12:02:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #waf
12:02:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-irc
12:02:54 <claudio> claudio has joined #waf
12:03:07 <ArtB> Meeting: WAF WG's Widgets Voice Conf
12:03:13 <ArtB> Date: 6 March 2008
12:03:17 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
12:03:20 <Zakim> +??P3
12:03:25 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
12:03:28 <ArtB> Chair: Art
12:03:32 <marcos_> Zakim, ??P3 is me 
12:03:32 <Zakim> +marcos_; got it
12:04:43 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-appformats/2008Mar/0001.html
12:05:07 <benW> Marcos, we're in the process of doing so at the moment
12:05:23 <ArtB> Present: Art, Marcos, Claudio, Ben
12:05:43 <ArtB> Topic: Agenda Review
12:05:47 <ArtB> AB: any changes?
12:06:03 <ArtB> MC: I was hoping Arve would participate but I'm OK with the agenda
12:06:18 <ArtB> AB: I'll follow up with Arve to determine his status
12:06:33 <ArtB> ... important to have active participation from Opera
12:06:39 <Zakim> +Caroline
12:06:51 <ArtB> zakim, Caroline is Benoit
12:06:51 <Zakim> +Benoit; got it
12:07:14 <ArtB> Present: Art, Marcos, Claudio, Ben (BW), Benoit (BS)
12:07:15 <arve> arve has joined #waf
12:07:21 <ArtB> Topic: Charter Update
12:07:23 <arve> sorry, a bit late
12:07:27 <arve> will call in in a minute
12:07:32 <marcos_> cool
12:07:43 <ArtB> AB: I talked to Mike Smith earlier this week and he said the charter is still being reviewed by the Team
12:08:01 <ArtB> AB: it seems unlikely the "mega charter" will prevail
12:08:17 <ArtB> ... and more likely that at least two WGs will be be proposed
12:08:35 <ArtB> ... and the AC4CSR spec may be in a separate WG just for that spec
12:09:03 <ArtB> Topic: Publication Moratorium for 1H08
12:09:07 <anne> for real?
12:09:09 <anne> wow
12:09:13 <anne> that's silly
12:09:28 <marcos_> it's called the Anne Working Group
12:09:34 <ArtB> AB: the upcoming AC meeting and WWW2008 in April is cause for a moratorium
12:09:46 <ArtB> ... April 15 is the deadline for publication requests
12:09:49 <anne> seems easier to move it away from the W3c again then though, given all the overhead
12:10:20 <ArtB> AB: I will be making a WAF/Widgets preso at WWW2008
12:10:35 <ArtB> ... It would be great to have some new pubs out before the conf
12:11:12 <Zakim> + +47.66.99.aacc
12:11:21 <ArtB> zakim, aacc is Arve
12:11:21 <Zakim> +Arve; got it
12:11:36 <ArtB> MC: we can try to publish all 3 widgets doc on that date
12:11:50 <ArtB> AB: that would be fantastic
12:12:13 <ArtB> Present: Art, Marcos, Claudio, Ben (BW), Benoit (BS), Arve
12:12:40 <ArtB> BS: are your slides ready?
12:12:45 <ArtB> AB: not yet
12:12:56 <ArtB> BS: would be good for our internal presentation
12:13:00 <ArtB> AB: understand
12:13:38 <ArtB> ACTION: submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008
12:13:38 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - submit
12:13:55 <ArtB> ACTION: Barstow submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008
12:13:55 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-173 - Submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2008-03-13].
12:14:02 <marcos_> Widget presentation: http://www.slideshare.net/mcaceres/widgets-125319
12:15:59 <ArtB> Topic: f2f Meeting
12:16:29 <ArtB> AB: Guido told me yesterday he needs one more day to try to find funding to host the meeting in Dublin
12:17:21 <ArtB> ... I will give him another 24 hours
12:17:27 <ArtB> ABe: I
12:17:34 <ArtB> ABe: I'm ok with either
12:17:50 <ArtB> AB: Claudio, June 3-5 in Turin is OK?
