10:33:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
10:33:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-irc
10:33:02 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
10:33:02 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
10:33:04 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
10:33:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng, I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM already started
10:33:05 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
10:33:05 <trackbot-ng> Date: 06 May 2008
10:33:36 <Zakim> +??P13
10:33:40 <Zakim> -Andreas_Neumann
10:33:41 <Zakim> +Andreas_Neumann
10:33:43 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
10:33:50 <aemmons> zakim, ??p13 is me
10:33:50 <Zakim> +aemmons; got it
10:33:56 <ed> ed has joined #svg
10:34:18 <ChrisL> trackbot-ng, status
10:34:19 <Zakim> +??P15
10:34:37 <ed> Zakim, ??P15 is me
10:34:37 <Zakim> +ed; got it
10:35:20 <ed> Zakim, who's here?
10:35:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andreas_Neumann, aemmons, ed
10:35:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see ed, ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, aemmons, aneumann, shepazu, heycam, anthony, trackbot-ng
10:35:24 <Zakim> +ChrisL
10:35:28 <ChrisL> hi
10:36:04 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0012.html
10:36:12 <Zakim> +??P17
10:36:25 <anthony> Zakim, ??P17 is me
10:36:25 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
10:36:54 <aneumann> Scribe: Andreas Neumann
10:37:05 <aneumann> ScribeNick: aneumann
10:37:12 <aneumann> Chair: Erik
10:37:20 <Zakim> +??P18
10:37:35 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P18 is me
10:37:35 <Zakim> +shepazu; got it
10:37:43 <aneumann> TOPIC: ISSUE-2001 - (font-face-dtd): Prose describing <font> content model does not match DTD [SVG Full 1.1]
10:38:31 <aneumann> ED: we discussed it in a previous telcon but did not have a quorum
10:39:07 <aneumann> ED: in the SVG 1.1 DTD it says that the font-face element can't appear everywhere where the font element can appear
10:39:11 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0005.html
10:39:22 <ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#id5195633
10:40:37 <ed> s/SVG 1.1 DTD/SVG 1.1 font chapter/
10:40:54 <ChrisL> "When used to describe the characteristics of an SVG font contained within the same document, it is recommended that the 'font-face' element be a child of the 'font' element it is describing so that the 'font' element can be self-contained and fully-described."
10:41:08 <ChrisL> implying it need no always be a child of the font element
10:41:58 <aneumann> CL: proposal is to allow it everywhere where font is allowed?
10:42:23 <aneumann> ED: yes font and font-face should be usable at the same places
10:42:37 <ChrisL> Ok that brings it into line with 1.2T as well. In favour
10:44:10 <ChrisL> add the font-face element to Font.class
10:44:18 <aneumann> CL: any issues with recursitivity?
10:44:22 <aneumann> ED: no, can't be nested
10:44:37 <ChrisL> this change in section 20.9.1 Font Content Set and the DTD itself
10:44:52 <aneumann> RESOLUTION: add the font-face element to Font.class
10:45:04 <ChrisL> the DTD is correct already?
10:45:25 <ed> Zakim, who is noisy?
10:45:36 <Zakim> ed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ed (4%), shepazu (34%)
10:45:48 <aneumann> ACTION: ED to errata the font section and allow font-face everywhere where font is allowed
10:45:49 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2007 - Errata the font section and allow font-face everywhere where font is allowed [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-05-13].
10:46:20 <ChrisL> zakim, mute doug
10:46:20 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisL, I do not know which phone connection belongs to doug
10:46:28 <shepazu>  Zakim, mute shepazu 
10:46:28 <Zakim> shepazu should now be muted
10:46:29 <ChrisL> zakim, mute schepazu
10:46:30 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisL, I do not know which phone connection belongs to schepazu
10:47:10 <aneumann> TOPIC: Japanese Layout Task Force meeting
10:48:27 <aneumann> ED: anyone interested in attending the meeting?
