IRC log of forms on 2008-05-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:44:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:44:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc
14:44:16 [John_Boyer]
rrsagent, make log public
14:44:22 [John_Boyer]
zakim, this will be forms
14:44:22 [Zakim]
ok, John_Boyer, I see HTML_Forms()10:45AM already started
14:44:29 [unl]
unl has joined #forms
14:44:52 [Zakim]
+ +1.250.294.aaaa
14:45:26 [Zakim]
+ +1.919.254.aabb
14:45:35 [wellsk]
zakim, aabb is wellsk
14:45:35 [Zakim]
+wellsk; got it
14:46:02 [John_Boyer]
Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference
14:46:11 [Roger]
Roger has joined #forms
14:46:12 [John_Boyer]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0051.html
14:46:19 [Roger]
zakim, code?
14:46:19 [Zakim]
the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Roger
14:46:54 [John_Boyer]
Chair: John
14:47:03 [John_Boyer]
Scribe: Leigh
14:47:07 [John_Boyer]
Regrets: MarkB
14:47:07 [ebruchez]
ebruchez has joined #forms
14:47:23 [Zakim]
+ +03491211aacc
14:47:28 [Roger]
zakim, aacc is Roger
14:47:29 [Zakim]
+Roger; got it
14:47:33 [Zakim]
+Ulrich_Nicolas_Lisse
14:47:38 [Roger]
zakim, Roger has Rafael
14:47:38 [Zakim]
+Rafael; got it
14:47:48 [unl]
zakim, Ulrich_Nicolas_Lisse is me
14:47:49 [Zakim]
+unl; got it
14:47:57 [unl]
zakim, mute me
14:47:57 [Zakim]
unl should now be muted
14:47:58 [nick]
nick has joined #forms
14:48:00 [John_Boyer]
zakim, who is here?
14:48:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlie, +1.250.294.aaaa, wellsk, Roger, unl (muted)
14:48:03 [Zakim]
Roger has Rafael
14:48:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see nick, ebruchez, Roger, unl, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Zakim, Charlie, wellsk, Steven, shepazu, trackbot-ng
14:48:07 [Zakim]
+??P0
14:48:10 [Rafael]
Rafael has joined #forms
14:48:12 [ebruchez]
zakim, ??P0 is ebruchez
14:48:12 [Zakim]
+ebruchez; got it
14:48:14 [John_Boyer]
zakim, I am 1.250
14:48:14 [Zakim]
sorry, John_Boyer, I do not see a party named '1.250'
14:48:24 [John_Boyer]
zakim, I am +1.250
14:48:24 [Zakim]
+John_Boyer; got it
14:48:27 [nick]
zakim, code?
14:48:27 [Zakim]
the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nick
14:48:31 [John_Boyer]
zakim, who is here?
14:48:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Charlie, John_Boyer, wellsk, Roger, unl (muted), ebruchez
14:48:34 [Zakim]
Roger has Rafael
14:48:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Rafael, nick, ebruchez, Roger, unl, RRSAgent, John_Boyer, Zakim, Charlie, wellsk, Steven, shepazu, trackbot-ng
14:49:01 [Zakim]
+Nick_van_den_Bleeken
14:49:18 [nick]
zakim, mute me
14:49:18 [Zakim]
Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
14:50:12 [nick]
ack me
14:50:28 [klotz]
klotz has joined #forms
14:51:47 [Zakim]
+Leigh_Klotz
14:52:04 [John_Boyer]
scribenick: klotz
14:53:04 [John_Boyer]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0051.html
14:53:13 [klotz]
ACTION: Keith Wells to contact sf.net author of HTML4 to XForms stylesheet
14:53:13 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-461 - Wells to contact sf.net author of HTML4 to XForms stylesheet [on Keith Wells - due 2008-05-28].
14:53:57 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
14:53:57 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:53:59 [Zakim]
+Steven
14:54:54 [Steven]
q+ to tentatively announce XForms event in UK in September
15:00:00 [nick]
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/XForms1.1/Edition1/driverPages/html/index.html
15:00:29 [Steven]
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/
15:00:37 [klotz]
ACTION: Keith Wells to report on status of Mozilla Firefox XForms extension XForms 1.1 test suite.
15:00:38 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-462 - Wells to report on status of Mozilla Firefox XForms extension XForms 1.1 test suite. [on Keith Wells - due 2008-05-28].
15:08:59 [Steven]
q?
15:10:34 [nick]
ack me
15:10:56 [unl]
I don't know much about Chiba anymore ...
15:11:03 [John_Boyer]
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Preliminary_XForms_1.1_Implementations
15:13:14 [klotz]
DataMobile sp?
15:13:27 [Roger]
DataMovil
15:16:36 [nick]
latest version : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/att-0052/actions-2008-05-19.html
15:18:24 [nick]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0118.html
15:19:02 [John_Boyer]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0133.html
15:25:59 [unl]
ack me
15:26:07 [Steven]
q-
15:26:37 [John_Boyer]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#evt-revalidate
15:27:35 [John_Boyer]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit-evt-submit
15:28:33 [unl]
q+
15:28:54 [nick]
don't we also have a problem with alert
15:29:03 [John_Boyer]
ack unl
15:29:40 [nick]
q+
15:30:02 [nick]
you also want access then for it for styling
15:30:04 [John_Boyer]
ack nick
15:36:29 [unl]
zakim, mute me
15:36:29 [Zakim]
unl should now be muted
15:42:28 [klotz]
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/March-May_2008_Newsletter
15:45:26 [John_Boyer]
Proposal: Change definition of "valid" to include "required and non-empty OR non-required"
15:45:56 [John_Boyer]
definition of invalid includes "required but empty"
15:46:32 [John_Boyer]
and submission validation can then just refer to validity tests defined in the section on xforms-revalidate
15:46:48 [nick]
john is it possible to add the empty styling to the resolution?
