IRC log of owl on 2008-04-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:45:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #owl
16:45:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/09-owl-irc
16:45:24 [jeremy_]
Zakim, this will be OWL.
16:45:24 [Zakim]
ok, jeremy_; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 45 minutes ago
16:45:51 [jeremy_]
scribenick: jeremy
16:50:59 [IanH]
IanH has joined #owl
16:50:59 [baojie]
baojie has joined #owl
16:52:00 [bcuencagrau]
bcuencagrau has joined #owl
16:53:33 [Ivan]
Ivan has joined #owl
16:55:29 [Zakim]
SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started
16:55:36 [Zakim]
+ +0186527aaaa
16:55:53 [IanH]
zakim, aaaa is IanH
16:55:53 [Zakim]
+IanH; got it
16:56:55 [Zakim]
+??P20
16:57:02 [jeremy_]
Zakim, ??P20 is me
16:57:02 [Zakim]
+jeremy_; got it
16:57:54 [MartinD]
MartinD has joined #OWL
16:58:32 [baojie]
baojie has joined #owl
16:59:37 [jeremy_]
scribenick: jeremy_
17:00:15 [Zakim]
+ +39.047.101.aabb
17:00:44 [msmith]
msmith has joined #owl
17:00:44 [Zakim]
+??P34
17:00:48 [Zhe]
Zhe has joined #owl
17:00:51 [bcuencagrau]
Zakim, ??P34 is me
17:00:51 [Zakim]
+bcuencagrau; got it
17:01:05 [bcuencagrau]
Zakim, mute me
17:01:05 [Zakim]
bcuencagrau should now be muted
17:01:12 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.408.aacc
17:01:28 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aadd
17:01:40 [Zhe]
Zakim, +1.603.897.aadd is me
17:01:41 [Zakim]
+Zhe; got it
17:01:47 [jeremy_]
If anyone knows how to change the title of the meeting in IRC please do so; it is out of date.
17:02:10 [Ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
17:02:10 [Zakim]
ok, Ivan; the call is being made
17:02:11 [Zakim]
+Ivan
17:02:17 [msmith]
msmith has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.04.09/Agenda
17:02:18 [Zakim]
+Evan_Wallace
17:02:29 [Zakim]
+ +0190827aaee
17:02:37 [MartinD]
zakim, aaee is me
17:02:37 [Zakim]
+MartinD; got it
17:02:39 [ewallace]
ewallace has joined #owl
17:02:40 [jeremy_]
thanks mike
17:02:46 [MartinD]
zakim, mute me
17:02:48 [Zakim]
MartinD should now be muted
17:03:14 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
17:03:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see IanH, jeremy_, +39.047.101.aabb, bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, Zhe, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, MartinD (muted)
17:03:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ewallace, Zhe, msmith, MartinD, Ivan, bcuencagrau, IanH, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy_, sandro, trackbot-ng
17:03:48 [Ivan]
zakim, aabb is Diego
17:03:48 [Zakim]
+Diego; got it
17:04:09 [jeremy_]
Zakim, mute me
17:04:09 [Zakim]
jeremy_ should now be muted
17:04:46 [m_schnei]
m_schnei has joined #owl
17:04:46 [Zakim]
+Jonathan_Rees
17:05:15 [jeremy_]
Zakim, unmute me
17:05:15 [Zakim]
jeremy_ should no longer be muted
17:05:21 [alanr]
alanr has joined #owl
17:05:28 [baojie]
baojie has joined #owl
17:05:41 [alanr]
zakim, who am i
17:05:41 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who am i', alanr
17:05:44 [alanr]
zakim, who am i?
17:05:44 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, alanr.
17:05:47 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
17:05:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see IanH, jeremy_, Diego, bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, Zhe, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, MartinD (muted), Jonathan_Rees
17:05:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see baojie, alanr, m_schnei, ewallace, Zhe, msmith, MartinD, Ivan, bcuencagrau, IanH, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy_, sandro, trackbot-ng
17:05:50 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.342.aaff
17:06:00 [alanr]
zakim, Jonathan_Rees is alanr
17:06:00 [Zakim]
+alanr; got it
17:06:06 [alanr]
zakim, who is here?
