13:32:50 RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:32:50 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-irc
13:33:11 Zakim, this will be XHTML2
13:33:11 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, RolandMerrick
13:33:19 Zakim, list
13:33:19 I see Team_W3M()8:00AM, SEC_WSCWG(F2F)2:00AM active and no others scheduled to start in the next 15 minutes
13:34:04 zakim, this will be xhtml
13:34:04 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven
13:34:08 dunno :-(
13:34:10 huh?
13:35:20 true
13:35:20 zakim was weird yesterday too
13:35:22 ShaneM has joined #xhtml
13:35:46 Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:36:08 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0021.html
13:36:15 Chair: Roland
13:36:26 rrsagent, make minutes
13:36:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html RolandMerrick
13:36:36 rrsagent, make log public
13:37:11 Roland has joined #xhtml
13:37:15 zakim, this will be ia
13:37:16 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven
13:37:25 zakim,this will be html
13:37:27 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Steven
13:37:34 weird
13:38:42 this happened to me yesterday, could call in as usual though.
13:39:01 yeah, zakim works as a bridge, but nothing else
13:40:19 I have dialed in and all seems "normal"
13:42:07 zakim, this is xhtml
13:42:07 ok, Steven; that matches IA_XHTML2()9:45AM
13:42:34 apparently someone has to dial in for Zakim to get it
13:43:03 04Zakim-bot does not have today's schedule loaded; if Zakim says "I do not see a conference" before your conf is started then dial-in to start your conference and say "this is ..."01""
13:43:23 found on sysreq irc channel
13:43:42 +ShaneM
13:44:18 +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:45:46 zakim, dial steven-mobile
13:45:47 ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:45:48 +Steven
13:46:44 There is a national adsl breakdown since 3am yesterday
13:46:51 so I am using my cell for both the call and IP...
13:47:06 so you're the one who sounds like they are in a submarine?
13:47:13 sounds quality rather poor
13:48:29 zakim, who is here?
13:48:29 On the phone I see Roland, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven
13:48:30 On IRC I see Roland, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Steven, Lachy, Tina, krijnh
13:49:07 Regrets: Mark
13:49:25 Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
13:49:25 +??P6
13:49:30 scribeNick: oedipus
13:49:54 TOPIC: Outstanding Reviews
13:50:02 zakim, ??P6 is Alessio
13:50:02 +Alessio; got it
13:50:07 RM: only 2 people and myself at last week's meeting -- nothing happened
13:50:24 RM: review for XML Base?
13:50:29 Steven: no
13:50:40 RM: june face 2 face -- has everyone filled in form?
13:50:44 s/ies/y's/
13:51:22 Steven action to review XML Base by 30 June continued
13:51:32 F2F Registration form: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32107/xhtml2ftf200806/
13:51:36 The f2f has fallen out of my list. Will get to it.
13:52:01 Maybe do it entirely remotely?
13:52:02 RM: reads face2face page -- only 3 people listed as attendees
13:52:11 RM: worthwhile? what are people's intentions?
13:52:22 RM: yam will be on IRC rather than in person
13:52:28 GJR: cannot attend
13:52:45 RM: steven, shane and roland will attend
13:52:52 GJR: yes by phone and IRC
13:53:13 Alessio: will attend remotely
13:53:28 Steven: do entire F2F remotely?
13:53:37 Tina: will attend remotely
13:53:57 RM: MarkB unknown status
13:54:12 -ShaneM
13:54:13 SM: MarkB travelling most of may, disinclined to travel in june
13:54:15 XHTML2
13:54:17 oops
13:54:30 s/XHTML2//
13:54:46 +ShaneM
13:54:53 Mark says he can't attend in person, can attend remotely
13:54:55 RM: once get mark's answer, will consider moving dates, moving location, keeping dates and location, doing whole remotely or whatever circumstances dictate
13:55:22 RM: question: people can do remotely -- is the problem the location?
