IRC log of xhtml on 2008-04-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:38:05 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:38:11 [Zakim]
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13:38:21 [Steven]
zakim, this will be xhtml
13:38:21 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:38:30 [Steven]
rrsagent, make log public
13:38:43 [Steven]
Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
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13:40:20 [Roland]
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IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
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+ +0138687aaaa
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13:42:07 [Roland]
Zakim, aaaa is Roland
13:42:08 [Zakim]
+Roland; got it
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RolandMerrick has changed the topic to:
13:44:04 [Zakim]
13:44:18 [Steven]
13:44:22 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda:
13:44:49 [Roland]
Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
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Chair: Roland
13:45:27 [Roland]
13:45:43 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:45:43 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:45:45 [Zakim]
13:46:07 [Steven]
zakim, who is here?
13:46:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roland, ??P9, Steven
13:46:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see yamx, myakura, Roland, Lachy, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, CSB, Tina, Steven, krijnh
13:46:26 [Zakim]
13:46:29 [Steven]
zakim, ??P9 is alessio
13:46:29 [Zakim]
+alessio; got it
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13:49:05 [Zakim]
13:49:20 [yamx]
Zakim, P12 is yamx.
13:49:20 [Zakim]
sorry, yamx, I do not recognize a party named 'P12'
13:49:29 [yamx]
Zakim, ??P12 is yamx.
13:49:29 [Zakim]
+yamx; got it
13:53:43 [oedipus]
SP: editors of CSS Namespace contacted us to find if formal objection; we said yes, if comment rejected; spoke with chair of WG and he said it hadn't been discussed -- was a decision by fiat by the editors -- means we are in limbo awaiting a formal response from WG -- had separate discussion with CSS WG that i didn't copy to XHTML2 list because according to charter, they are member-only, and i quoted member-only text so couldn't forward to XHTML2 list
13:53:53 [oedipus]
scribe: oedipus
13:54:03 [oedipus]
scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
13:54:06 [oedipus]
scribeNick: oedipus
13:54:38 [oedipus]
SP: have to go to CSS lists to read my comments; last exchange with chair was last friday, so if don't hear anything by this friday, will ping them
13:54:55 [oedipus]
RM: waiting for official response from CSS working group
13:55:08 [oedipus]
SP: mentioned at HTC, but only very briefly
13:55:13 [oedipus]
RM: no discussion in minutes
13:55:20 [oedipus]
TOPIC: Reviews
13:55:28 [oedipus]
RM: XML Base Second Exition
13:55:36 [oedipus]
SP: need to review because we reference it
13:55:44 [oedipus]
SP: should ensure is still ok for our needs
13:56:22 [oedipus]
yam: process for going back to PR
13:56:59 [oedipus]
SP: if make normative changes, don't need to go back to LC, if have errata, apply to spec, then proposed edited recommendation; should be NO normative changes -- just clarifications and errata
13:57:19 [oedipus]
s/back to PR/to Proposed Edited Rec
13:57:32 [oedipus]
SP: can look at XML Base -- what is deadline?
13:57:40 [oedipus]
RM: 30 June 2008
13:58:17 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Topic: CSS Namespaces Module
13:58:17 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: So we now have a formal issue, is that right?
13:58:17 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Well it turns out that the WG hadn't discussed it, and it was the editors who had decided to reject us
13:58:17 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01... so we are in limbo still, waiting for a reposnse from CSS WG
13:58:17 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Topic: XML Base
13:58:19 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: So we should review this?
13:58:21 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Well we do reference it
13:58:23 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Yam: What is a PER?
13:58:25 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Mostly editorial and errata
13:58:27 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: Who will review?