17:06:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see IanH, jeremy_, Diego, bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, Zhe, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, MartinD (muted), alanr, +1.512.342.aaff
17:06:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see baojie, alanr, m_schnei, ewallace, Zhe, msmith, MartinD, Ivan, bcuencagrau, IanH, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy_, sandro, trackbot-ng
17:06:11 [DougL]
DougL has joined #owl
17:06:17 [diegoc]
diegoc has joined #owl
17:06:22 [Zakim]
+Sandro
17:06:38 [jie]
jie has joined #owl
17:06:50 [Zakim]
+ +1.518.276.aagg
17:07:03 [jie]
jie has left #owl
17:07:03 [alanr]
zakim, who is here?
17:07:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see IanH, jeremy_, Diego, bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, Zhe, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, MartinD (muted), alanr, +1.512.342.aaff, Sandro, +1.518.276.aagg
17:07:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see diegoc, DougL, baojie, alanr, m_schnei, ewallace, Zhe, msmith, MartinD, Ivan, bcuencagrau, IanH, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy_, sandro, trackbot-ng
17:07:17 [baojie]
1.518.276.aagg is baojie
17:07:30 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:07:32 [jeremy_]
Zakim, aagg is baojie
17:07:32 [Zakim]
+baojie; got it
17:07:36 [Ivan]
zakim, aagg is doug
17:07:36 [Zakim]
sorry, Ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'aagg'
17:07:44 [jeremy_]
Zakim, aaff is doug
17:07:44 [Zakim]
+doug; got it
17:07:47 [DougL]
Zakim, aaff is me
17:07:47 [Zakim]
sorry, DougL, I do not recognize a party named 'aaff'
17:07:55 [alanr]
zakim, who is here?
17:07:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see IanH, jeremy_, Diego, bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, Zhe, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, MartinD (muted), alanr, doug, Sandro, baojie, [IPcaller]
17:07:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see diegoc, DougL, baojie, alanr, m_schnei, ewallace, Zhe, msmith, MartinD, Ivan, bcuencagrau, IanH, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy_, sandro, trackbot-ng
17:08:04 [jeremy_]
Zakim, doug is DougL
17:08:04 [Zakim]
+DougL; got it
17:08:08 [m_schnei]
zakim, IPCaller is me
17:08:08 [Zakim]
+m_schnei; got it
17:08:17 [m_schnei]
zakim, mute me
17:08:17 [Zakim]
m_schnei should now be muted
17:08:33 [jeremy_]
Zakim, mute me
17:08:33 [Zakim]
jeremy_ should now be muted
17:08:42 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
17:08:44 [Zakim]
+??P15
17:08:50 [jeremy_]
Minutes
17:08:50 [IanH]
I looked, they seem OK
17:08:54 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: alanr (69%), Sandro (4%)
17:08:54 [diegoc]
Zakim, mute me
17:08:57 [Zakim]
sorry, diegoc, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
17:08:59 [ewallace]
Minutes look OK
17:08:59 [jeremy_]
previous minutes proposed by chair (alan)
17:09:06 [alanr]
+1
17:09:08 [Ivan]
zakim, diego is diegoc
17:09:08 [Zakim]
+diegoc; got it
17:09:09 [IanH]
+1
17:09:19 [DougL]
+1
17:09:22 [jeremy_]
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.03.26/Minutes
17:09:24 [MartinD]
+1
17:09:29 [Zhe]
+1
17:09:32 [jeremy_]
RESOLVED: accept minutes
17:09:36 [alanr]
q?
17:09:53 [IanH]
zakim, who is here?
17:09:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see IanH (muted), jeremy_ (muted), diegoc, bcuencagrau (muted), msmith, Zhe, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, MartinD (muted), alanr, DougL, Sandro (muted), baojie, m_schnei
17:09:57 [Zakim]
... (muted), ??P15
17:09:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see diegoc, DougL, baojie, alanr, m_schnei, ewallace, Zhe, msmith, MartinD, Ivan, bcuencagrau, IanH, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeremy_, sandro, trackbot-ng
17:10:13 [alanr]
zakim, ??P15 is ChristineG
17:10:13 [Zakim]
+ChristineG; got it
17:10:24 [alanr]
q?
17:10:28 [m_schnei]
what about raised issues?
