IRC log of rif on 2008-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:46 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:31:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/22-rif-irc
14:31:57 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:31:57 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 29 minutes
14:32:15 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 22 Apr 2008
14:32:21 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
14:37:24 [sandro]
Hi, Harold, sorry no. Looking now.
14:38:33 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0104.html
14:38:57 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: 22 Apr RIF Telecon Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/0104.html
14:39:22 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:39:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/22-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:39:39 [ChrisW]
zakim, clear agenda
14:39:39 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
14:39:44 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
14:40:01 [ChrisW]
agenda+ F2F10
14:40:07 [sandro]
Harold, I'm not sure I understand. You're saying you and Michael made changes at the same time and that, unlike usually, some of the changes were silently lost?
14:40:07 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Actions review
14:40:35 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
14:41:04 [ChrisW]
agenda+ LC Todo: Clear items from CP
14:41:16 [ChrisW]
agenda+ LC Todo: Metadata
14:41:26 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Entailment regimes
14:41:30 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
14:47:51 [sandro]
Harold, I replied to your e-mail
14:51:02 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:59:29 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif
15:00:02 [der]
der has joined #rif
15:00:18 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:00:20 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
15:00:24 [Zakim]
+Hassan_Ait-Kaci
15:00:25 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
15:00:32 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:00:38 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
15:00:50 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:00:50 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:01:01 [Zakim]
+??P26
15:01:19 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:01:19 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
15:01:31 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:01:31 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:01:33 [Zakim]
+josb
15:01:55 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Harold, Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Mike_Dean, DaveReynolds, ChrisW, josb
15:02:11 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:02:24 [ChrisW]
Scribe: GaryHallmark
15:02:32 [ChrisW]
zakim, Gary_Hallmark is GaryHallmark
15:02:32 [Zakim]
+GaryHallmark; got it
15:02:43 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:02:43 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:02:52 [Harold]
Sandro, my changes were finished, everything was fine in Michael's first round on top of mine, but then my changes were apparently silently lost in his second round on top of mine.
15:03:21 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Accept minutes of Apr 15 telecon
15:03:27 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/att-0092/15-rif-minutes.html
15:03:35 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Accept minutes of Apr 15 telecon
15:03:53 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:04:14 [GaryHallmark]
Harold: Axel want to discuss DTB
15:04:21 [GaryHallmark]
s/want/wants
15:04:31 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:04:31 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "F2F10" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:05:00 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:05:20 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:05:26 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:05:26 [Zakim]
2. F2F10 [from ChrisW]
15:05:27 [Zakim]
3. Actions review [from ChrisW]
15:05:29 [Zakim]
4. Liason [from ChrisW]
15:05:31 [Zakim]
5. LC Todo: Clear items from CP [from ChrisW]
15:05:33 [Zakim]
6. LC Todo: Metadata [from ChrisW]
15:05:35 [Zakim]
8. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:05:42 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 3
15:05:47 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Actions review" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:06:58 [Zakim]
+??P50
15:08:04 [GaryHallmark]
Jos: no reply to email about functions and operators
15:08:31 [GaryHallmark]
Sandro: will send email
15:09:48 [Harold]
Instead of a two-step interpretation for builtin-predicates Itruth ? (Iexternal(s)) (the composition of Itruth and Iexternal(s), a truth-valued function), we defined a single Interpretation, Iexternal(s) D* ? TV here
15:09:58 [GaryHallmark]
Axel: need to iterate with Michael about semantics of builtin predicates
15:10:02 [Harold]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/DTB#Semantics_of_Built-ins
15:10:02 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:10:08 [ChrisW]
zakim, take item 2
15:10:08 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take item 2', ChrisW
15:10:11 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 2
15:10:11 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "F2F10" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:10:45 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer
15:10:55 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:10:55 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:11:03 [GaryHallmark]
Sandro: people should indicate f2f10 plans using survey. Sandro will add link to survey page
15:11:17 [AxelPolleres]
may 10th is fine.
