IRC log of er on 2008-03-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:28:33 [RRSAgent]

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13:28:33 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/05-er-irc

13:28:43 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #er

13:28:55 [shadi]

zakim, this will be ert

13:28:55 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

13:29:02 [shadi]

meeting: ERT WG

13:29:08 [shadi]

chair: Shadi

13:29:39 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Mar/0006.html

13:30:21 [shadi]

agenda+ Comments on WCAG 2.0 by CarlosI

13:30:35 [shadi]

agenda+ Updated "Content-in-RDF" Editor's Draft

13:30:42 [shadi]

Updated "HTTP-in-RDF" Editor's Draft

13:30:48 [shadi]

agenda+ Updated "HTTP-in-RDF" Editor's Draft

13:30:50 [JohannesK]

JohannesK has joined #er

13:31:02 [shadi]

agenda+ RDFa Last Call Working Draft

13:31:17 [shadi]

agenda+ Next meeting

13:31:23 [shadi]

zakim, code?

13:31:23 [Zakim]

the conference code is 3794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), shadi

13:31:33 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has now started

13:31:40 [Zakim]

+CarlosV

13:31:50 [JohannesK]

Zakim, CarlosV is really JohannesK

13:31:50 [Zakim]

+JohannesK; got it

13:32:12 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

13:32:23 [shadi]

zakim, ipcaller is really Shadi

13:32:23 [Zakim]

+Shadi; got it

13:35:10 [carlosI]

carlosI has joined #er

13:37:13 [Zakim]

+??P14

13:37:32 [shadi]

zakim, ? is really CarlosI

13:37:32 [Zakim]

+CarlosI; got it

13:37:40 [shadi]

regrets: CarlosV

13:37:54 [shadi]

agenda?

13:39:18 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

13:39:18 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Comments on WCAG 2.0 by CarlosI" taken up [from shadi]

13:39:49 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-20071218/

13:40:31 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-20071218/Overview-diff.html

13:40:48 [shadi]

http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/issuereports/responses/issue_disposition_report20071211.php

13:42:35 [shadi]

SAZ: latest WCAG 2.0 Editors Draft available, also a diff version comparing changes to last draft

13:42:52 [shadi]

...also a disposition of their draft responses to the comments received so far

13:43:12 [shadi]

...we should look at the draft responses and check if we may have any follow-up

13:44:58 [shadi]

JK: how do we record test results of Web pages that could be in different states

13:45:29 [shadi]

...for example CarlosI mentioned Ajax and other Web applications

13:45:38 [shadi]

...or in my opinion framesets too

13:46:06 [shadi]

...need to means to record the state of the Web page

13:46:19 [shadi]

...not part of the EARL language itself

13:46:26 [shadi]

...don't see a way to do that

13:48:35 [shadi]

SAZ: framesets a little different scenario from web applications

13:49:01 [shadi]

...usually information is fetched from the server and could be addressed by HTTP-in-RDF

13:49:42 [shadi]

JK: definition of web page in WCAG 2.0 is restricted to non-embedded elements

13:50:17 [shadi]

...so combinations of resources, like in a frameset, would not be considered a single web page

13:53:16 [shadi]

[a non-embedded resource obtained from a single URI using HTTP plus any other resources that are used in the rendering or intended to be rendered together with it by a user agent]

13:54:13 [shadi]

JK: content of the individual resources could change

13:54:44 [shadi]

s/would not be considered/would be considered

13:55:56 [shadi]

CI: typically a frameset has a single content frame

13:56:58 [shadi]

...don't usually need to cover all combinations of all pages on a web site

13:58:11 [shadi]

JK: agree, but you are interpreting the WCAG WG

13:59:09 [shadi]

...the definition does not address the current *state* of the Web page

13:59:31 [shadi]

...we may not have a mean to record the *state* of a frameset

14:05:28 [shadi]

SAZ: a frameset would cause a sequence of HTTP requests to obtain a combination of [HTML] resources, that together form a "Web Page"

14:05:48 [shadi]

...wouldn't HTTP-in-RDF give you the necessary information?

14:06:35 [shadi]

JK: it would tell you which resources were loaded into the frameset, but would not tell you in which frameset it was loaded

14:07:01 [shadi]

...this could make a difference towards the result of the test

14:07:58 [shadi]

...there used to be xframes extension, not sure if that could be useful

14:09:53 [shadi]

SAZ: seems that we record the interaction with the server using HTTP-in-RDF

14:10:11 [shadi]

...but we don't record the interaction with the user in the browser

14:10:33 [shadi]

...something to identify what action caused an HTTP request or other event

14:10:50 [shadi]

...can we model this? do we want to do this at the current time?

14:11:23 [shadi]

CI: also need to record the context of the frames or web application at the given time

14:12:07 [shadi]

...but not necessary on the EARL (results layer)

14:12:28 [shadi]

JK: agree, don't need the user interaction at the results layer

14:12:39 [shadi]

...but the current state

14:14:29 [shadi]

SAZ: for web applications, would DOM content in the "Content-in-RDF" be sufficient (forgetting frames for now)

14:14:53 [shadi]

CI: it would be, but we don't have a "DOM-in-RDF" model (just a dump currently)

14:18:07 [shadi]

CI & JK: don't have DOM content class

14:19:13 [shadi]

SAZ: could serialize it as XML and dump it into an XML content class?

14:24:37 [shadi]

http://www.rosettacode.org/w/index.php?title=DOM_XML_Serialization

14:26:03 [shadi]

CI: DOM representations may look different depending on user agent

14:26:41 [shadi]

JK: want to record the elements/nodes that we have, to describe how the document looks like

14:27:46 [shadi]

...for example DOM Level 3 has an interface for serializing documents

14:29:43 [shadi]

...problem is converting back from DOM serialization to its original form

14:30:17 [shadi]

...for example an HTML document may generate issues when using an XML parser

14:37:40 [shadi]

action: JK send brief document and the serialization of it, to demonstrate DOM usage and recording in XML content

14:38:14 [shadi]

action: CI & SAZ look more closely at DOM serialization for recording the state of Web applications

14:41:04 [Zakim]

-Shadi

14:41:07 [Zakim]

-JohannesK

14:41:30 [shadi_off]

zakim, drop carlosi

14:41:30 [Zakim]

CarlosI is being disconnected

14:41:31 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM has ended

14:41:33 [Zakim]

Attendees were JohannesK, Shadi, CarlosI

14:41:36 [shadi_off]

zakim, bye

14:41:36 [Zakim]

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