14:56:09 RRSAgent has joined #swd 14:56:09 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc 14:56:20 rrsagent, bookmark 14:56:20 See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T14-56-20 14:56:29 zakim, this will be swd 14:56:29 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, edsu 14:56:54 yeah, i was trying to get set up early since i have a meeting till 11 EST :) 15:04:01 Simone has joined #swd 15:05:13 edsu, I hope the problem is the timezones and time chahge :) 15:33:59 Ralph has joined #swd 15:35:01 rrsagent, please make record public 15:35:25 zakim, this will be swd 15:35:25 ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes 15:52:41 SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started 15:52:48 +[LC] 15:53:00 zakim, LC is me 15:53:00 +edsu; got it 15:53:23 Meeting: SWD WG 15:53:26 Chair: Guus 15:53:47 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0101.html 15:54:24 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-swd-minutes.html 15:55:45 Regrets: Sean, Antoine, Quentin 15:56:49 Scribe: Ed 15:56:56 Scribenick: edsu 15:58:18 +??P13 15:58:22 dlrubin has joined #swd 15:58:27 vit has joined #SWD 15:59:49 Elisa has joined #swd 16:00:01 Clay has joined #swd 16:00:25 berrueta has joined #swd 16:00:33 Guus has joined #swd 16:00:34 aliman has joined #swd 16:00:48 No one seems to be on the phone... 16:01:23 +Rodrigo 16:01:28 zakim, Rodrigo is me 16:01:28 +berrueta; got it 16:01:36 +Guus_Schreiber 16:01:46 +Ralph 16:01:48 +Alistair 16:01:52 +[LC] 16:01:55 zakim, LC is Clay 16:01:58 +??P42 16:02:06 +Clay; got it 16:02:07 Zakim, ??P42 is me 16:02:26 +Simone; got it 16:02:50 +??P2 16:02:54 zakim, who is here? 16:02:58 On the phone I see edsu, ??P13, berrueta, Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, Alistair, Clay, Simone, ??P2 16:03:02 On IRC I see aliman, Guus, berrueta, Clay, Elisa, vit, dlrubin, Ralph, Simone, RRSAgent, Zakim, edsu 16:03:16 zakim, ??P2 is me 16:03:23 +vit; got it 16:03:45 zakim, ??P13 is Daniel 16:03:47 +Daniel; got it 16:04:25 marghe has joined #swd 16:04:34 Topic: Admin 16:05:08 benadida has joined #swd 16:05:11 RESOLVED to accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-swd-minutes.html 16:05:23 + +39.065.705.aaaa 16:05:41 Zakim, +39.065.705.aaaa is Marghe 16:05:53 +Marghe; got it 16:06:07 + +1.617.395.aabb 16:06:12 zakim, I am aabb 16:06:19 +benadida; got it 16:06:49 Guus: briefly discuss Face-to-face meeting, day and a half, in Amsterdam? 16:07:07 Guus: have we made update of charter schedule? 16:07:12 Ralph: we have not yet 16:07:34 Ralph: I assume we will ask for charter extension 16:07:43 Guus: charter expires on 1st of April? 16:07:48 Ralph: first or last 16:07:55 Ralph: April 30 16:08:37 Guus: we could have a proposed recommendation within the charter period 16:08:43 (for RDFa) 16:08:49 ... after the charter period i expect minimal work on rdfa 16:09:06 benadida: yes, i think that's a fair statement 16:09:52 Guus: is it realistic to assume by the end of april we will have an implementation report ready? 16:10:16 benadida: yes, we have 2 priorities: one is IR and the other is updating the rdfa Primer 16:11:06 Guus: the purpose of the recipes is to publish as a Note 16:11:23 Guus: diego, what is a realistic time for the recipes publication? 16:12:02 deigo: in a few weeks we can have a new draft, i don't know what the schedule is for publishing a w3c note, we need 2 or 3 weeks to make changes in the current draft 16:12:08 s/deigo/diego/ 16:12:16 Guus: realistic to shoot for 1st of May? 16:12:39 diego: new draft by the end of march 16:12:59 Ralph: note basically means we don't plan on publishing another version 16:13:11 diego: no problem to have a note by 1st of May then 16:13:19 Topic: Vocabulary Management 16:13:39 s/Topic: Vocabulary Management// 16:13:51 [I think we're still on the Schedule topic] 16:13:55 +Elisa_Kendall 16:14:00 vit: we are requesting feedback on the Vocabulary Management doc 16:14:26 ... i cannot estimate how long it will take at this point 16:15:36 Elisa: we have a decent editors draft, and needs some polish, waiting on input from a couple of people, i think we can publish by the second week of march for internal review 16:15:49 ... beyhond that i don't know what it takes to get to a working draft 