17:10:31 [jeremy_]
Alan: any questions or thoughts about F2F2?
17:11:15 [m_schnei]
and all the new issues raised
17:11:16 [IanH]
q+
17:11:22 [jeremy_]
Alan: issues raised as a consequence of f2f business will be accepted.
17:11:24 [alanr]
q?
17:11:36 [ewallace]
Is there anything we need to talk about to fix publications?
17:11:42 [alanr]
ack IanH
17:11:46 [jeremy_]
Ian: Sandro, what is the lastest position concerning publication.
17:12:02 [jeremy_]
Sandro: needing go ahead from editors, otherwise OK
17:12:11 [jeremy_]
Sandro: some editors being a bit silent.
17:12:22 [jeremy_]
Ian: Boris is on holiday, so will be silent.
17:12:33 [m_schnei]
issues 112, 114, 115, 116 are *not* consequences of the f2f
17:12:52 [jeremy_]
Ian: Boris did his edits and left, and will not respond
17:12:58 [Zhe]
q+
17:13:09 [alanr]
ack zhe
17:13:43 [m_schnei]
how long exactly is boris on vacation?
17:13:50 [Ivan]
q+
17:13:59 [bcuencagrau]
q+
17:14:07 [jeremy_]
Zhe: asked question about intro to fragments/profiles
17:14:19 [jeremy_]
Zhe: the new three bullets ...
17:14:49 [jeremy_]
q+
17:15:02 [Ivan]
ack Ivan
17:15:10 [alanr]
ack Ivan
17:15:23 [jeremy_]
Chair: if Zhe is unhappy then we should delete this late change and leave editors note
17:15:24 [bcuencagrau]
zakim, unmute me
17:15:24 [Zakim]
bcuencagrau should no longer be muted
17:15:44 [alanr]
ack bcuencagrau
17:16:40 [alanr]
ack jeremy_
17:17:00 [msmith]
q+
17:17:07 [Ivan]
+1 to jeremy_
17:17:08 [ewallace]
Bernardo: I think there should be a small section in the primer discussing the profiles/fragments
17:17:14 [Zhe]
q+
17:17:18 [jeremy_]
Bernardo: this could be in primer, and perhaps not in this doc
17:17:23 [jeremy_]
Zakim, mute me
17:17:23 [Zakim]
jeremy_ should now be muted
17:17:39 [jeremy_]
in f2f
17:17:42 [bcuencagrau]
zakim, unmute me
17:17:42 [Zakim]
bcuencagrau was not muted, bcuencagrau
17:17:51 [bcuencagrau]
zakim, mute me
17:17:51 [Zakim]
bcuencagrau should now be muted
17:17:55 [jeremy_]
Zakim, unmute me
17:17:55 [Zakim]
jeremy_ should no longer be muted
17:18:15 [IanH]
Jeremy: I think that it is important to have these sentences even if they are said to be "non-consensus"
17:18:39 [IanH]
Jeremy: Poor quality intro better than no content.
17:18:53 [IanH]
Jeremy: could be put into an editors note
17:18:56 [msmith]
?q
17:18:57 [jeremy_]
Zakim, mute me
17:18:57 [Zakim]
jeremy_ should now be muted
17:19:00 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
17:19:10 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: alanr (44%), Sandro (4%), Zhe (27%)
17:20:12 [jeremy_]
I will step back if Zhe is stubborn on this!
17:20:13 [bcuencagrau]
+q
17:20:47 [jeremy_]
q+
17:20:52 [IanH]
q+
17:21:02 [Zakim]
+Peter_Patel-Schneider
17:21:02 [jeremy_]
Alan: Zhe can you suggest some repairs to this text?
17:21:15 [msmith]
q-
17:21:19 [Zhe]
q-
17:21:20 [jeremy_]
Zhe: but can the WG agree on any text in time.
17:21:21 [bcuencagrau]
zakim, unmute me
17:21:21 [Zakim]
bcuencagrau should no longer be muted
17:21:21 [pfps]
pfps has joined #owl
17:21:30 [alanr]
ack bcuencagrau
17:21:44 [jeremy_]
Bernardo: in the profiles doc there is quite a few things that need to be decided (non technical)
17:22:05 [jeremy_]
Bernardo: the motivations relate to the names, we will need to discuss these issues
17:22:29 [jeremy_]
Bernardo: I think Carsten did a good job with the intro.
