IRC log of er on 2008-03-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:26:52 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #er
13:26:52 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:27:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #er
13:27:06 [shadi]
zakim, this will be ert
13:27:06 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:27:11 [shadi]
meeting: ERT WG
13:27:15 [shadi]
chair: Shadi
13:27:21 [shadi]
scribe: Johannes
13:28:15 [shadi]
13:28:33 [shadi]
agenda+ Comments on WCAG 2.0 by CarlosI
13:28:40 [shadi]
agenda+ WCAG 2.0 conformance section
13:28:50 [shadi]
agenda+ Recording "Web Page" and state
13:29:00 [shadi]
agenda+ Progressing ERT documents
13:29:12 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has now started
13:29:13 [Zakim]
13:31:22 [carlosI]
carlosI has joined #er
13:34:47 [Zakim]
13:35:21 [JohannesK]
JohannesK has joined #er
13:35:46 [Zakim]
13:36:42 [JohannesK]
Zakim, Klaus is really Johannes
13:36:42 [Zakim]
+Johannes; got it
13:36:43 [shadi]
scribenick: JohannesK
13:36:49 [shadi]
13:37:08 [shadi]
zakim, take up agendum 1
13:37:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Comments on WCAG 2.0 by CarlosI" taken up [from shadi]
13:39:41 [CarlosV]
CarlosV has joined #er
13:40:34 [Zakim]
13:40:54 [shadi]
zakim, johannes.a is really CarlosV
13:40:54 [Zakim]
+CarlosV; got it
13:40:58 [JohannesK]
RESOLUTION: CarlosI lets the group know about the follow-up on his comments.
13:41:42 [JohannesK]
saz: are there any more comments on WCAG 2?
13:43:12 [JohannesK]
ci: some measures in the guidelines should go to techniques, as the values may change over time
13:43:24 [JohannesK]
ci: e.g. 200% zoom
13:44:14 [JohannesK]
saz: there's already a comment sent to WCAG group
13:44:41 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
13:44:41 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "WCAG 2.0 conformance section" taken up [from shadi]
13:45:47 [JohannesK]
saz: last week's action items on commenting on conformance section
13:47:02 [JohannesK]
cv: postpone the issue to net week
13:48:19 [JohannesK]
saz: I still not really understand the issue.
13:49:08 [JohannesK]
saz: several axes: 1. developing content, 2. testing after/while development, 3. third party testing
13:50:13 [JohannesK]
ci: definition of Web Page contains more than traditionally belongs to the Web page
13:50:36 [JohannesK]
ci: more the user's view of web content
13:51:27 [JohannesK]
saz: on the web nowadays, what is a web page?
13:52:01 [JohannesK]
ci: what you first load from URI is th web page
13:52:40 [JohannesK]
saz: different state of web page?
13:53:20 [JohannesK]
saz: former terminology: Web Unit
13:53:37 [JohannesK]
saz: nobody understood "web unit"
13:54:04 [JohannesK]
saz: so they went back to call it "web page" but defined it like a web unit
13:55:36 [JohannesK]
ci: different things require different ways of testing
13:56:00 [JohannesK]
ci: current tesiting procedure only apply to traditional web pages
13:56:16 [JohannesK]
13:57:32 [JohannesK]
ci: how to predict every way of interacting with an application front-end?
13:59:12 [JohannesK]
saz: it's more software testing than traditional web page testing
14:02:36 [JohannesK]
ci: no matter what you already tested, there will always be some bugs (accessibility problems) not found
14:03:56 [JohannesK]
saz: every technical spec has a conformance section
14:09:48 [JohannesK]
ci: traditionally accessible means 100% perfect, but there's no perfection in reality
14:12:16 [JohannesK]
ci: you can't claim AA compliance when you have not tested every page in every state; that's impossible
14:13:33 [JohannesK]
cv: UWEM approach is to test reasonable amount of resources
14:16:01 [JohannesK]
jk: testing states of a web page is somehow subjective (creating sample of states); someone else may test another sample and so claims non-conformance for the same web page
14:17:56 [JohannesK]
saz: it depends on testing methodology
14:19:48 [shadi]
14:19:54 [JohannesK]
saz: possible solution: technical spec defines absolute conformance; evaluation procedure (to be updated) may include tolerance and process issues
14:22:14 [JohannesK]
ci: maybe create a task force for creating evaluation methodology
14:24:06 [JohannesK]
saz: evaluation guidance to be updated, interested parties e.g. in Europe/USA
14:25:23 [JohannesK]
ci: is the conformance model necessary in the WCAG guidelines themselves?
14:25:37 [JohannesK]
saz: every technical spec should have one
14:27:48 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:27:48 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Recording "Web Page" and state" taken up [from shadi]
14:30:08 [JohannesK]
saz: is serializing DOM and putting intoXMLContent sufficient for now?
14:30:18 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
14:30:18 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Progressing ERT documents" taken up [from shadi]
14:31:03 [JohannesK]
saz: several open action items
14:31:20 [JohannesK]
saz: editing/reviewing documents
14:32:41 [JohannesK]
cv: namespace for Content document?
14:32:58 [JohannesK]
saz: I will request it for publication
14:33:21 [JohannesK]
saz: publish both Content and HTTP together
14:34:09 [Zakim]
14:34:20 [JohannesK]
cv: waiting for pointers to be finalized
14:34:29 [Zakim]
14:34:36 [Zakim]
14:36:57 [shadi]
zakim, drop carlosI
14:36:57 [Zakim]
Carlos_Iglesias is being disconnected
14:36:58 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has ended
14:36:59 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shadi, Carlos_Iglesias, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, Johannes, CarlosV
14:37:02 [shadi]
zakim, bye
14:37:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #er
14:37:10 [shadi]
rrsgent, make logs world
14:37:25 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
14:37:30 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:37:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate shadi
14:37:34 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
14:37:40 [shadi]
rrsagent, bye
14:37:40 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items