17:55:34 RRSAgent has joined #sml 17:55:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-sml-irc 17:55:45 ginny has joined #sml 17:55:50 Agenda at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Mar/0084.html 17:58:56 Kumar has joined #sml 17:59:34 Sandy has joined #sml 17:59:37 zakim, what's the code? 17:59:37 sorry, MSM, I don't know what conference this is 17:59:41 zakim, this will be sml 17:59:41 ok, MSM, I see XML_SMLWG()2:00PM already started 17:59:51 zakim, please call MSM-617 17:59:51 ok, MSM; the call is being made 17:59:52 +MSM 18:00:04 zakim, who's here? 18:00:04 On the phone I see +1.530.823.aaaa, +1.828.645.aabb, +1.425.836.aacc, MSM 18:00:07 On IRC I see Sandy, Kumar, ginny, RRSAgent, Zakim, pratul, Julia, MSM, trackbot-ng 18:00:11 meeting: W3C SML Teleconference of 2008-03-27 18:00:13 chair: Pratul 18:00:14 +[Microsoft] 18:00:15 Kirk has joined #sml 18:00:35 scribe: Virginia Smith 18:00:37 scribenick: ginny 18:00:39 zakim, aacc is me 18:00:39 +Kumar; got it 18:00:53 Zakim, Microsoft is me 18:00:53 +pratul; got it 18:00:55 rrsagent, make log public 18:01:01 + +1.603.823.aadd 18:01:08 zakim, aaaa is me 18:01:08 +ginny; got it 18:01:17 zakin, aadd is me 18:01:23 +Sandy 18:01:31 zakim, aaddis me 18:01:31 I don't understand 'aaddis me', Kirk 18:01:44 zakim, aadd is me 18:01:44 +Kirk; got it 18:01:54 JA has joined #sml 18:02:06 zakim, who's here? 18:02:06 On the phone I see ginny, +1.828.645.aabb, Kumar, MSM, pratul, Kirk, Sandy 18:02:08 On IRC I see JA, Kirk, Sandy, Kumar, ginny, RRSAgent, Zakim, pratul, Julia, MSM, trackbot-ng 18:02:43 +johnarwe 18:02:55 + +1.610.277.aaee 18:03:22 Jim has joined #sml 18:03:25 Topic: Approval of previous meeting minutes 18:03:34 No objections noted. 18:03:48 Topic: Action Items 18:04:04 06zakim, aabb is me 18:05:23 no action items completed 18:05:46 Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5545 18:06:37 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5580 18:06:38 dependent on bug 5580 18:06:42 Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5580 18:08:00 zeckert has joined #sml 18:08:39 +Zulah_Eckert 18:08:46 Resolution: proposal approved; mark as editorial 18:09:35 Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5545 18:12:10 Kumar: Bases on resolution of bug 5580, we should mark as won't fix and append an explanation 18:12:25 s/Bases/Based/ 18:12:48 Jim2 has joined #sml 18:13:40 Sandy: bug 5580 only changes URI reference in the URI scheme; there are other references in the spec 18:13:41 John: 4.3, 3b; 4.3.1, paragraph2 18:13:59 q+ to propose responding (1) that we believe the right way to connect to the RFCs is by saying things are values of xs:anyURI, and (2) to say that we are not aware of overriding any semantics mandated by RFC 3986, and to ask in what ways he believes we are doing so. 18:17:44 Discussion of rfc 2396 vs 3986 18:19:08 s/Kumar/Pratul/ 18:21:25 Sandy: Does MSM's proposal mean we remove all references to URI references not just in URI scheme 18:22:02 ex 1: sml, lc, 4.3 3b 18:22:14 ex 2: sml, lc, 4.3.1 1 para 2 18:24:17 MSM: revise proposal to say we think we do reference 3986; if that was true in the version you reviewed, that is no longer true. 18:25:55 sml spec does not have the string "media type" anywhere 18:26:44 MSM: look at what XInclude does with 'media type' 18:27:19 kumar: is there an rfc that specifies fragment identifiers for xml media type 18:27:32 Kumar: 3023 does not define any syntax for xml media type 18:27:39 3023 has NOT been superseded 18:27:43 5. Fragment Identifiers 18:27:44 18:27:44 Section 4.1 of [RFC2396] notes that the semantics of a fragment 18:27:44 identifier (the part of a URI after a "#") is a property of the data 18:27:47 resulting from a retrieval action, and that the format and 18:27:50 interpretation of fragment identifiers is dependent on the media type 18:27:53 of the retrieval result. 