing a blank :(
17:16:36 [bijan]: +1 to endorsement
17:16:44 [JeffP]: IanH: any comments on Jeremy's review on RIF?
17:16:54 [bijan]: Peter and I responded to his finalized comments with approval
17:17:07 [JeffP]: ... any pointer?
17:17:31 [bijan]: http://www.w3.org/mid/482984E7.4000806@hpl.hp.com
17:17:42 [bijan]: (Pointer to thread where peter and I approve.)
17:17:58 [jeremycarroll]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0085
17:18:09 [ewallace]: I will continue my Syntax doc review for 1 more week
17:18:18 [bmotik]: The only way to show differences in the skolem and nonskolem semantics by means of subsumption is to use ObjectHasValue with anonymous individuals.
17:18:46 [bijan]: bmotik, yes.
17:19:13 [JeffP]: Action 43: continue
17:19:37 [jeremycarroll]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008AprJun/0065
17:19:50 [IanH]: q?
17:20:25 [jeremycarroll]: q-
17:20:41 [bijan]: Off the hook!
17:20:44 [IanH]: ack alanr
17:20:50 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:20:50 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
17:21:14 [JeffP]: Action 43: close
17:21:19 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
17:21:19 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
17:21:22 [JeffP]: Action 139: continue
17:21:34 [JeffP]: Action 143: continue
17:22:02 [JeffP]: Action 112: continue
17:22:12 [ewallace]: I continued the UFDTF action Jeff
17:22:23 [JeffP]: Action 144: close
17:22:58 [JeffP]: Action 147: continue
17:23:18 [alanr]: q+
17:23:28 [JeffP]: IanH: Jeremy's review on RIF
17:23:32 [IanH]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008AprJun/0065
17:23:49 [jeremycarroll]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0085
17:24:01 [JeffP]: alanr: get rid of stuffs that are not related to this WG
17:24:02 [bijan]: Isn't it moot now?
17:24:08 [jeremycarroll]: B) On the editors note, at the end of section 1, we advise that RDF
17:24:08 [jeremycarroll]: entailment is much less interesting than the others (simple, RDFS, D,
17:24:08 [jeremycarroll]: OWL DL, OWL Full), and we would not expect opposition to RIF not
17:24:09 [jeremycarroll]: supporting it.
17:25:01 [JeffP]: IanH: any comments?
17:25:17 [bijan]: I'm indifferent. I think it's harmless to leave it in. Given that its sent and non binding anyway...does it matter?
17:25:29 [JeffP]: Jeremy: ok
17:26:07 [IanH]: q?
17:26:11 [alanr]: ack alanr
17:26:29 [sandro]: PROPOSED: Jeremy's e-mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0085 is official WG view, except point B
17:26:36 [ewallace]: +1
17:26:37 [alanr]: +1
17:26:39 [IanH]: +1
17:26:39 [Rinke]: +1
17:26:40 [bijan]: +1
17:26:42 [JeffP]: +1
17:26:42 [Zhe]: +1
17:26:43 [sandro]: 0
17:26:44 [jeremycarroll]: +1
17:26:55 [uli]: +1
17:27:02 [sandro]: RESOLVED: Jeremy's e-mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0085 is official WG view, except point B
17:27:35 [JeffP]: Topic: Issue 97
17:27:47 [JeffP]: IanH: there is a written proposal from Sandro
17:27:59 [IanH]: q?
17:28:00 [bmotik]: Could Sandro please summarize his proposal?
17:28:30 [JeffP]: pointer?
17:28:44 [sandro]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0118.html
17:29:15 [IanH]: q?
17:29:34 [bijan]: Also worth noting: http://www.w3.org/mid/5.1.1.6.2.20080521083649.0d0fb068@mail.muzmo.com
17:30:49 [JeffP]: IanH: comments?
17:30:53 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:30:53 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
17:31:08 [JeffP]: bijan: agree with sandro in general
17:31:38 [JeffP]: ... GRDDL is not clear what are required though
17:31:59 [JeffP]: ... sandro's proposal is as good as anything else
17:32:01 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
17:32:01 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
17:32:04 [IanH]: q?
17:32:19 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:32:19 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
17:32:22 [JeffP]: IanH: any comments on ording?
17:32:32 [IanH]: q?