13:55:27 GJR: no
13:55:43 Alessio: financial and logistic problem
13:55:47 Ditto
13:56:21 GJR cannot attend due to health problems and such
13:56:28 Mark says the problem is availability of time
13:56:50 I concur that it is silly for three to travel
13:56:52 RM: only 3 people attending doesn't sound wise for those 3 to travel - might as well all be equal and have a virtual f2f
13:57:00 We should try and set up a remote meeting then
13:57:08 GJR: plus 1 to SP
13:57:19 RM: shall we resolve to have virtual f2f?
13:57:21 +1
13:57:21 GJR: yes
13:57:26 +1 I guess
13:57:51 ... not *alot*, anyway ... ;)
13:57:58 RM: what would be a workable time-slot for all of us?
13:58:03 ShaneM: that reminds me, need a quick word afterwards.
13:58:23 RM: shane is UTC minus 5 -- furthest west?
13:58:37 SM: gerrie schultz (last name spelled incorrectly)
13:58:43 SM: easy to shift schedule
13:58:46 GJR: same for me
13:58:56 Our flexible friend
13:59:18 RM: will suggest logistics - probably 3 hour chuncks
13:59:31 how many chunks?
13:59:31 2?
13:59:32 RM: will confer next week on RM's proposed logistics
13:59:42 TOPIC: CURIE Syntax
13:59:51 RM: in last call; received a bit of feedback
14:00:02 TOPIC: Role Module
14:00:09 RM: ended last call on 10 may 2008
14:00:12 SVG sent comments last week
14:00:39 RM: dialog with WAI about Access Module and placement of ARIA role names into XHTML namespace
14:00:47 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008AprJun/0024.html
14:00:47 SP: SVG comment from last thursday
14:01:07 SM: forwarded to issue tracker system -- in "incoming" bucket -- moving to "Role" bucket now
14:01:16 RM: vocab document dialog
14:01:36 SM: not critical path for spec; vocab doc will develop independently and should let it do so
14:02:04 On topic of Access Module and ARIA: am doing a brief presentation at a Swedish IT professionals organisation, Monday 19th, on topic of XHTML 2 WG. If anyone have input on that topic, feel free to contact me directly.
14:02:10 RM: where are normative definitions -- SM response on list; should consider -- vocab document something machine-processable at run-time -- seems to me should be normative like schema or DTD
14:02:21 SM: not saying not normative, just not part of spec
14:02:31 RM: question posed by AlG -- is it a normative document
14:02:42 SM: will have to reread question in light of RM's comments
14:03:07 TOPIC: Steve Bratt on Transition
14:03:12 RM: REALLY dragging on...
14:03:47 SP: sent email yesterday; got unclear reply -- not clear what root of problem is, so tried again
14:04:09 RM: yam sent email to list -- can't refer to spec -- holding up other OMA specs
14:04:17 SM: holding up other specs for us, too
14:04:21 RM: not just us
14:04:33 SP: no formal reply to transition request
14:04:43 RM: causing problems for OMA
14:05:01 RM: biggest problem for OMA isn't Basic transition, but M12n
14:05:30 RM: don't undestand delay -- especially without explanation
14:05:48 TOPIC: RDFa Syntax
14:06:02 RM: different comments from TAG
14:06:28 SM: the core of issue is something we discussed long time ago -- XHTML+SVG media type -- request from TAG to change doc to permit RDF
14:06:48 SM: TAG commented about mediatypes and RDFa - felt need to update media doc
14:07:10 SP: thought we said we didn't see what problem was
14:07:17 SM: right -- did you convey that to TAG?
