13:38:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:38:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-irc
13:38:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xhtml
13:38:21 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml
13:38:21 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
13:38:30 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
13:38:43 <Steven> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:39:03 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #xhtml
13:40:20 <Roland> Roland has joined #xhtml
13:41:41 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:41:47 <Zakim> + +0138687aaaa
13:42:06 <myakura> myakura has joined #xhtml
13:42:07 <Roland> Zakim, aaaa is Roland
13:42:08 <Zakim> +Roland; got it
13:42:59 <RolandMerrick> RolandMerrick has joined #xhtml
13:43:14 <RolandMerrick> RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001.html
13:44:04 <Zakim> +??P9
13:44:18 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001
13:44:22 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001
13:44:49 <Roland> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
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13:45:11 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:45:27 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001.html
13:45:43 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:45:43 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:45:45 <Zakim> +Steven
13:46:07 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
13:46:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, ??P9, Steven
13:46:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see yamx, myakura, Roland, Lachy, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, CSB, Tina, Steven, krijnh
13:46:26 <Zakim> +ShaneM
13:46:29 <Steven> zakim, ??P9 is alessio
13:46:29 <Zakim> +alessio; got it
13:47:38 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #xhtml
13:48:17 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:49:02 <yamx> yamx has joined #xhtml
13:49:05 <Zakim> +??P12
13:49:20 <yamx> Zakim, P12 is yamx.
13:49:20 <Zakim> sorry, yamx, I do not recognize a party named 'P12'
13:49:29 <yamx> Zakim, ??P12 is yamx.
13:49:29 <Zakim> +yamx; got it
13:53:43 <oedipus> SP: editors of CSS Namespace contacted us to find if formal objection; we said yes, if comment rejected; spoke with chair of WG and he said it hadn't been discussed -- was a decision by fiat by the editors -- means we are in limbo awaiting a formal response from WG -- had separate discussion with CSS WG that i didn't copy to XHTML2 list because according to charter, they are member-only, and i quoted member-only text so couldn't forward to XHTML2 list
13:53:53 <oedipus> scribe: oedipus
13:54:03 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
13:54:06 <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus
13:54:38 <oedipus> SP: have to go to CSS lists to read my comments; last exchange with chair was last friday, so if don't hear anything by this friday, will ping them
13:54:55 <oedipus> RM: waiting for official response from CSS working group
13:55:08 <oedipus> SP: mentioned at HTC, but only very briefly
13:55:13 <oedipus> RM: no discussion in minutes
13:55:20 <oedipus> TOPIC: Reviews
13:55:28 <oedipus> RM: XML Base Second Exition
13:55:36 <oedipus> SP: need to review because we reference it
13:55:44 <oedipus> SP: should ensure is still ok for our needs
13:56:22 <oedipus> yam: process for going back to PR
13:56:59 <oedipus> SP: if make normative changes, don't need to go back to LC, if have errata, apply to spec, then proposed edited recommendation; should be NO normative changes -- just clarifications and errata
13:57:19 <oedipus> s/back to PR/to Proposed Edited Rec
13:57:32 <oedipus> SP: can look at XML Base -- what is deadline?
13:57:40 <oedipus> RM: 30 June 2008
13:58:17 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Topic: CSS Namespaces Module
13:58:17 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: So we now have a formal issue, is that right?
13:58:17 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Well it turns out that the WG hadn't discussed it, and it was the editors who had decided to reject us
13:58:17 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01... so we are in limbo still, waiting for a reposnse from CSS WG
13:58:17 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Topic: XML Base
13:58:19 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: So we should review this?
13:58:21 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Well we do reference it
13:58:23 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Yam: What is a PER?
13:58:25 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Mostly editorial and errata
13:58:27 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: Who will review?
