14:44:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:44:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc
14:44:16 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make log public
14:44:22 <John_Boyer> zakim, this will be forms
14:44:22 <Zakim> ok, John_Boyer, I see HTML_Forms()10:45AM already started
14:44:29 <unl> unl has joined #forms
14:44:52 <Zakim> + +1.250.294.aaaa
14:45:26 <Zakim> + +1.919.254.aabb
14:45:35 <wellsk> zakim, aabb is wellsk
14:45:35 <Zakim> +wellsk; got it
14:46:02 <John_Boyer> Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference
14:46:11 <Roger> Roger has joined #forms
14:46:12 <John_Boyer> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0051.html
14:46:19 <Roger> zakim, code?
14:46:19 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Roger
14:46:54 <John_Boyer> Chair: John
14:47:03 <John_Boyer> Scribe: Leigh
14:47:07 <John_Boyer> Regrets: MarkB
14:47:07 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
14:47:23 <Zakim> + +03491211aacc
14:47:28 <Roger> zakim, aacc is Roger
14:47:29 <Zakim> +Roger; got it
14:47:33 <Zakim> +Ulrich_Nicolas_Lisse
14:47:38 <Roger> zakim, Roger has Rafael
14:47:38 <Zakim> +Rafael; got it
14:47:48 <unl> zakim, Ulrich_Nicolas_Lisse is me
14:47:49 <Zakim> +unl; got it
14:47:57 <unl> zakim, mute me
14:47:57 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
14:47:58 <nick> nick has joined #forms
14:48:00 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
14:48:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie, +1.250.294.aaaa, wellsk, Roger, unl (muted)
14:48:03 <Zakim> Roger has Rafael
14:48:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see nick, ebruchez, Roger, unl, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Zakim, Charlie, wellsk, Steven, shepazu, trackbot-ng
14:48:07 <Zakim> +??P0
14:48:10 <Rafael> Rafael has joined #forms
14:48:12 <ebruchez> zakim, ??P0 is ebruchez
14:48:12 <Zakim> +ebruchez; got it
14:48:14 <John_Boyer> zakim, I am 1.250
14:48:14 <Zakim> sorry, John_Boyer, I do not see a party named '1.250'
14:48:24 <John_Boyer> zakim, I am +1.250
14:48:24 <Zakim> +John_Boyer; got it
14:48:27 <nick> zakim, code?
14:48:27 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nick
14:48:31 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
14:48:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie, John_Boyer, wellsk, Roger, unl (muted), ebruchez
14:48:34 <Zakim> Roger has Rafael
14:48:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rafael, nick, ebruchez, Roger, unl, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Zakim, Charlie, wellsk, Steven, shepazu, trackbot-ng
14:49:01 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
14:49:18 <nick> zakim, mute me
14:49:18 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
14:50:12 <nick> ack me
14:50:28 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
14:51:47 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
14:52:04 <John_Boyer> scribenick: klotz
14:53:04 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0051.html
14:53:13 <klotz> ACTION: Keith Wells to contact sf.net author of HTML4 to XForms stylesheet
14:53:13 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-461 - Wells to contact sf.net author of HTML4 to XForms stylesheet [on Keith Wells - due 2008-05-28].
14:53:57 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:53:57 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:53:59 <Zakim> +Steven
14:54:54 <Steven> q+ to tentatively announce XForms event in UK in September
15:00:00 <nick> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/XForms1.1/Edition1/driverPages/html/index.html
15:00:29 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/
15:00:37 <klotz> ACTION: Keith Wells to report on status of Mozilla Firefox XForms extension XForms 1.1 test suite.
15:00:38 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-462 - Wells to report on status of Mozilla Firefox XForms extension XForms 1.1 test suite. [on Keith Wells - due 2008-05-28].
15:08:59 <Steven> q?
15:10:34 <nick> ack me
15:10:56 <unl> I don't know much about Chiba anymore ...
15:11:03 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Preliminary_XForms_1.1_Implementations
15:13:14 <klotz> DataMobile sp?
15:13:27 <Roger> DataMovil
15:16:36 <nick> latest version : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/att-0052/actions-2008-05-19.html
15:18:24 <nick> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0118.html
15:19:02 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0133.html
15:25:59 <unl> ack me
15:26:07 <Steven> q-
15:26:37 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#evt-revalidate
15:27:35 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit-evt-submit
15:28:33 <unl> q+
15:28:54 <nick> don't we also have a problem with alert
15:29:03 <John_Boyer> ack unl
15:29:40 <nick> q+
15:30:02 <nick> you also want access then for it for styling
15:30:04 <John_Boyer> ack nick
15:36:29 <unl> zakim, mute me
15:36:29 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
15:42:28 <klotz> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/March-May_2008_Newsletter
15:45:26 <John_Boyer> Proposal: Change definition of "valid" to include "required and non-empty OR non-required"
15:45:56 <John_Boyer> definition of invalid includes "required but empty"
15:46:32 <John_Boyer> and submission validation can then just refer to validity tests defined in the section on xforms-revalidate
15:46:48 <nick> john is it possible to add the empty styling to the resolution?