17:23:13 [jeremy_]
Bernardo: we could drop last sentence of each bullet point "is suitable"
17:23:33 [msmith]
+1 to Berndardo's suggestion as a path forward
17:23:49 [jeremy_]
0 to Bernardo
17:23:49 [ewallace]
+1 on Bernardo's suggestion
17:23:55 [alanr]
ack jeremy_
17:23:58 [Ivan]
I think something should be present in both documents, actually
17:24:02 [sandro]
PROPOSED: For now, drop the last sentence from each bullet point in Profile's Intro. All of the form "...is suitable for...".
17:24:20 [alanr]
ack IanH
17:24:20 [jeremy_]
Zakim, mute me
17:24:21 [Zakim]
jeremy_ should now be muted
17:24:37 [Zhe]
q+
17:25:11 [alanr]
ack Zhe
17:25:16 [jeremy_]
Ian: Zhe are you happy with this proposed change.
17:25:29 [jeremy_]
Zhe: yes
17:25:32 [Ivan]
q+
17:25:38 [alanr]
ack Ivan
17:25:41 [sandro]
Zhe: I like the intro, except for the "is suitable" sentences.
17:25:52 [jeremy_]
Ian: so we have consensus
17:26:01 [bcuencagrau]
yes
17:26:03 [sandro]
PROPOSED: For now, drop the last sentence from each bullet point in Profile's Intro. All of the form "...is suitable for...".
17:26:08 [jeremy_]
Ivan: I think we also agree that the editors note from Bijan should stay
17:26:11 [msmith]
+1
17:26:12 [jeremy_]
0
17:26:12 [ewallace]
+1
17:26:14 [Zhe]
+1
17:26:14 [bcuencagrau]
+1
17:26:15 [DougL]
+1
17:26:15 [Ivan]
+1
17:26:16 [alanr]
+1
17:26:17 [IanH]
+1
17:26:17 [m_schnei]
0
17:26:21 [MartinD]
0
17:26:21 [sandro]
PROPOSED: For now, drop the last sentence from each bullet point in Profile's Intro. All of the form "...is suitable for...". (And keep in editor's note from Bijan)
17:26:21 [diegoc]
+1
17:26:24 [sandro]
+0
17:26:27 [pfps]
+0
17:26:32 [baojie]
+1
17:26:45 [sandro]
RESOLVED: For now, drop the last sentence from each bullet point in Profile's Intro. All of the form "...is suitable for...". (And keep in editor's note from Bijan)
17:26:48 [alanr]
q?
17:27:00 [jeremy_]
Sandro will implement this as part of publication
17:27:01 [Ivan]
q+
17:27:20 [alanr]
ack Ivan
17:27:32 [jeremy_]
Ivan: question to Zhe, I found some small bugs in the rules
17:27:40 [jeremy_]
Zhe: I have fixed these
17:27:41 [alanr]
where can I find sotd
17:27:43 [IanH]
q+
17:27:46 [alanr]
ack IanH
17:27:47 [jeremy_]
Zhe: (the typed triple)
17:28:01 [ewallace]
Have to go. Thanks again to chairs for a productive WG F2F in DC. Bye.
17:28:09 [Zakim]
-Evan_Wallace
17:28:10 [jeremy_]
Ian: The XML Serialization and Primer have bolier plate abstract
17:28:24 [msmith]
I believe zhe removed in response to Carsten?
17:28:33 [jeremy_]
Ian: The profiles doc has no boiler plate, but has editor's note
17:28:49 [Zhe]
I think Carsten asked for it
17:28:50 [jeremy_]
Sandro: they all were the same, but someone complained
17:28:53 [pfps]
one can see who by looking at the history
17:28:55 [Zhe]
Then Jie did the action
17:28:59 [jeremy_]
Alan: let's take this off line
17:29:01 [m_schnei]
same bug in xml: its not in the sources
17:29:08 [Zhe]
q+
17:29:13 [jeremy_]
Ian: not a huge issue, but a surprise
17:29:23 [alanr]
ack Zhe
17:29:27 [IanH]
q?
17:29:35 [jeremy_]
Zhe: regarding abstract. Carsten added abstract.