17:33:08 [JeffP]: bijan: parallel way is fine as long as it is clear
17:33:27 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
17:33:27 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
17:33:55 [JeffP]: IanH: not asking to come up with implementation might not be proper
17:34:07 [ewallace]: let's move on
17:35:30 [sandro]: PROPOSED: proceed on parallel version of Sandro's suggestion for handling GRDDL ISSUE-97, as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0118.html
17:35:43 [IanH]: +1
17:35:45 [JeffP]: +1
17:35:46 [sandro]: +1 of course :-)
17:35:49 [alanr]: +1
17:35:52 [ewallace]: +1
17:35:55 [Zhe]: +1
17:35:56 [Achille]: +1
17:35:57 [bcuencagrau]: +1
17:35:59 [MarkusK]: +1
17:36:06 [bijan]: +1
17:36:07 [bmotik]: +1
17:36:08 [Rinke]: +1
17:36:10 [uli]: +1
17:36:12 [baojie]: +1
17:36:24 [sandro]: RESOLVED: proceed on parallel version of Sandro's suggestion for handling GRDDL ISSUE-97, as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0118.html
17:36:43 [IanH]: q?
17:36:45 [JeffP]: Topic: Issues (50 minutes) - Address as many as possible during allocated time
17:37:30 [JeffP]: Issue 4 allow reordering in functional syntax, per Alan's email
17:37:46 [JeffP]: IanH: we could resolve this without taking any action
17:38:52 [IanH]: PROPOSED: Issue 4 allow reordering in functional syntax, per Alan's email
17:38:54 [bmotik]: +1
17:38:58 [bcuencagrau]: +1
17:38:59 [IanH]: +1
17:39:01 [baojie]: +1
17:39:06 [JeffP]: +1
17:39:07 [Zhe]: +1
17:39:11 [Rinke]: +1
17:39:12 [MarkusK]: +1
17:39:13 [sandro]: +0 haven't followed, sorry
17:39:15 [bijan]: The proposal is wrong
17:39:18 [alanr]: +1
17:39:45 [bijan]: Close ISSUE 4 per alan's email as rejected
17:39:48 [Rinke]: Alan's email is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0014.html
17:39:50 [IanH]: PROPOSED: resolve Issue 4 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0014.html
17:39:55 [bijan]: Yes
17:39:55 [bmotik]: +1
17:39:56 [jeremycarroll]: 0 (I'm concentrating on the next issue)
17:39:58 [bijan]: +1
17:39:59 [IanH]: +1
17:39:59 [Rinke]: +1
17:39:59 [bcuencagrau]: +1
17:40:03 [JeffP]: +1
17:40:04 [MarkusK]: +1
17:40:05 [Achille]: +1
17:40:06 [baojie]: +1
17:40:06 [uli]: +1
17:40:10 [IanH]: q?
17:40:29 [bijan]: No no
17:40:30 [bijan]: No no
17:40:32 [bijan]: Yes
17:40:45 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:40:45 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
17:40:47 [sandro]: +0 haven't followed this issue, sorry
17:40:53 [alanr]: +1
17:40:55 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
17:40:55 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
17:41:10 [JeffP]: RESOLVED: resolve Issue 4 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0014.html
17:41:11 [IanH]: RESOLVED: resolve Issue 4 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0014.html
17:41:32 [alanr]: q+
17:41:42 [JeffP]: Topic: # Issue 71 Data ranges for literals with Language, per Peter's email
17:41:47 [IanH]: q?
17:42:02 [Rinke]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0019.html
17:42:12 [JeffP]: alanr: some comments from SWCG
17:42:23 [IanH]: q?
17:42:35 [alanr]: ack alanr
17:43:01 [JeffP]: sandro: seems that both OWL and RIF are working this
17:43:07 [IanH]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0089.html
17:43:16 [jeremycarroll]: q+
17:43:27 [IanH]: q?
17:43:28 [alanr]: ack sandro
17:43:30 [alanr]: ack head
17:43:31 [JeffP]: ... which one comes up with a proposal will be the one
17:43:32 [alanr]: ack torso
17:43:35 [alanr]: ack right
17:44:08 [JeffP]: ... need to have a join TF
17:44:16 [JeffP]: alanr: how about name space?
17:44:23 [bijan]: RDF!
17:44:27 [alanr]: +1
17:44:27 [IanH]: q?
17:44:45 [alanr]: rdfs
17:44:55 [JeffP]: sandro: there are some problem of RDF name space
17:45:00 [IanH]: q?
