15:05:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xproc
15:05:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-xproc-irc
15:06:03 <Norm> Zakim, this will be xproc
15:06:03 <Zakim> ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 54 minutes
15:26:35 <Norm> XProc WG meets on 6 Mar at 11:00 EST, http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/06-agenda
15:47:23 <MoZ> MoZ has joined #xproc
15:53:00 <Norm> Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
15:53:00 <Norm> Date: 6 March 2008
15:53:00 <Norm> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/06-agenda
15:53:00 <Norm> Meeting: 103
15:53:00 <Norm> Chair: Norm
15:53:01 <Norm> Scribe: Norm
15:53:03 <Norm> ScribeNick: Norm
15:53:43 <ruilopes> ruilopes has joined #xproc
15:55:30 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started
15:55:37 <Zakim> +Norm
15:55:45 <PGrosso> PGrosso has joined #xproc
15:56:43 <Zakim> +??P3
15:56:46 <Zakim> -Norm
15:56:48 <Zakim> +Norm
15:56:50 <ruilopes> Zakim, ? is me
15:56:50 <Zakim> +ruilopes; got it
15:57:37 <MoZ> Zakim, what is the code?
15:57:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MoZ
15:58:13 <alexmilowski> alexmilowski has joined #xproc
15:58:30 <Zakim> + +95247aaaa
15:58:33 <MoZ> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:33 <Zakim> +MoZ; got it
15:59:32 <Zakim> + +1.415.404.aabb
15:59:48 <MoZ> Zakim, aabb is Alex
15:59:48 <Zakim> +Alex; got it
16:00:08 <MoZ> Zakim, who is here ?
16:00:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Norm, ruilopes, MoZ, Alex
16:00:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see alexmilowski, PGrosso, ruilopes, MoZ, RRSAgent, Zakim, MSM, Norm
16:00:27 <MoZ> Zakim, Alex is alexmilowski 
16:00:27 <Zakim> +alexmilowski; got it
16:00:32 <MoZ> Zakim, who is here ?
16:00:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Norm, ruilopes, MoZ, alexmilowski
16:00:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see alexmilowski, PGrosso, ruilopes, MoZ, RRSAgent, Zakim, MSM, Norm
16:00:54 <Zakim> +[ArborText]
16:01:03 <Zakim> +Murray_Maloney
16:01:51 <Norm> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Norm, ruilopes, MoZ, alexmilowski, PGrosso, Murray_Maloney
16:03:08 <richard> richard has joined #xproc
16:04:38 <Zakim> +??P6
16:04:39 <richard> zakim, ? is me
16:04:39 <Zakim> +richard; got it
16:05:13 <Norm> Present: Norm, Rui, Mohamed, Alex, Paul, Richard, Murray
16:05:17 <Norm> MSM, XProc?
16:05:41 <Norm> Topic: Accept this agenda?
16:05:41 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/06-agenda
16:05:52 <AndrewF> AndrewF has joined #xproc
16:05:54 <Norm> Accepted.
16:05:59 <Norm> Present: Norm, Rui, Mohamed, Alex, Paul, Richard, Murray, Andrew
16:06:05 <Norm> Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
16:06:05 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/02/14-minutes
16:06:21 <Zakim> +??P7
16:06:27 <AndrewF> Zakim, ? is Andrew
16:06:27 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
16:06:28 <Norm> Accepted.
16:06:36 <Norm> Topic: Next meeting: telcon 13 March 2008?
16:07:09 <Norm> Mohamed gives probably regrets, perhaps until our respective daylight savings times align
16:07:15 <Norm> Andrew gives regrets for next week
16:07:24 <Norm> Topic: Last call comments
16:07:30 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments.html
16:07:54 <Norm> Topic: 58. Scope of options
16:08:08 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#C058
16:08:24 <Norm> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2008Feb/0066.html
16:11:01 <Norm> Norm attempts to summarize his message 66.
16:11:20 <Norm> Richard: So options obscure inherited options immediately.
16:12:32 <Norm> Norm: Yes.
16:13:21 <Norm> Richard: How is this like XSLT?
16:13:23 <Norm> Norm: It's the same.
16:13:37 <Norm> s/It's/The solution I conclude with in message 66 is/
16:14:08 <Norm> Norm: Anyone think more time on the list will help?
16:14:15 <Norm> Mohamed: No, I don't think so.