10:48:32 <aneumann> CL: probably, yes
10:48:59 <aneumann> CL: will reply to Felix
10:49:15 <aneumann> CL: the meeting seems to be postponed
10:49:51 <aneumann> CL: but not the TPAC one
10:50:05 <ChrisL> never mind, its the one in April that was postponed, not the TPAC one
10:50:18 <aneumann> TOPIC: XHTML role review
10:50:26 <aneumann> ED:
10:50:49 <aneumann>  a few reviews were sent to the public list, from DOH and me
10:51:03 <aneumann> any further review comments should be sent this week
10:51:09 <aneumann> ED: any additional comments?
10:51:21 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0007.html
10:51:29 <aneumann> ED: my short review
10:51:39 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0058.html
10:52:25 <aneumann> CL: I'd say we look forward to working with you on this issue
10:53:06 <ChrisL> Add 'we look forward toworking with WAI PF to define roles suitable for common types of graphis such as maps, charts, etc'
10:53:42 <aneumann> CL: you are asking for the roles to be informative and not normative
10:53:48 <aneumann> ED: its not a complete list
10:53:57 <aneumann> CL: maybe better state it in your reasoning
10:54:01 <ChrisL> say why in the comment, then
10:55:01 <aneumann> CL: I think DOH is only referering to our text element
10:55:08 <ChrisL> first para, change "the elements
10:55:08 <ChrisL> in SVG" to "the text elements
10:55:08 <ChrisL> in SVG
10:55:39 <aneumann> CL: he is correct about text, but other elements do have semantics
10:55:52 <ChrisL> Agree with his point in general
10:56:32 <shepazu> it would also be good for text that doesn't use paragraphs or headings, like poetry, lyrics, etc.
10:57:05 <ChrisL> Additional comment; Its is a pity that no RelaxNG implementation is provided. Please consider adding one.
10:57:29 <aneumann> CL: they only have DTD and W3C XML Schema
10:58:47 <shepazu> Zakim, unmute me
10:58:47 <Zakim> shepazu should no longer be muted
10:59:06 <shepazu> Zakim, mute me
10:59:06 <Zakim> shepazu should now be muted
10:59:14 <aneumann> ACTION: ED to send in comments about XHTML role attribute
10:59:14 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2008 - Send in comments about XHTML role attribute [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-05-13].
11:00:15 <aneumann> TOPIC: Testsuite issues / actions
11:00:34 <aneumann> ED: AE added a lot of new test cases
11:00:50 <aneumann> CL: reviewing before the F2F would be good
11:01:06 <aemmons> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestReview
11:02:13 <aneumann> AE: tests are quite different - testing the API
11:02:33 <aneumann> AE: code layout will need reworking
11:02:42 <aneumann> CL: pretty print in Oxygen can help
11:03:30 <ChrisL> In oxygen - document xml document, format/indent
11:03:53 <aneumann> CL: already reviewed tests should be marked as done
11:04:19 <aneumann> AG: we should also have a comment column
11:05:16 <aneumann> ED: will review SVGMatrix and SVGLocatable
11:06:36 <ChrisL> i will do the color one
11:07:02 <ChrisL> yes
11:09:04 <aneumann> AE: maybe we should involve other implementors like Ikivo more
11:09:41 <shepazu> Zakim, unmute me
11:09:41 <Zakim> shepazu should no longer be muted
11:10:02 <aneumann> CL: Doug as staff contact could deal with it - Ikivo should have a representative again
11:10:20 <aneumann> DS: already asked a couple times. Andy seems to be very busy
11:11:26 <aneumann> DS: they should also send in the revision of MAE
11:11:40 <shepazu> Zakim, mute me
11:11:40 <Zakim> shepazu should now be muted
11:17:41 <aneumann> AE: the goal would be to review them before the F2F
11:18:13 <shepazu> Zakim, unmute me
11:18:13 <Zakim> shepazu should no longer be muted
11:19:14 <shepazu> Zakim, mute me
11:19:14 <Zakim> shepazu should now be muted
11:19:15 <aneumann> ACTION: AG to move Test review allocation table to the new wiki and add comment and reviewed column
11:19:15 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2009 - Move Test review allocation table to the new wiki and add comment and reviewed column [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-05-13].