18:27:55 18:27:58 As of today, no established specifications define identifiers for XML 18:28:02 media types. However, a working draft published by W3C, namely "XML 18:28:05 Pointer Language (XPointer)", attempts to define fragment identifiers 18:28:08 for text/xml and application/xml. The current specification for 18:28:11 XPointer is available at http://www.w3.org/TR/xptr. 18:30:10 MSM: noone supports all URIs; most specify what they support 18:30:56 MSM: support for only 1 xpointer scheme is not overriding the semantics 18:31:30 Pratul: use MSM's initial proposal 18:35:56 Our response: 18:35:56 [1] 18:35:56 The definition of the SML URI scheme is based on xs:anyURI as defined by XML schema 1.0 specification (which depends on RFC 2396 & RFC 2732). This is why we do not specifically refer to RFC 3986 in the definition of SML URI scheme. 18:35:59 18:36:03 [2] 18:36:06 The SML WG believes that the specification does not override any RFC mandated URI semantics. Can you please clarify what part of the specification overrides the RFC ? 18:36:37 Pratul: suggest mention specific rfc in #2 18:38:23 Resolution: #1 above. Also paste response as specified by Kumar into bug asking for clarification. Mark bug 'decided'. 18:39:14 s/response/response (#2)/ 18:40:39 ... also refer to resolution of bug 5580 18:41:49 5541 18:42:04 Topic: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5541 18:42:54 RESOLUTION: fix per comment #2; mark as editorial 18:43:59 Topic: Bug 5341 18:48:20 Postponed to allow more time for review. 18:48:40 Topic: Bug 5283 18:49:41 Discussion still taking place on this bug 18:49:49 Topic: Bug 5298 18:51:04 q+ to say I'd like to lose the word "scheme" in this context entirely. 18:52:44 Proposal is to use SML URI Reference scheme 18:54:54 maybe 'method' ? 18:56:38 strategy... 18:56:40 whatever 18:57:07 pattern, form, formula, fred 18:57:33 philosophy 18:57:50 RESOLUTION: Use "SML URI Reference scheme"; mark editorial. If someone comes up with a better name later we can reopen. 18:58:15 Topic: Bug 5518 18:58:51 in 5513, might want to point to the other bug we resolved today where we ack the ability to default sml:ref 18:59:43 Jim has joined #sml 19:14:10 Possible response on 5518: 19:14:10 There are answers on at least two levels. 19:14:11 First, the ability to attach assertions to either elements or types ia 19:14:11 intrinsically part of Schematron, and should be overridden only with 19:14:11 good reason. 19:14:11 Second, we believe there is good reason for allowing assertions on 19:14:13 both elements and types. Our experience is that some vocabulary 19:14:15 designers work in a type-centered way, some in an element-centered 19:14:17 way, and many in ways spread out along the scale. Restriction of 19:14:19 functionality to types, and not allowing it on elements, favors one 19:14:21 style of vocabulary design over the others; we are not certain, 19:14:23 however, that type-centered design is the only style that needs to be 19:14:25 supported. 19:14:35 The same issue informs the SML design with regard to targetType, etc. 19:18:19 zakim, who is here? 19:18:19 On the phone I see ginny, +1.828.645.aabb, Kumar, MSM, pratul, Kirk, Sandy, johnarwe, +1.610.277.aaee, Zulah_Eckert 19:18:22 On IRC I see Jim, zeckert, JA, Kirk, Sandy, Kumar, ginny, RRSAgent, Zakim, pratul, Julia, MSM, trackbot-ng 19:20:44 zakim, aaee is me 19:20:44 +Jim; got it 19:20:45 RESOLUTION: Paste paragraph above starting with "Second" into bug as working group response along with 'official response template' 19:21:02 Bug 5519 19:21:24 s/Bug 5519/Topic: Bug 5519/ 19:22:28 to MSM: Henry had pre-LC, we made the chg to declarative in LC 19:26:47 RESOLUTION: working group response is that we fixed this in the Last Call draft; mark as 'decided'. Henry should get back to us if he reviews LC and disagrees. 