17:45:04 [IanH]: ack
17:45:09 [IanH]: ack jeremycarroll
17:45:35 [sandro]: My message on this subject: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0089.html
17:45:53 [bijan]: q+ for a slight tangent about data uris
17:46:01 [alanr]: yes, i noticed that this is a new pattern syntax. (distinctly not pcre)
17:46:03 [bijan]: q+ to make a slight tangent about data uris
17:46:09 [JeffP]: zakim, who is talking?
17:46:10 [IanH]: q?
17:46:20 [Zakim]: JeffP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (48%), jeremycarroll (77%)
17:46:20 [sandro]: Jeremy: there is a language matching language, which is different from the XML matching language.
17:46:41 [IanH]: he stopped
17:46:47 [IanH]: hope he is still alive
17:47:43 [IanH]: q?
17:48:32 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:48:32 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
17:49:07 [JeffP]: (jeremy, could you summarise your comments please?)
17:49:18 [jeremycarroll]: are you talking about the data: scheme?
17:49:20 [IanH]: q?
17:49:23 [bijan]: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2397
17:49:26 [IanH]: ack bijan
17:49:26 [Zakim]: bijan, you wanted to make a slight tangent about data uris
17:50:11 [jeremycarroll]: q+
17:50:15 [bijan]: q+
17:50:24 [IanH]: q?
17:50:33 [JeffP]: IanH: who else should be in the TF?
17:50:38 [bijan]: boris from owl, peter from RIF :)
17:50:39 [JeffP]: ... besides sandro
17:51:03 [alanr]: q+
17:51:15 [JeffP]: sandro: Boris has been working on the texts
17:51:17 [alanr]: ~
17:51:32 [IanH]: ack jeremycarroll
17:51:36 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:51:36 [Zakim]: bijan was not muted, bijan
17:51:51 [alanr]: swcg harmonization issue
17:52:08 [IanH]: q?
17:52:15 [jeremycarroll]: jeremy: we should invite I18N WG to participate in the TF
17:52:17 [IanH]: ack bijan
17:52:46 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
17:52:46 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
17:52:46 [jeremycarroll]: q+
17:52:50 [IanH]: q?
17:52:52 [sandro]: Bijan: Let's just find an editor or two and have them write something and make sure it's okay with the stakeholders.
17:52:58 [sandro]: +1 Bijan
17:53:01 [JeffP]: IanH: good to keep the process lightweight
17:53:06 [IanH]: q?
17:53:21 [sandro]: ack alanr
17:53:46 [bijan]: If no one else volunteers, I shall, assuming it's roughly as easy as sandro delineated :)
17:53:48 [IanH]: q?
17:54:24 [sandro]: Jeremy: we should invite people like: "You're welcome to join, but you might prefer to review the finished document"
17:54:33 [sandro]: s/people/i18n/
17:54:47 [bijan]: q+
17:54:50 [jeremycarroll]: q-
17:54:51 [IanH]: q?
17:55:08 [JeffP]: sandro: there is a dependency on the XML WG too
17:55:16 [sandro]: s/XML/XML Schema/
17:55:17 [jeremycarroll]: ^XML^XML Schema
17:55:20 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:55:20 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
17:55:21 [IanH]: q?
17:55:22 [JeffP]: IanH: could we agree on bijan's proposal?
17:55:41 [alanr]: Sandro: is OWL 1 issue with closed namespace same as RDF closed namespace issue?
17:55:53 [jeremycarroll]: I'm convinced by sandro's comment - ask stakeholders after we have a doc
17:55:54 [JeffP]: bijan: we could have a TF when people disagree
17:55:58 [IanH]: q?
17:56:02 [IanH]: ack
17:56:08 [bijan]: zakin, mute me
17:56:11 [IanH]: q?
17:56:23 [IanH]: ack bijan
17:56:54 [JeffP]: IanH: who will work on this?
17:57:07 [IanH]: q?
17:57:20 [JeffP]: alanr: we need to work out a solution for the name space
17:57:34 [JeffP]: s/name space/namespace
17:57:48 [JeffP]: sandro: we could leave the namespace as an open issue
17:57:55 [jeremycarroll]: To me the langPattern is an OWL functionality, not an RDF one, whereas the class of all internationalizedstrings is possibly an RDF concept
17:57:55 [bijan]: Conditionally!