16:14:27 <Norm> Richard: There are three different situations in which you use p:option:
16:14:33 <Norm> ...1. When calling an atomic step
16:14:40 <Norm> ...2. When declaring an atomic step
16:14:50 <Norm> ...3. In a compound step where it counts as both.
16:15:17 <Norm> Norm: Yes.
16:15:52 <Norm> Richard: In the calling of an atomic step, does it bind it in there as well? If you bind 'a' on atomic step, does that get used immediately.
16:16:28 <Norm> Norm: No. That's the subtle distinction, options in atomic steps aren't declarations.
16:17:11 <Norm> Richard: Right. So that's the expected behavior. I think that sounds like the best we can do.
16:17:25 <Norm> Norm: Anyone else?
16:18:47 <Norm> Alex: Could we just start over?
16:19:41 <MSM> zakim, please call MSM-617
16:19:41 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
16:19:42 <Zakim> +MSM
16:19:50 <Norm> Some discussion of getting rid of the current parameter mechanism and using p:param and p:with-param here.
16:19:52 <MSM> zakim, drop MSM
16:19:52 <Zakim> MSM is being disconnected
16:19:53 <Zakim> -MSM
16:20:30 <Norm> Present: Norm, Rui, Mohamed, Alex, Paul, Richard, Murray, Andrew, Michael[xx:20-]
16:20:37 <MSM> zakim, please call MSM-617
16:20:37 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made
16:20:39 <Zakim> +MSM
16:22:22 <Norm> Richard: The case of options on a subpipeline, that's more like variable than parameters.
16:23:02 <Norm> ...We're left with option on an atomic step decl is like xsl:param, option on an atomic step is like xsl:with-param, and option on a compound step is like xsl:variable
16:23:07 <Norm> Norm: Yes, I think so.
16:23:48 <Norm> Norm: There's a sense in which I'd like to add p:variable, but I'm reluctant.
16:26:24 <Norm> The analogy in XSLT would be:
16:26:25 <Norm> <xsl:param name="match" select="'MATCHSTUFF'"/>
16:26:25 <Norm> <xsl:call-template name="...">
16:26:25 <Norm>   <xsl:with-param name="match" select="'//a[@foo]'"/>
16:26:25 <Norm>   <xsl:with-param name="attribute-value" select="$match"/>
16:26:25 <Norm> </xsl:call-template>
16:27:15 <PGrosso> ac
16:27:32 <Norm> Richard: Renaming the things is something we can do or not do regardless of how we decide the scoping quesiton.
16:27:45 <Norm> ...We should do this now and deal with renaming later.
16:28:20 <Norm> Richard: I agree with Michael in principle that it would be easier if we renamed things.
16:28:40 <Norm> Michael: Why do we not have a single name proposed for all instances of calling things?
16:29:31 <Norm> Norm: We have the design we arrived at by consensus :-)
16:30:05 <Norm> Richard/Michael discuss how this is related to ALGOL and Lisp
16:30:25 <Norm> Proposed: we finesse the problem and say that the options that are in scope are all of those *declared* by preceding-siblings or *declared* by ancestors.
16:30:30 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #xproc
16:32:05 <Norm> Michael: I like that, and I'd like to call 1 and 3 option and 2 with-option.
16:33:08 <Norm> Richard: I think what I'd like is to rename options to parameters, so we have param, with-param and variable and the things we currently call parameters we call something else.
16:33:26 <Norm> Norm: Absent a proposal that replaces our current parameter mechanism, I don't think that's practical.
16:34:34 <Norm> Michael: Our existing parameters are things we hand off to black boxes. Right?
16:34:42 <Norm> Norm: yes.
16:35:00 <Norm> Michael: They are the name/value pairs I give to XSLT ot initialize xsl:params at the top-most level of the stylesheet.
16:35:07 <Norm> ...I don't know how this related to one stylesheet calling another.
16:35:12 <Norm> s/related/relates/
16:36:16 <Norm> ...I'd be happy to use with-param for all of them
16:36:29 <Norm> Norm: We have options and parameters and we need to keep those two bags separate
16:38:12 <Norm> Some discussion of options and paramters and namespaces and lions and tigers and bears
16:38:27 <MSM> my firefox has decided to launch a background process; i've got to kill it
16:38:35 <Norm> Richard: Is it productive to continue talking about this here? If someone can come up with a better ansewr, I'd be delighted, but I doubt it's going to happen in the next 20 minutes.