15:11:29 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:11:29 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:11:29 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f10/
15:11:30 [Zakim]
2. F2F10 [from ChrisW]
15:11:30 [Zakim]
3. Actions review [from ChrisW]
15:11:32 [Zakim]
4. Liason [from ChrisW]
15:11:33 [Zakim]
5. LC Todo: Clear items from CP [from ChrisW]
15:11:34 [Zakim]
6. LC Todo: Metadata [from ChrisW]
15:11:34 [Zakim]
8. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:11:54 [ChrisW]
TOPIC: DTB
15:12:21 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:12:21 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
15:13:40 [GaryHallmark]
Axel: will discuss with Michael and produce stable DTB by Monday
15:13:54 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 5
15:13:54 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "LC Todo: Clear items from CP" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:13:57 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:13:57 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:14:01 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ToDo_before_BLD_last_call
15:15:01 [GaryHallmark]
Chris: has prepared a list (rather long) of pending issues for last call
15:16:00 [ChrisW]
PROPOSAL: ISSUE-37 is not in critical path for BLD
15:16:30 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: ISSUE-37 is not in critical path for BLD
15:16:53 [GaryHallmark]
Chris: issue 37 is Interoperation with Object-Oriented XML
15:17:20 [GaryHallmark]
... issue 38 is Interoperation with Arbitrary XML (like SAX/DOM)
15:17:34 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:17:34 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer was already muted, MichaelKifer
15:17:41 [ChrisW]
PROPOSAL: ISSUE-38 is not in critical path for BLD
15:17:59 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: ISSUE-38 is not in critical path for BLD
15:18:45 [GaryHallmark]
... issue 48 is classification concepts in Core
15:19:13 [GaryHallmark]
... Core issues is not on critical path for BLD
15:19:24 [ChrisW]
PROPOSAL: ISSUE-48 is not critical path for BLD
15:19:34 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: ISSUE-48 is not critical path for BLD
15:20:01 [GaryHallmark]
... issue 46 is Modules in RIF
15:20:30 [GaryHallmark]
... Modules are an extension of "import"
15:20:52 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: ISSUE-46 is not critical path for BLD
15:21:02 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: ISSUE-46 is not critical path for BLD
15:21:31 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ToDo_before_BLD_last_call
15:21:52 [josb]
q+
15:22:50 [ChrisW]
ack jos
15:23:09 [GaryHallmark]
Jos: would like to discuss imports
15:23:30 [GaryHallmark]
chris: ok, first let's quickly go over the entire list
15:24:39 [GaryHallmark]
... added new issues: comments and preservation of metadata
15:25:54 [GaryHallmark]
... does BLD have profiles?
15:26:35 [GaryHallmark]
... extensibility, fallbacks
15:26:42 [GaryHallmark]
... import, include
15:27:37 [GaryHallmark]
... 4 syntax issues: naming, striping, XML-RDF, shortcuts in presentation syntax
15:28:19 [DaveReynolds]
q-
15:28:41 [GaryHallmark]
topic: metadata issues
15:29:06 [Harold]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#EBNF_for_the_RIF-BLD_Rule_Language
15:29:52 [Hassan]
+1 with ChrisW
15:30:18 [GaryHallmark]
Chris: keep condition and rule syntax together
15:30:23 [josb]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Annotations
15:31:39 [Hassan]
q+
15:31:44 [GaryHallmark]
Chris: Jos' syntax has a <Rule> element, curernt syntax has <Group> as container for rules
15:31:45 [josb]
q+
15:31:51 [MichaelKifer]
q+
15:33:13 [ChrisW]
ack hassan
15:33:58 [hak]
hak has joined #rif
15:34:14 [GaryHallmark]
Jos: my metadata syntax does not use frame syntax
15:34:37 [Zakim]
-Hassan_Ait-Kaci
15:35:01 [Zakim]
+Hassan_Ait-Kaci
15:35:10 [Harold]
"One man's metadata is another man's data."
15:35:20 [DaveReynolds]
q+
15:35:21 [GaryHallmark]
... would like to distinguish between singleton rulesets and rules
15:35:28 [Zakim]
-Hassan_Ait-Kaci
15:35:38 [ChrisW]
ack josb
15:35:39 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:35:40 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
15:35:46 [GaryHallmark]
... i.e. would like metadata on rules, not only on singleton rulesets
15:36:10 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif
15:36:26 [Zakim]
+Hassan_Ait-Kaci
15:36:34 [GaryHallmark]
mkifer: thinks the Group container is ok
15:37:43 [Harold]
The new proposal follows Occam's razor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
15:37:51 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:37:51 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:37:52 [GaryHallmark]
... also, use of Frames is better for rule languages that don't support RDF
15:38:44 [GaryHallmark]
jos: can immediately process frame metadata -- would need an extra step anyway to extract metadata to a separate ruleset
15:38:55 [GaryHallmark]
s/can/cannot
15:38:58 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:38:58 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
15:39:07 [ChrisW]
q?
