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14:57:32 <Norm> Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
14:57:33 <Norm> Date: 1 May 2008
14:57:33 <Norm> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/05/01-agenda
14:57:33 <Norm> Meeting: 110
14:57:33 <Norm> Chair: Norm
14:57:33 <Norm> Scribe: Norm
14:57:35 <Norm> ScribeNick: Norm
14:59:00 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:07 <Zakim> +Norm
14:59:46 <Norm> Regrets: Rui, Vojtech
14:59:56 <Zakim> +[ArborText]
15:00:45 <alexmilowski> alexmilowski has joined #xproc
15:01:07 <Zakim> MoZ, you asked to be reminded at this time
15:01:58 <alexmilowski> Huh... trying to call in... but not getting in...
15:02:05 <MoZ> Thanks Zakim
15:02:07 <Norm> try again :-)
15:02:16 <Zakim> +alexmilowski
15:02:30 <Zakim> + +95247aaaa
15:02:36 <MoZ> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:36 <Zakim> +MoZ; got it
15:02:57 <Norm> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:02:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, alexmilowski, MoZ
15:03:50 <ht> zakim, please call ht-781
15:03:50 <Zakim> ok, ht; the call is being made
15:03:52 <Zakim> +Ht
15:04:20 <Norm> Present: Norm, Paul, Alex, Mohamed, 
15:04:21 <ht> zakim, mute ht
15:04:21 <Zakim> Ht should now be muted
15:04:24 <AndrewF> AndrewF has joined #xproc
15:04:29 <ht> zakim, disconnect ht
15:04:29 <Zakim> Ht is being disconnected
15:04:31 <Zakim> -Ht
15:04:32 <Norm> Present: Norm, Paul, Alex, Mohamed, Henry, Andrew
15:04:57 <Zakim> +??P19
15:04:58 <ht> zakim, please call ht-781
15:04:58 <Zakim> ok, ht; the call is being made
15:04:59 <Zakim> +Ht
15:05:01 <AndrewF> zakim, ? is Andrew
15:05:01 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
15:05:19 <Norm> Zakim, mute ht
15:05:19 <Zakim> Ht should now be muted
15:05:28 <richard> richard has joined #xproc
15:05:37 <Zakim> -Ht
15:05:52 <Norm> Present: Norm, Paul, Alex, Mohamed, Henry, Andrew, Richard
15:05:57 <Zakim> +??P6
15:05:59 <richard> zakim, ? is me
15:05:59 <Zakim> +richard; got it
15:06:09 <ht> zakim, please call ht-781
15:06:09 <Zakim> ok, ht; the call is being made
15:06:11 <Zakim> +Ht
15:06:31 <Norm> Zakim, mute ht
15:06:31 <Zakim> Ht should now be muted
15:06:37 <Norm> ht, maybe you need to go to richard's office :-)
15:06:48 <Zakim> -Ht
15:07:14 <Norm> Topic: Accept this agenda?
15:07:14 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/05/01-agenda
15:07:53 <Norm> Accepted
15:08:05 <Norm> Norm's affiliation changes on Monday to Mark Logic, but he anticipates participating as usual.
15:08:09 <Zakim> +??P22
15:08:11 <Norm> ...without any changes.
15:08:32 <Norm> Let's add the items that Mohamed posted if there's time.
15:09:00 <Norm> Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
15:09:00 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/04/24-minutes
15:09:02 <Norm> Accepted.
15:09:07 <Norm> Topic: Next meeting: telcon 8 May 2008?
15:09:14 <Norm> No regrets given.
15:09:24 <Norm> Topic: New public working draft
15:09:26 <Norm> Was published today!
15:09:54 <Norm> Topic: Update to p:www-form-urlencode
15:10:07 <Norm> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Apr/0065.html
15:10:39 <Norm> Mohamed: I think URL encode would be useful if it could keep the content that is in the element that matches.
15:10:54 <Norm> ...The content could be, for example, the start of the URI.
15:12:14 <Norm> Norm: What would the option contain?
15:12:25 <Norm> Mohamed: My first idea was an option that says concatentate or not.