12:17:57 <ArtB> Claudio: yes
12:18:41 <ArtB> Topic: Widgets Spec
12:19:43 <ArtB> AB: issues: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/waf/products/5
12:19:43 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #waf
12:22:22 <ArtB> AB: I've been thinking about a Level 1 and Level 2 split of the spec
12:22:22 <benoit> benoit has joined #waf
12:22:29 <ArtB> ABe: I agree to some extent
12:23:15 <ArtB> ... for example Bernardo will not be able to contribute to the PKCS#7 discussion
12:23:32 <ArtB> ... I think we need to leave some stuff off the table for L1
12:23:48 <ArtB> MC: I think we've essentially agreed on Dig Signatures
12:24:06 <ArtB> ... but we still have a few issues e.g. how much of XPath and Cannon to implement
12:24:44 <ArtB> AB: proposal to close Issue #12 with a resolution that we will use XML Signature
12:24:48 <ArtB> AB: any objections?
12:24:51 <ArtB> [none]
12:25:07 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: we will use XML Signature and close issue #12 accordingly
12:25:26 <ArtB> Topic: Level 1 and Level 2
12:25:55 <ArtB> MC: I agree as well
12:26:11 <ArtB> ... I've already mades some spec simplifications just within the last week
12:26:24 <ArtB> ... e.g. folder stuff
12:26:39 <ArtB> CV: can you assign a timeframe for L1 and L2?
12:26:58 <ArtB> ... e.g. when would a L2 spec be ready for impl?
12:27:14 <ArtB> ... I don't think the market would wait too long
12:27:43 <ArtB> MC: if you can help Edit Claudio that would help
12:27:51 <ArtB> ... us to make progress
12:28:20 <ArtB> ... we need inputs for most if not all of the red blocks
12:28:32 <ArtB> ... our goal for L1 is October Last Call
12:28:51 <ArtB> CV: and then start thinking about L2 in October?
12:29:07 <ArtB> MC: you could start L2 now
12:29:56 <ArtB> ... we could publish it when its ready e.g. technically sound, etc.
12:32:22 <marcos_> L1: packaging format (zip), Config document, Processing model, base API, base events, digital sigs
12:33:16 <marcos_> Processing model = XML Processing and how to process the package (files, folders)
12:33:38 <ArtB> BW: I agree in principle to concentrate on the basics so I support the L1 and L2 split
12:34:07 <benoit> BS: the question is really to decide if an L2 finalized can be added to the spec
12:34:52 <ArtB> MC: I think yes
12:36:34 <ArtB> ... if the items are ready, we could move them into L2
12:37:01 <ArtB> CV: I understand the concerns Marcos is raising i.e. who's going to actually do the work
12:38:49 <ArtB> ... we are particularly interested in the cross-widget messaging stuff
12:39:02 <ArtB> MC: we need an input for that
12:39:18 <ArtB> ... as Nokia did with their digital signature input
12:39:47 <ArtB> CV: OK, I'll think about it
12:40:57 <ArtB> MC: I consider section 4 and 5 essentially done
12:42:44 <ArtB> AB: we could rename the spec back to Widget Packaging Spec
12:43:08 <ArtB> ABe: I'm in favor of something like Widget Packaging and Signature spec
12:43:34 <ArtB> ... I don't think the cross-widgets messaging stuff should be in the spec at all since that functionality is part of HTML5
12:43:52 <ArtB> ... and update is specified separately
12:44:47 <ArtB> ... rather than thinking about L1 and L2 should be thinking in terms of extensions
12:45:30 <ArtB> MC: I would like this to be more modular as well; could even move the APIs to a separate  spec
12:46:45 <ArtB> CV: I'm not an HTML5 expert but I'm not sure if the Widgets cross-messaging requirements are fully covered by what is in HTML5
12:47:19 <ArtB> ABe: HTML5 probably satisfies the requirements for Widgets
12:47:44 <ArtB> CV: I just wanted to know if our Widgets Reqs are covered by HTML5
12:48:26 <ArtB> MC: I recommend reviewing the HTML5 model to see it covers the requirements you are thinking about
12:48:41 <ArtB> ... postMessage
12:50:22 <ArtB> CV: we have been looking at the Open Ajax model
12:50:31 <ArtB> ... they are using a pub/sub model
12:50:39 <ArtB> ... and it seems like a good starting point
12:51:07 <ArtB> MC: please do some analysis and let us know what you learned 
12:54:01 <ArtB> AB: to summarize, there is support for focusing on core functionality
12:54:10 <ArtB> ... this could mean three separate docs:
12:54:21 <ArtB> ... 1. Zip, config, Procssing model
12:54:32 <ArtB> ... 2. basic APIs and events
12:54:37 <ArtB> ... 3. Signature
12:56:23 <ArtB> AB: we could then add other specs as needed
12:57:24 <ArtB> AB: is this what we want to do?