15:39:16 [ChrisW]
ack MichaelKifer
15:39:28 [Harold]
Jos, this is not an extraction step in the sense of information extraction. It's just retrieving the filler of the role <meta>.
15:39:41 [GaryHallmark]
mkifer: but at least with Frames you don't need a mapping from RDF->Frames to process metadata w/rules
15:39:50 [Harold]
That filler, then, is in our own RIF language.
15:40:01 [DaveReynolds]
ack me
15:40:03 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:40:03 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:40:47 [GaryHallmark]
dave: agrees that a Rule should have metadata w/o having to wrap in a Group
15:41:23 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:41:23 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
15:41:50 [GaryHallmark]
... RDF syntax seems to allow nested metadata, but not Frames
15:42:22 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:42:22 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:42:56 [Hassan]
q+
15:43:16 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:43:16 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
15:44:28 [GaryHallmark]
chris: the 2 syntaxes are close -- primarily whether metadata can be attached to a group vs a single rule
15:44:58 [GaryHallmark]
... document => ruleset, group => rule, same number of grammar rules
15:46:11 [GaryHallmark]
jos: no way to group rules vs no way to express metadata on a single rule
15:46:14 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:46:14 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:46:53 [GaryHallmark]
... difference between a rule and a group of one rule
15:47:27 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:47:27 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
15:47:41 [GaryHallmark]
hassan: why can't attach metadata to both Rule and Group?
15:47:59 [GaryHallmark]
s/can't/can't we/
15:49:41 [sandro]
q?
15:49:47 [Hassan]
q-
15:50:28 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:50:28 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer was not muted, MichaelKifer
15:50:47 [sandro]
Chris: how about: keep the group element (with some name) and add back in the "rule" terminal symbol
15:51:07 [GaryHallmark]
chris: can we merge the proposals by adding <Rule> tag that accepts same metadata as <Group>?
15:51:15 [GaryHallmark]
mkifer: strongly objects
15:51:32 [josb]
Formula?
15:52:08 [GaryHallmark]
... term "rule" is misleading for FLD
15:52:33 [GaryHallmark]
chris: what about "formula" instead of rule?
15:52:46 [GaryHallmark]
hassan: but the R in RIF is for Rule
15:53:04 [sandro]
how about "Item" -- it's as neutral as "Group"
15:53:09 [GaryHallmark]
mkifer: what about queries, constraints
15:53:16 [Harold]
Here's an example of a singleton Group:
15:53:16 [Harold]
Group "http://sample.org"^^rif:iri["dc:publisher"^^rif:iri->"w3:W3C"^^rif:iri]
15:53:16 [Harold]
(
15:53:16 [Harold]
Forall ?item (
15:53:16 [Harold]
"cpt:reject"^^rif:iri("ppl:Fred"^^rif:iri ?item) :- "cpt:unsolicited"^^rif:iri(?item)
15:53:17 [Harold]
)
15:53:19 [Harold]
)
15:53:29 [AxelPolleres]
what about "fiffi"?
15:54:05 [sandro]
or "Entry"
15:54:10 [GaryHallmark]
mkifer: using "formula" requires reworking existing use of formulas in documents
15:55:34 [Harold]
q+
15:56:27 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:56:27 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:56:37 [ChrisW]
ack harold
15:56:50 [GaryHallmark]
hassan: groups are used for 2 purposes and should just be used for grouping rules rather than providing a place to attach metadata to a single rule
15:58:14 [GaryHallmark]
chris: what is the objection to adding a terminal for a single rule/formula?