13:58:29 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: I am happy to
13:58:31 [Steven]
04stevenpemberton: 01ACTION: Steven to review XML Base by 30 June
13:58:47 [Steven]
s/Stevenpemberton: //G
13:58:55 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
13:59:03 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to review XML Base by 30 Juner
13:59:05 [oedipus]
scribe: steven
13:59:11 [Steven]
13:59:22 [Steven]
Topicc: FtF
13:59:29 [Steven]
13:59:44 [Steven]
Shane: I should have the contract finished this week, will post details after that
13:59:49 [Steven]
Topic: CURIEs
14:00:17 [Steven]
Steven: So the TAG comments came in before I sent the last call
14:00:47 [Steven]
14:00:56 [Steven]
Shane: So we need a WG response to these
14:02:06 [ShaneM]
14:02:06 [Steven]
Shane: The minutes of the meeting where they discussed this are worth reading
14:02:38 [Steven]
14:04:17 [Steven]
Roland: Are any of their comments no longer valid against the latest draft?
14:04:25 [Steven]
SHane: I think so
14:04:45 [Steven]
14:05:01 [Steven]
... for instance a comment about the RDFa spec
14:05:45 [Steven]
Steven: Good to see "We agree RDF languages need this ... it shd be allowed to proceed"
14:06:32 [oedipus]
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14:08:43 [Steven]
Steven: Shall I draft a reply for the group to consider?
14:09:18 [Steven]
Roland: I think it should be split into several replies, one on syntax, one on background, requirements, ...
14:11:10 [Tina]
Steven: the minutes posted, under issue 35
14:12:36 [Steven]
Shane: Some of their issues seem not to be to the point
14:12:40 [Steven]
... or miss something
14:13:38 [Steven]
Shanhe: Unfortunately this blocks the role module
14:13:52 [Steven]
14:15:06 [Tina]
Ah. Thank you.
14:15:26 [Steven]
Steven: THey are allowed to be one step out of sync
14:15:30 [Steven]
14:15:47 [Steven]
ROland: Is role ready to go?
14:15:52 [markbirbeck]
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14:15:52 [Steven]
14:16:03 [Steven]
SHane: Yes
14:16:08 [Steven]
14:16:52 [Steven]
Gregory: We (WAI) arranged a special meeting with HTML5 people to discuss Aria, and no one from HTML5 turned up
14:16:58 [Steven]
... so we are ignoring them for the moment
14:17:08 [Steven]
Shane: ANyway, role is ready to go
14:17:16 [Steven]
14:17:25 [Steven]
Roland: Then let's go
14:17:46 [Steven]
SHane: We should update the public WD of Curies so we can refer to it
14:17:51 [Steven]
14:18:51 [Steven]
RESOLUTION: Produce a new public WD of CURIEs
14:19:07 [Steven]
Roland: Take role to last call?
14:19:12 [Steven]
14:19:21 [Steven]
RESOLUTION: Take role to last call
14:19:33 [Steven]
ACTION: Shane to update public WD of CURIEs
14:19:46 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to organise last call of role
14:20:17 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to draft a reply to TAG comments on CURIEs
14:21:03 [Steven]
Roland: We will discuss the comments next week
14:21:16 [Steven]
Steven: I will try to attend, but I'll be at a conference
14:21:21 [Steven]
Topic: XHTML Basic
14:23:00 [Steven]
Steven: I sent a draft transition request to Roland, SHane and Chrtis Lilley, and spotted two editorial bugs in the spec, which should be fixed today
14:23:13 [Steven]
... I'd be happy for an OK on the transition request, and I will send it off
14:25:23 [Steven]
Topic: M12N transition
14:27:01 [Steven]
Roland: Status?