16:16:18 Guus: usually publish a working draft first, and then go for note status -- which is the end point 16:16:52 [I see 7 @@TODOs in the -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/Vocab/principles-20080204 4-Feb Vocab Management editors' draft ] 16:16:54 ... if we can have a document for review in march, we can publish as working draft by end of march, and then take month of april to get feedback on it, and then publish as note in the beginning of may 16:17:49 Elisa: i have asked for comments from Tom, Alistair and Ralph for specific comments and feedback, if I can get that I think we're at a point where it could be a working draft 16:18:25 Guus: having draft available for internal review shouldn't be later than middle of march 16:18:51 Elisa: anyone who wants to take a look now is more than welcome 16:19:32 Guus: would like to shoot for first of June as last call for SKOS documents 16:19:36 q+ 16:19:45 ... is that a reasonable schedule? 16:20:03 regrets+ Jon, Michael, Tom 16:20:05 ack aliman 16:20:34 aliman: is it reasonable to think we could publish another draft? 16:21:08 ... i think first of june as last call for working draft, would leave us two months, i think that's a good target 16:21:25 Guus: we can extend a bit, but not too much 16:21:49 ... my proposal will be to ask for extension to do skos work to 1st of July, and then normal schedule to rec 16:22:01 sounds ok to me 16:22:04 ... will include bring rdfa from proposed rec to rec 16:22:36 Ralph: i can't judge how much the technical work will be, but it sounds like a plausible proposal to me 16:23:02 ... i'm comfortable asking for the extension 16:23:14 ... focusing on last remaining big deliverable 16:25:03 Action: Chairs to draft charter extension proposal for SKOS until July 1st 16:25:23 Topic: RDFa 16:25:49 Ben++ for updating RDFa issue tracker quickly :) 16:26:02 benadida: starting to get feedback, going to keep track of comments in tracker, to make a nice review 16:26:39 ... i really want to thank reviewers 16:26:51 Ralph: we should make a schedule for the Primer 16:26:57 benadida: yes 16:27:05 Topic: SKOS 16:27:16 Guus: primer has been published 16:27:58 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0100.html Announcment text for Request for Comments: SKOS Primer [Antoine 2008-02-21] 16:28:03 ACTION: Ralph to publish Feb 12th version of SKOS primer as working draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/12-swd-minutes.html#action05] 16:28:07 --done 16:28:21 Guus: how are we doing w/ comments to SKOS reference? 16:28:42 aliman: haven't had a chance to review comments in the last week, I have set up a page to capture all the comments 16:29:32 ACTION: Sean to propose a way to handle deprecated properties (updating RDF schema) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/12-swd-minutes.html#action06] 16:29:35 --continues 16:29:47 CTION: Alistair to propose an approach to clarify which aspects of the extension module should be in scope for the candidate recommendation package. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09] 16:29:51 --continues 16:29:59 ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of rdfs isDefinedBy fits the reasoning that was made in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0141.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10] 16:30:00 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosReference20080125 comments on SKOS reference 16:30:04 --continues 16:30:46 aliman: i think the text on concept schemes and owl ontologies looks ok 16:30:55 Guus: i think we need to go on record 16:31:04 ACTION: Alistair and Guus to check the text in the primer on relationship between Concept Schemes and OWL Ontologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/29-swd-minutes.html#action13] 16:31:08 --continues 16:31:27 ACTION: Antoine to close ISSUE 54 in tracker with links to resolution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-swd-minutes.html#action15] 16:31:31 --done 16:31:42 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0098.html 16:31:52 Guus: is it still open? 16:32:05 Ralph: closed now 16:32:38 Guus: issue 40, concept coordination? 