14:29:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:29:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-irc
14:29:05 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make log public
14:29:22 <John_Boyer> Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference
14:29:32 <John_Boyer> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0002.html
14:29:38 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0002.html
14:29:47 <John_Boyer> Chair: John
14:29:53 <John_Boyer> Scribe: Leigh
14:29:58 <John_Boyer> scribenick: klotz
14:30:12 <John_Boyer> Regrets: Kenneth, Joern
14:36:53 <nic1> nic1 has joined #forms
14:40:42 <unl> unl has joined #forms
14:41:28 <Charlie> Charlie has joined #forms
14:41:56 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has now started
14:42:03 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:42:15 <Charlie> zakim, [IBM] is Charlie
14:42:15 <Zakim> +Charlie; got it
14:42:34 <wellsk> wellsk has joined #forms
14:42:39 <Zakim> +John_Boyer
14:43:13 <nic1> zakim, code?
14:43:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nic1
14:44:01 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
14:44:14 <Zakim> +Susan_Borgrink
14:44:35 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
14:44:51 <Zakim> +Ulrich_Nicolas_Lisse
14:44:59 <Zakim> + +1.919.254.aaaa
14:45:13 <unl> zakim, Ulrich_Nicolas_Lisse is me
14:45:13 <Zakim> +unl; got it
14:45:17 <wellsk> zakim, aaaa is wellsk
14:45:17 <Zakim> +wellsk; got it
14:45:21 <Roger> Roger has joined #forms
14:45:27 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
14:45:37 <Roger> zakim, code ?
14:45:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Roger
14:45:39 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
14:45:43 <SusanB> SusanB has joined #forms
14:45:56 <wellsk> zakim, mute me
14:45:56 <Zakim> wellsk should now be muted
14:46:04 <nick> zakim, mute me
14:46:04 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
14:46:06 <unl> zakim, mute me
14:46:06 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
14:46:30 <unl> unl has left #forms
14:46:32 <Zakim> +??P10
14:46:36 <Roger> zakim, P10 is Roger
14:46:36 <Zakim> sorry, Roger, I do not recognize a party named 'P10'
14:46:51 <Roger> zakim, ??P10 is Roger
14:46:51 <Zakim> +Roger; got it
14:46:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:47:03 <ebruchez> zakim, [IP is ebruchez
14:47:03 <Zakim> +ebruchez; got it
14:48:06 <unl> unl has joined #forms
14:48:34 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has left #forms
14:48:42 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #forms
14:50:06 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0002.html
14:51:04 <markbirbeck> I have just sent apologies for this telecon, to the list. Sorry about that. (Apologising about sending apologies...)
14:51:04 <Rafael> Rafael has joined #forms
14:51:27 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:51:27 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:51:29 <Zakim> +Steven
14:51:54 <Roger> zakim, Roger has Rafael
14:51:54 <Zakim> +Rafael; got it
14:56:43 <John_Boyer> Action 2008-01-16.1
14:59:21 <John_Boyer> Behavior of replace=text for submissions that retrieve non-text
14:59:32 <klotz> ACTION: John Boyer to write up spec-ready text proposal for 1.2 for Behavior of replace=text for submissions that retrieve non-text as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0079.html
14:59:32 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - John
14:59:32 <trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer)
14:59:48 <klotz> s/John Boyer/jboyer/
15:00:11 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0001.html
15:02:20 <unl> in the java world there are many databinding tools. they are often used in web services stacks like axis
15:03:05 <unl> the schema is used to generate a class tree implementing structure and validation rules prescribed by a schema
15:05:32 <unl> furthermore there are marshallers/unmarshallers to translate between xml documents and object graphs
15:09:53 <nick> I noticed that they completely rewritten '3.1 URI Reference Encoding and Escaping'
15:10:12 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
15:10:20 <klotz> calling back
15:10:30 <John_Boyer> we've gone quiet till your return
15:11:15 <nick> TOPIC: Forms Task Force
15:11:24 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
15:11:33 <nick> John: We are getting closure to the simplified synstax
15:11:39 <klotz> back
15:13:37 <klotz> were there actions items for xml:base?
15:14:28 <klotz> ACTION: Steven Pemberton to review XML Base PER June 30 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0087.html
15:14:28 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-455 - Pemberton to review XML Base PER June 30 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0087.html [on Steven Pemberton - due 2008-04-09].
15:15:05 <John_Boyer> If you could say so on the IRC, that would suffice
15:15:37 <unl> yes, we did
15:16:33 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html
15:21:13 <markbirbeck> Hi everyone. Sorry I can't make the call. John has mentioned in a separate window that you might be close to a resolution on the simplified syntax discussion, and I'd like to add my vote if that's the case. My position is still that I favour @name mapping to a 'flat' model.
15:21:22 <unl> zakim, unmute me
15:21:22 <Zakim> unl should no longer be muted
15:21:29 <markbirbeck> I feel this 'flat model' is best achieved by mapping to <bind> statements, and further that a convenient way to refer to those binds is via the dollar syntax.
15:21:50 <markbirbeck> But note that I am not therefore saying we MUST use the dollar syntax to address the binds, or that binds must represent variables.