17:58:04 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
17:58:04 [Zakim]: bijan was not muted, bijan
17:58:06 [JeffP]: sandro: I heard bijan would like to act on it
17:58:10 [alanr]: RDF/XML: Any other names are not defined and SHOULD generate a warning when encountered, but should otherwise behave normally.
17:58:20 [IanH]: q?
17:58:37 [bmotik]: Zakim, unmute me
17:58:37 [Zakim]: bmotik should no longer be muted
17:59:05 [JeffP]: boris: no opinion on namespace; also busy with other work in the WG
17:59:09 [bmotik]: Zakim, mute me
17:59:09 [Zakim]: bmotik should now be muted
17:59:32 [baojie]: ok
17:59:41 [JeffP]: alanr: anyone on call can work on this?
18:00:06 [jeremycarroll]: I believe the RDF Syntax text is meant to be forward compatible ...
18:00:39 [alanr]: action: baojie edit langed literal document
18:00:39 [trackbot-ng]: Sorry, couldn't find user - baojie
18:00:46 [alanr]: action: jiebao edit langed literal document
18:00:46 [trackbot-ng]: Sorry, couldn't find user - jiebao
18:01:07 [bmotik]: q+
18:01:08 [JeffP]: Topic: # Issue 123 Should we add QCR-s into the rule set of OWL-R-Full/Ivan, per [1]
18:01:35 [bmotik]: Zakim, unmute me
18:01:35 [Zakim]: bmotik should no longer be muted
18:01:36 [IanH]: q?
18:01:41 [IanH]: ack bmotik
18:01:53 [JeffP]: boris: OWL-R-DL support some QCRs
18:02:01 [sandro]: ACTION: Bao create a new document as the spec for owl:internationalizedString / rif:text, including open issue discussion of namespace
18:02:01 [trackbot-ng]: Created ACTION-150 - Create a new document as the spec for owl:internationalizedString / rif:text, including open issue discussion of namespace [on Jie Bao - due 2008-05-28].
18:02:05 [alanr]: action: jie bao to edit langed literal document
18:02:05 [trackbot-ng]: Created ACTION-151 - Bao to edit langed literal document [on Jie Bao - due 2008-05-28].
18:02:34 [IanH]: q?
18:02:39 [alanr]: +1
18:02:42 [bmotik]: Zakim, mute me
18:02:42 [Zakim]: bmotik should now be muted
18:02:52 [Zhe]: +1
18:02:53 [JeffP]: ... OWL-R-Full should cover the same set of features
18:02:56 [bijan]: +1
18:02:59 [uli]: +1
18:03:24 [bijan]: +1 to the editorial gerrymander
18:03:48 [JeffP]: .Action 123: done
18:03:59 [JeffP]: Topic: # Issue 111 User intent signalling (other than via mime type) see Sandro's email
18:04:12 [JeffP]: http://www.w3.org/mid/6098.1208894358@ubuhebe
18:04:35 [bmotik]: We might want to take up imports and versioning today out-of-order. This is a fresh issue that, given the recent discussion, might be gotten out of the way quickly.
18:04:46 [bijan]: q+
18:04:51 [IanH]: q?
18:04:55 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
18:04:55 [Zakim]: bijan was not muted, bijan
18:05:15 [JeffP]: bijan: the processing model is unclear
18:05:20 [IanH]: q?
18:05:26 [IanH]: ack bijan
18:05:43 [alanr]: 123 has been updated to be editorial. boris, feel free to close
18:05:46 [alanr]: q+ alanr
18:05:50 [JeffP]: ... adding more properties without semantics is worrying
18:06:04 [sandro]: my e-mail about it: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Apr/0265.html
18:06:10 [JeffP]: Issue 123: close
18:06:14 [IanH]: q?
18:06:24 [IanH]: ack alanr
18:06:26 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
18:06:26 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
18:06:30 [JeffP]: alanr: tend to agree with bijan
18:07:05 [IanH]: q?
18:07:12 [JeffP]: ... not sure what to do with imports
18:07:13 [bmotik]: q+
18:07:21 [bmotik]: Zakim, unmute me
18:07:21 [Zakim]: bmotik should no longer be muted
18:07:27 [IanH]: ack bmotik
18:07:30 [IanH]: q?
18:07:43 [bijan]: q+
18:07:54 [IanH]: q?
