IRC log of core on 2008-03-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:47:27 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #core
18:47:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-core-irc
18:47:32 [aphillip]
zakim, this will be I18N
18:47:32 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, aphillip
18:47:40 [aphillip]
zakim, this will be i18n
18:47:40 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, aphillip
18:47:57 [aphillip]
zakim, bye
18:47:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #core
19:54:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #core
19:54:37 [aphillip]
zakim, this will be i18n
19:54:37 [Zakim]
ok, aphillip; I see I18N_CoreWG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
19:54:51 [aphillip]
Meeting: Internationalization Core WG
19:55:00 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
19:55:05 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
19:55:09 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillip
19:55:19 [aphillip]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
19:55:49 [aphillip]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Homework
19:55:55 [aphillip]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:55:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-core-minutes.html aphillip
19:57:44 [aphillip]
Regrets: Michelle
20:00:23 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()4:00PM has now started
20:00:30 [Zakim]
+Addison
20:00:36 [aphillip]
zakim, Addison is aphillips
20:00:36 [Zakim]
+aphillips; got it
20:00:40 [aphillip]
er...
20:00:52 [aphillip]
zakim, aphillips is aphillip
20:00:52 [Zakim]
+aphillip; got it
20:00:57 [aphillip]
zakim, who is here?
20:00:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aphillip
20:00:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, aphillip
20:01:12 [Zakim]
+Michael_Monaghan
20:01:38 [Mick]
Mick has joined #core
20:01:54 [DavidClarke]
DavidClarke has joined #core
20:02:12 [r12a]
r12a has joined #core
20:02:17 [r12a]
zakim, dial richard please
20:02:17 [Zakim]
ok, r12a; the call is being made
20:02:19 [Zakim]
+Richard
20:02:29 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #core
20:02:49 [Zakim]
+ +0044797368aaaa
20:02:53 [Zakim]
+Felix
20:02:58 [r12a]
zakim, who's here ?
20:02:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aphillip, Michael_Monaghan, Richard, +0044797368aaaa, Felix (muted)
20:03:00 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fsasaki, r12a, DavidClarke, Mick, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip
20:03:01 [aphillip]
zakim, +0044 is DavidClarke
20:03:01 [Zakim]
+DavidClarke; got it
20:03:09 [aphillip]
zakim, who's here?
20:03:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aphillip, Michael_Monaghan, Richard, DavidClarke, Felix
20:03:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fsasaki, r12a, DavidClarke, Mick, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip
20:03:29 [aphillip]
RRSAgent, make minutes
20:03:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-core-minutes.html aphillip
20:03:46 [aphillip]
http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Homework
20:04:00 [aphillip]
Topic: Agenda
20:05:10 [aphillip]
Topic: Action Items
20:05:19 [aphillip]
Addison to finish revising Unicode Migration for publication; Addison to resolve editing issues
20:05:43 [aphillip]
Addison: write basic outline in wiki for a note on case folding
20:05:55 [aphillip]
Addison: update review radar also blog post, etc.
20:06:13 [aphillip]
Mick: revise his proposal and send to public list as a reference for future inquiries about bidi entities
20:06:26 [aphillip]
DONE
20:07:03 [aphillip]
agenda plus for discussing mick's proposal
20:07:10 [aphillip]
Addison: Write to WebAPI WG chair expressing our concern about non-i18n statement and lack of i18n in widgets 1.0 WD
20:07:20 [aphillip]
Andrew: create notes on how to use the wiki template
20:07:39 [aphillip]
Addison to request new schedule following 2 April
20:07:53 [aphillip]
Addison to reschedule the meeting for the next couple of weeks to follow DST in USA
20:08:00 [aphillip]
DONE
20:08:08 [aphillip]
Addison: produce list of documents and add to pipeline
20:08:22 [aphillip]
DONE
20:08:39 [aphillip]
Topic: Info Share
20:09:23 [aphillip]
http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Pipeline
20:11:55 [aphillip]
richard: one teammate published a blog to say that we have reached 1000 translations on the W3C website; and unicode really helped that
20:12:15 [aphillip]
... and I have four more, so it's 1004; our first ukrainian ones among them
20:13:14 [aphillip]
mick: linking between translations is okay on w3 site, since content negotiation is used; need some hints on managing translations for sites that can't do this would be useful
20:14:21 [aphillip]
richard: w3 site (outside i18n) uses a different format--uses a database and no links appear on the pages themselves
20:15:03 [aphillip]
mick: we've done things with automation to list the translations available
20:15:11 [Mick]
http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hubs/multilingual/japanese/content/install_multi_solaris.jsp
20:15:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-core-minutes.html aphillip
20:16:56 [aphillip]
---
20:17:13 [aphillip]
Topic: XLink 1.1 LC
20:17:27 [aphillip]
addison: issued their last call announce
20:17:33 [aphillip]
... LEIRIs are in
20:18:26 [aphillip]
... want to comment on this positiviely as a WG
20:18:54 [aphillip]
Topic: XML-Spec usage for WG Note status document
20:19:14 [aphillip]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2008JanMar/0101.html
20:19:44 [aphillip]
richard: was editing bidi best practices yesterday... bit painful, since I had to keep generating the document
20:19:59 [aphillip]
... not using xmetal, so it might be easier to use html directly
20:20:19 [aphillip]
... and if we go back to charmod, it'll take some DTD archaeology to fix the docs up
20:20:29 [aphillip]
... on the other hand, there are lots of good things to using xml
20:20:38 [aphillip]
... for one thing, the docs are consistent
20:20:43 [aphillip]
.. and always valid, etc.
