17:54:31 RRSAgent has joined #sml 17:54:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-sml-irc 17:54:39 Zakim has joined #sml 17:55:12 agenda at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Apr/0142.html 17:59:18 Kirk has joined #sml 17:59:27 zakim, please call MSM-617 17:59:28 sorry, MSM, I don't know what conference this is 17:59:35 zakim, this will be sml 17:59:35 ok, MSM, I see XML_SMLWG()2:00PM already started 17:59:39 zakim, please call MSM-617 17:59:39 ok, MSM; the call is being made 17:59:40 -Julia 17:59:40 +Julia 17:59:40 +MSM 17:59:54 zakim, who's here? 17:59:54 On the phone I see Julia, MSM 17:59:55 On IRC I see Kirk, Zakim, RRSAgent, pratul, julia, MSM, trackbot-ng 18:00:25 +[Microsoft] 18:00:53 Jordan has joined #sml 18:01:57 pratul has joined #sml 18:02:24 +[Microsoft.a] 18:02:36 +Kirk 18:03:09 Kumar has joined #sml 18:03:18 zakim, who's on the phone? 18:03:18 On the phone I see Julia, MSM, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], Kirk 18:03:19 -Julia 18:03:35 +Julia 18:03:50 +Jordan 18:04:59 +Sandy 18:05:37 Sandy has joined #sml 18:06:24 /scribe: Kumar 18:06:30 /scribenick: Kumar 18:06:36 /chair: Pratul 18:07:17 Zakim, Microsoft is me 18:07:17 +pratul; got it 18:07:21 topic: Approve minutes 18:07:31 Pratul: any objections to approving the minutes? 18:07:45 Pratul: no objections heard. Minutes approved. 18:08:43 topic: News from XML CG 18:08:55 Pratul: In their 4/21 call, the XML CG approved our F2F meeting in Redmond from 10/28 to 10/30. 18:09:06 topic: Review the bugs with new comments from Henry Thompson or David Ezell 18:09:14 topic: bug# 5524 18:12:35 scribe: Kumar 18:12:39 scribenick: Kumar 18:13:17 meeting: SML Tele-conference 18:13:24 chair: Pratul 18:14:19 msm: The section title 'mapping from schema' is actually correct because 'schema' does not have to mean only schema document. 18:16:32 I propose that I add, as an individual, the following comment to the bug, and then that the WG 'endorse' it (if we choose to). 18:16:32 Strictly speaking, I think the premise that elements and attributes 18:16:33 always originate in schema documents is at fault here. The section on 18:16:33 mapping from schema is talking about the mapping from an annotation 18:16:33 component (NOT an annotation source declaration), the contents of 18:16:34 which are element and attribute information items. 18:16:36 In the usual case, of course, the elements and attributes will have 18:16:38 originated in a schema document, but we wish also to cover the case 18:16:40 that the annotation component was born binary. Even in the latter 18:16:42 case, however, it will contain element and attribute information 18:16:44 items. 18:18:53 Pratul: does anyone object to endorsing this comment? 18:19:09 Pratul: no objections heard. I will go ahead and endorse this comment on behalf of the WG. 18:19:51 julia has joined #sml 18:20:33 topic: bug# 5543 18:20:49 julia has joined #sml 18:21:52 julia has joined #sml 18:23:18 + +1.408.480.aaaa 18:23:54 zulah has joined #sml 18:25:40 msm: explains the procedures involving addressing reviewer's comments. 18:28:14 msm: I believe we should add bare-name support to SML URI scheme. 18:29:50 Kumar: Henry's comment does not explain why he thinks our response is FUD. Our response does talk about bare-names which his example shows. 18:33:18 Zakim, who is making noise 18:33:18 I don't understand 'who is making noise', pratul 18:34:15 Pratul: explains the key aspects of the WG resolution during f2f. 18:37:17 zakim, who is making noise? 18:37:28 MSM, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pratul (94%), [Microsoft.a] (39%) 18:39:37 zakim, who is making noise? 18:39:44 ACTION: Kumar to look at minutes of f2f and summarize the discussion on this issue. 18:39:44 Created ACTION-181 - Look at minutes of f2f and summarize the discussion on this issue. [on Kumar Pandit - due 2008-05-01]. 18:39:49 MSM, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pratul (39%), [Microsoft.a] (35%), Kirk (9%) 18:39:57 zakim, who is making noise? 18:39:58 zakim, who is making noise? 18:40:11 pratul, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Julia (23%), pratul (37%), [Microsoft.a] (14%) 18:40:22 MSM, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pratul (15%), [Microsoft.a] (4%), Kirk (35%) 18:40:47 zakim, Microsoft.a is me 18:40:47 +Kumar; got it 18:41:28 -Julia 18:41:30 topic: #5544 18:42:12 +Julia 18:45:12 Kumar: Henry's use of the word 'target' is different from what the SML spec defines. The spec defines target to be an element. In order to find if the target element is present, one must descend in to a document. 18:49:06 Kumar: Msm's response to 5562 addresses this. One could define a ref scheme that acts as 'XML lens' (converts non-XML target into some XML representation). Such a scheme would allow targetRequired to apply to non-xml documents. 18:53:22 msm: We should use 'XML lens' idea as an argument here. The XML lens requires a lot of work (both implementation wise and conceptual) therefore may not be of interest to a lot of people. We should instead state that this is a trade-off between complexity and functionality. 