14:58:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:58:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-irc
14:58:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:58:44 <mhausenblas> zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)
14:58:44 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:54 <mhausenblas> Meeting: W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2008-04-24, 15:00 UTC 
14:58:59 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Apr/0140.html
14:59:05 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/04/17-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2008-04-17
14:59:18 <msporny> thanks Michael :)
14:59:23 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Ben Adida
14:59:41 <msporny> sure, why not.
15:00:23 <mhausenblas> Chair: msporny
15:00:29 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
15:00:35 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:00:53 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:01:36 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:01:37 <Zakim> +??P27
15:01:42 <msporny> zakim, I am ??P27
15:01:42 <Zakim> +msporny; got it
15:01:48 <Ralph> Ralph has joined #rdfa
15:01:51 <Zakim> +ShaneM
15:01:56 <Zakim> +Michael_Hausenblas
15:01:59 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:01:59 <Zakim> +ShaneM
15:02:04 <Zakim> +Ralph
15:02:12 <Steven> Steven has joined #rdfa
15:02:29 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
15:02:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see msporny, ShaneM, Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph
15:02:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see Steven, Ralph, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, msporny, mhausenblas
15:02:46 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:03:36 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:03:36 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:03:38 <Zakim> +Steven
15:03:49 <mhausenblas> Topic: Action Items
15:03:58 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2008/04/17-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary
15:04:02 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben to chat immediately with Mark and see if the Primer is "good enough" for WG review. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
15:04:19 <mhausenblas> -- done
15:04:29 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben to respond to ISSUE-109 with (if possible) pointers to past discussion of @cite [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
15:04:34 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:04:48 <mhausenblas> [NEW] ACTION: Ben to respond to issue 87 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/28-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
15:04:53 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:04:59 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
15:05:03 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:05:11 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to follow up on media type discussion with Steven, Ralph, and TAG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
15:05:19 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:05:29 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Manu to enable EARL output in RDFa Test Harness [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
15:05:35 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:05:58 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Mark to move _:a bnode notation to normative section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
15:06:20 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:06:29 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Mark/Shane include issue 89 correction in Changes section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
15:06:37 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:06:45 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
15:06:51 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:06:58 <mhausenblas> [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to review response to Christian Hoertnagl. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
15:07:06 <mhausenblas> -- continues
15:07:36 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-114: RDFa for dynamic content?
15:07:45 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/114 issue 114
15:09:21 <mhausenblas> Manu: Using RDFa in dynamic content
15:09:56 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Apr/0116.html Ralph's proposed response
15:10:22 <Ralph> Michael: this is a hard problem to deal with
15:10:36 <Ralph> ... doing something locally in ajax and then piping it to another system
15:10:54 <Ralph> Steven: it depends on the order of processing
15:10:55 <mhausenblas> http://143.224.254.32/irs/
15:11:29 <Ralph> ... if the dynamic part is done first then, e.g., Ben's applet will just work
15:13:03 <Ralph> ... our processing rules say "if you find such-and-such an attribute, then do this ..."
15:13:29 <Ralph> ... the rules don't say how you go about finding the attributes; this can be part of some dynamic process
15:14:23 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/113
15:14:35 <Ralph> Michael: I'm wondering how I would implement a dynamically-loaded RDFa from clicking on a DIV and then send that RDF elsewhere
15:14:49 <Ralph> Manu: your question, Michael, seems more appropriate for issue 113
15:15:10 <Ralph> ... issue 113 concerns copy & paste operations; clipboard operations
15:15:29 <Ralph> ... how to export XHTML such that the namespaces are preserved
15:16:54 <Ralph> Shane: in Michael's situation, a server-side RDFa implementation will have difficulty but a client-side RDFa implementation won't
15:17:15 <Ralph> ... we don't make a distinction between the server- and client- processing in the spec
15:17:49 <Ralph> ... so if the client has dynamic changes, a server-side RDFa implementation simply won't see them
15:17:53 <Ralph> Michael: and I see that as a problem
15:18:18 <Ralph> ... from a Web2.0 developer point of view I believe this will be a problem
15:19:19 <Ralph> ... I am willing to write some suggested 'good practices' in the RDFa wiki
15:19:51 <Ralph> Manu: yes, would be nice to have a set of recipes for how to communicate data from a client back to the server
15:21:14 <Ralph> i/this is a hard problem/scribenick: ralph
15:21:20 <Ralph> scribenick: mhausenblas
15:21:59 <mhausenblas> Proposal: Use Ralphs answer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Apr/0116.html
15:22:37 <mhausenblas> ... and Michael's good practice description at the RDFa Wiki how to deal with this issue
15:24:04 <msporny> PROPOSE: ISSUE-114 use Ralphs response to reply to PFWG - while changing the syntax document would take a long time, we will create a section on the wiki to address dynamic modification of XHTML, and use Ralph's answer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Apr/0116.html and have Michael update the language to note that he's working on getting a recipes page on the wiki.