15:58:43 [GaryHallmark]
harold: don't want a mandatory terminal
15:59:05 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:59:05 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
15:59:08 [GaryHallmark]
jos: ok, as long as it is possible
15:59:31 [GaryHallmark]
... different terminal symbol depending on whether the content is singleton or not
15:59:32 [sandro]
PROPOSED: add an optional terminal like "Rule" or "Formula" or something to wrap a single formula, for adding metadata
15:59:53 [ChrisW]
RULE ::= 'Forall' Var+ '(' CLAUSE ')' | CLAUSE
16:00:20 [sandro]
PROPOSED: add an optional terminal like "Rule" or "Formula" or something to wrap a single formula (called non-terminal RULE in BLD draft), for adding metadata
16:00:31 [ChrisW]
RULE ::= Rule IRIMETA? ('Forall' Var+ '(' CLAUSE ')' | CLAUSE)
16:00:39 [MichaelKifer]
rule is unacceptable from the fld point of view and also from the point of view of dialects that allow constraints and queries
16:01:00 [ChrisW]
RULE ::= ['Rule' IRIMETA?]? ('Forall' Var+ '(' CLAUSE ')' | CLAUSE)
16:01:05 [Hassan]
yes
16:02:01 [Harold]
q+
16:02:44 [ChrisW]
RULE ::= ['Formula' IRIMETA?]? ('Forall' Var+ '(' CLAUSE ')' | CLAUSE)
16:04:06 [GaryHallmark]
mkifer: "formula" slightly better than "rule" but still seems like "syntax pollution"
16:04:17 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:04:17 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:04:27 [Harold]
<Group card="1">
16:04:27 [Harold]
<meta>
16:04:27 [Harold]
<Frame>
16:04:27 [Harold]
<object>
16:04:27 [Harold]
<Const type="rif:iri">http://sample.org</Const>
16:04:28 [Harold]
</object>
16:04:30 [Harold]
<slot>
16:04:32 [Harold]
<Prop>
16:04:34 [Harold]
<key><Const type="rif:iri">dc:publisher</Const></key>
16:04:36 [Harold]
<val><Const type="rif:iri">w3:W3C</Const></val>
16:04:38 [Harold]
</Prop>
16:04:40 [Harold]
</slot>
16:04:42 [Harold]
</Frame>
16:04:44 [Harold]
</meta>
16:04:46 [Harold]
<sentence>
16:04:48 [Harold]
<Forall>
16:04:50 [Harold]
<declare><Var>item</Var></declare>
16:04:52 [Harold]
<formula>
16:04:52 [sandro]
-1 using attribute like that
16:04:54 [Harold]
<Implies>
16:04:56 [Harold]
<if>
16:04:58 [Harold]
<Atom>
16:04:58 [Hassan]
q+
16:05:00 [Harold]
<op><Const type="rif:iri">cpt:unsolicited</Const></op>
16:05:02 [Harold]
<arg><Var>item</Var></arg>
16:05:04 [Harold]
</Atom>
16:05:06 [Harold]
</if>
16:05:08 [Harold]
<then>
16:05:10 [Harold]
<Atom>
16:05:12 [Harold]
<op><Const type="rif:iri">cpt:reject</Const></op>
16:05:14 [Harold]
<arg><Const type="rif:iri">ppl:Fred</Const></arg>
16:05:16 [Harold]
<arg><Var>item</Var></arg>
16:05:18 [Harold]
</Atom>
16:05:20 [Harold]
</then>
16:05:22 [Harold]
</Implies>
16:05:24 [Harold]
</formula>
16:05:24 [ChrisW]
ack harold
16:05:26 [Harold]
</Forall>
16:05:26 [ChrisW]
ack hassan
16:05:28 [Harold]
</sentence>
16:05:30 [Harold]
</Group>
16:05:47 [GaryHallmark]
harold: use of "cardinality" attribute could be used instead of Group + Formula
16:05:51 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:05:51 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:06:12 [GaryHallmark]
sandro: singleton group is not the same as its content
16:07:47 [GaryHallmark]
hassan: production rules each have a name. Odd to have to wrap each in a Group in order to carry the name metadata
16:08:16 [ChrisW]
RULE ::= ['Formula' IRIMETA?]? ('Forall' Var+ '(' CLAUSE ')' | CLAUSE)
16:08:41 [GaryHallmark]
chrisw: who objects to this?
16:08:52 [MichaelKifer]
-1
16:09:40 [sandro]
MichaelKifer: instead of "Group" say "Block" -- something that can easily have one thing.