16:32:50 aliman: will be working on that in the next couple of weeks 16:32:53 ACTION: Alistair to make a proposal for Issue 40 (Concept Coordination) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/29-swd-minutes.html#action09] 16:32:57 --continues 16:33:14 Guus: issues 71 and 74 16:33:32 aliman: we opened them last week, and Antoine has sent emails making proposals for each 16:33:57 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0095.html 16:34:31 Guus: why don't we mention skos:exactMatch? 16:35:03 aliman: there isn't a parallel 16:35:47 aliman: if you look at OWL, it does not have any duplicate properties 16:36:13 ... if we are going to have parallel vocabularies we should detail why we need it 16:38:12 -Simone 16:38:38 ... i tried to restate Antoine's position, it seems like there are lots of general statements, and that the proposal depends on people doing things a particular way, there are more questions to answer for why we need the two types of relationships 16:39:10 ... in practice you have to manage your graphs, and their provenance, they could be redundant or misleading 16:39:26 Guus: is there a logical semantic relationship between them? 16:39:31 aliman: like equivalent properties? 16:39:40 Guus: equivalent would be strange 16:39:52 aliman: we need to clarify usage conventions 16:41:12 Guus: asking if broaderMatch as a subproperty of broader might make sense 16:41:20 q+ 16:41:21 [I like Guus' proposal skos:broadMatch rdfs:subPropertyOf skos:broader 16:42:06 Simone has joined #swd 16:42:10 marghe: i think broadMatch between concepts that belong to different schemes is ok, to keep them separate 16:42:43 ... there is a kind of semantic relation between the parallel vocabularies, somehow they mean the same things 16:43:00 Guus: i'm going to make an add on proposal to Antoine's proposal 16:43:34 +??P0 16:43:43 Zakim, ?P0 is me 16:43:43 sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named '?P0' 16:43:47 marghe: i'm not sure if they are subproperties 16:43:51 Zakim, ??P0 is me 16:43:51 +Simone; got it 16:44:21 Guus: defining something as subPropertyOf does not exclude the case that the two properties have the same extension 16:44:31 marghe: if broaderMatch is a subproperty of broader it's a specialization, but i'm not sure we are specializing 16:45:05 Guus: seems like an issue that would be good for the list 16:45:44 aliman: if your email could include usage conventions i think that would help 16:45:48 q- 16:46:23 ACTION Guus to add Antoine's proposal for issue 71, a proposal for semantics of match relations and standard relations 16:46:34 s/to add/to add to/ 16:47:16 s/semantics of/semantic relations between/ 16:48:11 Guus: aliman how are we doing with your issue priorities list, do we need to take actions 16:48:26 aliman: we openened 71 and 74, it would be good if we could open a couple more 16:49:44 ... if we could open indexing relation issues, and notations that might be a good thing to do at this stage 16:50:01 Guus: for me the thorniest issue is ISSUE-37, SkosSpecialization 16:50:07 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/37 issue 37 16:50:17 aliman: the easy way out of that would be to consider that out of scope 16:50:48 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0096.html "[SKOS] Issues Review" [Alistair 2008-02-21] 16:51:10 Guus: i propose we open ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-67 16:51:22 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/67 issue 67; StatingFormalDefinitions 16:51:26 ... i will be happy to be owner of 37, and alistair could you own 67? 16:51:41 aliman: could i propose we open indexingrelationship ? 16:51:53 Guus: needs someone to issue a proposal 16:51:59 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/48 issue 48; IndexingRelationship 16:52:27 ... if it doesn't do any particular harm, we could leave it in, it's kind of a weird animal in the skos language, but i don't think it does any harm 16:52:35 ... happy to leave in a raised state 16:52:40 ... issue-48 16:52:46 s/leave/leave issue 48/ 16:53:14 Guus: what about SKOS-OWL patterns? 