15:25:51 <msporny> PROPOSE: ISSUE-114 Manu to use Ralphs response to reply to PFWG - it is not obvious that there is a tractable solution to the full problem, we will create a section on the wiki to address dynamic modification of XHTML, and use Ralph's answer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Apr/0116.html.
15:26:10 <msporny> PROPOSE: ISSUE-114 Manu to use Ralphs response to reply to PFWG - it is not obvious that there is a tractable solution to the full problem, we will create a section on the wiki to address dynamic modification of XHTML.
15:26:20 <Ralph> (with some reference to the special challenge of server-side processors)
15:26:37 <mhausenblas> +1
15:27:07 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Apr/0144.html Mark expresses support for Ralph's draft response
15:27:58 <mhausenblas> RESOLVED: ISSUE-114 Manu to use Ralphs response to reply to PFWG - it is not obvious that there is a tractable solution to the full problem, we will create a section on the wiki to address dynamic modification of XHTML with some reference to the special challenge of server-side processors).
15:28:13 <Ralph> Regrets+ Mark
15:28:35 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Manu to reply PFWG regarding ISSUE-114
15:28:52 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Michael to add a sectionto Wiki regarding ISSUE-114
15:30:00 <mhausenblas> Shane: How about resolution in tracker?
15:30:21 <mhausenblas> Ralph: That is: No change in the syntax document regarding ISSUE-114
15:31:01 <msporny> Manu: +1
15:32:01 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/116
15:32:02 <mhausenblas> s/RESOLVED: ISSUE-114 Manu to use Ralphs response to reply to PFWG - it is not obvious that there is a tractable solution to the full problem, we will create a section on the wiki to address dynamic modification of XHTML with some reference to the special challenge of server-side processors)./RESOLVED: ISSUE-114 Manu to use Ralphs response to reply to PFWG. No change in the syntax document needed as it is not obvious that there is a tractable solution to t
15:33:20 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-116: Safe CURIEs using "curie:dc:creator"?
15:33:57 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Apr/0115.html Ralph's proposed response
15:34:16 <mhausenblas> Shane: Ralph's comment is good
15:34:30 <mhausenblas> Shane: But we don't actually use XMLNS
15:36:58 <mhausenblas> ... that is we don't rely on it in the spec
15:38:17 <Steven> q+
15:38:30 <mhausenblas> ack Steven
15:38:50 <mhausenblas> Steven: That means we do have interop with HTML
15:39:01 <mhausenblas> Shane: Regarding validation
15:40:24 <ShaneM> I love this part of the reply: The Group does not feel that this would be
15:40:24 <ShaneM> a brief discussion.
15:40:51 <mhausenblas> PROPOSE: ISSUE-116 Manu to use Ralphs response (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Apr/0115.html) 
15:41:21 <msporny> +1
15:41:29 <ShaneM> +1
15:42:48 <mhausenblas> RESOLVED: ISSUE-1146 Manu to use Ralphs response to reply to PFWG. No change in the syntax document needed. 
15:43:04 <mhausenblas> s/ISSUE-1146/ISSUE-116 
15:43:48 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-11: RDFa Primer document
15:44:46 <mhausenblas> Manu: Let's contact both Elias and Lee and ask if there comments still apply (as major parts have changed)
15:45:46 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/11
15:46:51 <mhausenblas> PROPOSE: Respond to Elias and Lee that the Primer has changed substantially and invite for new comments
15:48:23 <msporny> +1
15:48:32 <msporny> Manu: We also want to close this issue.
15:49:17 <mhausenblas> RESOLVED: ISSUE-11 Michael to respond to Elias and Lee that the RDFa Primer has changed substantially and invite for new comments. This issue is closed.