14:07:43 SM: background - TAG has document working on - NormW updated this week, still states need media type to change
14:07:56 s/NormW/NoahM
14:09:01 SM: talked with noah privately, now understand what is going on -- semantic web and announcements: how do things that are part of semantic web know that content might contain RDF -- how helping with RDFa syntax; don't think is an issue for this WG -- don't need to do anything with mediatype and want to ascertain if we have stated that to TAG and if not, we should now
14:09:05 The Self-Describing Web : http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments-2008-05-12.html
14:09:29 SM: TAG suggestion: update mediatype to affirm that RDF can be served
14:09:38 SM: not necessary
14:09:46 SP: send again to TAG
14:10:30 steven's existing action: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action06
14:10:31 existing action : http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-xhtml-minutes.html#action06
14:11:03 SM: meanwhile will get task force to respond to Noah's draft -- bigger response could be made, but want to put to bed
14:11:14 I'm sorry. I think I confused that with my other action wrt the TAG
14:11:21 RM: is that all on RDFa side? still another couple of outstanding actions
14:11:54 SM: XML data set; want to leave other actions open -- need more dialog on rel attribute; have sent out email, but so far no replies
14:12:14 TOPIC: Access Module
14:12:32 RM: GJR emailed Access Module rewording to list today (14 may 2008)
14:12:37 SM: not had time to read
14:12:52 yamx has joined #xhtml
14:13:23 GJR note: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0023.html
14:13:54 +??P2
14:14:04 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/wiki/AccessModule/
14:14:05 zakim, ??P2 is yamx.
14:14:05 +yamx; got it
14:19:01 Shane asked about the definition of "session". Gregory will try to find a reference.
14:19:34 Shane asked why everything is "should" instead of "must". Gregory indicated they did not want to use MUST because it is too strong.
14:19:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/wiki/KeyMappingBinding/Talk
14:22:41 User agents MUST provide mechanisms for overriding the author setting
14:22:41 with user-specified settings in order to ensure that the act of moving
14:22:41 content focus does not cause the user agent to take any further action,
14:22:41 as required by UAAG 1.0, Checkpoint 9.5. [1]
14:23:13 There is an assertion missing from @key about MUST be able to override. Gregory agreed to add it back.
14:25:10 s/they did not/part of the UAWG did not
14:26:11 RESOLUTION: accept changes proposed by GJR as well as those agreed to at this meeting; GJR will repost to public-xhtml2 ASAP
14:26:48 TOPIC: XML Events 2
14:26:49 RM: done updates to XML Events 2 following f2f should work through review and take to last call asap
14:26:55 please add resolution to go to last call
14:27:03 (only the scribe can do it)
14:27:19 RESOLUTION: Access Module will go to last call as ammended
14:28:06 RM: XML Events 2 draft ready to for publich review in preparation for transition to last call -- perhaps next week
14:28:18 s/publich/publish
14:28:29 s/ammended/amended/
14:28:48 RM: would like to go through Alessio's work on frames and iframe
14:29:02 RM: read email from 2 weeks ago -- are you connected AC?
14:29:05 I would also like to report back on XTech conference
14:29:24 AC: only begining of possible work on object strengthening
14:29:32 RM: talk us through it at next week's call?
14:29:34 AC: yes
14:29:41 RM: will put specifically on agenda
14:30:41 SP: feedback from XTech Conference: gave an XForms presentation -- very well received; discovered 2 more implementations didn't previously know of, but biggest joyous suprise was popularity of RDFa - major sites already adopting it, quite a buzz
14:31:13 RM: clear up how to treat RDFa in HTML with TAG
14:31:15 Also got interviewd by BBC on the HTML5/XHTML2 thing
14:31:26 will be posted on blip.tv
14:32:03 THat's a good solution: we can do that in no time
14:32:23 (that=changing the xhtml ns doc)
14:32:41 q+
14:33:08 Speaking of implementations ... if not implementation per se: there's work being done to start checking for ARIA and other similar techniques by my company's quality testing tool. No details as of yet.