18:07:54 [JeffP]: boris: signal to tools are not needed
18:08:31 [alanr]: what if it says nothing but imported one says something
18:08:33 [IanH]: q?
18:09:02 [bmotik]: Zakim, mute me
18:09:02 [Zakim]: bmotik should now be muted
18:09:04 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
18:09:04 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
18:09:18 [sandro]: q+ to reply to Boris about "it's just a syntax error" to give DL to an EL++ system --- of course you want to give the user a better error message, don't you?
18:09:23 [sandro]: ack bijan
18:09:25 [IanH]: q?
18:09:33 [JeffP]: bijan: useful to distinguish DL and Full semantics
18:10:10 [JeffP]: ... also might be useful in some use cases
18:10:10 [IanH]: q?
18:10:13 [bmotik]: Sandro, sure; however, my point is that this is defined by the syntax itself. There is no need to say "this ontology should be interpreted as EL++": if it falls into the EL++ fragment, it is an EL++ ontology.
18:10:26 [sandro]: ack sandro
18:10:26 [Zakim]: sandro, you wanted to reply to Boris about "it's just a syntax error" to give DL to an EL++ system --- of course you want to give the user a better error message, don't you?
18:10:27 [uli]: q+
18:10:28 [bmotik]: The only problem is where we are changing the semantics.
18:10:32 [JeffP]: +1 boris
18:11:01 [IanH]: q?
18:11:06 [bmotik]: q+
18:11:38 [jeremycarroll]: q+ to respond to sandro
18:11:42 [uli]: zakim, unmute me
18:11:42 [Zakim]: uli should no longer be muted
18:12:10 [IanH]: q?
18:12:12 [IanH]: ack uli
18:12:19 [JeffP]: uli: should not have any semantics; it would be helpful to signal sth
18:12:25 [bmotik]: q-
18:12:31 [sandro]: Uli: I like intendedProfile as a hint, but not as formal semantics
18:12:32 [uli]: zakim, mute me
18:12:32 [Zakim]: uli should now be muted
18:12:37 [bmotik]: Yes
18:12:43 [bijan]: Is this different than owl:deprecatedClass?
18:13:10 [IanH]: q?
18:13:18 [IanH]: ack jerermycarroll
18:13:22 [IanH]: q?
18:13:35 [sandro]: sure -- error message are a pretty trivial point.
18:13:44 [IanH]: ack jeremycarroll
18:13:44 [Zakim]: jeremycarroll, you wanted to respond to sandro
18:13:48 [IanH]: q?
18:14:07 [bijan]: q+ to ask sandro about the brokenness
18:14:17 [IanH]: q?
18:14:22 [alanr]: q+
18:15:02 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
18:15:02 [Zakim]: bijan was not muted, bijan
18:16:03 [IanH]: q?
18:16:08 [IanH]: ack bijan
18:16:08 [Zakim]: bijan, you wanted to ask sandro about the brokenness
18:16:33 [sandro]: +1 Bijan -- don't reject Full document if you are Full.... repair with warning, etc.
18:16:47 [bijan]: +1 to sandro thing
18:16:49 [IanH]: q?
18:18:33 [IanH]: q?
18:18:40 [IanH]: q?
18:18:48 [JeffP]: ack alanr
18:19:05 [JeffP]: IanH: continue discussion by emails
18:19:18 [JeffP]: Topic: Issue 124 (newly open) The complement of a datarange is defined relative to the whole data domain
18:19:28 [sandro]: maybe in e-mail, Uli, you can explain to me why the having formal meaning to this is harmful?
18:20:00 [bmotik]: q+
18:20:05 [bmotik]: Zakim, unmute me
18:20:05 [Zakim]: bmotik should no longer be muted
18:20:05 [IanH]: q?
18:20:11 [IanH]: ack bmotik
18:20:37 [IanH]: q?
18:20:41 [ewallace]: sounds good to me
18:20:45 [alanr]: q+
18:21:06 [bmotik]: Zakim, mute me
18:21:06 [Zakim]: bmotik should now be muted
18:21:12 [IanH]: q?
18:21:22 [bmotik]: Zakim, unmute me
18:21:22 [Zakim]: bmotik should no longer be muted
18:21:46 [bijan]: q+
18:21:47 [IanH]: q?
18:21:53 [IanH]: ack alanr
18:22:13 [JeffP]: boris: this is not intended to be used by people
18:22:19 [alanr]: q?