16:38:57 <Norm> Proposed: we finesse the problem and say that the options that are in scope are all of those *declared* by preceding-siblings or *declared* by ancestors.
16:39:27 <Norm> Accepted.
16:39:36 <MSM> so they are unprefixed in practice, but qualified in theory -- analogy to the QT function namespace
16:39:44 <Norm> Topic: #83 Handling of system IDs
16:39:57 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#C083
16:40:08 <Norm> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2008Feb/0022.html
16:41:16 <Norm> Norm: We really need to work this one out. I'm not sure we can do it in 20 minutes, though...
16:42:03 <Norm> Norm: Perhaps someone would take an action to come back with a proposal.
16:42:16 <Norm> Richard proposes Henry.
16:43:32 <Norm> ACTION: Norm to try to get Henry to tell us the right answer.
16:44:04 <Norm> Topic: #119 (editorial) p:directory-list
16:44:25 <Norm> ACTION: Alex to fix p:directory-list
16:44:59 <Norm> Topic: #124 p:log feels clunky
16:45:10 <Norm> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments#C124
16:45:58 <Norm> Norm: I'm not inclined to go there, it requires solving the mixing several streams of XML into a single document problem.
16:46:10 <Norm> Proposed: Reject.
16:46:16 <Norm> Accepted.
16:46:44 <Norm> Topic: #125 The 'href' attribute
16:47:04 <Norm> Norm: The commenter wonders why we call things that aren't hypertext references "href". The answer is precedent. So why  not on xsl-formatter?
16:48:36 <Norm> Richard: I don't think href is used for places that you're going to write *to*
16:49:04 <Norm> Norm: Anyone feel strongly that we should resolve this inconsistency?
16:49:18 <MSM> Norm (and MSM, silently): yes, it is, at least for XSLT 2.0 result documents.
16:50:02 <Norm> Alex: Is this really inconsistent?
16:50:11 <Norm> Mohamed: I think we should use href everywhere.
16:50:15 <Norm> Alex: I agree.
16:50:30 <Norm> Proposed: Rename uri on p:xsl-formatter to href
16:50:32 <Norm> Accepted.
16:51:01 <Norm> Topic: Comment #126 p:pipeline name attribute
16:52:01 <Norm> Norm isn't sure he understands the question
16:52:23 <Norm> Richard: We did talk about this before, if you wanted to name it for some purpose other than calling it, you might want to give it a name.
16:52:41 <Norm> Mohamed: You could use the p:declare-step form if you wanted to name it, right?
16:52:43 <Norm> Norm: yes
16:53:09 <Norm> Norm: I'm not sure if that means we should allow a name on p:pipeline or nt.
16:53:16 <Norm> s/or nt/or not/
16:53:45 <Norm> ACTION: Norm to point out p:declare-step to the commenter and see if they're satisfied.
16:53:58 <Norm> Topic: #109 REsponse headers in p:http-request
16:54:03 <Norm> s/REs/Res/
16:54:11 <Norm> Norm: Alex, this is on your radar?
16:54:30 <Norm> Alex: I already have an action to fix this.
16:54:51 <Norm> ...There's nothing to do there accept remove the content-type restriction.
16:55:00 <Norm> Norm: Ok, reply to the message when you check in the changes.
16:55:21 <Norm> Topic: Any other business?
16:55:27 <Norm> None. Adjourned.
16:55:32 <Zakim> -Murray_Maloney
16:55:51 <Zakim> -MSM
16:55:53 <Zakim> -Andrew
16:55:54 <Zakim> -ruilopes
16:55:54 <Zakim> -PGrosso
16:55:55 <Zakim> -MoZ
16:55:55 <Zakim> -richard
16:55:59 <PaulG> PaulG has left #xproc
16:56:01 <Norm> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:56:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Norm, alexmilowski
16:56:45 <Norm> ACTION: Norm to investigate parameters to sha1 for p:hash
16:57:41 <Norm> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:57:46 <Norm> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:57:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-xproc-minutes.html Norm
17:05:55 <Zakim> -Norm
17:05:56 <Zakim> -alexmilowski
17:05:57 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
17:05:58 <Zakim> Attendees were Norm, ruilopes, +95247aaaa, MoZ, +1.415.404.aabb, alexmilowski, PGrosso, Murray_Maloney, richard, Andrew, MSM
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