15:49:19 <msporny> +1
15:49:37 <mhausenblas> Action: Michael to reply to Elias and Lee regarding ISSUE-11
15:49:45 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/43
15:49:52 <Ralph> (while those comments for issue 11 refer to "Primer" at the time they were written, recall that the most current version of the specification was in the Primer)
15:49:54 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-43: Primer should link to the URIs of the assumed namespaces
15:51:42 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Sep/0081.html Ben believes issue 43 is closed
15:52:34 <mhausenblas> Ralph: Can be done by Michael when answering ISSUE-11
15:53:30 <mhausenblas> PROPOSE: ISSUE-43 Michael to answer Lee and Elias together with ISSUE-11
15:53:50 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:53:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-minutes.html Steven
15:55:26 <msporny> PROPOSE: ISSUE-43 Michael to answer Lee's comments for Issue 43 in the same e-mail as Issue 11, noting that the Primer and Syntax Document have changed significantly and issues seem to have been addressed. Invite for further comments.
15:56:04 <msporny> PROPOSE: ISSUE-43 Michael to answer Lee's comments for Issue 43 in the same e-mail as Issue 11, noting that the Primer and Syntax Document have changed significantly and issues seem to have been addressed. Invite for further comments. This issue is closed, no changes to the documents.
15:56:12 <mhausenblas> +1
15:56:19 <Ralph> +1
15:56:20 <ShaneM> +1
15:56:30 <mhausenblas> RESOLVED:  ISSUE-43 Michael to answer Lee's comments for Issue 43 in the same e-mail as Issue 11, noting that the Primer and Syntax Document have changed significantly and issues seem to have been addressed. Invite for further comments. This issue is closed, no changes to the documents.
15:56:58 <msporny> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/113
15:57:15 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-113: clarify situation around document fragments containing RDFa
15:58:00 <mhausenblas> Manu: Question how to deal with clipboard operations (fragments of XHTML+RDFa) 
15:59:26 <mhausenblas> Shane: Does not generally apply ... can't be done
15:59:57 <mhausenblas> Michael: USe case is important (that's what people know from uF, such as hCard, hCalendar, etc.)
16:00:07 <mhausenblas> ... but agree with Shane
16:00:23 <mhausenblas> Ralph: Namespace is trivial
16:01:39 <mhausenblas> Shane: We need to ensure that the whole document is processed
16:01:58 <Ralph> Shane: specifically w.r.t. the comment "Please specify processing rules and conditions that apply to document fragments containing RDFa" we can't do this
16:02:02 <Ralph> Ralph: I agree
16:02:07 <mhausenblas> +1
16:03:07 <mhausenblas> Shane: We should write about it in good practice on the Wiki, for example
16:03:16 <Ralph> PROPOSE: our response to issue 113 is "RDFa 1.0 processing is not specified on document _fragments_"
16:03:28 <mhausenblas> +1
16:03:29 <msporny> +1
16:03:32 <ShaneM> +1
16:04:21 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:04:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:04:22 <Ralph> Shane: not sure if Ben would agree
16:04:29 <Ralph> Ralph: so let's wait 'till next telecon
16:04:42 <ShaneM> Just for context.  What I mean here is that fragments can move among documents, but they MUST be processed in the context of the new document.  They CANNOT be processed independently.  Period.
16:06:17 <Steven> +1 to that
16:06:21 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2008/04/22-swd-minutes.html#item03
16:07:31 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule
16:08:50 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:10:14 <Zakim> -Steven
16:10:15 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:10:15 <Zakim> -Michael_Hausenblas
16:10:17 <Zakim> -msporny
16:10:17 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
16:10:19 <Zakim> Attendees were msporny, ShaneM, Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Steven
16:10:21 <mhausenblas> Zakim, list attendees
16:10:21 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I don't know what conference this is
16:10:30 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
16:10:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:10:55 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
16:11:05 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
16:11:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:12:03 <mhausenblas> Zakim, bye
16:12:03 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
16:12:10 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, bye
16:12:10 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-actions.rdf :
16:12:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu to reply PFWG regarding ISSUE-114 [1]
16:12:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-irc#T15-28-35
16:12:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to add a sectionto Wiki regarding ISSUE-114 [2]
16:12:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-irc#T15-28-52
16:12:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to reply to Elias and Lee regarding ISSUE-11 [3]
16:12:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-rdfa-irc#T15-49-37