20:20:51 [aphillip]
... can easily number things, etc. etc.
20:21:25 [aphillip]
... on the gripping hand, if you want to change anything, it requires that you edit a bunch of stuff, like DTD and XSLT
20:21:38 [aphillip]
... so the question in my head was: should would change to html?
20:22:14 [aphillip]
... maybe let authors decide?
20:23:01 [aphillip]
felix: add a couple points
20:23:11 [aphillip]
... xml pain first, easy later
20:23:18 [aphillip]
... html easy first, pain later
20:24:20 [aphillip]
felix: might disagree about leaving to editor
20:24:50 [aphillip]
... try to convince folks to change over, maybe, since it provides more flexibility
20:25:10 [aphillip]
... differences between TR and Editor version, for example, easier to maintain using XSL
20:26:31 [fsasaki]
addison: xml provides a significant learning curve
20:26:42 [fsasaki]
.. but if things work it is easier to get things done
20:26:56 [fsasaki]
.. I support the idea of XML
20:27:07 [fsasaki]
.. but we have to be careful about non TR documents
20:27:18 [aphillip]
aphillip has left #core
20:27:30 [fsasaki]
Richard: if we did use XHTML it would need to be carefully controlled
20:27:50 [Zakim]
-aphillip
20:27:51 [fsasaki]
.. have stylesheet checking etc.
20:28:19 [fsasaki]
Mick: choice of XML or HTML:
20:28:31 [fsasaki]
.. barrier of usage is a problem, but I don't really care
20:28:40 [fsasaki]
.. for people, XHTML is simpler
20:29:02 [fsasaki]
Richard: XHTML appears simpler but we'd have to put a lot of constraints on people for editing
20:29:20 [fsasaki]
Mick: if people edit people their own XHTML - what are the consequences?
20:29:45 [fsasaki]
Richard: you need be sure that things work
20:30:15 [fsasaki]
.. e.g. in character model we extracted a list of conformance constraints, or example numbering
20:32:27 [fsasaki]
.. we'd also need to do checking
20:35:29 [fsasaki]
Felix: checking might not be so powerful if you use XHTML, compared to the xmlspec
20:36:21 [fsasaki]
.. people might also give us invalid XHTML which we'd need to clean up
20:36:32 [fsasaki]
Mick: is validation during upload possible?
20:36:34 [fsasaki]
Richard: no
20:36:52 [fsasaki]
.. we currently use XHTML 1.0
20:37:15 [fsasaki]
David: doesn't matter to me which (X)HTML version
20:38:14 [fsasaki]
Felix: think this discussion is only relevant for TR space publications, not things published on our i18n site
20:38:29 [fsasaki]
Richard: agree
20:39:00 [fsasaki]
.. was always a strong supporter for XML document
20:39:10 [fsasaki]
.. just wanted to re-visited that
20:39:47 [fsasaki]
David: comment on Dream weaver and BOM
20:39:57 [fsasaki]
Richard: there is an option about tht
20:40:07 [fsasaki]
s/tht/that/
20:40:48 [fsasaki]
topic: documents to work on
20:41:04 [fsasaki]
Richard: charmod IRI, norm, LTLI, i18n-ws need to be edited
20:42:09 [fsasaki]
Felix: LTLI might be hot, but might take long time until it's done
20:42:54 [fsasaki]
Richard: chardmod norm has been going for a long time and we refer to it frequently, would be good to have it done
20:43:09 [fsasaki]
Mick: propose just to pick one and start with it
20:43:21 [fsasaki]
David: agree with Mick - choose one
20:43:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-core-minutes.html fsasaki
20:44:08 [fsasaki]
David: soft preference for charmod norm
20:44:21 [fsasaki]
Richard: we'll discuss this next week again with Addison
20:44:38 [fsasaki]
topic: entities mail from Mick
20:44:51 [fsasaki]
Mick: was a rewording of the original mail I had send out
20:45:03 [fsasaki]
Richard: let's discuss again with Addison on the call
20:45:19 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Core_Homework
20:46:12 [fsasaki]
Richard: feel free to edit the homework page (to add this to the agenda). Everybody can do that during the week
20:46:27 [Zakim]
-Michael_Monaghan
20:46:30 [Zakim]
-Felix
20:46:31 [Zakim]
-Richard
20:46:35 [Zakim]
-DavidClarke
20:46:36 [fsasaki]
adjourned
20:46:37 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()4:00PM has ended
20:46:38 [Zakim]
Attendees were aphillip, Michael_Monaghan, Richard, +0044797368aaaa, Felix, DavidClarke
20:46:55 [fsasaki]
present: Addison (partly), Michael, David, Richard, Felix
20:46:59 [fsasaki]
regrets: Michelle
20:47:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-core-minutes.html fsasaki
20:47:40 [fsasaki]
scribe: Addison, Felix
20:47:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/12-core-minutes.html fsasaki
20:49:01 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, bye
20:49:01 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items