15:47:01 [nick]
thanks
15:47:12 [John_Boyer]
and CSS appendix should add definition of 'empty' class and example of how to style "invalid but empty"
15:47:36 [John_Boyer]
for 1.1?
15:49:04 [nick]
for me 1.1 is ok
15:50:18 [ebruchez]
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-selectors/#empty-pseudo
15:51:13 [nick]
value-empty is fine for me
15:51:14 [unl]
invlaid-empty
15:51:30 [klotz]
empty-value ?
15:51:35 [unl]
s/invlaid/xforms-invalid
15:52:00 [unl]
ok
15:52:01 [klotz]
ok
15:52:56 [unl]
:valid & :invalid
15:53:38 [klotz]
:invalid+:empty
15:53:53 [John_Boyer]
:invalid+:value-empty
15:53:57 [John_Boyer]
Look good?
15:54:02 [klotz]
:value-invalid+:value-empty
15:54:34 [unl]
what about constraint invalidity?
15:55:05 [ebruchez]
a:focus:hover
15:55:50 [John_Boyer]
At some point in the future, we could talk about :invalid-constraint, :invalid-type, etc.
15:55:52 [klotz]
xf|input:valid-empty:invalid
15:56:09 [klotz]
s/valid/value/
15:57:44 [John_Boyer]
Proposal: change valid/invalid definition to account for required but empty, change submission validation to match, and add CSS pseudoclass and example for "value-empty"
15:57:47 [unl]
when we want to add :invalid-constraint, :invalid-type later, i'd still prefer :invalid-empty
15:58:05 [John_Boyer]
it woudl actually be invalid-required
15:58:11 [unl]
ok
15:58:16 [John_Boyer]
it is invalid because it fails the required condition
15:59:06 [klotz]
RESOLUTION: change valid/invalid definition to account for required but empty, change submission validation to match, and add CSS pseudoclass and example for "value-empty"
15:59:24 [klotz]
ACTION: John Boyer and Leigh Klotz to change valid/invalid definition to account for required but empty, change submission validation to match, and add CSS pseudoclass and example for "value-empty"
15:59:28 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John
15:59:30 [trackbot-ng]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)
15:59:48 [klotz]
ACTION: trackbot-ng to get less annoying.
15:59:48 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - trackbot-ng
15:59:55 [John_Boyer]
xforms-submit-done response-body and host language submission result targeting
16:00:15 [John_Boyer]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008May/0048.html
16:00:48 [nick]
zakim, mute me
16:00:48 [Zakim]
Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
16:02:21 [John_Boyer]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit-evt-submit-error
16:02:31 [John_Boyer]
the error event contains response-body
16:02:34 [John_Boyer]
but not the done event
16:02:40 [nick]
at the time we wanted to have the body in the failure case to get the error out of the body
16:02:49 [John_Boyer]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit-evt-submit-done
16:02:54 [John_Boyer]
Why inconsistent?
16:03:36 [nick]
I think no one had a use case for the body in a successful submit
16:03:49 [nick]
or came forward with one
16:04:06 [klotz]
2008-04-30.txt:103:Erik: if we had 'response-body' on xforms-submit-done, we could write <setvalue ev:event="xforms-submit-done" ref="/foo/bar" value="event('response-body')"/>. We have it for xforms-submit-error but not xforms-submit-done. So if our proposed solution is longer than this we aren't achieving anything great.
16:06:46 [nick]
I don't think chiba reads the body with replace none
16:09:05 [nick]
if replace is all the 'XForms processor' doesn't needs to 'read' the body he may just forward the response stream to the container if the container supports that
16:11:11 [nick]
ack me
16:14:40 [nick]
mute me
16:15:33 [nick]
is it really needed
16:15:43 [nick]
we are past last call...
16:15:59 [Charlie]
-1
16:16:07 [Charlie]
yup
16:16:39 [Charlie]
Charlie has left #forms
16:16:45 [Steven]
bye
16:16:47 [nick]
talk to you next week
16:16:50 [Zakim]
-wellsk
16:16:50 [Roger]
Roger has left #forms
16:16:51 [Zakim]
-Steven
16:16:51 [Zakim]
-ebruchez
16:16:52 [Zakim]
-John_Boyer
16:16:52 [Zakim]
-Leigh_Klotz
16:16:52 [Zakim]
-unl
16:16:53 [Zakim]
-Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:16:55 [Zakim]
-Charlie
16:16:57 [Zakim]
-Roger
16:16:59 [Zakim]
HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
16:17:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were Charlie, +1.250.294.aaaa, +1.919.254.aabb, wellsk, +03491211aacc, Rafael, unl, ebruchez, John_Boyer, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Leigh_Klotz, Steven
16:17:08 [John_Boyer]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
16:17:17 [John_Boyer]
rrsagent, bye
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-actions.rdf :
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Keith Wells to contact sf.net author of HTML4 to XForms stylesheet [1]
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc#T14-53-13
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Keith Wells to report on status of Mozilla Firefox XForms extension XForms 1.1 test suite. [2]
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc#T15-00-37
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: John Boyer and Leigh Klotz to change valid/invalid definition to account for required but empty, change submission validation to match, and add CSS pseudoclass and example for "value-empty" [3]
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc#T15-59-24
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: trackbot-ng to get less annoying. [4]
16:17:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-forms-irc#T15-59-48
16:17:18 [wellsk]
wellsk has left #forms