18:56:08 s/We should use/We shouldn't use/ 18:57:00 - +1.408.480.aaaa 18:58:16 zakim, who is here? 18:58:16 On the phone I see MSM, pratul, Kumar, Kirk, Jordan, Sandy, Julia 18:58:17 On IRC I see zulah, julia, Sandy, Kumar, pratul, Jordan, Kirk, Zakim, RRSAgent, MSM, trackbot-ng 18:58:52 + +1.408.480.aabb 18:59:28 Pratul: The WG discussed this and decided to stick to the original resolution. We should add a comment to the bug with a summary of our discussion. 19:00:04 topic: bug# 5545 19:02:24 [I wonder if HT has confused himself a bit -- he says "you don't allow fragids (so you don't support 3986)", but what he means, I think is probably something more like "you don't allow all the fragids defined by the XML RFC, because it says barenames are OK and you don't allow them"] 19:04:27 Kumar: Henry's comment (bullet 1, comment# 3) is incorrect. He says that "You don't allow fragids". This is not correct because we do allow frag ids. 19:06:13 s/allow frag ids/allow frag ids encoded as smpxpath1() scheme/ 19:07:19 Here's what I plan to enter in the byg 19:08:34 The WG reviewed Comments 3 and 4 and decided that no change is needed since SML does support fragids using smlxpath1() scheme 19:09:15 [I finally located the draft replacement for RFC 3023, but it's expired and the IETF site won't show the text. https://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-murata-kohn-lilley-xml/] 19:10:53 The WG reviewed Comments 3 and 4 and believes that no change is needed since SML does support fragids using smlxpath1() scheme 19:11:30 resolution: The WG decided to add the comment typed by Pratul as a response to this bug. 19:11:51 topic: bug# 5546 19:18:23 Kumar: I had noted down some comments on RFC 2557. I will send a summary. 19:18:58 ACTION: Kumar to send comments on RFC2557/SML-IF comparison and start an email discussion thread. 19:18:59 Created ACTION-182 - Send comments on RFC2557/SML-IF comparison and start an email discussion thread. [on Kumar Pandit - due 2008-05-01]. 19:22:25 topic: bug# 5561 19:23:28 The WG appreciates your flexibility on this issue and expects that the proposed note will facilitate interoperability 19:24:44 perhaps 'interoperability of implementations of the XLink reference scheme' 19:25:23 Pratul: any objections to adding this comment to the bug as the WG's response? 19:25:33 Pratul: no objection heard. I will update the bug with this comment. 19:27:22 On 5562, I had an action to draft a response. Draft at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Apr/0126.html 19:27:32 Comments from Kumar and Kirk later in the thread. 19:27:47 topic: bug# 5562 19:31:44 Kumar: Msm has written an excellent response to this bug. 19:32:00 msm: Kirk has made useful suggestions regarding the response text. 19:32:18 Pratul: can you add the response to the bug so that Henry gets to read the response soon? 19:33:05 resolution: Msm to add the response to the bug. The WG will decide during the next call whether to endorse it as-is or with some updates. 19:33:42 [For the record, I should say I'll revise the response in light of KDW's comments before posting to Bugzilla. Thanks, Kirk!] 19:34:03 topic: bug# 5513 19:36:49 Zakim, who is making noise? 19:37:08 pratul, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: MSM (48%), pratul (7%) 19:37:39 Zakim, mute MSM 19:37:39 MSM should now be muted 19:38:23 I think DE updated the wrong bug 19:39:53 I think DE intended to endorse 5541 19:40:26 zakim, unmute me 19:40:26 MSM should no longer be muted 19:44:57 Kumar: I do not understand David's response in comment# 10. It appears to aimed at some other bug. 19:45:11 msm explains the context behind David's comment. 19:45:48 msm to summarize his understanding of David's comment and paste into IRC. 19:47:16 There may be some confusion here. 19:47:18 Henry's original comment raised, in a single paragraph, two distinct 19:47:20 technical issues. The issue of XLink support is now being tracked as 19:47:22 bug 5561; the issue of schemaless identification of references is now 19:47:24 bug 5541. 19:47:26 We agree with the XML Schema WG's view that it should be possible to 19:47:28 specify sml:ref attributes by adding them, with a default value to the 19:47:30 schema. Further details may be found in bug 5541. 19:51:25 The issue of base URIs is tracked in bug 5542. 19:53:51 resolution: the comment pasted by msm above is the official response of the WG. Pratul will paste that into the bug. 19:54:02 topic: bug# 5520 19:57:16 Sorry, Comment 1 had some incorrect boilerplate text. The non-normative note is being drafted and we'll update this bug with a link to the note when it is ready 19:57:53 resolution: The WG decided to add the response typed by Pratul as an interim response to this bug. 19:58:14 rrsagent, generate minutes 19:58:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-sml-minutes.html Kumar 19:58:16 -pratul 19:58:18 - +1.408.480.aabb 19:58:18 -MSM 19:58:20 -Kirk 19:58:20 -Jordan 19:58:22 rrsagent make minutes public 19:58:22 -Sandy 19:58:27 -Julia 19:58:29 rrsagent, make minutes public 19:58:29 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', Kumar. Try /msg RRSAgent help 19:59:11 rrsagent, make log public 19:59:17 -Kumar 19:59:19 XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended 19:59:21 Attendees were Julia, MSM, Kirk, Jordan, Sandy, pratul, +1.408.480.aaaa, Kumar, +1.408.480.aabb 21:56:13 julia has left #sml