15:47:01 <nick> thanks
15:47:12 <John_Boyer> and CSS appendix should add definition of 'empty' class and example of how to style "invalid but empty"
15:47:36 <John_Boyer> for 1.1?
15:49:04 <nick> for me 1.1 is ok
15:50:18 <ebruchez> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-selectors/#empty-pseudo
15:51:13 <nick> value-empty is fine for me
15:51:14 <unl> invlaid-empty
15:51:30 <klotz> empty-value ?
15:51:35 <unl> s/invlaid/xforms-invalid
15:52:00 <unl> ok
15:52:01 <klotz> ok
15:52:56 <unl> :valid & :invalid
15:53:38 <klotz> :invalid+:empty
15:53:53 <John_Boyer> :invalid+:value-empty
15:53:57 <John_Boyer> Look good?
15:54:02 <klotz> :value-invalid+:value-empty
15:54:34 <unl> what about constraint invalidity?
15:55:05 <ebruchez> a:focus:hover
15:55:50 <John_Boyer> At some point in the future, we could talk about :invalid-constraint, :invalid-type, etc.
15:55:52 <klotz> xf|input:valid-empty:invalid
15:56:09 <klotz> s/valid/value/
15:57:44 <John_Boyer> Proposal: change valid/invalid definition to account for required but empty, change submission validation to match, and add CSS pseudoclass and example for "value-empty"
15:57:47 <unl> when we want to add :invalid-constraint, :invalid-type later, i'd still prefer :invalid-empty
15:58:05 <John_Boyer> it woudl actually be invalid-required
15:58:11 <unl> ok
15:58:16 <John_Boyer> it is invalid because it fails the required condition
15:59:06 <klotz> RESOLUTION: change valid/invalid definition to account for required but empty, change submission validation to match, and add CSS pseudoclass and example for "value-empty"
15:59:24 <klotz> ACTION: John Boyer and Leigh Klotz to change valid/invalid definition to account for required but empty, change submission validation to match, and add CSS pseudoclass and example for "value-empty"
15:59:28 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John
15:59:30 <trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)
15:59:48 <klotz> ACTION: trackbot-ng to get less annoying.
15:59:48 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - trackbot-ng
15:59:55 <John_Boyer> xforms-submit-done response-body and host language submission result targeting
16:00:15 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0048.html
16:00:48 <nick> zakim, mute me
16:00:48 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
16:02:21 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit-evt-submit-error
16:02:31 <John_Boyer> the error event contains response-body
16:02:34 <John_Boyer> but not the done event
16:02:40 <nick> at the time we wanted to have the body in the failure case to get the error out of the body
16:02:49 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit-evt-submit-done
16:02:54 <John_Boyer> Why inconsistent?
16:03:36 <nick> I think no one had a use case for the body in a successful submit
16:03:49 <nick> or came forward with one
16:04:06 <klotz> 2008-04-30.txt:103:Erik: if we had 'response-body' on xforms-submit-done, we could write &lt;setvalue ev:event="xforms-submit-done" ref="/foo/bar" value="event('response-body')"/>.  We have it for xforms-submit-error but not xforms-submit-done.  So if our proposed solution is longer than this we aren't achieving anything great.
16:06:46 <nick> I don't think chiba reads the body with replace none
16:09:05 <nick> if replace is all the 'XForms processor' doesn't needs to 'read' the body he may just forward the response stream to the container if the container supports that
16:11:11 <nick> ack me
16:14:40 <nick> mute me
16:15:33 <nick> is it really needed
16:15:43 <nick> we are past last call...
16:15:59 <Charlie> -1
16:16:07 <Charlie> yup
16:16:39 <Charlie> Charlie has left #forms
16:16:45 <Steven> bye
16:16:47 <nick> talk to you next week
16:16:50 <Zakim> -wellsk
16:16:50 <Roger> Roger has left #forms
16:16:51 <Zakim> -Steven
16:16:51 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:16:52 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
16:16:52 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
16:16:52 <Zakim> -unl
16:16:53 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:16:55 <Zakim> -Charlie
16:16:57 <Zakim> -Roger
16:16:59 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
16:17:01 <Zakim> Attendees were Charlie, +1.250.294.aaaa, +1.919.254.aabb, wellsk, +03491211aacc, Rafael, unl, ebruchez, John_Boyer, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Leigh_Klotz, Steven
16:17:08 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
16:17:17 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, bye
16:17:17 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-actions.rdf :
16:17:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Keith Wells to contact sf.net author of HTML4 to XForms stylesheet [1]
16:17:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc#T14-53-13
16:17:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Keith Wells to report on status of Mozilla Firefox XForms extension XForms 1.1 test suite. [2]
16:17:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc#T15-00-37
16:17:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John Boyer and Leigh Klotz to change valid/invalid definition to account for required but empty, change submission validation to match, and add CSS pseudoclass and example for "value-empty" [3]
16:17:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc#T15-59-24
16:17:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: trackbot-ng to get less annoying. [4]
16:17:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc#T15-59-48
16:17:18 <wellsk> wellsk has left #forms