14:27:31 [Steven]
Steven: I have sent a revised transition request with answers to Steve Batt's question to Steve Bratt, and I am awaiting a reply
14:27:40 [Steven]
14:27:48 [Steven]
Topic: Media type
14:28:35 [Steven]
14:29:28 [Steven]
14:29:56 [Steven]
Shane: Olivier is asking some questions which we should answer
14:30:25 [Steven]
... I don't think the mime docuemtn should mention HTML5 since there is no normative spec
14:30:49 [Steven]
Gregory: THe HTML5 WD has huge wholes
14:30:53 [Steven]
14:30:59 [Steven]
14:31:09 [oedipus]
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14:31:13 [Steven]
... and is nowhere near to being complete
14:31:25 [Steven]
SHane: Olivier supplies a nugget of useful data
14:31:47 [Steven]
... he asks if the note can be a rec
14:32:08 [Steven]
Steven: It briongs information together, it doesn't need to be a rec
14:32:12 [Steven]
14:32:32 [Steven]
Shane: He asks if we can make the compatibility guidelines clearer
14:32:50 [Steven]
... I am trying to recast them
14:33:01 [ShaneM]
14:33:46 [Steven]
Roland: I would like us to have a document that follows the guidelines as an example
14:35:31 [oedipus]
14:36:20 [Steven]
Steven: We need to point out that they are guidelines, and not requirements
14:36:45 [oedipus]
Steven, were you referring to A.7? -- lang attribute important for natural language switching in speech output and braille output (every DAMN country has its own braille code)
14:37:03 [oedipus]
same with screen magnifiers -- need to get the right charset for the lang declaration
14:38:01 [Steven]
OK Oediupus, thanks
14:38:13 [Steven]
and do they do xml:lang?
14:38:42 [oedipus]
some do the xml:lang, such as Orca (screen-reader braille-output for GNOME)
14:38:44 [Steven]
Shane: validators do something with @lang
14:39:02 [Steven]
... and I'm not sure what we should do about it
14:39:07 [Steven]
... especially with RDFa
14:39:33 [Steven]
... since XHTML1.1+RDFa does not have @lang, only @xml:lang
14:40:35 [Steven]
Steven: The provblem only arises if you are unable to tell the UA the language of the document
14:41:08 [oedipus]
GJR: don't have definitive list, but will check on xml:lang support especially in open source community
14:41:18 [Steven]
14:41:21 [oedipus]
14:41:47 [Steven]
14:41:54 [Steven]
ack o
14:42:32 [Steven]
Shane: THe othjer issue is about referencing style elements
14:42:46 [Steven]
Shane: I think we should say not to use stylesheet declarations
14:42:56 [Steven]
s/use/use XML /
14:43:02 [oedipus]
GJR: commercial assistive tech vendors rely on "lang" because it is far more likely to be present (so they assume) than xml:lang
14:45:49 [Steven]
Shane: Shall we keep the recommendation to use XML stylesheets?
14:45:58 [Steven]
Steven: I don't think we need to
14:46:02 [Steven]
... anymore
14:46:09 [Zakim]
14:46:13 [Zakim]
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14:46:15 [Zakim]
14:46:17 [Zakim]
IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:46:18 [Zakim]
Attendees were +0138687aaaa, Roland, Steven, ShaneM, alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita, yamx
14:46:42 [Steven]
... people who want to deliver it as XML know that they are there, but UAs that understand the namespace are going to do the stylesheets anyway
14:46:56 [Steven]
Shane: I will update the draft and we can discuss it next week.
14:47:06 [Steven]
14:47:15 [Steven]
zakim, who is here?
14:47:15 [Zakim]
apparently IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended, Steven
14:47:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see oedipus, markbirbeck, myakura, Roland, Lachy, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, CSB, Tina, Steven, krijnh
14:47:25 [Steven]
rrsagent, makee minutes
14:47:25 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'makee minutes', Steven. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:47:34 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:47:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
14:48:03 [Steven]
14:48:10 [Steven]
14:48:20 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
14:48:54 [Steven]
s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
14:48:58 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
14:49:51 [Steven]
Steven has left #xhtml
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14:54:00 [Steven]
s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
14:54:07 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
15:00:43 [Steven]
s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
15:00:54 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
15:01:48 [Steven]
15:02:04 [Steven]
damned escapes in a substitue patters
15:02:45 [Steven]
i/Topic: CSS/Scribe: Steven
15:02:52 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Steven
15:06:15 [ShaneM]
thanks! tell him Thanks and that they comments look great
15:06:21 [oedipus]
15:07:41 [oedipus]
i was disqualified from doing the review, as i am known to be an ardent advocate of RDFa
15:08:59 [Steven]
15:10:32 [oedipus]
there is a ridiculous thread on and the GNOME dev list about mac OS accessibility -- maciej claims that they are moving towards AT-SPI ( for mac accessibility, but as for aria it is something in the future not to be discussed now...
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