15:13:09 <Norm> Alex: Why not do what we did for generate-id, where we have an XPath expression.
15:13:55 <MSM> zakim, please call MSM-617
15:13:55 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
15:13:57 <Zakim> +MSM
15:14:01 <Norm> Norm: Ugh. Seems like a lot of complexity for a fairly narrow case.
15:14:10 <ht> So e.g. <p:w-f-e match="href"><p:with-param name="x" value="3"/></p:w-f-e>, with input <action href="http://www.example.org/service?"/>
15:14:28 <Norm> Present: Norm, Paul, Alex, Mohamed, Henry, Andrew, Richard, Michael [xx:15-]
15:14:29 <ht> would give <action href="http://www.example.org/service?x=3"/>
15:15:09 <Norm> Mohamed: I don't know if the "?" is in or not.
15:15:11 <Norm> Norm: It's not.
15:15:24 <Norm> Henry: Is there an obvious way to do this otherwise?
15:15:31 <Norm> ...It looks useful and hard to do any other way.
15:16:06 <Norm> Alex: You can manipulate the parameter port beforehand in any way you want.
15:16:20 <Norm> Norm: But this is for the GET case.
15:17:45 <Norm> Alex: Right now you'd have to use XSLT to combine the two.
15:19:20 <Norm> ...I think we should keep these concerns separate, otherwise it's a slippery slope.
15:19:39 <Norm> ...We have the match because we do this operation and we have to put the encoded string somewhere.
15:19:56 <Norm> ...But outside of the scope of perform this algorithm, I'm not sure that we need to more.
15:20:13 <Norm> ...If that's the case, then we need a better insertion algorithm.
15:20:48 <Norm> Mohamed argues about streamability.
15:21:21 <Norm> Henry: Can we back up one step? I'd like to bring www-form-urldecode into the discussion. I think these ought to be as straightforwardly semetrical as we can make them.
15:22:54 <Norm> Some discussion of where *decode* is likely to get its input.
15:23:44 <Norm> Alex: It's there for symmetry. It's a bit of an edge case.
15:24:07 <Norm> Henry: Then I want parse URL.
15:24:15 <Norm> Alex: Yes, that would be good.
15:24:29 <Norm> Norm: You can do what Mohamed wants with url-encode and string-replace
15:27:33 <Norm> <p:url-form-encode name="foo">
15:27:33 <Norm>   ...
15:27:33 <Norm> </p:url-form-encode>
15:27:33 <Norm> <p:variable name="param" select="..."/>
15:27:33 <Norm> <p:string-replace match="whatever">
15:27:34 <Norm>   <p:option name="replace" select="concat(.,$param)"/>
15:27:36 <Norm> </p:string-replace>
15:28:57 <Norm> Norm: Are you satisfied with that, Mohamed?
15:29:09 <Norm> Mohamed: Yes, but I think Henry has raised a good question about decoding.
15:29:30 <Norm> Henry: XPath 2.0 will let you do it, it'd be very hard with XPath 1.0.
15:30:02 <Norm> ...There's definitely a slippery slope here.
15:30:23 <Norm> Alex: There's a real need here, but it would be nice to have a URI-handling step that did a good job.
15:30:40 <Norm> Norm: Stop. We're way off topic, if that's a good idea, someone write a proposal.
15:30:45 <ht> What we're really talking about is microparsing and generating steps, I realise
15:31:49 <Norm> So we're not changing anything about p:www-form-urlencode.
15:32:00 <Norm> Topic: Short form of p:base-uri and p:resolve-uri
15:32:09 <Norm> Norm: For consistency with XPath 2.0, I think we need to leave them.
15:32:57 <Norm> ...we said they'd be exactly the same as the 2.0 functions, so we shouldn't change them.
15:33:05 <Norm> Accepted.
15:33:20 <Norm> Topic: Support for other media types in p:unescape-markujp
15:33:23 <Norm> s/ujp/up/
15:33:32 <Norm> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Apr/0095.html
15:34:23 <Norm> Leave until Vojtech can be present.