16:53:43 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/80 issue 80; SKOS-OWL-Patterns 16:54:10 Guus: lets leave things for the moment, and review next week 16:54:56 Guus: would it be good to have a mtg in the beginning of may to talk about remaining issues 16:55:23 ... a day and a 1/2 to get things ready for last call draft 16:55:48 ... May 8-9 (Thurs, Fri) 16:55:57 Ralph: i have conflict May 7-9 16:55:57 I have a conflict for 7-9 May 16:56:16 marghe: if it is may 5 i can also join 16:56:28 I've conflict for 6 and 8 May 16:56:30 Ralph: i could join first 1/2 of each day remotely 16:56:47 Guus: critical for document editors to be there 16:56:52 s/remotely/remotely if the meeting is in Amsterdam 16:56:56 aliman: free for me at the moment 16:57:09 edsu: i am free 16:57:17 dlrubin: need to look at calendar 16:57:44 Guus: sean and antoine are not here ... 16:57:51 ... will come back to this next week 16:57:58 Ralph: i could do the following week 16:58:25 Topic: Recipes 16:59:07 Ralph: i think we've take care of resolution to issue-16, but wordnet implementation is waiting on a database decision at w3c 16:59:12 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] 16:59:15 --continues 16:59:26 ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] 16:59:30 --continues 16:59:38 Topic: Vocabulary Management 16:59:45 Elisa: cleaning up validator bugs 17:00:02 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/Vocab/principles-20080204 17:00:12 Guus: meeting adjourned 17:00:12 -Daniel 17:00:14 -Clay 17:00:16 -Elisa_Kendall 17:00:18 -Marghe 17:00:22 -berrueta 17:00:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-minutes.html Ralph 17:00:24 Ralph: can you hang on for a sec? 17:00:47 -Guus_Schreiber 17:02:36 zakim, list attendees 17:02:36 As of this point the attendees have been edsu, berrueta, Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, Alistair, Clay, Simone, vit, Daniel, Marghe, +1.617.395.aabb, benadida, Elisa_Kendall 17:02:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-minutes.html Ralph 17:03:55 -Ralph 17:03:56 -edsu 17:05:48 -Alistair 17:05:50 -vit 17:05:52 -benadida 17:05:54 -Simone 17:05:58 SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended 17:05:59 Attendees were edsu, berrueta, Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, Alistair, Clay, Simone, vit, Daniel, Marghe, +1.617.395.aabb, benadida, Elisa_Kendall 17:07:45 zakim, bye 17:07:45 Zakim has left #swd 17:27:25 marghe has left #swd 17:32:38 marghe has joined #swd 17:32:42 help 17:32:45 zakim, help 17:34:12 marghe has left #swd 18:53:37 rrsagent, bye 18:53:37 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-actions.rdf : 18:53:37 ACTION: Chairs to draft charter extension proposal for SKOS until July 1st [1] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-25-03 18:53:37 ACTION: Ralph to publish Feb 12th version of SKOS primer as working draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/12-swd-minutes.html#action05] [2] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-28-03 18:53:37 ACTION: Sean to propose a way to handle deprecated properties (updating RDF schema) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/12-swd-minutes.html#action06] [3] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-29-32 18:53:37 ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of rdfs isDefinedBy fits the reasoning that was made in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0141.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10] [4] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-29-59 18:53:37 ACTION: Alistair and Guus to check the text in the primer on relationship between Concept Schemes and OWL Ontologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/29-swd-minutes.html#action13] [5] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-31-04 18:53:37 ACTION: Antoine to close ISSUE 54 in tracker with links to resolution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-swd-minutes.html#action15] [6] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-31-27 18:53:37 ACTION: Alistair to make a proposal for Issue 40 (Concept Coordination) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/29-swd-minutes.html#action09] [7] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-32-53 18:53:37 ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [8] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-59-12 18:53:37 ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] [9] 18:53:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-59-26