19:27:01 Bug 5520 19:27:17 s/Bug 5520/Topic: Bug 5520/ 19:29:16 [For the record, I recorded my thoughts on this topic in two blog posts at http://people.w3.org/~cmsmcq/blog/?p=42 and http://people.w3.org/~cmsmcq/blog/?p=43] 19:35:28 MSM: XML serialization is one representation of an infoset 19:37:43 [I should point out, of course, if it's not already obvious, that on this topic I am not speaking for the XML Schema WG. Sandy may have other views on the matter, and on whether the XSD decision to allow 'infosets' as input instead of 'XML' has had good or bad effects.] 19:45:57 q+ is this not functionally equivalent to saying "let the market decide" if you are [usefully, in the eyes of users] compliant? i.e. that the common understanding of "xml document" will in practice rule the day, and it is a fool's errand to attempt to cover all the alternatives? 19:46:32 is this not functionally equivalent to saying "let the market decide" if you are [usefully, in the eyes of users] compliant? i.e. that the common understanding of "xml document" will in practice rule the day, and it is a fool's errand to attempt to cover all the alternatives? 19:48:11 Postponing this bug for later discussion 19:48:21 [JA, by "this" do you mean "the proposal in bug 5520"? or "the proposal to decline the suggestion in 5520"?] 19:48:28 Topic: Bug 5527 19:49:09 I meant MSM's discussion around what is provable wrt a given impl 19:50:24 Kumar: namespace is optional because the function must be from a given namespace; nothing else is allowed 19:53:46 [For the record, Michael Kay's book on XSLT 1.0 says (p. 452) "extension functions provided by ... third parties should always be in a different namespace and will need to have a namespace prefix when called."] 19:54:19 Pratul: dropping it completely might be cleaner approach if required namespace is ugly 19:54:35 Kumar: keep it the way it is or, if causing problems, make it mandatory 19:55:31 Regrets: Jordan 19:55:42 zakim, list attendees 19:55:42 As of this point the attendees have been +1.530.823.aaaa, +1.828.645.aabb, +1.425.836.aacc, MSM, Kumar, pratul, +1.603.823.aadd, ginny, Sandy, Kirk, johnarwe, +1.610.277.aaee, 19:55:44 rrsagent, generate minutes 19:55:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-sml-minutes.html ginny 19:55:46 ... Zulah_Eckert, Jim 19:56:36 zakim, who's here? 19:56:36 On the phone I see ginny, +1.828.645.aabb, Kumar, MSM, pratul, Kirk, Sandy, johnarwe, Jim, Zulah_Eckert 19:56:38 On IRC I see Jim, zeckert, JA, Kirk, Sandy, Kumar, ginny, RRSAgent, Zakim, pratul, Julia, MSM, trackbot-ng 19:57:06 06zakim, aabb is /me 19:58:25 http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xpath-19991116#NT-FunctionName 19:59:46 06zakim, aabb is me 20:00:56 -Jim 20:04:20 -Zulah_Eckert 20:05:14 Postponed for further discussion 20:05:14 -pratul 20:05:16 - +1.828.645.aabb 20:05:18 -MSM 20:05:18 rrsagent, generate minutes 20:05:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-sml-minutes.html ginny 20:05:18 -Sandy 20:05:20 -Kumar 20:05:24 -Kirk 20:05:28 -johnarwe 20:05:29 -ginny 20:05:29 XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended 20:05:30 Attendees were +1.530.823.aaaa, +1.828.645.aabb, +1.425.836.aacc, MSM, Kumar, pratul, +1.603.823.aadd, ginny, Sandy, Kirk, johnarwe, +1.610.277.aaee, Zulah_Eckert, Jim 20:07:14 Julia has left #sml 20:35:33 JA has left #sml 22:17:45 Zakim has left #sml