15:34:39 <Norm> Topic: Where are @psvi-required, @xpath-version, and @ignore-inline-prefixes allowed. And what are the rules for when they are nested?
15:35:37 <Norm> Proposal: Allow them all on p:pipeline, p:declare-step, and p:library. Also allow ignore-inline-prefixes on p:inline.
15:36:32 <Norm> Norm: I think a convenience for authors argument could be made for allowing ignore-inline-prefixes in more places, but I'm not going to make it.
15:36:51 <Norm> Mohamed: I think Jeni's point was that you could group it better if it was allowed anywhere.
15:37:19 <Norm> Richard: What about nesting?
15:37:26 <Norm> Norm: We don't say anything yet, that we'll have to decide.
15:37:36 <Norm> Henry: It's a lexically scoped union, so you can fix it.
15:37:57 <Norm> Norm: Any comments about where I propose to allow them?
15:39:05 <Norm> Mohamed: If it's allowed in p:declare-step, it will be allowed for both pipeline and atomic steps.
15:40:16 <Norm> Norm: Yes, it'll apply to default binding for p:inline.
15:41:35 <Norm> Some discussion of nesting for @xpath-version
15:42:08 <Norm> Norm: Everyone content with where I said they could go?
15:42:10 <Norm> Accepted.
15:42:20 <Norm> Norm: I think we have a nesting story for xpath-version
15:42:37 <Norm> Norm: I think the nesting story for ignore-inline-prefixes is lexical scope and union.
15:42:56 <Norm> Accepted.
15:44:22 <Norm> Henry: I think the semantics of psvi-required should be straightforward: if you don't have an implementation that can do PSVI, it's a dynamic error if you encounter one.
15:45:25 <Norm> Alex: If you're impl supports PSVI, then every step in your impl is using that API. So having a psvi-required=false doesn't mean you're not going to construct one.
15:46:12 <Norm> Norm: I think psvi-required=false is either pointless or serves only as documentation.
15:47:56 <Norm> Some discussion of the semantics.
15:50:52 <Norm> Alex: The psvi-required error is currently *static*
15:51:08 <Norm> Norm: I think that's silly, it should be dynamic.
15:52:59 <Norm> Proposed: Add a new system property taht says whetehr or not PSVIs are being used by this invocation fo this pipeline.
15:53:10 <MoZ> s/taht/that/
15:53:21 <MoZ> s/whetehr/whether/
15:53:23 <Norm> Accpted. Name to be determined by the editor.
15:55:41 <Norm> Mohamed: I think it would be better if the property just told you whether or not the implmentation *can* do PSVIs.
15:59:02 <Norm> Richard: What PSVI properties appear on documents?
15:59:18 <Norm> Richard: So a p:wrap step will throw out the PSVI properties.
15:59:20 <Norm> Henry: Right.
16:00:08 <Norm> Richard: So PSVI properties only arise from the steps that say they can produce them and other steps don't change them.
16:00:11 <Norm> Henry: I think that's right.
16:02:08 <Norm> ...Next week we should discuss what sort of preservation we want.
16:02:45 <Norm> Propsal: We make the psvi-required error a dynamic error.
16:02:48 <Norm> Accepted.
16:02:53 <Norm> Topic: Any other business?
16:02:56 <Norm> None heard.
16:03:01 <Zakim> -ht
16:03:04 <Zakim> -Norm
16:03:05 <Zakim> -richard
16:03:05 <Zakim> -Andrew
16:03:06 <Zakim> -MoZ
16:03:06 <Zakim> -PGrosso
16:03:07 <Zakim> -alexmilowski
16:03:09 <Zakim> -MSM
16:03:10 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
16:03:11 <Zakim> Attendees were Norm, PGrosso, alexmilowski, +95247aaaa, MoZ, Ht, Andrew, richard, MSM
16:04:04 <Norm> Adjourned
16:04:10 <Norm> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:04:14 <Norm> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:04:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/01-xproc-minutes.html Norm
16:06:29 <PGrosso> PGrosso has left #xproc
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