15:21:56 <nick> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Apr/0006.html
15:22:18 <markbirbeck> It just seems to me that the whole package of "@name -> <bind> -> named variable -> reference via $x" is pretty coherent, consistent and ultimately very useful in many different ways, not just in the simplified syntax.
15:23:36 <nick> ack, me
15:23:40 <nick> ack me
15:24:24 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
15:24:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:25:06 <Zakim> + +0208761aabb
15:25:15 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aabb
15:25:15 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
15:26:18 <klotz> why now <xf:variable name="foo"><xf:bind ... />
15:27:00 <klotz> or <xf:variable name="foo" bind="xyz" /> <xf:bind id="xyz" ....
15:32:23 <nick> it becomes hard to identify what path-steps needs to be rewritten
15:42:58 <nick> sum(LineTotal)*AnotherContrl
15:43:43 <nick> if you evaluate this expression the LineTotal path expression needs to evaluated against all row elements
15:44:02 <nick> the AnotherContrl path needs to be evaluated to another context
15:50:44 <nick> or an attribute on bind variable="true"
15:52:36 <nick> zakim, mute me
15:52:36 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:55:56 <klotz>  This is a secondary point, but what's the difference between <xf:bind name="foo" calculate="123"/> and <xf:variable name="foo" select="123" />
15:56:22 <unl> zakim, mute me
15:56:22 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
15:56:23 <nick> yes because a[$c = '1']/../../../.[$c = '1] will refer to the same nodeset
15:56:55 <nick> also if the path is inside the repeat, and ../../.. breaks outside the repeat
15:57:53 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html
15:58:20 <nick> ack me
15:59:04 <nick> a big difference between variables and binds is that our variables should be scoped, and the binds are global
15:59:06 <John_Boyer> Please scroll to point 5f
15:59:27 <John_Boyer> to see the canonical form, modulo using id on bind rather than name on bind
15:59:29 <markbirbeck> zakim, mute me
15:59:29 <Zakim> markbirbeck should now be muted
16:00:01 <nick> we could make variables in the model also global, but putting variables in the UI should result in local variables
16:00:03 <markbirbeck> zakim, unmute me
16:00:03 <Zakim> markbirbeck should no longer be muted
16:01:21 <nick> zakim, mute me
16:01:21 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
16:02:21 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html
16:03:57 <Charlie> i was originally opposed to having both $ and non-$ notation, but now like the ability to have a "flat" space of names, so I'm +1
16:05:10 <nick> Since a couple of weeks, I'm personally convinced that the $ proposal is good proposal for me. So for me we can start working on the details on a separate call
16:06:44 <John_Boyer> I like the dollar syntax as an easier way for people to get started and go for longer with a "flat space" understanding of the world, and then they can scale up to full XPath without too much pain.
16:07:07 <klotz> +1
16:07:08 <markbirbeck> +1
16:07:18 <wellsk> Keith says move forward +1
16:07:21 <unl> +/-0
16:07:39 <Steven> +0
16:12:05 <John_Boyer> Proposed Resolution: Proceed to spec ready text on simplified syntax and canonical form expressed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html plus name attr on bind as way to create variables
16:13:44 <Steven> Let's add <font> to XHTML to persuade people to use CSS ;-)
16:14:43 <klotz> RESOLUTION: Proceed to spec ready text on simplified syntax and canonical form expressed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html plus name attr on bind as way to create variables
16:15:19 <klotz> ACTION: John_Boyer to provide spec ready text on simplified syntax and canonical form expressed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html plus name attr on bind as way to create variables
16:15:19 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - John_Boyer
16:15:38 <klotz> s/John_Boyer/jboyer/
16:15:52 <nick> bye 
16:15:56 <SusanB> bye
16:15:58 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:15:59 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
16:15:59 <Zakim> -Steven
16:16:00 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
16:16:00 <Zakim> -unl
16:16:01 <Zakim> -wellsk
16:16:01 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
16:16:03 <Zakim> -Charlie
16:16:06 <Zakim> -Roger
16:16:08 <wellsk> wellsk has left #forms
16:16:08 <Zakim> -Susan_Borgrink
16:16:44 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
16:16:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see ebruchez
16:16:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see markbirbeck, Roger, klotz, nick, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, Steven, shepazu, trackbot-ng
16:16:52 <John_Boyer> zakim, disconnect ebruchez
16:16:52 <Zakim> ebruchez is being disconnected
16:16:53 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
16:16:54 <Zakim> Attendees were Charlie, John_Boyer, Susan_Borgrink, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, +1.919.254.aaaa, unl, wellsk, Leigh_Klotz, [IPcaller], ebruchez, Steven, Rafael, +0208761aabb, markbirbeck
16:16:58 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
16:16:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
16:17:02 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, bye
16:17:02 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-actions.rdf :
16:17:02 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John Boyer to write up spec-ready text proposal for 1.2 for Behavior of replace=text for submissions that retrieve non-text as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0079.html [1]
16:17:02 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-irc#T14-59-32
16:17:02 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven Pemberton to review XML Base PER June 30 as in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0087.html [2]
16:17:02 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-irc#T15-14-28
16:17:02 <RRSAgent> ACTION: John_Boyer to provide spec ready text on simplified syntax and canonical form expressed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Mar/0097.html plus name attr on bind as way to create variables [3]
16:17:02 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-forms-irc#T16-15-19