11:20:30 <aneumann> TOPIC: substring length errata
11:20:33 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/335
11:20:56 <aneumann> it affects the ACID3 test
11:21:44 <aneumann> ED: its not clear for ligatures or
11:21:49 <ed> surrogate pairs
11:22:53 <aneumann> ED: other TEXT DOM methods specify explicitly what happens in this case
11:23:30 <aneumann> ED: my proposal is to add a similar sentence to SVGTextContentElement.getSubStringLength definition
11:24:12 <ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#InterfaceSVGTextContentElement
11:24:13 <aneumann> CL: you should never be able to break in the middle of a surrogate pair
11:24:34 <aneumann> CL: question is in which direction you move
11:25:18 <ChrisL> a selection that points into half of a surrogate pair should expand to include the whole character
11:27:54 <aneumann> ED: second part of the issue is about exceptions if you have a length value that goes beyond the number of characters (taking into account the start offset)
11:28:07 <aneumann> ED: I don't see the point of the exception
11:28:37 <ed> from selectSubString:
11:28:37 <ed> DOMException		INDEX_SIZE_ERR: Raised if the charnum is negative or if charnum is greater than or equal to the number of characters at this node.
11:28:49 <ed> in unsigned long nchars		The number of characters in the substring. If nchars specifies more characters than are available, then the substring will consist of all characters starting with charnum until the end of the list of characters.
11:28:49 <aneumann> the exception is fine if you pass a negative value, but other than that we should probably align the the selectSubString way
11:30:19 <ed> <text>abc</text>
11:30:30 <ed> getSubStringLength(0,5)
11:31:03 <ChrisL> text on a path with abcdefghijk
11:31:12 <ChrisL> and the path can display abc
11:31:32 <ChrisL> you ask for substroing len of abcde
11:31:40 <aneumann> CL: what should happen with the invisible characters that can't be rendered along the path
11:31:42 <ChrisL> de are not displayed
11:32:08 <aneumann> ED: not clear from the description of the method
11:34:00 <aneumann> CL: invisible characters don't contribute to the rendered extent
11:35:14 <aneumann> ED: it would affect all of the text methods
11:35:21 <aneumann> CL: sounds like a useful clarification
11:36:54 <aneumann> CL: it affects all the text methods that depend on the rendering rather than the original characters
11:37:25 <aneumann> ED: will close the original action and we'll open a new one
11:37:34 <aneumann> ED: still have to mail Ian Hickson
11:39:06 <aneumann> ACTION: ED to clarify/errata for text  DOM methods in SVG 1.1, specify that unrendered characters don't contribute to the computation; remove exceptions of getSubStringLength; clarify about unseparable characters
11:39:06 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2010 - Clarify/errata for text  DOM methods in SVG 1.1, specify that unrendered characters don't contribute to the computation; remove exceptions of getSubStringLength; clarify about unseparable characters [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-05-13].
11:39:37 <shepazu> Zakim, unmute me
11:39:37 <Zakim> shepazu should no longer be muted
11:59:07 <Zakim> -ed
11:59:28 <Zakim> -aemmons
11:59:30 <Zakim> -Andreas_Neumann
11:59:31 <Zakim> -ChrisL
11:59:39 <Zakim> -anthony
11:59:43 <Zakim> -shepazu
11:59:45 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended
11:59:46 <Zakim> Attendees were Andreas_Neumann, aemmons, ed, ChrisL, anthony, shepazu
12:00:34 <aneumann> rrsagent, make logs member
12:00:38 <aneumann> zakim, bye
12:00:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
12:00:47 <aneumann> rrsagent, make minutes
12:00:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html aneumann
12:05:51 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
12:06:06 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
12:06:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
12:25:43 <heycam> heycam has joined #svg