14:33:21 ack me
14:33:24 SM: TBL has suggested that change XHTML namespace doc so that if RDF processor is following its nose, it knows magically that any XHTML document might contain RDFa; a GRDDL processor can get RDF out of any XHTML document - very exiting from 50,000 foot level (enable semantic web); implication - any document will contain triples despite work we've done - strips announcement mechanism -- author can use doctype or version to declare using RDFa -- need to encoura
14:34:25 SP: all of a sudden a bunch of docs containing triples -- all they do is represent a formal semantic way or implying that this is part of XHTML and this is part of RDFa -- don't know why objection to relationship statements; being extracted in RDF is only real concern -- what is being done with it
14:34:38 SM: relationships there in that there is a @rel with a value
14:35:07 SM: doesn't mean that i as author not committing to architechture; semantic web about a contract -- this is where draw the line -- have to state where appropriate
14:35:50 RM: trying to ascertain how to say document more than one thing -- can write a bunch of valid XHTML 1.x and valid XHTML Mobile Profile and XHTML Basic -- aught to be able to claim conformance to all
14:36:01 I don't see the problem of extracting the relationships as RDF; the reationships are really there; all that has changed is representing them as RDF
14:36:09 it is like changing a JPG to PNG
14:36:10 RM: one of these AND one of these AND one of these
14:36:15 the information is the same
14:36:22 RM: i am one of these - by implication i am not one of those
14:36:49 SM: if claim is can write valid Xfoo - validator should validate; if not valid XHTML Mobile, then it is not
14:37:15 RM: version, doctype or mimetypes -- all contain info about pieces of compound document -- too many ways of talking about content
14:37:36 SM: proposal
14:38:02 RM: addressed when discussed script ennumeration of features -- describe features and not the content
14:38:18 it might be my keyboard
14:38:25 RM: knee-jerk capabilities need to be considered
14:38:43 SM: have thought about way of saying "this doc is using a collection of features X" and that is of potential interest
14:38:53 SM: might be proposed syntax from 8 years ago
14:39:13 RM: more and more messy as enter mashup and fragment world -- fragment should assert what it is, not parent
14:39:24 says "this document uses a stylesheet called "s.css"
14:39:28 SM: wonderful concept, but cobbling together arbitrary content is problematic
14:39:28 so does:
14:39:46 <> html:stylesheet
14:39:50 RM: if created valid SVG can assert it is valid and can be part of embedded SVG
14:40:04 GJR: question out of ignorance - can XPath be leveraged?
14:40:19 q+
14:40:22 FIVE MINUTE WARNING
14:40:30 ack steven
14:40:55 SP: what do we do about this -- plan change to NS that XHTML docs may contain GRDDL profile and RDFa encoding?
14:41:38 SM: talked with TBL and danC about this -- just change doc at end of NS so has declaration, so that magica can ocurr -- all docs that reference this NS are included - that is TBL's view
14:41:45 SM: like @link
14:42:00 SP: gets around media types argument
14:42:27 SM: bad solution -- implies that entire XHTML using internet is suddently using triples -- don't think we've thought through all implicatinos of that
14:42:42 RM: might be a small change, but MUST document implications of change so people are aware of that
14:43:04 SM: fully agree -- but not as response to a comment at this point in process
14:43:20 RM: may decide to do it -- not endorsing -- should make clear effect of doing it
14:43:24 SM: not our decision
14:43:31 RM: yes, but we can provide guidance
14:43:47 SM: would like TAG to chime in on this -- big picture about web development
14:43:57 RM: go chew on this one rather than curies
14:44:10 SM: will do as soon as given action by RDFa task force
14:44:44 SM: also interested in hearing W3C's input from logistical perspective - means a whole class of things going to leave XHTML NS - interesting impact on web infrastructure of W3C
14:44:55 TOPIC: Wrap UP
14:44:56 I wil copy this group on my comments on the tag stuff.
14:45:16 RM: good discussion -- any other items that need additional prorities, send to list and will get on agenda
14:45:22 -ShaneM
14:45:23 -Alessio
14:45:26 -yamx
14:45:28 zakim, drtop me
14:45:28 I don't understand 'drtop me', Steven
14:45:29 rrsagent, draft minutes
14:45:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/14-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
14:45:32 -Roland
14:45:32 zakim, drop me
14:45:33 Steven is being disconnected
14:45:33 -Steven
14:45:40 zakim, who is here?
14:45:40 On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita
14:45:41 On IRC I see yamx, Roland, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, oedipus, Steven, Lachy, Tina, krijnh
14:45:46 -Gregory_Rosmaita
14:45:48