16:09:48 [sandro]
Hassan: call it "Meta"
16:09:50 [GaryHallmark]
mkifer: Group has just one purpose - to carry metadata. There are no modules in RIF just yet.
16:09:51 [sandro]
MichaelKifer: Fine!
16:09:54 [Harold]
<Meta> would be fine with me, too.
16:10:13 [ChrisW]
Group ::= 'Meta' IRIMETA? '(' (RULE | Group)* ')'
16:10:20 [josb]
q+
16:10:21 [Harold]
We would just need to change the lower-case <meta> role tag.
16:10:37 [Harold]
Meta ::= 'Meta' IRIMETA? '(' (RULE | Group)* ')'
16:11:05 [Harold]
Meta ::= 'Meta' IRIMETA? '(' (RULE | Meta)* ')'
16:12:35 [GaryHallmark]
jos: not so happy because it doesn't change the fact that a single rule can't have direct metadata
16:12:38 [MichaelKifer]
q-
16:13:11 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:13:11 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer was not muted, MichaelKifer
16:13:40 [Harold]
The XML above example would change to <Meta><annotation>...</annotation><sentence>...</sentence></Meta>.
16:14:07 [Hassan]
I give up ... let us use a meta wrapper to introduce meta stuff around anything
16:15:29 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:15:29 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:18:34 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:18:34 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:18:57 [ChrisW]
RULE ::= ['Formula' IRIMETA?]? ('Forall' Var+ '(' CLAUSE ')' | CLAUSE)
16:19:00 [ChrisW]
Group ::= 'Meta' IRIMETA? '(' (RULE | Group)* ')'
16:19:28 [Harold]
Meta ::= 'Meta' IRIMETA? '(' (RULE | Meta)* ')'
16:21:07 [GaryHallmark]
chris: take strawpoll about preferences
16:21:19 [ChrisW]
"FORMULA" Proposal
16:21:49 [Hassan]
+1 although I would use Meta rather than Formula
16:21:50 [MichaelKifer]
-1
16:21:53 [DaveReynolds]
+0.5
16:21:53 [GaryHallmark]
+1 but call it Rule in honor of RIF
16:21:53 [sandro]
NONBINDING-PROPOSED: add a terminal for individual rules
16:22:02 [josb]
+0.5 would rather get rid of Group altogether
16:22:06 [mdean]
+1
16:22:07 [sandro]
+1
16:22:17 [Harold]
-0.5
16:22:30 [AxelPolleres]
+0.5
16:22:32 [josb]
(would also prefer calling it "Rule")
16:22:32 [ChrisW]
"Meta" proposal
16:22:35 [Harold]
+1
16:22:37 [sandro]
NONBINDING-PROPOSED: renamed "Group" to "Meta"
16:22:38 [Hassan]
+0.5
16:22:46 [josb]
-1
16:22:46 [sandro]
+0
16:22:51 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:22:53 [DaveReynolds]
-0
16:22:58 [mdean]
0
16:23:09 [GaryHallmark]
-1 just attach metadata to ruleset as Jos proposed
16:24:43 [GaryHallmark]
there's always Ralf Nader :-)
16:24:49 [AxelPolleres]
q+
16:24:53 [josb]
q-
16:25:35 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:25:35 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer was not muted, MichaelKifer
16:27:20 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:27:20 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:27:53 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:27:53 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:28:02 [Harold]
The attachment point for metadata: The set of rules defining one predicate are sometimes called a 'definition' (in Prolog are called a 'procedure').
16:28:05 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:28:05 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:28:26 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
16:28:27 [Zakim]
-Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:28:27 [Zakim]
-josb
16:28:31 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
16:28:32 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:28:34 [Zakim]
-DaveReynolds
16:28:35 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
16:28:36 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:28:37 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Mike_Dean, Harold, ChrisW, josb, DaveReynolds, GaryHallmark, Sandro, AxelPolleres, MichaelKifer
16:28:59 [ChrisW]
Regrets: IgorMozetic AdrianPaschke LeoraMorgenstern
16:29:07 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:29:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/22-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:29:31 [Zakim]
-GaryHallmark
16:30:27 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:30:29 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:30:29 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:30:31 [Zakim]
Attendees were Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Mike_Dean, Harold, ChrisW, josb, DaveReynolds, GaryHallmark, Sandro, AxelPolleres, MichaelKifer