17:29:45 [m_schnei]
zhe knows how to fix it - so fix it :)
17:29:49 [jeremy_]
Zhe: & he thought boiler plate no longer needed
17:30:05 [jeremy_]
Zhe: and I think Jie did it
17:30:23 [jeremy_]
Ian: but it was agreed at some point that the boiler plate should be in all docs
17:30:31 [msmith]
email confirming that description http://www.w3.org/mid/b6b357670804081149q7f677748l69bcbc3592287a67@mail.gmail.com
17:30:42 [jeremy_]
Ian: in case a reader came to this doc first ....
17:30:50 [alanr]
q?
17:30:52 [jeremy_]
Alan: Sandro, can you fix this?
17:30:59 [Zhe]
m_schnei, I don't know how to do it
17:31:01 [Zhe]
sorry
17:31:01 [alanr]
q?
17:31:06 [jeremy_]
Ian: I will sort it now.
17:31:22 [alanr]
q?
17:31:50 [jeremy_]
Alan: are we frozen now, modulo changes discussed now.
17:31:57 [jeremy_]
Sandro: three sentences have gone
17:31:57 [alanr]
q?
17:32:03 [alanr]
q?
17:32:03 [jeremy_]
Ian: abstract is changing now
17:32:24 [IanH]
Abstract now restored to its former glory :-)
17:32:26 [jeremy_]
Alan: Sandro, do you need anything?
17:32:35 [jeremy_]
Sandro: no ....
17:32:50 [jeremy_]
Sandro: do we want a comment date?
17:33:30 [jeremy_]
Sandro: let's go for four weeks
17:33:37 [jeremy_]
Ivan: which mailing list for comments
17:33:43 [jeremy_]
Sandro: public-owl-comments
17:33:57 [jeremy_]
Alan: UFDTF for Monday
17:34:06 [jeremy_]
Alan: subject will be requirements doc
17:34:11 [jeremy_]
Alan: Evan will work on this
17:34:26 [jeremy_]
Alan: please send disiderata to requirements doc to list
17:34:44 [jeremy_]
Alan: we want to narrowly address what justifies current spec
17:34:52 [jeremy_]
Alan: largely a historical process
17:35:16 [jeremy_]
Alan: last call before adjournment
17:35:44 [jeremy_]
Alan: thanks to everyone
17:36:05 [IanH]
Yes, thanks from me too!
17:36:11 [Zhe]
bye
17:36:12 [jeremy_]
Alan: adjourn
17:36:13 [Zakim]
-DougL
17:36:15 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:36:16 [Zakim]
-MartinD
17:36:20 [m_schnei]
bye
17:36:20 [diegoc]
bye
17:36:20 [Zakim]
-msmith
17:36:21 [Zakim]
-alanr
17:36:23 [Zakim]
-Zhe
17:36:24 [Zakim]
-IanH
17:36:26 [Zakim]
-ChristineG
17:36:27 [Zakim]
-bcuencagrau
17:36:27 [Zakim]
-Peter_Patel-Schneider
17:36:29 [Zakim]
-jeremy_
17:36:29 [MartinD]
MartinD has left #OWL
17:36:32 [Zakim]
-m_schnei
17:36:34 [Zakim]
-Ivan
17:36:36 [Zakim]
-diegoc
17:36:50 [Zakim]
-baojie
17:36:52 [Zakim]
SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
17:36:53 [Zakim]
Attendees were +0186527aaaa, IanH, jeremy_, +39.047.101.aabb, bcuencagrau, +1.202.408.aacc, msmith, Zhe, Ivan, Evan_Wallace, +0190827aaee, MartinD, +1.512.342.aaff, alanr, Sandro,
17:36:56 [Zakim]
... +1.518.276.aagg, baojie, DougL, m_schnei, diegoc, ChristineG, Peter_Patel-Schneider
17:37:14 [jeremy_]
RRSAgent, pointer
17:37:14 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/04/09-owl-irc#T17-37-14
17:37:22 [jeremy_]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:38:15 [jeremy_]
rrsagent, please format the minutes
17:38:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/09-owl-minutes.html jeremy_
18:19:14 [msmith]
msmith has left #owl
19:51:25 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #owl