12:57:38 <ArtB> BS: this is more docs. Is this OK with you Marcos?
12:57:50 <ArtB> MC: I would Arve to take the APIs and Events
12:58:18 <ArtB> ABe: that will be difficult for me to meet by the April 15 deadline
12:59:26 <ArtB> MC: I can take the signauture part and ask TLR for some help
12:59:37 <ArtB> AB: I can help of the signature part too
13:00:41 <ArtB> AB: regarding doc #2, for April 15 we could just cut-and-paste what we have now
13:01:02 <marcos_> zakim, who is making noise?
13:01:13 <Zakim> marcos_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +44.791.999.aabb (17%), marcos_ (10%), Arve (9%)
13:01:19 <ArtB> AB: is splitting the doc into these 3 parts doable by April 15?
13:01:22 <ArtB> MC: yes
13:01:29 <arve> Looking at section 7, we have mostly complete text
13:01:31 <marcos_> zakim, mute me
13:01:31 <Zakim> marcos_ should now be muted
13:01:42 <marcos_> zakim, unmute me
13:01:42 <Zakim> marcos_ should no longer be muted
13:01:44 <arve> zakim, mute me
13:01:44 <Zakim> Arve should now be muted
13:01:50 <ArtB> AB: proposals to split the current doc into three parts as described above
13:01:52 <arve> zakim, unmute me
13:01:52 <Zakim> Arve should no longer be muted
13:01:57 <ArtB> AB: any objections?
13:01:59 <ArtB> [none]
13:02:01 <arve> no
13:02:05 <marcos_> zakim, mute 44.791.999.aabb
13:02:06 <Zakim> sorry, marcos_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to 44.791.999.aabb
13:02:15 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: the Widgets 1.0 spec will be split into three separate specs
13:02:20 <marcos_> zakim, mute +44.791.999.aabb
13:02:24 <Zakim> +44.791.999.aabb should now be muted
13:02:30 <marcos_> :)
13:03:07 <ArtB> AB: anything else for today?
13:03:15 <marcos_> zakim, unmute +44.791.999.aabb
13:03:15 <Zakim> +44.791.999.aabb should no longer be muted
13:03:17 <marcos_> zakim, mute +44.791.999.aabb
13:03:17 <Zakim> +44.791.999.aabb should now be muted
13:03:22 <marcos_> zakim, unmute +44.791.999.aabb
13:03:22 <Zakim> +44.791.999.aabb should no longer be muted
13:03:24 <Zakim> -Benoit
13:03:28 <ArtB> AB: next week will start with section 4.1
13:03:28 <Zakim> - +39.011.228.aaaa
13:03:30 <Zakim> -Arve
13:03:30 <claudio> quit
13:03:32 <Zakim> - +44.791.999.aabb
13:03:33 <ArtB> AB: meeting adjourned
13:03:50 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:04:02 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:04:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-minutes.html ArtB
13:04:43 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
13:05:17 <ArtB> zakim, bye
13:05:17 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Art_Barstow, +39.011.228.aaaa, +44.791.999.aabb, marcos_, Benoit, +47.66.99.aacc, Arve
13:05:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #waf
13:06:19 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
13:06:19 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-actions.rdf :
13:06:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008 [1]
13:06:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-irc#T12-13-38
13:06:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Barstow submit the slides to the WG before presenting them at WWW2008 [2]
13:06:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/06-waf-irc#T12-13-55