18:22:57 [JeffP]: ... mainly for some process in the background e.g. moving expressions from one side to the other
18:23:06 [IanH]: q?
18:23:28 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
18:23:28 [Zakim]: bijan was not muted, bijan
18:23:41 [JeffP]: ... so the complement is implicitly there and it should be in the language
18:23:46 [bmotik]: Zakim, mute me
18:23:46 [Zakim]: bmotik should now be muted
18:23:49 [IanH]: q?
18:23:54 [IanH]: ack bijan
18:25:08 [IanH]: q?
18:25:08 [bijan]: zakim, mute me
18:25:09 [Zakim]: bijan should now be muted
18:25:09 [JeffP]: bijan: support it strongly
18:25:32 [sandro]: zakim, who is on the call?
18:25:32 [Zakim]: On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Evan_Wallace, Sandro, JeffP, Rinke (muted), Zhe, IanH, baojie, jeremycarroll, bcuencagrau (muted), Alan, MarkusK, uli (muted), bijan (muted),
18:25:36 [Zakim]: ... Achille
18:25:59 [IanH]: q?
18:26:02 [bmotik]: Could we perhaps handle imports?
18:26:12 [sandro]: PRESENT: bmotik, Evan_Wallace, Sandro, JeffP, Rinke, Zhe, IanH, baojie, jeremycarroll, bcuencagrau, Alan, MarkusK, uli, bijan, Achille
18:26:22 [bmotik]: Zakim, umnute me
18:26:22 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'umnute me', bmotik
18:26:25 [bijan]: Agenda amendment (last minute) is there a publication plan?
18:26:26 [bmotik]: Zakim, unmute me
18:26:26 [Zakim]: bmotik should no longer be muted
18:26:30 [ewallace]: In 4 minutes?
18:26:31 [sandro]: Chair: Ian
18:26:50 [sandro]: Scribe: JeffP
18:27:32 [IanH]: q?
18:27:57 [IanH]: q?
18:28:05 [JeffP]: IanH: too less time to allow detailed discussions on the remaining actions
18:28:34 [ewallace]: sort of
18:28:40 [alanr]: we're out of time. point proved
18:28:49 [JeffP]: (better next time then)
18:28:55 [bijan]: zakim, unmute me
18:28:55 [Zakim]: bijan should no longer be muted
18:29:01 [IanH]: q?
18:29:23 [JeffP]: bijan: any plan for republication?
18:29:43 [IanH]: q?
18:29:43 [JeffP]: IanH: should get the reviews first
18:30:51 [bijan]: ta ta
18:30:53 [Rinke]: thanks
18:30:54 [uli]: bye
18:30:54 [Zakim]: -Evan_Wallace
18:30:56 [Zakim]: -bijan
18:30:56 [Rinke]: bye
18:30:56 [JeffP]: ciao
18:30:57 [Zhe]: bye
18:30:59 [Achille]: bye
18:30:59 [Zakim]: -MarkusK
18:31:00 [Zakim]: -Alan
18:31:00 [IanH]: bye
18:31:01 [Zakim]: -Zhe
18:31:02 [Zakim]: -uli
18:31:02 [Zakim]: -Rinke
18:31:04 [Zakim]: -bmotik
18:31:06 [Zakim]: -baojie
18:31:07 [Zakim]: -jeremycarroll
18:31:08 [Zakim]: -IanH
18:31:14 [Zakim]: -bcuencagrau
18:31:14 [sandro]: JeffP, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.05.21/Minutes is ready for cleanup.
18:31:15 [Zakim]: -Achille
18:31:20 [uli]: uli has left #owl
18:31:28 [Zakim]: -Sandro
18:31:29 [Zakim]: -JeffP
18:31:29 [Zakim]: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
18:31:30 [Zakim]: Attendees were Evan_Wallace, bmotik, Sandro, +22427aaaa, +7.233.aabb, JeffP, Rinke, +0186527aadd, Zhe, +1.518.276.aaee, baojie, IanH, Alan, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, jeremycarroll,
18:31:32 [Zakim]: ... uli, bijan, Achille
18:31:57 [IanH]: Sandro: are you creating the minutes?
18:32:08 [sandro]: Yep all done, IanH.
18:32:17 [IanH]: Thanks!
20:42:32 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #owl
21:34:15 [sandro]: sandro has joined #owl