13:58:29 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: I am happy to
13:58:31 <Steven> 04stevenpemberton: 01ACTION: Steven to review XML Base by 30 June
13:58:47 <Steven> s/Stevenpemberton: //G
13:58:55 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
13:59:03 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to review XML Base by 30 Juner
13:59:05 <oedipus> scribe: steven
13:59:11 <Steven> s/Juner/June/
13:59:22 <Steven> Topicc: FtF
13:59:29 <Steven> s/cc/c/
13:59:44 <Steven> Shane: I should have the contract finished this week, will post details after that
13:59:49 <Steven> Topic: CURIEs
14:00:17 <Steven> Steven: So the TAG comments came in before I sent the last call
14:00:47 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JanMar/0014.html
14:00:56 <Steven> Shane: So we need a WG response to these
14:02:06 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/03/27-minutes
14:02:06 <Steven> Shane: The minutes of the meeting where they discussed this are worth reading
14:02:38 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/03/27-minutes#item02
14:04:17 <Steven> Roland: Are any of their comments no longer valid against the latest draft?
14:04:25 <Steven> SHane: I think so
14:04:45 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:05:01 <Steven> ... for instance a comment about the RDFa spec
14:05:45 <Steven> Steven: Good to see "We agree RDF languages need this ... it shd be allowed to proceed"
14:06:32 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #xhtml
14:08:43 <Steven> Steven: Shall I draft a reply for the group to consider?
14:09:18 <Steven> Roland: I think it should be split into several replies, one on syntax, one on background, requirements, ...
14:11:10 <Tina> Steven: the minutes posted, under issue 35
14:12:36 <Steven> Shane: Some of their issues seem not to be to the point
14:12:40 <Steven> ... or miss something
14:13:38 <Steven> Shanhe: Unfortunately this blocks the role module
14:13:52 <Steven> s/he:/e:/
14:15:06 <Tina> Ah. Thank you.
14:15:26 <Steven> Steven: THey are allowed to be one step out of sync
14:15:30 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
14:15:47 <Steven> ROland: Is role ready to go?
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14:15:52 <Steven> s/RO/Ro/
14:16:03 <Steven> SHane: Yes
14:16:08 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:16:52 <Steven> Gregory: We (WAI) arranged a special meeting with HTML5 people to discuss Aria, and no one from HTML5 turned up
14:16:58 <Steven> ... so we are ignoring them for the moment
14:17:08 <Steven> Shane: ANyway, role is ready to go
14:17:16 <Steven> s/AN/An/
14:17:25 <Steven> Roland: Then let's go
14:17:46 <Steven> SHane: We should update the public WD of Curies so we can refer to it
14:17:51 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:18:51 <Steven> RESOLUTION: Produce a new public WD of CURIEs
14:19:07 <Steven> Roland: Take role to last call?
14:19:12 <Steven> [Agreement]
14:19:21 <Steven> RESOLUTION: Take role to last call
14:19:33 <Steven> ACTION: Shane to update public WD of CURIEs
14:19:46 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to organise last call of role
14:20:17 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to draft a reply to TAG comments on CURIEs
14:21:03 <Steven> Roland: We will discuss the comments next week
14:21:16 <Steven> Steven: I will try to attend, but I'll be at a conference
14:21:21 <Steven> Topic: XHTML Basic
14:23:00 <Steven> Steven: I sent a draft transition request to Roland, SHane and Chrtis Lilley, and spotted two editorial bugs in the spec, which should be fixed today
14:23:13 <Steven> ... I'd be happy for an OK on the transition request, and I will send it off
14:25:23 <Steven> Topic: M12N transition
14:27:01 <Steven> Roland: Status?
14:27:31 <Steven> Steven: I have sent a revised transition request with answers to Steve Batt's question to Steve Bratt, and I am awaiting a reply
14:27:40 <Steven> s/Batt/Bratt/
14:27:48 <Steven> Topic: Media type
14:28:35 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0086.html
14:29:28 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0071.html
14:29:56 <Steven> Shane: Olivier is asking some questions which we should answer
14:30:25 <Steven> ... I don't think the mime docuemtn should mention HTML5 since there is no normative spec
14:30:49 <Steven> Gregory: THe HTML5 WD has huge wholes
14:30:53 <Steven> s/whole/hole/
14:30:59 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
14:31:09 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #xhtml
14:31:13 <Steven> ... and is nowhere near to being complete
14:31:25 <Steven> SHane: Olivier supplies a nugget of useful data
14:31:47 <Steven> ... he asks if the note can be a rec
14:32:08 <Steven> Steven: It briongs information together, it doesn't need to be a rec
14:32:12 <Steven> s/io/i/
14:32:32 <Steven> Shane: He asks if we can make the compatibility guidelines clearer
14:32:50 <Steven> ... I am trying to recast them
14:33:01 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20080331/
14:33:46 <Steven> Roland: I would like us to have a document that follows the guidelines as an example
14:35:31 <oedipus> q+
14:36:20 <Steven> Steven: We need to point out that they are guidelines, and not requirements
14:36:45 <oedipus> Steven, were you referring to A.7? -- lang attribute important for natural language switching in speech output and braille output (every DAMN country has its own braille code)
14:37:03 <oedipus> same with screen magnifiers -- need to get the right charset for the lang declaration
14:38:01 <Steven> OK Oediupus, thanks
14:38:13 <Steven> and do they do xml:lang?
14:38:42 <oedipus> some do the xml:lang, such as Orca (screen-reader braille-output for GNOME)
14:38:44 <Steven> Shane: validators do something with @lang
14:39:02 <Steven> ... and I'm not sure what we should do about it
14:39:07 <Steven> ... especially with RDFa
14:39:33 <Steven> ... since XHTML1.1+RDFa does not have @lang, only @xml:lang
14:40:35 <Steven> Steven: The provblem only arises if you are unable to tell the UA the language of the document
14:41:08 <oedipus> GJR: don't have definitive list, but will check on xml:lang support especially in open source community
14:41:18 <Steven> thanks
14:41:21 <oedipus> np
14:41:47 <Steven> q?
14:41:54 <Steven> ack o
14:42:32 <Steven> Shane: THe othjer issue is about referencing style elements
14:42:46 <Steven> Shane: I think we should say not to use stylesheet declarations
14:42:56 <Steven> s/use/use XML /
14:43:02 <oedipus> GJR: commercial assistive tech vendors rely on "lang" because it is far more likely to be present (so they assume) than xml:lang
14:45:49 <Steven> Shane: Shall we keep the recommendation to use XML stylesheets?
14:45:58 <Steven> Steven: I don't think we need to
14:46:02 <Steven> ... anymore
14:46:09 <Zakim> -ShaneM
14:46:13 <Zakim> -Steven
14:46:14 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
14:46:14 <Zakim> -alessio
14:46:15 <Zakim> -Roland
14:46:15 <Zakim> -yamx
14:46:17 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:46:18 <Zakim> Attendees were +0138687aaaa, Roland, Steven, ShaneM, alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita, yamx
14:46:42 <Steven> ... people who want to deliver it as XML know that they are there, but UAs that understand the namespace are going to do the stylesheets anyway
14:46:56 <Steven> Shane: I will update the draft and we can discuss it next week.
14:47:06 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:47:15 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
14:47:15 <Zakim> apparently IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended, Steven
14:47:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see oedipus, markbirbeck, myakura, Roland, Lachy, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, CSB, Tina, Steven, krijnh
14:47:25 <Steven> rrsagent, makee minutes
14:47:25 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makee minutes', Steven.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:47:34 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:47:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:48:03 <Steven> present+Tina
14:48:10 <Steven> Present+Mark
14:48:20 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:48:54 <Steven> s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
14:48:58 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:49:51 <Steven> Steven has left #xhtml
14:50:01 <Steven> Steven has joined #xhtml
14:54:00 <Steven> s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
14:54:07 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:00:43 <Steven> s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
15:00:54 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:01:48 <Steven> Yay!
15:02:04 <Steven> damned escapes in a substitue patters
15:02:45 <Steven> i/Topic: CSS/Scribe: Steven
15:02:52 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:06:15 <ShaneM> thanks!  tell him Thanks and that they comments look great
15:06:21 <oedipus> ok
15:07:41 <oedipus> i was disqualified from doing the review, as i am known to be an ardent advocate of RDFa
15:08:59 <Steven> lol
15:10:32 <oedipus> there is a ridiculous thread on dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org and the GNOME dev list about mac OS accessibility -- maciej claims that they are moving towards AT-SPI (http://a11y.org/atspi) for mac accessibility, but as for aria it is something in the future not to be discussed now...
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